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[KingGondo]

Man, if Jeb had a different last name.. it'd be a whole different ball game.

If Jeb had a different last name he probably wouldn't be in position to run for president in the first place.

 

[ivysaur12]

That Lawrence chart is interesting. Thanks for the link.

It makes sense why this issue would also follow the same trajectory, especially once the issue begins to leave the news cycle in the next few weeks and people stop thinking about it.

The states where gay marriage support has gone up the fastest are states that already have gay marriage. It's one reason why Iowa has catapulted from relatively low on the list of support to relative high, compared to its usual partisan leanings. Reasonably, one would assume that this phenomena would continue in other states that now have marriage equality.

 

[adamsappel]

Read the quote in the op

I was joking. A modern political cartoon would have a little sign on his hat saying "FDR" and there would be a "Democrats" label on the donkey. It would probably have a caption, too.

 

[Poodlestrike]

Kasich served in the House from 1983-2001. He predates the Republican Party's rapid turn to the right starting in the 90's and culminating today. He is of the old moderate Republican mold. Don't forget in that same event Haley and Jindal disagreed with him

In the interests of accuracy, I'll point out that while Kasich lacks a lot of his peers' classist tendencies, he's still very much a social conservative. Anti-abortion and all that.

I was joking. A modern political cartoon would have a little sign on his hat saying "FDR" and there would be a "Democrats" label on the donkey. It would probably have a caption, too.

Yes, because old political cartoons never did that.

 

[Retromelon]

I was joking. A modern political cartoon would have a little sign on his hat saying "FDR" and there would be a "Democrats" label on the donkey. It would probably have a caption, too.

Too subtle for me mang

 

[PhoenixDark]

If jeb had a different name he wouldnt have front runner status bestowed unto him by the establishment
Unless thats what you meant, tom

Sort of like how if Hillary had a different last name she wouldn't be a front runner.

 

[Retromelon]

U rite u rite

 

[HylianTom]

If Jeb had a different last name he probably wouldn't be in position to run for president in the first place.

True, I guess. That whole "born-on-third-base" thing..

 

[BertramCooper]

Sort of like how if Hillary had a different last name she wouldn't be a front runner.

I do think Hillary Rodham would still have ended up being a very successful politician without Bill Clinton. Maybe not a presidential contender, but very prominent and very influential nonetheless.

And to be fair, I think Jeb! Not-Bush probably would have been one, too.

It's folks like W who would have amounted to absolutely nothing without their familial connections.

 

[B-Dubs]

Sort of like how if Hillary had a different last name she wouldn't be a front runner.

She was a senator and the secretary of state. She'd be the front runner, but the lead wouldn't be as large.

 

[Retromelon]

Sort of like how if Hillary had a different last name she wouldn't be a front runner.

Would she have those jobs without the clout of her husband's name? She is cunning and wily enough to have achieved perhaps a senate seat on her own, but not at the time she did it.
Meant to quote bdubs, my bad

 

[B-Dubs]

Would she have those jobs without the clout of her husband's name? She is cunning and wily enough to have achieved perhaps a senate seat on her own, but not at the time she did it.
Meant to quote bdubs, my bad

She likely would have gotten started with her political career earlier had she not married Bill, keep in mind she did lose a number of years while he was president and held other offices.

 

[NeoXChaos]

Sort of like how if Hillary had a different last name she wouldn't be a front runner.

there is nothing wrong with familial connections. Politicians have used them to gain power for generations. Hillary and Jeb are no different. His son Jeb Jr. is no different. He got elected on his own right buy boy did his name help.

 

[Retromelon]

I just have this feeling like with her inauthentic personality, she would not be a front runner, but people really like bill and she has been famous for a long time so everyone knows her.

 

[PhoenixDark]

She was a senator and the secretary of state. She'd be the front runner, but the lead wouldn't be as large.

She wouldn't have been a senator or secretary of state if she wasn't Bill Clinton's wife.

 

[Farmboy]

there is nothing wrong with familial connections. Politicians have used them to gain power for generations.

That second sentence isn't a proper defense for the first. I support Hillary and think she's smart and capable, but I totally get why people are weary of a possible Bush-Clinton rerun.

That said, if we do get that rerun, I hope people notice that we've had double the amount of Bushes to the amount of Clintons, and that no blood relative of Hillary's was ever president.

 

[Aaron Strife]

"Cherry-picking" implies that I selected among multiple polls to find one suited to my preconceptions. Yet, as I explained in the post to which you respond (in the very "led to believe" language you highlighted), my preconception was that support for same-sex marriage was higher than reflected in the AP poll. And I didn't have the other polls--showing that it was--in front of me to choose among.

Next time, try providing information without the par-for-the-liberal-course partisan personal attacks. Then I'll say things like, "That's interesting. Thanks for the link!"

I find it hard to believe you would ever confine a response to anything to six words.

 

[benjipwns]

Your first paragraph is just another example of the "because roads" argument that I've criticized before (see the response to FryeWulff). There's no logical connection between the benefits you've identified and the requirement you would impose.

http://www.consumer.ftc.gov/articles/0181-unordered-merchandise
https://postalinspectors.uspis.gov/...fraudschemes/othertypes/unsolicitedfraud.aspx

imo

ymmv depending on gold fringes of flag in the court

 

[B-Dubs]

That second sentence isn't a proper defense for the first. I support Hillary and think she's smart and capable, but I totally get why people are weary of a possible Bush-Clinton rerun.

That said, if we do get that rerun, I hope people notice that we've had double the amount of Bushes to the amount of Clintons, and that no blood relative of Hillary's was ever president.

Honestly, it's not just politicians who have used family connections to get jobs. Most people use a connection, family or friends, to get jobs. It's shitty but it's how it is, we can't exactly fault our elected officials for doing the exact same thing many normal people do.

 

[Metaphoreus]

I find it hard to believe you would ever confine a response to anything to six words.

Believe it or not, I would.

 

[HylianTom]

Believe it or not, I would.

 

[ErasureAcer]

Also, lol @ that random 10 abortions mention. Unless it was a joke, I've never heard anyone ever mentioning her even having one.

Dude took my comment out of context. I don't think Hillary had 10 abortions(so what if she did?). I'm sure there are plenty of Republicans who believe she did though and that Chelsea is not Bill or Hillary's only child. Didn't you hear about Monica Lewinsky giving birth to little Alan in 1998 somewhere in Kenya? Right, you didn't because of the "liberal" media....so liberal they're not even talking about Bernie's Bodacious Weekend.

 

[Trouble]

It's folks like W who would have amounted to absolutely nothing without their familial connections.

Hey! He would have amounted to a failed businessman just fine on his own, thankyouverymuch.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

Read the quote in the op

He's being sarcastic and making fun of modern political cartoons.

As an aside, I love historical political cartoons. Probably the comics art fan in me.

EDIT: I notice in that old example that the guy has a tie like the Cat in the Hat.

...then I noticed who the cartoon was by!

 

[Aaron Strife]

Believe it or not, I would.

 

[thepotatoman]

1. See Strickland vs Sittenfield.
2. Yes but it looks like Crist has the backing of the party making state reps or state senator bids unnecessary.
3. Fire Debbie Wassermann Schultz if you don't like her leadership

And then come 2022 and on Florida democrats are going to still be complaining that their bench consists of only the penal loser Crist. You're talking about a district that the republican only won by 2 points in wave republican year which will now include St. Petersburg. There's no way democrats will lose no matter who they put up there.

I know Democrat leadership loves to bend over backwards for anyone that has any type of star status while completely ignoring their bench, but that's one of their biggest problems. It doesn't matter if they put up a centrist or a progressive, but they either way they need to put more young and talented faces in these positions in order to have a bench to pick from after they finally learn that everybody hates Crist.

 

[Plinko]

From that same article:


Wow

I love this guy. I use the same thing when I talk to my in-laws. It is amazing to me how many people ignore the connection.

Your first paragraph is just another example of the "because roads" argument that I've criticized before (see the response to FryeWulff). There's no logical connection between the benefits you've identified and the requirement you would impose.

I read your response to him but I really disagree.

If you want to operate a business in the United States and take advantage of federal and state tax breaks, how in the world is there not a connection? The government makes the laws--why should they be exempt? Can a business publicly operate and say, "Well, you know what? Screw it--I'm just going to claim religious objection and sell alcohol to minors/guns without background checks/etc./?" Both of those would be breaking the law and the government gets involved. If those are set laws, don't we have set anti-discrimination laws as well? If we do not, we very well should if a business is going to be taking that money.

I'd argue that businesses shouldn't be considered private if they are taking money from the government that makes the laws.

 

[Plinko]

Edit: DP again. This time I don't know what happened. Think I'll just stop posting today.

 

[PhoenixDark]

@jonkarl: JUST IN: ABC/WP Poll. The Front Runner - @realDonaldTrump

Trump 24
Walker 13
Bush 12
Huck 8
Rubio 7
Paul 6

Poll taken Thu-Sun (1/2)

haha wow. I know it won't last but this is pathetic.

Cruz is the big loser here. Trump has made him irrelevant which is stunning to me. He has the money and grass roots support though...eventually Trump's support will fall to him.

 

[Plinko]

@jonkarl: JUST IN: ABC/WP Poll. The Front Runner - @realDonaldTrump

Trump 24
Walker 13
Bush 12
Huck 8
Rubio 7
Paul 6

Poll taken Thu-Sun (1/2)

haha wow. I know it won't last but this is pathetic.

Cruz is the big loser here. Trump has made him irrelevant which is stunning to me. He has the money and grass roots support though...eventually Trump's support will fall to him.

One thing you missed:

Trump’s support was 28 percent in this survey’s first three nights of polling. While the sample size of registered leaned Republicans on Sunday is quite small, he dropped to the single digits that day.

As I said after it happened, his comments on veterans are going to drop him into the single-digits.

I think Trump's support will actually follow Trump when he runs as an independent. Huckabee/Carson go to Walker. Rubio/Cruz go to Jeb! It's going to be fascinating to watch.

 

[Retromelon]

Maybe the publicans will offer donald some position of power in return for his plege to not run as an independent.
What could they give him that he wont fuck up?

 

[NeoXChaos]

@jonkar:

Hillary 50
Jeb 44

Trump runs as independent
Hillary 46
Jeb 30
Trump 20

In a general election trial heat, Clinton leads Bush, the GOP fundraising leader, by a slight 50-44 percent among registered voters. But with Trump as an independent candidate that goes to 46-30-20 percent, Clinton-Bush-Trump – with Trump drawing support disproportionately from Bush, turning a 6-point Clinton advantage into 16 points.

YES

Clinton retains very broad backing for the Democratic nomination, 63 percent, vs. 14 percent for Bernie Sanders and 12 percent for Joe Biden. With Biden out (he hasn’t announced a candidacy), most of his support goes to Clinton, boosting her to 68 percent.

Excellent News.

A general election match-up between Clinton and Bush is a bit better for her now (50-44 percent, as noted) than in May, 47-44 percent. That relies, in part, on a 19-point advantage for Clinton among moderates. (She has 21 percent support among conservatives; Barack Obama won 17 percent of that group in 2012). Clinton also does 10 points better among women than men (as did Obama) and far better among under-30s (71 percent support) than their elders, especially seniors (40 percent). And she has 78 percent support among nonwhites vs. Bush, compared with 39 percent of whites – margins again similar to Obama’s in 2012.

The Obama Coalition at its work.

 

[HylianTom]

YES



YES

My god, this is like erotic fan-fiction! Please proceed, Donald..

 

[KingGondo]

That'll teach me to talk politics in the office. I was bringing up the newest Trump poll in as apolitical fashion as possible, and someone said "I don't think anyone on welfare should be allowed to vote."

Welp. Back on go the headphones.

 

[Plinko]

That'll teach me to talk politics in the office. I was bringing up the newest Trump poll in as apolitical fashion as possible, and someone said "I don't think anyone on welfare should be allowed to vote."

Welp. Back on go the headphones.

*facepalm*

It is frightening how many people in the country would be up for a law like that.

 

[Black Mamba]

That'll teach me to talk politics in the office. I was bringing up the newest Trump poll in as apolitical fashion as possible, and someone said "I don't think anyone on welfare should be allowed to vote."

Welp. Back on go the headphones.

So no one over 65 (SS + Medicare), homeowners with mortgage (mortgage deduction), food stamps and the like recipients, unemployed, employer insurance deductions, healthcare tax credits, pell grant recipients, and more.

So basically, only high school students who just turned 18 will be able to consistently vote???

I'm okay with this.

 

[sc0la]

So no one over 65 (SS + Medicare), homeowners with mortgage (mortgage deduction), food stamps and the like recipients, unemployed, employer insurance deductions, healthcare tax credits, pell grant recipients, and more.

So basically, only high school students who just turned 18 will be able to consistently vote???

I'm okay with this.

Only if they go to a private school.

 

[Wilsongt]

My god, this is like erotic fan-fiction! Please proceed, Donald..

Calling PD.

 

[KingGondo]

*facepalm*

It is frightening how many people in the country would be up for a law like that.

So no one over 65 (SS + Medicare), homeowners with mortgage (mortgage deduction), food stamps and the like recipients, unemployed, employer insurance deductions, healthcare tax credits, pell grant recipients, and more.

So basically, only high school students who just turned 18 will be able to consistently vote???

I'm okay with this.

He made a fleeting allusion to black people too, at that point it wasn't worth reminding him that most beneficiaries of government programs are caucasian.

 

[FiggyCal]

His poll numbers are going to go up though right? No such thing as bad publicity and all that.

 

[benjipwns]

Hillary had this exact lead at this point in 2007 if you throw out all the other candidates except Chris Dodd. She ignores Bernie at her own peril.

 

[Aaron Strife]

One thing you missed:



As I said after it happened, his comments on veterans are going to drop him into the single-digits.

I think Trump's support will actually follow Trump when he runs as an independent. Huckabee/Carson go to Walker. Rubio/Cruz go to Jeb! It's going to be fascinating to watch.

Could just be noise.

I hope it's just noise.

Pleeeeeeease just be noise.

 

[NeoXChaos]

Was the divide between Obama and Hillary supporters this deep as it is between the Bernie and Hillary supporters? Bernie threads are popping up left and right.

ex:I see corporatism thrown around a lot. Was that an attack on Hillary back in 08' among Obama supporters?

 

[PhoenixDark]

Calling PD.

My Trump fan-fiction doesn't include Donald...

 

[benjipwns]

Was the divide between Obama and Hillary supporters this deep as it is between the Bernie and Hillary supporters? Bernie threads are popping up left and right.

You realize that they had a contested primary almost down to the wire right? And some Hillary supporters considered it stolen?

And the Hillary camp flamed the birther and Reverend Wright flames.

"You're likeable enough."

Also, PUMAs.

Spoiler

"Let’s break down what she really means by a mandate. What’s meant by a mandate is that the government is forcing people to buy health insurance and so she’s suggesting a parent is not going to buy health insurance for themselves if they can afford it. ... I mean, if a mandate was the solution, we can try that to solve homelessness by mandating everybody to buy a house."

 

[benjipwns]

My Trump fan-fiction doesn't include Donald...

Eric huh

 

[NeoXChaos]

You realize that they had a contested primary almost down to the wire right? And some Hillary supporters considered it stolen?

And the Hillary camp flamed the birther and Reverend Wright flames.

"You're likeable enough."

Also, PUMAs.

Spoiler

"Let’s break down what she really means by a mandate. What’s meant by a mandate is that the government is forcing people to buy health insurance and so she’s suggesting a parent is not going to buy health insurance for themselves if they can afford it. ... I mean, if a mandate was the solution, we can try that to solve homelessness by mandating everybody to buy a house."

I guess it will get worse before it gets better but that is the nature of a primary. oh well

 

[benjipwns]

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_...n_how_much_they_despised_hillary_clinton.html

As a presidential candidate, says one political veteran, Hillary Clinton does not offer the country a “fresh start.” “For all of her advantages, she is not a healing figure,” he continues. “The more she tries to moderate her image … the more she compounds her exposure as an opportunist. And after two decades of the Bush-Clinton saga, making herself the candidate of the future could be a challenge.”

...

One simply cannot overstate how much ill will there was between the two camps in 2007 and 2008—that historic, down-to-the-wire primary standoff was based not in policy contrasts (good luck recalling the differences in their health plans) but in a deeply personal clash about the meaning and methods of progressive politics. “Triangulating and poll-driven positions because we’re worried about what Mitt or Rudy might say about us just won’t do,” Obama said in his breakout speech in Des Moines in November 2007. “This party … has always made the biggest difference in the lives of the American people when we led, not by polls, but by principle; not by calculation, but by conviction; when we summoned the entire nation to a common purpose—a higher purpose.”

Clinton fired back sarcastically three months later: “Now, I could stand up here and say, ‘Let’s just get everybody together. Let’s get unified. The skies will open, the light will come down, celestial choirs will be singing, and everyone will know we should do the right thing and the world will be perfect.’ ”

...

He casts in distinctly unflattering terms Clinton’s turn to a more aggressive tone once it became clear how much trouble she was in, calling her “downright gleeful” about attacking Obama and describing “the ardor with which she bared her teeth,” all of which “validated our critique that she was a reflection of scorched-earth Washington politics rather than an answer to it.” He singles out for opprobrium Clinton’s clumsy suggestion that Bobby Kennedy’s assassination late in the 1968 primaries was proof that anything could happen and that she should therefore stay in the race until the bitter end—an “inexcusable” and “thoughtless” comment that Axelrod says “enraged” him.

And he reminds readers of Bill Clinton’s provocative efforts to rally white voters around his wife in the South Carolina primary, which he says set off another senior Obama adviser, Alabama native Robert Gibbs: “Gibbs was convinced that Bill Clinton was trying to tap into the ugly impulses in southern politics that he had done so much to allay during his political career. ‘This guy had risen above the Old South,’ Robert said, ‘Now their backs are to the wall, and look at what they’re doing. Campaigning right out of the Lee Atwater handbook!’ ” Axelrod even gets in a small dig once his narrative turns to the general election, speculating that Hillary was unwilling to speak out against Sarah Palin after the GOP vice presidential nominee gave her a shoutout in her introductory speech because she was “perhaps flattered by Palin’s tribute.”

http://www.buzzfeed.com/rubycramer/obama-supporters-dont-hate-hillary-clinton-anymore#.wnzyMZlG

In 2008, to many in her own party, Hillary Clinton was “more of the same”; she was a walking reminder of the “failed politics of the past,” of the “same old Washington politics”; she was untrustworthy, she was divisive, she was maybe even racist; she was, according to Barack Obama’s campaign advisor Samantha Power, a “monster” with no qualms about “stooping to anything”; and for a few days of fever-pitch cable news segments, after Clinton fumbled a reference to Bobby Kennedy’s mid-campaign assassination 40 years earlier, she was even a conspirator, hopeful her opponent might meet the RFK fate and clear the way for her victory in the hard-fought Democratic primary.

...

Both campaigns went negative in part from the beginning; in Iowa, during the first caucus of the primary season, Clinton balked at Obama’s slogan, arguing that “‘change’ is just a word,” and Obama cast Clinton’s campaign as calculating and “poll-driven.”
But the attacks against the former First Lady had a way of sticking.

As early as January, Bill Clinton got his wife into hot water for a remark he made about the Obama “fairy tale,” which former Clinton advisor Donna Brazile famously evoked as racist; and as race became an increasingly pivotal issue on the trail, the suggestion hung like a specter over Clinton’s campaign until the end. Later in the primary, a March 2008 survey by Gallup found Clinton was rated last behind Obama and Republican nominee John McCain as a candidate who is “honest and trustworthy,” who shares the “values” of Americans, and whom voters “would be proud to have as president.” By the near-end of the campaign, some weeks after Samantha Power made the “monster” comment that would end her involvement with the Obama campaign, Bill Clinton was out on the stump in West Virginia saying he didn’t “give a rip about all this name-calling.”

INTO THE TIME MACHINE!!!!!!!!!! BLUBLUBLUBLUBPUBPUBLUBPUBULBUPBLUUU

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/...Between-Clinton-and-Obama-Supporters-Unedited

The hatred is thick. It’s so thick you can hear it in the voices spewing out support for their candidate. You can see it in their eyes as they brow beat opponents with disgusted gestures. The hatred seems so palpable nowadays I’d venture you can feel it over the dinner table when husbands and wives pass the potatoes to each other in utter silence. It’s no longer a civil discussion about two highly qualified Democrat candidates. It has suddenly become a referendum on who is absolutely right and who is absolutely wrong.

"I know exactly what I'm talking about, you don't. Clinton gives solutions. Obama gives speeches. How dare you think you know more than I do?" snarled a sixty-eight year old woman yesterday to a twenty-something upstart. Her facial expression alternated between disappointment and disgust.

The young man attempted to point out the legislative accomplishments of Senator Barack Obama and the need to bring transparency to Washington but his words fell on deaf ears. He might as well have been talking about the origins of a foreign language.

Two minutes later, possibly out of frustration or anger, the old lady drew a line in the sand. "There is no way in the world I will ever vote for Barack Hussein Obama. I’d rather have Bush back in office."

http://www.salon.com/2008/04/14/obama_supporters/

Dana Lossia, a 29-year-old labor lawyer in Brooklyn, describes herself as a “pretty big Obama supporter. ” She worked for a year at Michelle Obama’s Public Allies Chicago, where she met Barack a few times. She called him “the most inspiring, amazing person, a different kind of politician.” Of Hillary Clinton, whom Lossia supported in her Senate runs, Lossia said, “I just think she’s acted badly during this campaign.”

And yet, as Lossia wrote in a recent e-mail, “I’ve been really bothered by what I perceive as sexism [among some male Obama supporters] and have spent hours defending [Clinton] … A lot of guys just can’t stand Hillary, and it’s the intensity of their irritation with her that disturbs me more than their devotion to Obama.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/11/opinion/11krugman.html

Supporters of each candidate should have no trouble rallying behind the other if he or she gets the nod.

Why, then, is there so much venom out there?

I won’t try for fake evenhandedness here: most of the venom I see is coming from supporters of Mr. Obama, who want their hero or nobody. I’m not the first to point out that the Obama campaign seems dangerously close to becoming a cult of personality. We’ve already had that from the Bush administration — remember Operation Flight Suit? We really don’t want to go there again.

What’s particularly saddening is the way many Obama supporters seem happy with the application of “Clinton rules” — the term a number of observers use for the way pundits and some news organizations treat any action or statement by the Clintons, no matter how innocuous, as proof of evil intent.

http://www.newstatesman.com/north-america/2008/05/obama-clinton-vote-usa-media

History, I suspect, will look back on the past six months as an example of America going through one of its collectively deranged episodes - rather like Prohibition from 1920-33, or McCarthyism some 30 years later. This time it is gloating, unshackled sexism of the ugliest kind. It has been shamelessly peddled by the US media, which - sooner rather than later, I fear - will have to account for their sins. The chief victim has been Senator Hillary Clinton, but the ramifications could be hugely harmful for America and the world.

I am no particular fan of Clinton. Nor, I think, would friends and colleagues accuse me of being racist. But it is quite inconceivable that any leading male presidential candidate would be treated with such hatred and scorn as Clinton has been. What other senator and serious White House contender would be likened by National Public Radio's political editor, Ken Rudin, to the demoniac, knife-wielding stalker played by Glenn Close in Fatal Attraction? Or described as "a fucking whore" by Randi Rhodes, one of the foremost personalities of the supposedly liberal Air America? Could anybody have envisaged that a website set up specifically to oppose any other candidate would be called Citizens United Not Timid? (We do not need an acronym for that.)

I will come to the reasons why I fear such unabashed misogyny in the US media could lead, ironically, to dreadful racial unrest.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/...porters-at-the-Meeting-are-a-Disgrace-Updated

The Clinton campaign and all of her supporters everywhere must be embarrassed and humiliated by the rudeness of her supporters present in the meeting room.

These rude and disgraceful supporters do their candidate no service, indeed, they do her a disservice. If anecdotal reports from the meeting and the protest outside are to be believed, then these supporters are expressing their intention to embrace the Bush Administration and all of their failures and crimes by refusing to support our Party's nominee. If the same anecdotal reports are to be believed, many of the Clinton supporters present are passing out scurrilous flyers telling horrible right wing lies about our nominee, Barack Obama. These flyers are calling him an adulterer and a murderer.

 

[Macho Madness]

How do you all feel about #EarnThisDamnVote going around? A movement that wants Dems to make race inequality a campaign focus or they don't vote.

 

[benjipwns]

5 results (0.23 seconds)

I guess I don't have Black Google to scan Black Twitter.