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PoliGAF 2016 |OT10| Jill Stein Inflatable Love Doll

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Earlier this week, Maddow tied Bannon and Conway to Trump's biggest donor, a guy named Robert Mercer. I think this is the relevant link; http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow/watch/trump-mainstreams-fringe-with-breitbart-hire-751367747914
Given Trump's praise of Alex Jones, I'm thinking this is another instance of him losing all objectivity as soon as a person starts being nice to him. Like, if his first impression of someone is that they're praising or supporting him, he's going to want them on and stand by them. That's his personal vetting process.

But when these "friends" are espousing racist and frankly repugnant views, it can easily make it look like you also share the same views they do. Especially if it takes a while to actually disavow them.

I think another part of it is that conservative politicians have a bad habit of "doubling down" on what they say, no matter how controversial. Just look at the Maine governor; they view strength as being the same as never saying sorry, and in turn it makes them look all that much worse to your average person.
 
OK, so Bannon is actually necessary (somewhat) in Trump's organization because Conway is spending WAY too much time doing appearances and TV to be a traditional campaign chief. Bannon has to be shouldering some of that work.

Ailes is probably the one with the most influence on Trump right now.
 

Debirudog

Member
Earlier this week, Maddow tied Bannon and Conway to Trump's biggest donor, a guy named Robert Mercer. I think this is the relevant link; http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow/watch/trump-mainstreams-fringe-with-breitbart-hire-751367747914

I understand now. Thank you and thank Maddow.

talking-nod.gif
 
OK, so Bannon is actually necessary (somewhat) in Trump's organization because Conway is spending WAY too much time doing appearances and TV to be a traditional campaign chief. Bannon has to be shouldering some of that work.

Ailes is probably the one with the most influence on Trump right now.

Which means one of the people in charge of his campaign is a serial sexual assaulter. The other one has a history of domestic violence, anti-Semitic language, and white nationalism. The previous one was probably working for the Russian KGB. The one before that physically asusulted a woman and is now shilling on CNN while still being paid by the campaign.

I literally see no problems here.
 

Iolo

Member
OK, so Bannon is actually necessary (somewhat) in Trump's organization because Conway is spending WAY too much time doing appearances and TV to be a traditional campaign chief. Bannon has to be shouldering some of that work.

Ailes is probably the one with the most influence on Trump right now.

But the job of a campaign chief/manager is to build out ground game and analytics and manage hundreds of people... none of which Trump is doing. Conway is more a strategist or, really, candidate manager. Bannon has a made up title and is probably doing one thing: giving Trump advice. He has absolutely no campaign experience.

And, it was reported that the Christie aide hire was being pushed by Jared! Remember him? Everyone is working at cross purposes in this campaign.
 
Woah dudes, CNN is calling out AP?

Associated Press botches Hillary Clinton report and response
Hillary Clinton is surrounded by suggestions of controversy. Terms like "Clinton Foundation," "email server," and "Benghazi" hover around her like a faint smoke that hints at the existence of fire.

But finding the fire -- the lie, the misdeed, the unethical act -- is proving to be rather difficult, as evidenced this week by an inaccurate tweet and arguably misleading story from the Associated Press that were quickly rebutted by the Clinton campaign and dismissed by many media outlets.


Three days later, the Associated Press is still standing by its story and has yet to correct its tweet, despite near unanimous agreement among other journalists that the tweet, at least, was false.

"The AP's social-media take on the story was seriously flawed," David Boardman, the Dean of the School of Media and Communication at Temple University and former editor of the Seattle Times, told CNNMoney. "It's sloppy, click-grabbing shorthand that is a disservice to the reporting to which it refers."

On Tuesday, the AP sent out a breaking news alert: "BREAKING: AP analysis: More than half those who met Clinton as Cabinet secretary gave money to Clinton Foundation."

Not true: As the article stated, what the AP found was that "more than half the people outside the government" who met with Clinton while she was secretary of state "gave money — either personally or through companies or groups — to the Clinton Foundation."

This "extraordinary" finding, as the AP put it, was deemed less extraordinary by other journalists and pundits who noted that Clinton had held thousands of meetings with government employees, foreign representatives, civil leaders, journalists and others while Secretary of State that were not accounted for in the AP's report.

Moreover, the AP only analyzed 154 meetings, based on what has been made available by the State Department, and thus its review only accounts for a fraction of Clinton's meeting schedule during her tenure as secretary of state. (The AP's defenders correctly note that the wire service was only able to examine a limited dataset because of the State Department's intransigence regarding the release of further records, which the AP has been fighting hard to secure.)

Nevertheless, the AP's tweet allowed Donald Trump to stand on stage at a campaign rally and declare that "fifty percent of people who saw [Clinton] had to make a contribution to the Clinton Foundation."


Clinton campaign spokesperson Brian Fallon accused the AP of cherrypicking "a limited subset" of data to give "a distorted portrayal of how often she crossed paths with individuals connected to charitable donations to the Clinton Foundation." On Twitter, he hit the AP for failing to correct its breaking news alert, which he called "100 percent factually inaccurate."

In a statement, AP spokesperson Paul Colford said his organization had been "transparent in how it has reported this story," and that it would continue to examine Clinton's schedules as they became available.

"The Associated Press' reporting relied on publicly available data provided by the State Department about Hillary Clinton's meetings, phone calls and emails, cross-referenced against donor information provided by the Clinton Foundation and its related charities on its websites," Colford wrote.


Meanwhile, other news organizations pilloried the AP's report.

The Washington Post Fact-Checker wrote that there were "many more nuanced and important details in the story that are being misrepresented — by the AP's own promotional tweet, and by Trump."


Vox's Matthew Yglesias was more direct: "The AP's big exposé on Hillary meeting with Clinton Foundation donors is a mess," his headline read.

Boardman argued that the story itself "was not nearly so flawed as Yglesias and others have charged."

"The AP reporters made clear they found no smoking-gun quid pro quo. And Clinton defenders' claim that 'there is no story' is absurd; of course it is worth investigating and explaining the relationship between Secretary Clinton and the Foundation, and how that relationship worked while she was at State," he said.

"If anything," Boardman continued, "the AP story could have used far more exploration of the inherent ethical issues here, and of the notion that whether or not Clinton gave extraordinary help to Foundation donors, the potential for accusations of that was probably reason enough to avoid such meetings altogether."
I wanted to bold the whole thing but this is awesome.
 

Bowdz

Member
Despite being accused as a robot, Hillary's pretty gif-able.

She's on record as being a robot!!!! WAKE UP SHEEPLE!

http://www.vanityfair.com/news/2015/10/hillary-clinton-robot-sweat

HILLARY CLINTON: You guys are the first to realize that I’m really not even a human being. I was constructed in a garage in Palo Alto a very long time ago. People think that, you know, Bill Gates and Steve Jobs, they created it. Oh no. I mean, a man whose name shall remain nameless created me in his garage.

ANOTHER ROUND: Are there more of you?

HILLARY CLINTON: I thought he threw away the plans, at least that’s what he told me when he programmed me — that there would be no more. I’ve seen more people that kind of don’t sweat, and other things, that make me think maybe they are part of the new race that he created: the robot race.

ANOTHER ROUND: So there’s a cyborg army is what you’re saying.

HILLARY CLINTON: But you have to cut this, you can’t tell anybody this. I don’t want anybody to know this. This has been a secret until here we are in Davenport, Iowa, and I’m just spillin’ my electronic guts to you.

ANOTHER ROUND: And without bourbon.

HILLARY CLINTON: Without any bourbon. Yeah. That’s why I have to wait ’til the end of the day.
 

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
Woah dudes, CNN is calling out AP?

Associated Press botches Hillary Clinton report and response

I wanted to bold the whole thing but this is awesome.

Pretty much everyone is calling them out, that article was incredibly lazy and poorly researched. It's something they could have researched and written in a single weekend after getting that basic information from State. There's other slants they could have taken, but all of them would have required far more reporting than was actually done.
 
Pretty much everyone is calling them out, that article was incredibly lazy and poorly researched. It's something they could have researched and written in a single weekend after getting that basic information from State. There's other slants they could have taken, but all of them would have required far more reporting than was actually done.
Maybe they did it to get access to Trump. They pretty much provided the basis for his campaign talking points for the entire week. Makes no sense why a respected news agency like AP would fudge the details.
 
Pretty much everyone is calling them out, that article was incredibly lazy and poorly researched. It's something they could have researched and written in a single weekend after getting that basic information from State. There's other slants they could have taken, but all of them would have required far more reporting than was actually done.

Plus, every media outlet wants to be FIRST in case they finally get the story that takes down the Clinton's. The facts, the truth, journalistic integrity don't matter if there's a snowballs chance in hell the Clintons will go down.
 
Seems like the speech gave the media the perfect opportunity to pivot away from that shit AP story after they all lost their minds. As respected as they are to not be completely open with what they were saying is incredible sleazy.
 

Debirudog

Member
Plus, every media outlet wants to be FIRST in case they finally get the story that takes down the Clinton's. The facts, the truth, journalistic integrity don't matter if there's a snowballs chance in hell the Clintons will go down.

What's disappointing is that AP's supposedly one of the very best. Mess.
 

PantherLotus

Professional Schmuck
You all can observe the toxicity of normalized insanity when you all realize that suddenly Lewandowski doesn't look so bad as a campaign manager. Sure, maybe he assaulted a woman here and there but it's not like he was literally working with the Russian government or a literal anti-semite.

What a freaking election. There's no way Bannon can stay on after this, right?
 

ampere

Member
Whoever was in charge of that AP story really shit the bed. They could have said they didn't find anything, but still think the foundation presented potential conflicts of interest, etc, but instead they fudged numbers and made shit up
 
You all can observe the toxicity of normalized insanity when you all realize that suddenly Lewandowski doesn't look so bad as a campaign manager. Sure, maybe he assaulted a woman here and there but it's not like he was literally working with the Russian government or a literal anti-semite.

What a freaking election. There's no way Bannon can stay on after this, right?

You know, I don't know. I mean, if this gets more traction, it confirms 100% Hillary's narrative. If they keep him, they own him, and they own the entire alt-right. We'll keep hitting this shit again and again and again. If we play this right, we can deny him a news cycle for quite a while.

If he fires him, there he goes again. We can still say "Yup, see? White nationalist! Only fired because it became public. Who else in the campaign is a literal racist piece of shit?"

Again, there's no good answer here. There's not solution, because how the fuck do you survive another campaign shakeup?
 

Sianos

Member
I come with grave tidings from the world of academia.

Today, a college student was triggered during a short history lecture I was "attending" with a friend before my own classes started. He interrupted the professor to espouse his own political views and how the content of lecture was bothering him. It was just as it was foretold!

The professor was giving an aside about how the classification "civilization" tends to be often used in such a vague way that she sees it used to smuggle in connotations about a dichotomy of "civilized" people versus "uncivilized" people with poorly defined boundaries of what the classification of "civilization" is supposed to entail. Whereas a more accurate view in her opinion would be to consider a continuum of continual small advances and setbacks as social structures grew organically.

Some guy then interrupted her to tell her that she was "being politically correct". He then stuttered a bit about how she was constraining the way people think - you know, by pointing out how she felt a dichotomy was warping people's perceptions - and then said something about how politically correctness is ruining colleges.

I didn't say anything in response to him - because I wasn't exactly supposed to be there - and everyone just ignored his little outburst anyways... but I really, really wanted to take that opportunity to bore everyone with semantics talk and definitively smack down the whiner.

dac15_face.gif
 

sazzy

Member
Who fits this definition more: Trump or Clinton?


bigot
ˈbɪɡət/
noun
a person who is intolerant towards those holding different opinions.
"don't let a few small-minded bigots destroy the good image of the city"
synonyms: dogmatist, partisan, sectarian, prejudiced person; racist, racialist, sexist, homophobe, chauvinist, jingoist, anti-Semite; informal: male chauvinist pig, MCP
 

Piecake

Member
So, why haven't we seen more of Ivanka since the RNC?

It just seems stupid not to have her out there and trying to talk to white suburban women. I guess my only explanation is that she really doesnt want to do it.
 

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
Maybe they did it to get access to Trump. They pretty much provided the basis for his campaign talking points for the entire week. Makes no sense why a respected news agency like AP would fudge the details.

I mean, there's a story there. It's just not the one those writers wanted to tell.
 

ampere

Member
So, why haven't we seen more of Ivanka since the RNC?

It just seems stupid not to have her out there and trying to talk to white suburban women. I guess my only explanation is that she really doesnt want to do it.

Maybe she wants a future as a public figure and said "dad... I can't" at a certain point when he wouldn't listen to her
 

Suikoguy

I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
Pretty much everyone is calling them out, that article was incredibly lazy and poorly researched. It's something they could have researched and written in a single weekend after getting that basic information from State. There's other slants they could have taken, but all of them would have required far more reporting than was actually done.

I'm still a bit shocked they doubled down as quickly as they did.
Going to be a hell of a job to walk it back now.
 

mo60

Member
You all can observe the toxicity of normalized insanity when you all realize that suddenly Lewandowski doesn't look so bad as a campaign manager. Sure, maybe he assaulted a woman here and there but it's not like he was literally working with the Russian government or a literal anti-semite.

What a freaking election. There's no way Bannon can stay on after this, right?
Lewandowski was probably trump's best campaign manager compared to Manafort and Bannon. He is not as controversial as those two.
 

mo60

Member
You know, I don't know. I mean, if this gets more traction, it confirms 100% Hillary's narrative. If they keep him, they own him, and they own the entire alt-right. We'll keep hitting this shit again and again and again. If we play this right, we can deny him a news cycle for quite a while.

If he fires him, there he goes again. We can still say "Yup, see? White nationalist! Only fired because it became public. Who else in the campaign is a literal racist piece of shit?"

Again, there's no good answer here. There's not solution, because how the fuck do you survive another campaign shakeup?

Even if he fires Bannon he still has guys like david duke that still want to praise trump and get encouraged by trump's behaviour.
 

LOCK

Member
I come with grave tidings from the world of academia.

Today, a college student was triggered during a short history lecture I was "attending" with a friend before my own classes started. He interrupted the professor to espouse his own political views and how the content of lecture was bothering him. It was just as it was foretold!

The professor was giving an aside about how the classification "civilization" tends to be often used in such a vague way that she sees it used to smuggle in connotations about a dichotomy of "civilized" people versus "uncivilized" people with poorly defined boundaries of what the classification of "civilization" is supposed to entail. Whereas a more accurate view in her opinion would be to consider a continuum of continual small advances and setbacks as social structures grew organically.

Some guy then interrupted her to tell her that she was "being politically correct". He then stuttered a bit about how she was constraining the way people think - you know, by pointing out how she felt a dichotomy was warping people's perceptions - and then said something about how politically correctness is ruining colleges.

I didn't say anything in response to him - because I wasn't exactly supposed to be there - and everyone just ignored his little outburst anyways... but I really, really wanted to take that opportunity to bore everyone with semantics talk and definitively smack down the whiner.

dac15_face.gif
I would have said this was my class, not his, that if he wanted to argue then get his doctorate and write a thesis about political correctness, but in the mean time we'll just keep using my personal definition for the class.

I've actually done this before.
 
I promise this is the last time
today
I'm going to bitch about the USC Poll.

Hillary is now 2 points ahead in it. It has oscillated back and forth for days now. This is not predictive of anything. It's stupid.
 

Piecake

Member
I promise this is the last time
today
I'm going to bitch about the USC Poll.

Hillary is now 2 points ahead in it. It has oscillated back and forth for days now. This is not predictive of anything. It's stupid.

http://radiofreegop.com/trumps-pivot-to-nowhere-super-pollster-mark-mellman/

You'll feel better after you listen to this. A republican and democrat pollster shooting the shit where they talk about how to do good polling and what are some common errors.

One that they point out is one day polls because it is simply impossible to get the demographics right in a day.
 
I promise this is the last time
today
I'm going to bitch about the USC Poll.

Hillary is now 2 points ahead in it. It has oscillated back and forth for days now. This is not predictive of anything. It's stupid.

Doesn't it rotate through various subsets across the week? So only weekly averages or comparisons to the same group week to week would be useful. I think it's a different idea for a poll and has some merit. The way that they weighted the sample against past voting record was probably a mistake but we shouldn't we hold off before we throw the whole thing in the trash. Give it the whole election at least.

http://radiofreegop.com/trumps-pivot-to-nowhere-super-pollster-mark-mellman/

You'll feel better after you listen to this. A republican and democrat pollster shooting the shit where they talk about how to do good polling and what are some common errors.

One that they point out is one day polls because it is simply impossible to get the demographics right in a day.

That is a good podcast. This week's episode had Robert Costa casually mentioning that he heard that Manafort intentionally kept polling data away from Trump to keep his spirits up.

The USC poll is different from the types of daily tracking polls that they were talking about. USC took time to get what they felt was a good sample and they just re poll that same group once a week.
 
Yeah, Chris Matthews is sort of stuck in "remember the old days" mode. Lawrence O'Donnell does that sometimes too but it's not as bad.

Matthews goes way of the rails at times. Just wandering in history and anecdote.

I played 4 hours of Witcher 3. Seriously the greatest game ever in the past 10 years.

You're in for a ride.

Woah dudes, CNN is calling out AP?

Associated Press botches Hillary Clinton report and response

I wanted to bold the whole thing but this is awesome.

Pretty much everyone is calling them out, that article was incredibly lazy and poorly researched. It's something they could have researched and written in a single weekend after getting that basic information from State. There's other slants they could have taken, but all of them would have required far more reporting than was actually done.

I think their overall reporting was solid. How they presented that reporting was poor. They found a pile of sticks that could be a fire and called it "fire" way ahead of time.
 
http://radiofreegop.com/trumps-pivot-to-nowhere-super-pollster-mark-mellman/

You'll feel better after you listen to this. A republican and democrat pollster shooting the shit where they talk about how to do good polling and what are some common errors.

One that they point out is one day polls because it is simply impossible to get the demographics right in a day.

Doesn't it rotate through various subsets across the week? So only weekly averages or comparisons to the same group week to week would be useful. I think it's a different idea for a poll and has some merit. The way that they weighted the sample against past voting record was probably a mistake but we shouldn't we hold off before we throw the whole thing in the trash. Give it the whole election at least.



That is a good podcast. This week's episode had Robert Costa casually mentioning that he heard that Manafort intentionally kept polling data away from Trump to keep his spirits up.

The USC poll is different from the types of daily tracking polls that they were talking about. USC took time to get what they felt was a good sample and they just re poll that same group once a week.

I'm just responding to you both at once, because it's 4am and I'm still reading polling information and I need help> Send help.

The USC poll is not a poll, it's a panel. Part of the way they determined to have a balanced sample was to ask people who they voted for in 2012. Problem is, people rarely admit/remember voting for the loser. So, like Nate said, their numbers are probably off because of that. And, ya, they do 1/7th of the sample every day.

The fact that nearly everyday we see a different leader is what makes adding it to Nate's model so fucking annoying to me. Each days sample can't possibly be representative. If it were, I don't think we'd see such changes every single day.

Like, Trump was at 4% of the AA vote on the 15th. His support for the next seven days was 14%. He went from 4-14% in a single day of the panel. He's now cratered back to 4. So, those 7 days should have been the whole entire panel...and he magically gained and lost 10 points?

Also, these fucking IPSOS things that 538 is using are just ridiculous

I'm supposed to believe that Hillary is winning Nebraska, but losing NH by 14.
Hillary is winning Ohio by 7, but losing Wisconsin by 3.
South Carolina is tied, but Trump is winning Michigan.
Trump is winning Maine, but Hillary is winning Iowa.
Hillary has a larger lead in Pennsylvania, than Trump does in West Virginia.
 

AniHawk

Member
Also, these fucking IPSOS things that 538 is using are just ridiculous

I'm supposed to believe that Hillary is winning Nebraska, but losing NH by 14.
Hillary is winning Ohio by 7, but losing Wisconsin by 3.
South Carolina is tied, but Trump is winning Michigan.
Trump is winning Maine, but Hillary is winning Iowa.
Hillary has a larger lead in Pennsylvania, than Trump does in West Virginia.

i'm wondering why the hell they were commissioned. a sample size of under 150 can't be super great for your poll when it comes to demographics and such, can it? i thought 500 was the accepted minimum.
 
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