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PoliGAF 2016 |OT12| The last days of the Republic

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M

mstevens

Member
I don't think it matters so much if the tape is real. It depends on if it's portrayed as or believed to be real.

edit: woah, a lot of sarcasm and hostility being thrown my way. I was just adding context to the tweet that was posted a page ago.
 
M

Makai

Member
It is too easy to tease political activists. Just say you're planning on voting but probably won't get around to filling out the paperwork.
 
A

AntraxSuicide

Banned
Ding II said:
Well, put me on that list of people that disagree with you. Dissing the very concept of America is not the same as showing support for black people. Especially since (American) black people are an important and positive part of what makes America what it is.

The meaning, the "idea" that I ascribe to otherwise meaningless symbols like flags and anthems are that they are a stand-in for the "net value" of the country/state they represent. Median value? Goodness quotient? I not describing good. Basically, my fondness and/or respect for a particular state symbol is almost totally dependant on my opinion of the state itself. And perhaps more importantly, my opinion of the people that make up that state. Clearly, this requires one to be able to recognize that some Americans are real pieces of shit, while others are pretty awesome, and come to some hand-wavy conclusion about how that all balances out.

Do I think the USA is perfect? Ha! Of course not. There are shitbirds everywhere you look. Do I think America is, on balance and throughout its history, more of a good thing than a bad thing? I do. It's not as much of a slam dunk as I wish it was, but I do still think pretty highly of "America". ie, its people, its founding principles, its history, its restaurants, its moms, its music. All that crap, all rolled up. That's what people are acknowledging when they "salute" a flag or stand for an anthem.

So, when some millionaire jock decides to publicly and pointedly disrespect one of the primary the symbols of America, in my mind he is disrespecting the overall *concept* of America, the people of America, essentially everything about America. That's tarring with a ludicrously wide brush. It's such an utterly non-specific "protest" that it has no real meaning other than to just be, literally, anti-American in the broadest sense possible.

I kind of doubt Kaep is rabidly un-American. I feel it's more likely that he's upset about a particular dismaying aspect of America that he recently heard about on the twitter. (He's so socially aware. It's dreamy!) The issue of blacks getting shot by cops in a seemingly offhand way is one that I whole-heartedly agree needs to be addressed, like yesterday. Fuck bigoted white people. Fuck cowardly cops. However, America isn't just the shitbags like them. That flag isn't just their flag. That anthem isn't about them.

So in the end I find his inability to translate his outrage into something just a bit more specific than giving the finger to every American, living or dead, and to all that they aspired or stood for, more than a little lazy. And counterproductive. And frankly, insulting.

TLDR: I agree with Kaep's grievances, I disagree with his "fuck all' you all" method of expressing them. Fuck you too, Kaep. Fuck you too.
Click to expand...

The anthem literally refers to this country as "The land of the free" which is quite the slap in the face to the millions that weren't during that time.

I get feels when I watch Independence Day and Captain America too, but this weird obsession with patriotism is off-putting. This isn't Columbia from Bioshock.

Cybit said:
Clinton will unite the GOP.
Click to expand...

Two things on this post:
1) Clinton is their opponent right now and this is the time where they're disintegrating. She's not uniting them, she's actually fracturing them faster.

2) We have Steve fucking King (a guy from Iowa who has a Confederate flag on his desk, wonder why) saying that, when the cameras are off, he can work with Hillary Clinton on governance. We've talked about this to death, but this country is built on racism. Hillary may be a woman (which they'll be irritated by), but she's not a black guy named Barack Hussein Obama, and that makes a huge fucking difference to these people.

Remember when Obama won in 2012 and people like O'Reilly were saying that the days where the "traditional" candidate could win were over? What do you think that was referring too?
 
B

Boke1879

Member
I mean we'll see if he has anything legit. But this man got caught doctoring footage and I would find it hard to believe he has anything that no one else does.

Unless he had someone infiltrate a dinner or something. We'll see though.
 
V

Voysa Reezun

Banned
Ding II said:
TLDR: I agree with Kaep's grievances, I disagree with his "fuck all' you all" method of expressing them. Fuck you too, Kaep. Fuck you too.
Click to expand...

I'm sorry, but you don't get it. It's not about you. It's about the issues that black folks are having with getting shot and killed by police officers when they shouldn't be. If your first instinct is to take Kaepernick's actions as a "fuck you," I just don't think you really get it and I don't trust that you understand why Kaepernick is doing what he's doing.

In fact, your little "millionaire jock" line pretty much seals that for me. Millionaire or broke, if the cops stop him and don't know who he is, he's just a dangerous black man to them. I really don't think that you get how scary it is to be black in this country sometimes (a lot of times, actually), no matter how much you profess otherwise.

To NYCmetsfan: Call me unfair or say that I'm simplifying a complex issue, but I'm sorry - for over thirty years of my life, I've tried to give people the benefit of the doubt that they really care or understand or even care to understand whenever criticism of black people airing their grievances has come up. I can't do it anymore, I'm sorry. This Trump campaign combined with some of the vile shit people have said about Kaepernick and other players specifically and about black folks in general has broken me.

On the flip side, at least it's taught me to shut up and listen a lot more closely when women or gay folks or transgender folks have something they need to say. I've been there where everyone just wants you to shut the fuck up and stop rocking the boat. It sucks.
 
E

Eusis

Member
ItWasMeantToBe19 said:
BEN CARSON IS BACK, BABY.

The doctor is in the house.

http://www.news-leader.com/story/ne...again-without-resistance-government/91732194/
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Do gay honeymoons involve re-enacting Grand Theft Auto or something? Only way that can make any real sense (well, that, or the usual bullshit of needing religion and to dogmatically follow it to have morals, because apparently humans are just innately sociopaths who need Jesus to lead them on the straight and narrow.)
 
S

Strimei

Member
mstevens said:
This is what that O'Keefe said at the end of Sept

James O'Keefe ‏@JamesOKeefeIII Sep 28
James O'Keefe Retweeted Melissa Gott
Wrong. We have tape of them demeaning and disparaging black people in the worst ways. That will matter. Coming in October.


______________

That would be extremely disappointing (not to mention problematic for the election). Hopefully it's just some idiot intern and not Hillary, if the tapes are real.
Click to expand...

I have to imagine if they had something they would've whipped it out by now. Plus yeah as others said, its O'Keefe.
 
V

Veelk

Banned
So the GOP is choosing not to abandon trump?

Well, that's too bad. Had they publically jumped ship, we'd ahve had the house and the senate both if Trump voters decided not to vote on the down ballet. Now, they still might. But with the numbers released today, I still feel pretty good about life.
 
B

Boke1879

Member
Strimei said:
I have to imagine if they had something they would've whipped it out by now. Plus yeah as others said, its O'Keefe.
Click to expand...

Also yea if this was something. You just drop it. You don't have to hype it up. Like the Trump tape. No one saw that coming. No one hyped it up. It just dropped and BAM.
 
S

sturgboski

Member
Veelk said:
So the GOP is choosing not to abandon trump?

Well, that's too bad. Had they publically jumped ship, we'd ahve had the house and the senate both if Trump voters decided not to vote on the down ballet. Now, they still might. But with the numbers released today, I still feel pretty good about life.
Click to expand...

Same is accomplished is by tying them to Trump.

As shitty as I feel most of the time, this seems like the best timeline with both Trump and GOP losing everything.
 
T

Tendo

Member
My dad has been hardcore trump since 2012. My mom now has a pre-existing condition and she explained that if he does what he said during the debate and repeal obamacare she would lose insurance if he ever changes jobs now. -1 for Trump in PA.
 
S

Strimei

Member
Boke1879 said:
Also yea if this was something. You just drop it. You don't have to hype it up. Like the Trump tape. No one saw that coming. No one hyped it up. It just dropped and BAM.
Click to expand...

Exactly.

Though speaking of, was googling him and saw a tweet from him that apparently they have a tape dropping tomorrow. Announcing in advance and all, so yeah, trying to hype things. Will fall flat.

edit: I hate going to the actual tweets, the replies are always horrible.
 
C

Cyanity

Banned
Veelk said:
So the GOP is choosing not to abandon trump?

Well, that's too bad. Had they publically jumped ship, we'd ahve had the house and the senate both if Trump voters decided not to vote on the down ballet. Now, they still might. But with the numbers released today, I still feel pretty good about life.
Click to expand...

Nonono, this is what we want. The longer the GOP waffles on Trump, the less time they will have to scramble and organize down ballot GOTV ops when the next Trump tape is released.
 
D

Diablos

Member
Tendo said:
My dad has been hardcore trump since 2012. My mom now has a pre-existing condition and she explained that if he does what he said during the debate and repeal obamacare she would lose insurance if he ever changes jobs now. -1 for Trump in PA.
Click to expand...
Amazing what it takes for someone to face the harsh reality of what a Trump Presidency really means...
 
W

whyamihere

Banned
Okay, so like, I get why Brian Fallon RT'd this, but, lol.

‏@tamarakeithNPR
Clinton camp with a crowd count for her event at The Ohio State University. This is a Trump/Bernie level crowd.

Cucby1iXgAAIqVO.jpg:large
Click to expand...

Don't!

EDIT: This is her biggest rally to date.
 
M

Manmademan

Member
MHWilliams said:
Joan Walsh on MSNBC finally said it! News is always talking about "working class" when they mean "white working class".
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That one always makes me laugh/cry whenever I hear it. It's EXTREMELY obvious that that whenever they use that phrase they mean not just "white people", but "angry white people with no education."

everyone else doesn't count as "working" I suppose.
 
J

Joeytj

Banned
whyamihere said:
Okay, so like, I get why Brian Fallon RT'd this, but, lol.



Don't!
Click to expand...

Ha, that will get Trump riled up even more (if that's possible). Clinton has gotten big crowds before, and they've never made a big deal out of it. Fallon obviously is now retweeting stuff like this because he knows it will make the Trump campaign go nuts.
 
N

Nafai1123

Banned
Some of these fact checks are so ridiculous, like they're just nit-picking to make them look more evenly untrustworthy.

"Hillary says the hacks from Russia were done to influence the election. That's false, as nobody in the intelligence community has stated as such."

Uh, how does that make the claim false? If anything it should be "unconfirmed" or some shit.
 
GutsOfThor

GutsOfThor

Member
mstevens said:
This is what that O'Keefe said at the end of Sept

James O'Keefe ‏@JamesOKeefeIII Sep 28
James O'Keefe Retweeted Melissa Gott
Wrong. We have tape of them demeaning and disparaging black people in the worst ways. That will matter. Coming in October.


______________

That would be extremely disappointing (not to mention problematic for the election). Hopefully it's just some idiot intern and not Hillary, if the tapes are real.
Click to expand...

God damn it. I hate shit like this because it most likely will be nothing but there is always that "what if" in my head.
 
B

balladofwindfishes

Member
Nafai1123 said:
Some of these fact checks are so ridiculous, like they're just nit-picking to make them look more evenly untrustworthy.

"Hillary says the hacks from Russia were done to influence the election. That's false, as nobody in the intelligence community has stated as such."

Uh, how does that make the claim false? If anything it should be "unconfirmed" or some shit.
Click to expand...

For the CNN fact check of the VP debate, they "fact checked" something the Clinton campaign Twitter said before the debate, which seemed ridiculous to me.

All to try and make both sides seem the same, I guess.
 
T

Tamanon

Banned
It's weird that the Republican senator's main argument in North Carolina is the Democrat protecting sex offenders and hating rape victims......when the guy he supports for President is.....an admitted sex offender.
 
F

Fragamemnon

Member
Mobius and pet octopus said:
http://foreignpolicy.com/2016/10/09/foreign-policy-endorses-hillary-clinton-for-president-of-the-united-states
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The last bit is a doozy:

Hillary Clinton is a quality candidate who is unquestionably well-prepared to lead this country. What is more, we do not think it is a small thing that by her election she will be righting a deep wrong that has compromised U.S. democracy since its inception: the exclusion of women from its highest offices. Were she to be elected as this country’s first woman president, not only would it be historic and send an important signal about both inclusiveness and Americans’ commitment to electing candidates who have distinguished themselves on their merits, but she would enter office having already put down one great threat to the United States of America — the grotesque and deeply disturbing prospect of a Donald Trump presidency.
Click to expand...

I don't think FP is really going out on a limb here though. If you read FP you're either an educated liberal or moderate (already voting HRC) or operating from a Norm Orenstein/Daniel Larison/George F WIll conservative viewpoint. So it's not like a dangerous position for them to make.
 
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