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PoliGAF 2016 |OT10| Jill Stein Inflatable Love Doll

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Y2Kev

TLG Fan Caretaker Est. 2009
I'm getting a little tired of people saying over and over again that the media will declare Trump a winner just for not crapping himself. People are setting the bar SO low that I think there's a real chance the media has to step over it and judge things somewhat accurately!

I hope Hillary has real answers for some knives that are going to be pointed at her very directly, including emails/Foundation/health. She should be able to chew him up and spit him out on absolutely every other topic.

Also Linda Elerbee is still alive?
 

User1608

Banned
I've seen bumper stickers, flags, hats, and shirts.

In Canada.

In British Columbia.
😨Yeesh!
Everyone wants to be their own Democratic Strategist in here. Debate is a week away. Let's just prepare for the worse in the new polls this week and hope next week brings new hopium.
I'll be realistic in my expectations and prepare for the worst and do what what I can. A big decision will be made by so many in less than two months. If good news comes up, fantastic! If not, it is what it is.

I do believe Hillary will exceed expectations in the debates though.
 
Worked for DWS.
THAT'S BAIT

Except for Michael Steele, the last few RNC chairs haven't held real political office, right? They're all lawyers and failed politicians who opted to work for the party.

What? That's wrong, you're wrong, that can't be -

  • Michael Steele - career chairperson
  • Mike Duncan - lawyer, banker, lobbyist
  • Mel Martinez - failed politician and lawyer
...
 

KingK

Member
Honestly, one point I don't really see mentioned often regarding Clinton's perceived dishonesty is the power of branding. All decent politicians put a lot of effort and research into building a brand for themselves. The Clintons spent the beginning of their political career and all of the 90s/Bill's presidency building a brand as a new type of Democrat. One openly opposed to the (at the time) perceived excesses and naivete of the more progressive and liberal wing. They were very successful at building the Clinton name as a brand associated with a more moderate, business friendly Democrat.

You can fairly argue that it was necessary, given the contemporary political climate following a series of major defeats; and that this Clinton brand was essential to the democrats' victories in the 90s. But in 2016 things are different, and the base is eager to shed the DLC/moderate/blue dog faction and embrace the progressive/liberal wing again. And Clinton has adjusted her policies accordingly for the most part. But it's not unfair for people to be skeptical of her embrace of the progressive movement when so much effort was put into disassociating the Clinton brand from "liberal" during the 90s when it was more toxic. And the more high profile you are, the harder it is to change those perceptions, or "re-brand."

It's part of why I was wishing for more serious competition against Clinton in the primary. Because it's never made sense to me, from a marketing perspective, to have the embodiment of the 90s/moderate Democrat/Third Way politics lead the charge for the much more progressive direction the party has been taking. But it doesn't help that the current bench of Democrats capable of filling that role is pathetically weak and small due to their complete failure to build up many young stars at the state/local level over the last several years. I think there are definitely steps she can take to improve those perceptions right now, but I would also agree with whoever said that much of it will persist until she can get into office and prove her commitment with more solid actions (which may be very difficult with a Republican congress).

edit: this is also why I definitely agree with royalan that she needs to focus a lot more of her campaign on promoting her current platform. I don't think enough effort has been put in to showing what she has that's new and different from peoples perception of the 90s Clintons. It's why I think she had such a good convention bounce, because the new Democratic platform is popular. It's also why there's such a disparity between Obama's approval and Hillary's polling; because Obama's brand is the embodiment of the new direction of the party. You know, "Change," and all that.
 
I saw a Confederate bumper sticker in MA with a license plate for the state.

Wonderful indeed.

Somebody told me they see Confederate flags in CANADA. I didn't believe them. This was years ago. But I started watching Trailer Park Boys this month and have seen Confederate flags in the trailer park a couple of times. Obviously it's a mockumentary so it could be a joke, but I can't tell because that one person told me he's seen them in Nova Scotia which, coincidentally, is where TPB is set.
 

Sibylus

Banned
Same place also had an unironic git-r-done hat.

Somebody told me they see Confederate flags in CANADA. I didn't believe them. This was years ago. But I started watching Trailer Park Boys this month and have seen Confederate flags in the trailer park a couple of times. Obviously it's a mockumentary so it could be a joke, but I can't tell because that one person told me he's seen them in Nova Scotia which, coincidentally, is where TPB is set.

Believe it. I live in BC's interior, they're there. Hobbestetrician saw them down on the coast.
 

sphagnum

Banned
There was someone at a flea market here in NJ selling a lot of WWII memorabilia that was really obviously just a front for selling Neo Nazi stuff, like a big poster of Hitler.

I promptly went to another booth and bought an atlas of the USSR with Stalin's face on it instead.
 

Y2Kev

TLG Fan Caretaker Est. 2009
Honestly, one point I don't really see mentioned often regarding Clinton's perceived dishonesty is the power of branding. All decent politicians put a lot of effort and research into building a brand for themselves. The Clintons spent the beginning of their political career and all of the 90s/Bill's presidency building a brand as a new type of Democrat. One openly opposed to the (at the time) perceived excesses and naivete of the more progressive and liberal wing. They were very successful at building the Clinton name as a brand associated with a more moderate, business friendly Democrat.

You can fairly argue that it was necessary, given the contemporary political climate following a series of major defeats; and that this Clinton brand was essential to the democrats' victories in the 90s. But in 2016 things are different, and the base is eager to shed the DLC/moderate/blue dog faction and embrace the progressive/liberal wing again. And Clinton has adjusted her policies accordingly for the most part. But it's not unfair for people to be skeptical of her embrace of the progressive movement when so much effort was put into disassociating the Clinton brand from "liberal" during the 90s when it was more toxic. And the more high profile you are, the harder it is to change those perceptions, or "re-brand."

It's part of why I was wishing for more serious competition against Clinton in the primary. Because it's never made sense to me, from a marketing perspective, to have the embodiment of the 90s/moderate Democrat/Third Way politics lead the charge for the much more progressive direction the party has been taking. But it doesn't help that the current bench of Democrats capable of filling that role is pathetically weak and small due to their complete failure to build up many young stars at the state/local level over the last several years. I think there are definitely steps she can take to improve those perceptions right now, but I would also agree with whoever said that much of it will persist until she can get into office and prove her commitment with more solid actions (which may be very difficult with a Republican congress).

edit: this is also why I definitely agree with royalan that she needs to focus a lot more of her campaign on promoting her current platform. I don't think enough effort has been put in to showing what she has that's new and different from peoples perception of the 90s Clintons. It's why I think she had such a good convention bounce, because the new Democratic platform is popular. It's also why there's such a disparity between Obama's approval and Hillary's polling; because Obama's brand is the embodiment of the new direction of the party. You know, "Change," and all that.

But this is a lot of "brand" and, I think, not all that much substance. You're basically penalizing her for being married to Clinton. Hillary has always been significantly more progressive than Bill, even in the 90s. Hillary's policies are not, I think, that dramatically different than they were even in 2008. I think she has made some very transparent political concessions to get through the primary but she is definitely not a Third Way politician and never has been in any way except by marriage.

I think there's still a high degree of toxicity to the word "liberal" in the American political marketplace, even today. I think the Democratic party embracing the far left would result in it getting its ass handed to it.

edit: I think Hillary is and was to the left of Obama in most ways (barring one very visible big one) and every thread around here is "i love obama" "i want more obama" "I miss obama" until we get a TPP Thread and then it's a bunch of people shitting their pants and not even knowing why.
 

Makai

Member
I don't see why Benji's ideology is so confusing to people. It's about as straight-forward and self-consistent as it comes.
 

KingK

Member
But this is a lot of "brand" and, I think, not all that much substance. You're basically penalizing her for being married to Clinton. Hillary has always been significantly more progressive than Bill, even in the 90s. Hillary's policies are not, I think, that dramatically different than they were even in 2008. I think she has made some very transparent political concessions to get through the primary but she is definitely not a Third Way politician and never has been in any way except by marriage.

I think there's still a high degree of toxicity to the word "liberal" in the American political marketplace, even today. I think the Democratic party embracing the far left would result in it getting its ass handed to it.

edit: I think Hillary is and was to the left of Obama in most ways (barring one very visible big one) and every thread around here is "i love obama" "i want more obama" "I miss obama" until we get a TPP Thread and then it's a bunch of people shitting their pants and not even knowing why.

I don't even really disagree with the first paragraph. I didn't say it's fair, just bringing up the role that I think brand association is playing here with her numbers. It's worked to their advantage in the past, but I think it's something that's hurting her right now, even if unfairly. Although I think the perception is aided by some substantive issues, like her past support of the crime bill or Iraq war (personally foreign policy is my biggest area of critique/hesitation regarding her and has been the whole time); but also plenty of unfair bullshit. It's why I think a lot of it won't go away until she's able to show some solid results, I'm just worried about her getting blocked by a Republican congress.
 

Retro

Member
Who is playing Trump for Hillary's debate prep

An 1954 Model 30 Electrolux vacuum cleaner with a bad motor, full bag and a dead opossum stuck on top for maximum hair simulation. They're looking through flea markets in Ohio next week for old dolls they can salvage a pair of tiny hands from.

No clue how long it's been there, but I just noticed Clinton has "What Trump just did is a disgrace." pinned at the top of her Twitter page.

It could have been pinned there for a year and it'd still be accurate.
 
No clue how long it's been there, but I just noticed Clinton has "What Trump just did is a disgrace." pinned at the top of her Twitter page.



I'd like to think Lewis Black.

The key to a good Clinton performance will be finding someone who can get under her skin, throw the insults her way and bring up the sordid past.
 

Pyrokai

Member
Guys I'm really starting to freaking worry. I just saw an article about Hillary looking "frail" when she gave her comment about the NYC Chelsea bomb. As if Trump looks like a million bucks all the time. He's an orange doofus who likes just as old.

The debates better be a turning point for Clinton. I can't emotionally and physically take this anymore. I have donated so much money and I'm already broke and can't keep it up like this all the way to November. So stressed out. And so disappointed in my country.
 

DrForester

Kills Photobucket
Ha!

sH6C7p4.jpg
 

Joeytj

Banned
The key to a good Clinton performance will be finding someone who can get under her skin, throw the insults her way and bring up the sordid past.

HIlary also has a somewhat thin skin for questions that aren't policy related. Or, to be more specific, questions that aren't really questions and just accusations.

She's gotten better at addressing these, but you can tell that she hates talking about stupid scandals. This is actually something she and Obama have in common.

They both hate being asked scandal questions, but Obama has gotten better at addressing them by being candid with the situation, and Hillary kind of bungles through them a lot of the times with either too much dismissiveness or too much minutia.
 

Joeytj

Banned
Guys I'm really starting to freaking worry. I just saw an article about Hillary looking "frail" when she gave her comment about the NYC Chelsea bomb. As if Trump looks like a million bucks all the time. He's an orange doofus who likes just as old.

The debates better be a turning point for Clinton. I can't emotionally and physically take this anymore. I have donated so much money and I'm already broke and can't keep it up like this all the way to November. So stressed out. And so disappointed in my country.

It was 3am and she looked fine. Trumpeteers are just grasping at straws.
 

Sibylus

Banned
Guys I'm really starting to freaking worry. I just saw an article about Hillary looking "frail" when she gave her comment about the NYC Chelsea bomb. As if Trump looks like a million bucks all the time. He's an orange doofus who likes just as old.

The debates better be a turning point for Clinton. I can't emotionally and physically take this anymore. I have donated so much money and I'm already broke and can't keep it up like this all the way to November. So stressed out. And so disappointed in my country.

Detachment. Cultivate it. You're going to give yourself an ulcer or something worse if your day-in, day-out following gives you this much panic.
 

NeoXChaos

Member
FL Poll tomorrow

On Monday, The Upshot and Siena College will release their first survey of likely voters in Florida.

It’s a little different from most polls sponsored by major media organizations. Most such surveys contact voters by dialing random telephone numbers. The New York Times Upshot/Siena College poll was conducted using Florida records from a voter registration file, a data set covering every registered voter in the country. Our data set came from L2, a nonpartisan political data vendor.
 

Oblivion

Fetishing muscular manly men in skintight hosery
Wow, I can't believe that the person who's done the best job of pushing back against Trump's stupidass birther excuse was Chuck Todd.

May Todd God help us all.
 

Oblivion

Fetishing muscular manly men in skintight hosery
And why do people think Conway is a "brilliant" surrogate? All she does is deflect and ignore questions. She never makes any substantive rebuttals whatsoever.
 

Pyrokai

Member
Detachment. Cultivate it. You're going to give yourself an ulcer or something worse if your day-in, day-out following gives you this much panic.

I really should. I'm on vacation until the first day of the debate as well, lol. I really should just.....stop thinking about it but it's really, really difficult.
 

royalan

Member
And why do people think Conway is a "brilliant" surrogate? All she does is deflect and ignore questions. She never makes any substantive rebuttals whatsoever.

Conway has the thing that made Rubio the candidate I feared the most. She's a flawless bullshitter.

Put substance aside for a minute because you could fit into a Ford Explorer the amount of people who gives a shit about substance in an election. Elections are nothing but a series of performances, and in that sense Conway is a flawless actress.

She's passionate when she needs to be. She's concerned when she needs to be. She can can bounce from talking point to talking point, line to line, without being tripped up. She doesn't hesitate in her answers, and despite being rehearsed within an inch of her life she doesn't sound like it.

And she's literally the only person stumping for Trump who's that good at it.
 
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