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PoliGAF 2015-2016 |OT3| If someone named PhoenixDark leaves your party, call the cops

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D

Diablos

Member
adam387 said:
It's interesting you all bring that up.

My cousin and I get along great. She's like 9 or 10 years older than me, but we both have a love for politics and certain TV shows. We usually email each other a few times a week. Anyway, my mom was talking to her mom last night and mentioned that we supported Hillary. (We're all Democrats on that side of the family). I knew my cousin liked Bernie by her Facebook posts, so I just kinda didn't acknowledge her support. So, I got an email this morning from her letting me know how disappointed she was in me and in my (and I quote) "ignorance." She proceeded to explain to me why I was hurting my community (of which she is definitely not a part, she's straight as an arrow but definitely supportive of LGBT people, especially since our other aunt's son is transitioning). She, literally, assumed I was too stupid to understand the candidate's positions on LGBT issues. Like...I'm actually shocked by this. It wasn't a nice email, and she managed to accuse me of wanting to throw trans issues under the bus at the expense of queer issues.

I mean, I am a moderately intelligent person. I don't think that I need things explained to me. I can draw my own conclusions. I'm probably guilty of trying to over explain a position to people, but this is really something else. At the very least, it made me aware of checking my privilege and my position when I attempt to engage in a community that isn't my own.
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This is absurd. She's calling you ignorant? Time for her to look in the mirror. Too many Bernie voters have such an obsession with purity and they can be so god damn confrontational for all the wrong reasons and, yes, ignorant. They're like evangelists without religion in their tenacity to constantly stay so idealistic and pure in their quest for the ultimate political and socioeconomic revolution. It's sad.

Many of these people do not have a grasp on reality and their inability to see the broader picture is as pathetic as it is terrifying. I guess they'd rather have a Republican in the WH if Bernie can't get there.

Plinko said:
Rand out is a bad thing. He generally provided a reasonable answer onstage during debates and provided a stark contrast to the crazy stuff said by other candidates, making them look even worse.
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Eh. No one talked about him the next day. He said nothing that resonated with voters or the media long term.
 
C

CCS

Banned
Diablos said:
This is absurd. She's calling you ignorant? Time for her to look in the mirror. Too many Bernie voters have such an obsession with purity and they can be so god damn confrontational for all the wrong reasons and, yes, ignorant.

Many of these people do not have a grasp on reality and their inability to see the broader picture is as sad as it is terrifying. I guess they'd rather have a Republican in the WH if Bernie can't get there.
Click to expand...

It is a worrying trend.

Also, I've never noticed your tag before. It is incredible.
 
D

Diablos

Member
CCS said:
It is a worrying trend.

Also, I've never noticed your tag before. It is incredible.
Click to expand...
It's not just a trend now. I think the lines have been drawn. The question is if Bernue supporters will be able to grow up and realize any Dem is better than a Republican in the WH. Meaning will they vote for Hillary if they have to? I know I'd vote for Bernie, even if he is Mondale II.
 
C

CCS

Banned
Diablos said:
It's not just a trend now. I think the lines have been drawn. The question is if Bernue supporters will be able to grow up and realize any Dem is better than a Republican in the WH. Meaning will they vote for Hillary if they have to? I know I'd vote for Bernie, even if he is Mondale II.
Click to expand...

I hope so, I think that those who will refuse to vote for Hillary are a very vocal but very small minority.
 
P

Plinko

Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
Wow, Trump now accused Cruz of blatant fraud in Iowa. He is going all in.

Diablos said:
Eh. No one talked about him the next day. He said nothing that resonated with voters or the media long term.
Click to expand...

And yet this has nothing to do with what I was referencing in my post.

People who watched the debate (many of whom will vote in the general election) saw the stark contrast. That's what matters.
 
U

User 406

Banned
FloydtheFathead said:
I.. hate the things you choose to be. There are excellent pizza shops in Ohio Adam.. I can't help it if you go to shitty ones.

You should go and find good ones.
Click to expand...

Do you have any Cleveland area recommendations? Because this is the most quality pizza impoverished town I've ever lived in. And I grew up in Tulsa. The pizza I make is better than all of the local joints I've tried.

Oh, and politics, yeah, bye Rand, wish Kasich would have dropped before you. Seriously guys, stop hoping for Kasich to start beating Rubio. You don't know what you're asking for.
 
F

Fuchsdh

Member
adam387 said:
Of course, as a Hillbot, I'm worried about other things with my candidate. I just think that al ot of the posts I've seen on here, Kos and other places are just focusing on the "Oh he got so close, so that's good enough" thing. It's not good enough. Not at all.

And I love how everoyne else is talking about metaphysical concepts like the self, and we're here being all wonky in discussing political narratives. :D
Click to expand...

You just have to learn to love the horse race narratives as much as the media does. Otherwise you're not making it out of election season without a drinking problem.
 
D

disastermouse

Banned
CCS said:
I hope so, I think that those who will refuse to vote for Hillary are a very vocal but very small minority.
Click to expand...
And I hope that it's exactly the opposite and that liberals finally say, "No, Hillary Clinton is a bridge too far." I don't care if they refuse to vote for her and are vocal about it or if they quietly refuse to show up for her, as long as her loss is total and so humiliating that she's no longer a national political figure.
 
P

Poodlestrike

Banned
disastermouse said:
And I hope that it's exactly the opposite and that liberals finally say, "No, Hillary Clinton is a bridge too far." I don't care if they refuse to vote for her and are vocal about it or if they quietly refuse to show up for her, as long as her loss is total and so humiliating that she's no longer a national political figure.
Click to expand...

Somewhere along the line, this got personal for you, didn't it?
 
D

Diablos

Member
Plinko said:
And yet this has nothing to do with what I was referencing in my post.

People who watched the debate (many of whom will vote in the general election) saw the stark contrast. That's what matters.
Click to expand...
It doesn't? Whatever kind of "stark contrast" he put on display, it didn't seem to make a long term impact on how viewers feel about the frontrunners. You're giving him too much credit.
 
C

CCS

Banned
disastermouse said:
And I hope that it's exactly the opposite and that liberals finally say, "No, Hillary Clinton is a bridge too far." I don't care if they refuse to vote for her and are vocal about it or if they quietly refuse to show up for her, as long as her loss is total and so humiliating that she's no longer a national political figure.
Click to expand...

I too like to base my political positions on blind hatred for individuals instead of policy.
 
B

Bel Marduk

Banned
adam387 said:
It's interesting you all bring that up.

My cousin and I get along great. She's like 9 or 10 years older than me, but we both have a love for politics and certain TV shows. We usually email each other a few times a week. Anyway, my mom was talking to her mom last night and mentioned that we supported Hillary. (We're all Democrats on that side of the family). I knew my cousin liked Bernie by her Facebook posts, so I just kinda didn't acknowledge her support. So, I got an email this morning from her letting me know how disappointed she was in me and in my (and I quote) "ignorance." She proceeded to explain to me why I was hurting my community (of which she is definitely not a part, she's straight as an arrow but definitely supportive of LGBT people, especially since our other aunt's son is transitioning). She, literally, assumed I was too stupid to understand the candidate's positions on LGBT issues. Like...I'm actually shocked by this. It wasn't a nice email, and she managed to accuse me of wanting to throw trans issues under the bus at the expense of queer issues.

I mean, I am a moderately intelligent person. I don't think that I need things explained to me. I can draw my own conclusions. I'm probably guilty of trying to over explain a position to people, but this is really something else. At the very least, it made me aware of checking my privilege and my position when I attempt to engage in a co,,unity that isn't my own.
Click to expand...

Your cousin sounds pretty overbearing and inconsiderate, however I gotta wonder why people in the LGBT community are overwhelmingly supporting Clinton over Sanders

Sanders has been very very strong on LGBT issues for decades while Clinton only came out in favor of gay marriage recently

As a gay person I feel that it is condescending toward us to work against us for so many years and now come in strongly in favor of gay rights because she needs our votes.

I don't want to be pandered to I want a candidate who supports full LGBT equality as a matter of principle

There are a myriad of issues I'm sure you would consider when picking a candidate to support but on the issue of LGBT rights, Sanders is very clearly the stronger candidate

He's literally been fighting for us for his entire (very long!) career
 
F

Four_Chamber

Member
CCS said:
I too like to base my political positions on blind hatred for individuals instead of policy.
Click to expand...

I finally reached a point where I had to put this guy on Ignore. It's been generally easy to avoid those posts but they add virtually nothing productive to discourse or debate. It almost makes me want to rub it in when Hillary wins but I'm not stooping to that level of politics.
 
F

FloydtheFathead

Member
Sea Manky said:
Do you have any Cleveland area recommendations? Because this is the most quality pizza impoverished town I've ever lived in. And I grew up in Tulsa. The pizza I make is better than all of the local joints I've tried.

Oh, and politics, yeah, bye Rand, wish Kasich would have dropped before you. Seriously guys, stop hoping for Kasich to start beating Rubio. You don't know what you're asking for.
Click to expand...

I would have to talk to my folks.. I was rather young when I lived in Cleveland, they would probably know more than I would. We moved everywhere around Ohio. Best pizza I ever had was in East Liverpool, Ohio.

Granted that is in the Ohio Valley.. And you shouldn't go there unless you can help it.
 
V

Veritigo_X

Member
FloydtheFathead said:
I would have to talk to my folks.. I was rather young when I lived in Cleveland, they would probably know more than I would. We moved everywhere around Ohio. Best pizza I ever had was in East Liverpool, Ohio.

Granted that is in the Ohio Valley.. And you shouldn't go there unless you can help it.
Click to expand...

Pizza in Ohio was always shitty imo, at least in SW Ohio. The only food I miss from there is Skyline Chili. God, that is the best drunk food known to man.
 
S

shinra-bansho

Member
They've both been bad on publicly supporting marriage equality until it became palatable. Clinton was worse, since she operates on a national stage. I don't know why either candidate's supporters are making it out like they're bastions. I can't remember where I read the article but the main crux at the end was: I don't care about the when, what matters is that they are and there's no going back on it.

Also, her campaign focus doesn't come across as blindered from these other inequality issues unrelated to income.

And ultimately your one SC Justice away from overturning Obergefell v. Hodges.

Also, who doesn't like pizza. Weirdo.
 
Y

Y2Kev

TLG Fan Caretaker Est. 2009
I really don't give a crap about how long someone has supported something; I care that they support it now and that they will act on that pretense. If you think someone is lying, fine. That's something else. But do I think Hillary will be a tremendous advocate for lgbt rights if elected? Uh, duh.
 
H

HylianTom

Banned
Y2Kev said:
I really don't give a crap about how long someone has supported something; I care that they support it now and that they will act on that pretense. If you think someone is lying, fine. That's something else. But do I think Hillary will be a tremendous advocate for lgbt rights if elected? Uh, duh.
Click to expand...
I have large sections of my family and friends who didn't come aboard as late as I would've liked them to. But when they changed their minds, it was joyous. I was giddy. In some cases, I teared-up or outright wept.

Hillary and Bill didn't come aboard as quickly as I would've liked. And when Bill signed DOMA, I was disappointed. But gay voters are used to playing a long game. Months before he signed DOMA, we had a court ruling (Romer v Evans) where his two SCOTUS appointees showed their cards on gay rights. From thereon, we knew he'd be appointing allies to our community. Many gay voters knew that, in that environment, success would be most likely come at the courthouse instead of a legislature or ballot box - but we also knew that a liberal judiciary would serve us well while we continued working on changing the culture.

2016 is a completely, radically different environment. I'm still, in a way, in disbelief over where we are. Hillary came on late, but she seems fully aboard (definitely supported by her released emails), and I'm happy to have her aboard. LGBT rights is one box for a candidate to check, and she - here in 2016 - checks that box.
 
U

User 463088

Banned
FloydtheFathead said:
I.. hate the things you choose to be. There are excellent pizza shops in Ohio Adam.. I can't help it if you go to shitty ones.

You should go and find good ones.
Click to expand...

:( Don't judge me. You don't live my life.

But, I'm legit serious. I do not like pizza. Unless it's California Pizza kitchen with the salad on top. That I like.

Diablos said:
This is absurd. She's calling you ignorant? Time for her to look in the mirror. Too many Bernie voters have such an obsession with purity and they can be so god damn confrontational for all the wrong reasons and, yes, ignorant. They're like evangelists without religion in their tenacity to constantly stay so idealistic and pure in their quest for the ultimate political and socioeconomic revolution. It's sad.

Many of these people do not have a grasp on reality and their inability to see the broader picture is as pathetic as it is terrifying. I guess they'd rather have a Republican in the WH if Bernie can't get there.


Eh. No one talked about him the next day. He said nothing that resonated with voters or the media long term.
Click to expand...

She did, ya. I didn't mind that, I was hurt when she assumed I would throw our cousin under the bus. She knows my mom and I have been there 100% while he transitions. I was the first person he came out to. I've always tried to be supportive and do what I can to help. That's what got me more than anything.

Poodlestrike said:
*Another.

Another drinking problem.

In addition to his current drinking problem.
Click to expand...

I'm not as think as you drunk I am.

Bel Marduk said:
Your cousin sounds pretty overbearing and inconsiderate, however I gotta wonder why people in the LGBT community are overwhelmingly supporting Clinton over Sanders

Sanders has been very very strong on LGBT issues for decades while Clinton only came out in favor of gay marriage recently

As a gay person I feel that it is condescending toward us to work against us for so many years and now come in strongly in favor of gay rights because she needs our votes.

I don't want to be pandered to I want a candidate who supports full LGBT equality as a matter of principle

There are a myriad of issues I'm sure you would consider when picking a candidate to support but on the issue of LGBT rights, Sanders is very clearly the stronger candidate

He's literally been fighting for us for his entire (very long!) career
Click to expand...

For me, Bernie is an ally, Hillary is an advocate. I trust her more to understand the complexity of the issues we face as a community more than Bernie. She was the first First Lady to ever march in a pride parade, and she's said she wants to march in one as President too. Her record on queer issues at State was exemplary, at home and abroad. And, like a lot of gay men, I identify with women who get the shit kicked out of them but still stand tall. Marriage is such a small part of the problems we face as a community. Hillary's focus on queer, trans and HIV issues is more robust than Bernie's policies he's put forward. I'm sure he'd be fine on them, should he be President. I think Hillary would be better. :)

Plus, and I know this sounds odd as hell, Hillary reminds me of my dad. I know that sounds totally weird, but they were both progressives who liked to get shit done. I like pragmatism.

LOL Rand, girl. You ain't crazy like your daddy, is you? Gurrrrrl.
 
P

PBY

Banned
02032016_080905_jebunioleader_8col.jpg

Anti-Rubio full page ad in NH's Union Leader from Jeb
 
P

PBY

Banned
B-Dubs said:
Yes! Rip, tear each other apart! Let none survive, drag each other down into the pit, if you can't succeed then no one shall!
Click to expand...

Jeb is so bad at this though.

"While Senator Rubio is a tremendous political talent he is not the best choice to serve as Commander-in-Chief."

Seriously Jeb? You're polling in the gutter, this is the best you have?
 
P

Plinko

Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
PBY said:
02032016_080905_jebunioleader_8col.jpg

Anti-Rubio full page ad in NH's Union Leader from Jeb
Click to expand...

"Hi, average American who hates reading. Read this single-spaced lengthy diatribe."

Terrible, terrible idea.

Also, LOL at that "Cruz stealing Iowa" think taking off. This is amazing.
 
P

PBY

Banned
Plinko said:
Also, LOL at that "Cruz stealing Iowa" think taking off. This is amazing.
Click to expand...

I love it when Trump attacks Cruz on all of this random, out there shit - because no one else gives a fuck about Cruz and the party just lets it slide.
 
R

Rafa=FedKilla

Banned
"I think a lot of times when people question someone else's faith, they are actually questioning their own. And when you take off the goggles of political correctness, you see that Mr. Trump has a lot of Christ like attributes." Ben needs to say this when he endorses him.
 
P

PBY

Banned
Rafa=FedKilla said:
"I think a lot of times when people question someone else's faith, they are actually questioning their own. And when you take off the goggles of political correctness, you see that Mr. Trump has a lot of Christ like attributes." Ben needs to say this when he endorses him.
Click to expand...

"In fact, Trump is Love. Let Trump into your hearts."
 
P

pigeon

Banned
shinra-bansho said:
They've both been bad on publicly supporting marriage equality until it became palatable. Clinton was worse, since she operates on a national stage. I don't know why either candidate's supporters are making it out like they're bastions. I can't remember where I read the article but the main crux at the end was: I don't care about the when, what matters is that they are and there's no going back on it.
Click to expand...

Yeah, in some ways it's fascinating how hard everybody's working to rewrite the history of their support for gay marriage. If we could only elect Democrats who actually genuinely supported gay marriage in the 90s we'd have a problem, because Andrew Sullivan isn't eligible to be president.

This is the most dramatic case I can think of of something going from completely out there fringe to mainstream and accepted in just 20 years or so, and basically everybody's caught out because they weren't expecting it to happen.
 
P

PBY

Banned
pigeon said:
Yeah, in some ways it's fascinating how hard everybody's working to rewrite the history of their support for gay marriage. If we could only elect Democrats who actually genuinely supported gay marriage in the 90s we'd have a problem, because Andrew Sullivan isn't eligible to be president.

This is the most dramatic case I can think of of something going from completely out there fringe to mainstream and accepted in just 20 years or so, and basically everybody's caught out because they weren't expecting it to happen.
Click to expand...

I wonder if this will happen on any other issue...

Guns pls.
 
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