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[Diablos]

If I'm Trump I'm definitely going to spend time in Pittsburgh. That's a smart move. Really smart.

Not smart enough to make a damn bit of difference. We're going blue here.

 

[Mobius and pet octopus]

Damn, Foreign Policy's endorsement (1st they've ever made apparently) is a doozy.

Fortunately, not only is Trump opposed by a worthy candidate, but his opponent is, on foreign-policy and national security issues — all of the areas we cover here at FP — one of the best qualified candidates this country has produced since World War II.

http://foreignpolicy.com/2016/10/09...y-clinton-for-president-of-the-united-states/

 

[StopMakingSense]

Mr. Acorn truther and tried to wiretap a congresswoman (??).

*senator

 

[Manmademan]

Well, put me on that list of people that disagree with you. Dissing the very concept of America is not the same as showing support for black people. Especially since (American) black people are an important and positive part of what makes America what it is.

The meaning, the "idea" that I ascribe to otherwise meaningless symbols like flags and anthems are that they are a stand-in for the "net value" of the country/state they represent. Median value? Goodness quotient? I not describing good. Basically, my fondness and/or respect for a particular state symbol is almost totally dependant on my opinion of the state itself. And perhaps more importantly, my opinion of the people that make up that state. Clearly, this requires one to be able to recognize that some Americans are real pieces of shit, while others are pretty awesome, and come to some hand-wavy conclusion about how that all balances out.

Do I think the USA is perfect? Ha! Of course not. There are shitbirds everywhere you look. Do I think America is, on balance and throughout its history, more of a good thing than a bad thing? I do. It's not as much of a slam dunk as I wish it was, but I do still think pretty highly of "America". ie, its people, its founding principles, its history, its restaurants, its moms, its music. All that crap, all rolled up. That's what people are acknowledging when they "salute" a flag or stand for an anthem.

So, when some millionaire jock decides to publicly and pointedly disrespect one of the primary the symbols of America, in my mind he is disrespecting the overall *concept* of America, the people of America, essentially everything about America. That's tarring with a ludicrously wide brush. It's such an utterly non-specific "protest" that it has no real meaning other than to just be, literally, anti-American in the broadest sense possible.

I kind of doubt Kaep is rabidly un-American. I feel it's more likely that he's upset about a particular dismaying aspect of America that he recently heard about on the twitter. (He's so socially aware. It's dreamy!) The issue of blacks getting shot by cops in a seemingly offhand way is one that I whole-heartedly agree needs to be addressed, like yesterday. Fuck bigoted white people. Fuck cowardly cops. However, America isn't just the shitbags like them. That flag isn't just their flag. That anthem isn't about them.

So in the end I find his inability to translate his outrage into something just a bit more specific than giving the finger to every American, living or dead, and to all that they aspired or stood for, more than a little lazy. And counterproductive. And frankly, insulting.

TLDR: I agree with Kaep's grievances, I disagree with his "fuck all' you all" method of expressing them. Fuck you too, Kaep. Fuck you too.

\

so....given that massive pile of word salad, tell me how you feel about this photo:

Were they disrespecting the very concept of america? the people of america? everything about america?

Was their protest non specific, with no meaning besides being anti american in every way possible?

Or did these men have a legitimate grievance with the state of black rights in the united states, and felt that standing with their hands over their hearts singing the anthem to a country that denied them basic rights wasn't honest?

 

[IggyChooChoo]

Hence my specific differences between the Senate and the House. In the Senate, you're still being voted on by the whole state, so you're actually more likely, in a same party vs same party matchup, move towards the middle. But in a house district that you've gerrymandered; you don't have that group of voters to go for, since unless you are in the rare situation of jungle primaries, you aren't fighting over the other party's voters (since they will vote for their party's candidate in the general election). The real election is just in the primary of the dominant party.

I actually would love Jungle Primaries to be more common tbh. Jungle primaries are rare, so using Kamala isn't representative of the phenomenon.

My cousin wrote his senior thesis about jungle primaries in Louisiana. I know almost nothing about them, but my recollection is him telling me he thought they produced more extreme outcomes because you got candidates who appealed to militant pluralities rather than trying for majorities.

 

[Cybit]

California has quite a few Dem vs Dem house elections. I don't really know if there's any extreme ones.

Again, the Democrat base voter is far more moderate than the GOP one. That's the key here. Until I see evidence of the Democrat party base shifting far left ala the GOP base to the right, I can't accept your premise.

IIRC all CA and WA elections are top 2 instead of by party, right? If that's the case then you are aiming for all voters in an area in a general election - which pushes you towards the middle. Look at Dem races where it isn't top 2 in the general, and instead a normal primary race where the Dem will almost certainly beat a GOP challenger in the following general election.

 

[Toxi]

Well, put me on that list of people that disagree with you. Dissing the very concept of America is not the same as showing support for black people. Especially since (American) black people are an important and positive part of what makes America what it is.

The meaning, the "idea" that I ascribe to otherwise meaningless symbols like flags and anthems are that they are a stand-in for the "net value" of the country/state they represent. Median value? Goodness quotient? I not describing good. Basically, my fondness and/or respect for a particular state symbol is almost totally dependant on my opinion of the state itself. And perhaps more importantly, my opinion of the people that make up that state. Clearly, this requires one to be able to recognize that some Americans are real pieces of shit, while others are pretty awesome, and come to some hand-wavy conclusion about how that all balances out.

Do I think the USA is perfect? Ha! Of course not. There are shitbirds everywhere you look. Do I think America is, on balance and throughout its history, more of a good thing than a bad thing? I do. It's not as much of a slam dunk as I wish it was, but I do still think pretty highly of "America". ie, its people, its founding principles, its history, its restaurants, its moms, its music. All that crap, all rolled up. That's what people are acknowledging when they "salute" a flag or stand for an anthem.

So, when some millionaire jock decides to publicly and pointedly disrespect one of the primary the symbols of America, in my mind he is disrespecting the overall *concept* of America, the people of America, essentially everything about America. That's tarring with a ludicrously wide brush. It's such an utterly non-specific "protest" that it has no real meaning other than to just be, literally, anti-American in the broadest sense possible.

I kind of doubt Kaep is rabidly un-American. I feel it's more likely that he's upset about a particular dismaying aspect of America that he recently heard about on the twitter. (He's so socially aware. It's dreamy!) The issue of blacks getting shot by cops in a seemingly offhand way is one that I whole-heartedly agree needs to be addressed, like yesterday. Fuck bigoted white people. Fuck cowardly cops. However, America isn't just the shitbags like them. That flag isn't just their flag. That anthem isn't about them.

So in the end I find his inability to translate his outrage into something just a bit more specific than giving the finger to every American, living or dead, and to all that they aspired or stood for, more than a little lazy. And counterproductive. And frankly, insulting.

TLDR: I agree with Kaep's grievances, I disagree with his "fuck all' you all" method of expressing them. Fuck you too, Kaep. Fuck you too.

Kaepernick sat down during a song because people are getting shot.

A flag is just a piece of cloth, an anthem is just a song. The people who live here are what matter. And Kaepernick was trying to bring attention to those people getting shot. You want him to show respect for this country? Then this country should earn that respect by focusing on what actually matters.

 

[Bowdz]

Damn, Foreign Policy's endorsement (1st they've ever made apparently) is a doozy.



http://foreignpolicy.com/2016/10/09...y-clinton-for-president-of-the-united-states/

Yeah, I just read it and goddamn do they go in on Trump. I love the last line about how Clinton will already have accomplished a major victory foreign policy wise when she beats Donald because of how big a threat he is to the country.

 

[Cybit]

My cousin wrote his senior thesis about jungle primaries in Louisiana. I know almost nothing about them, but my recollection is him telling me he thought they produced more extreme outcomes because you got candidates who appealed to militant pluralities rather than trying for majorities.

I might be using jungle primaries and top 2 interchangeably when I shouldn't be. :-/

 

[Loudninja]

Lol RNC locked themselves to Trump,this is good.

 

[Plinko]

John Harwood ‏@JohnJHarwood 20m20 minutes ago

Gingrich, denying changing America gives Democrats upper-hand 1/2: "GOP has majority of govs/most legislators ever/majorities in Congress"

Newt Gingrich on GOP's clout in 21st-Century America: "why are we the ones with a demographic problem? this is a Washington fantasy."

Oh, yes. Please, GOP. Keep up this belief as long as you can.

 

[Kusagari]

Well, put me on that list of people that disagree with you. Dissing the very concept of America is not the same as showing support for black people. Especially since (American) black people are an important and positive part of what makes America what it is.

The meaning, the "idea" that I ascribe to otherwise meaningless symbols like flags and anthems are that they are a stand-in for the "net value" of the country/state they represent. Median value? Goodness quotient? I not describing good. Basically, my fondness and/or respect for a particular state symbol is almost totally dependant on my opinion of the state itself. And perhaps more importantly, my opinion of the people that make up that state. Clearly, this requires one to be able to recognize that some Americans are real pieces of shit, while others are pretty awesome, and come to some hand-wavy conclusion about how that all balances out.

Do I think the USA is perfect? Ha! Of course not. There are shitbirds everywhere you look. Do I think America is, on balance and throughout its history, more of a good thing than a bad thing? I do. It's not as much of a slam dunk as I wish it was, but I do still think pretty highly of "America". ie, its people, its founding principles, its history, its restaurants, its moms, its music. All that crap, all rolled up. That's what people are acknowledging when they "salute" a flag or stand for an anthem.

So, when some millionaire jock decides to publicly and pointedly disrespect one of the primary the symbols of America, in my mind he is disrespecting the overall *concept* of America, the people of America, essentially everything about America. That's tarring with a ludicrously wide brush. It's such an utterly non-specific "protest" that it has no real meaning other than to just be, literally, anti-American in the broadest sense possible.

I kind of doubt Kaep is rabidly un-American. I feel it's more likely that he's upset about a particular dismaying aspect of America that he recently heard about on the twitter. (He's so socially aware. It's dreamy!) The issue of blacks getting shot by cops in a seemingly offhand way is one that I whole-heartedly agree needs to be addressed, like yesterday. Fuck bigoted white people. Fuck cowardly cops. However, America isn't just the shitbags like them. That flag isn't just their flag. That anthem isn't about them.

So in the end I find his inability to translate his outrage into something just a bit more specific than giving the finger to every American, living or dead, and to all that they aspired or stood for, more than a little lazy. And counterproductive. And frankly, insulting.

TLDR: I agree with Kaep's grievances, I disagree with his "fuck all' you all" method of expressing them. Fuck you too, Kaep. Fuck you too.

The flag is a piece of cloth created when everyone except wealthy male white land owners were seen as worthless in this country.

 

[Boke1879]

Oh, yes. Please, GOP. Keep up this belief as long as you can.

They will never truly learn will they?

 

[Amir0x]

Damn, Foreign Policy's endorsement (1st they've ever made apparently) is a doozy.



http://foreignpolicy.com/2016/10/09...y-clinton-for-president-of-the-united-states/

The worst major party candidate this country has EVER produced. Goddamn.

 

[Toxi]

Oh, yes. Please, GOP. Keep up this belief as long as you can.

2016 post-mortem is gonna be good.

 

[HylianTom]

Oh, yes. Please, GOP. Keep up this belief as long as you can.

Wooooooooow.

I should've be surprised that the party that's hostile to science is also hostile to math, but..

Wooooooooow.

 

[AntraxSuicide]

"Today, we delivered nearly $34 million to the state Treasury recovered by my office, and I encourage the Mississippi Legislature to use the money to offset budget shortfalls for vital state services.
Hopefully, this will undo some of the damage inflicted to agency budgets because of state leaders’ untimely devotion to tax breaks for big businesses.

Those misguided corporate tax cuts along with the problems associated with Senate Bill 2362 and the Legislature’s mathematical error have led to a reduction of beds at the State Hospital, layoffs at the Department of Revenue and the Forestry Commission, and closure of National Guard armories. Lawmakers will fall far short of collecting the $188 million that they anticipated collecting in the special funds sweep, and I’m concerned that there are more significant budget cuts ahead.

My office has recovered more than $3 billion from corporations that have harmed Mississippi consumers. Legislators should use the money received today to make sure those same Mississippi consumers are not harmed further by an inability of state government to meet their day-to-day needs.

The majority of the $33,951,305 delivered to the Treasury is from a judgment against pharmaceutical manufacturer Sandoz Inc., which defrauded the state by manipulating the prices it charged for its drugs to the state Medicaid program." Attorney General Jim Hood, MS.

God this guy needs to run for governor.

 

[Black Mamba]

IIRC all CA and WA elections are top 2 instead of by party, right? If that's the case then you are aiming for all voters in an area in a general election - which pushes you towards the middle. Look at Dem races where it isn't top 2 in the general, and instead a normal primary race where the Dem will almost certainly beat a GOP challenger in the following general election.

Okay. Can you find me these districts where you could argue the eventual winner is anything like a Freedom Caucus member?

What House Democrats absolutely refuse to negotiate on anything? What House Democrat isn't controlled by Nancy Pelosi?

I understand your argument. And it's correct....when the base is extreme. But the Democrat base isn't. It's moderate. Still. Things can change, but we're still a ways away.

edit: Put it this way. In a major Democrat district primary, the moderate Dem beats the far left Dem in most cases. Not true on the GOP side.

 

[Plinko]

2016 post-mortem is gonna be good.

See, and that's the thing. They actually HAD a good post-mortem after 2012. Tone down the rhetoric. Reach out to minorities. But they threw it all away because they wanted to get behind Trump.

It is going to be fascinating if there even is a moment where they look back and try to fix the problems after this election. I'm not sure there even is a fix at this point unless the RNC actively discourages any alt-right/racist candidates to get in the race for 2020.

 

[Amir0x]

I wonder if there will ever be a day Republicans feel a sense of shame.

 

[HylianTom]

Speaking of not learning lessons from 2012:

NYT's Trip Gabriel:

Of 25-30 folks I spoke w among thousands awaiting Trump in Pa., all think he will win. They don't believe the polls. 'Look at this crowd'

 

[NYCmetsfan]

Kaepernick sat down during a song because people are getting shot.

A flag is just a piece of cloth, an anthem is just a song. The people who live here are what matter. And Kaepernick was trying to bring attention to those people getting shot. You want him to show respect for this country? Then this country should earn that respect.

Just responding to you:

So some people its not. I think the protest is valid but so are reservations (not tomis little "you have nothing to complain about")

I don't think its fair to say peoples reaction to that is the same as them dismissing black lives and I think Colin's choice and method will always bring this . And I think he's made comments that he understands these feelings, hasn't he?

 

[whyamihere]

Speaking of not learning lessons from 2012:

NYT's Trip Gabriel:

a ha

 

[Bowdz]

I wonder if there will ever be a day Republicans feel a sense of shame.

Those not running the show: absolutely.
Those in control of the party: never.

 

[Plinko]

Speaking of not learning lessons from 2012:

NYT's Trip Gabriel:

This is my major worry with America right now. Way, way too many people can only see what is right in front of them.

 

[NYCmetsfan]

Speaking of not learning lessons from 2012:

NYT's Trip Gabriel:

This is an amazing thread too

https://twitter.com/steveniweiss/status/785569970889617409

 

[Loudninja]

Speaking of not learning lessons from 2012:

NYT's Trip Gabriel:

What is with people and crowd sizes.

 

[Basileus777]

Apparently the Trump Virginia chairman that got fired intends to run for Governor in 2017.

With his actions Monday, Stewart could endear himself to conservative Republicans as he seeks his party’s nomination for governor in 2017. But the strategy is not without risks, particularly since the GOP has decided to pick its nominee in a statewide primary, whichtends to favor more moderate candidates, instead of a closed convention.

As the elected chairman of the Prince William Board of Supervisors, Stewart drew national attention a decade ago promoting a crackdown on undocumented immigrants, a policy that presaged the tempest caused by Trump’s own anti-immigrant barbs. At his urging, Prince William authorized police officers to check the immigration status of anyone they detained. After a public uproar, the county watered down the policy so that an immigration check would be done only after an arrest.

“I was Trump before Trump was Trump,” Stewart has frequently boasted.

What a gift he would be as the nominee.

 

[StoOgE]

Speaking of not learning lessons from 2012:

NYT's Trip Gabriel:

Just like how Bernie won the primary with them crowds, right?

 

[Boke1879]

This is my major worry with America right now. Way, way too many people can only see what is right in front of them.

Yup if Trump loses these people won't believe it. They think crowd sizes is the barometer. They don't believe in polls or data. So when Hillary wins and we hopefully make gains in the house and senate. Trump will parade is "rigged" narrative and these people will believe.

The GOP created a monster

 

[Bam Bam Baklava]

@tripgabriel

"We're deplorablllllleeee,'' Giuliani screams. "I love it"

 

[StopMakingSense]

Speaking of not learning lessons from 2012:

NYT's Trip Gabriel:

Gonna be some ugly reckoning come November. Kinda scary, actually.

 

[NYCmetsfan]

The flag is a piece of cloth created when everyone except wealthy male white land owners were seen as worthless in this country.

This is true, but symbols change too (ask the swastiza, the Shahada, cross with the KKK, ichthys)!

And people hold different values based on them. I think its bad to dictate how someone must feel. These symbols mean a lot to people and they're not saying other peoples lives don't matter when they're upset, especially since many believe the symbol can stand for those rights.

Its a complex phenomena.

 

[Plinko]

@tripgabriel

"We're deplorablllllleeee,'' Giuliani screams. "I love it"

At least they're finally honest about it.

 

[Aaronology]

Do I think the USA is perfect? Ha! Of course not. There are shitbirds everywhere you look. Do I think America is, on balance and throughout its history, more of a good thing than a bad thing? I do. It's not as much of a slam dunk as I wish it was, but I do still think pretty highly of "America". ie, its people, its founding principles, its history, its restaurants, its moms, its music. All that crap, all rolled up. That's what people are acknowledging when they "salute" a flag or stand for an anthem.

This is not about how you feel about America, Ding. Your worldview is a luxury and citing it is an admission, intentional or not, that you haven't truly acknowledged the subset of Americans who are treated as second class citizens and consequently do not share and have no reason to share your overall positive opinion of this country.

Your post, summed up, is basically "but America is great which is why you should not protest against symbols that represent all of that greatness! " while the entire point is that America is not great to everyone.

This is the problem with sympathy without empathy. It's too often tone deaf and blind. It's nice and all that you agree with our "grievances" but it would be even better if you actually understood them.

 

[thezerofire]

This is an amazing thread too

https://twitter.com/steveniweiss/status/785569970889617409

dang that is really good, the internal vs. external truths bit.

 

[mo60]

Apparently the Trump Virginia chairman that got fired intends to run for Governor in 2017.



What a gift he would be as the nominee.

He would be destroyed by whoever is the dem nominee in 2017.

 

[NYCmetsfan]

He would be destroyed bywhoever is the dem nominee in 2017.

tom perriello if he doesn't run for senate

 

[mstevens]

This is what that O'Keefe said at the end of Sept

James O'Keefe ‏@JamesOKeefeIII Sep 28
James O'Keefe Retweeted Melissa Gott
Wrong. We have tape of them demeaning and disparaging black people in the worst ways. That will matter. Coming in October.


______________

That would be extremely disappointing (not to mention problematic for the election). Hopefully it's just some idiot intern and not Hillary, if the tapes are real.

 

[Amir0x]

Yeah he has that tape alright

 

[watershed]

I knew the Republican conference call would be a green light for downticket republicans go run away from Trump. He didn't do nearly enough last night to stop the bleeding. In some ways, he made things worse.

 

[pigeon]

This is what that O'Keefe said at the end of Sept

James O'Keefe ‏@JamesOKeefeIII Sep 28
James O'Keefe Retweeted Melissa Gott
Wrong. We have tape of them demeaning and disparaging black people in the worst ways. That will matter. Coming in October.


______________

That would be extremely disappointing (not to mention problematic for the election). Hopefully it's just some idiot intern and not Hillary, if the tapes are real.

O'Keefe is just a scam artist. I wouldn't worry about this guy.

 

[Black Mamba]

In the latest sign of the GOP’s loosening grip on Florida’s Cuban-American community, a prominent Miami-based group of Hispanic builders is endorsing the Democratic presidential nominee for the first time in its 45-year history, according to people familiar with the decision.

The support from the Latin Builders Association gives Hillary Clinton a symbolic boost before her visit to Miami on Tuesday, and it puts a damper on a two-day trip by Republican nominee Donald Trump this week through the nation’s largest swing state.

http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2016/10/10/prominent-cuban-american-trade-group-endorses-clinton/

Hello darkness, my old friend
I've come to talk with you again
Because a vision softly creeping
Left its seeds while I was sleeping
And the vision that was planted in my brain
Still remains
Within the sound of silence

 

[Bam Bam Baklava]

This is what that O'Keefe said at the end of Sept

James O'Keefe ‏@JamesOKeefeIII Sep 28
James O'Keefe Retweeted Melissa Gott
Wrong. We have tape of them demeaning and disparaging black people in the worst ways. That will matter. Coming in October.


______________

That would be extremely disappointing (not to mention problematic for the election). Hopefully it's just some idiot intern and not Hillary, if the tapes are real.

Yes, let's believe the person who was caught doctoring video tapes. Why not, gotta have something to worry about right?

The whitey tape is coming soon too.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

This is what that O'Keefe said at the end of Sept

James O'Keefe ‏@JamesOKeefeIII Sep 28
James O'Keefe Retweeted Melissa Gott
Wrong. We have tape of them demeaning and disparaging black people in the worst ways. That will matter. Coming in October.


______________

That would be extremely disappointing (not to mention problematic for the election). Hopefully it's just some idiot intern and not Hillary, if the tapes are real.

He's known for doctoring footage

 

[Roland_Gunner]

That would be extremely disappointing (not to mention problematic for the election). Hopefully it's just some idiot intern and not Hillary, if the tapes are real.

O'Keefe hasn't broken a story in eight years, and even that was doctored footage. Find something else to freak out about please.

 

[NYCmetsfan]

This is what that O'Keefe said at the end of Sept

James O'Keefe ‏@JamesOKeefeIII Sep 28
James O'Keefe Retweeted Melissa Gott
Wrong. We have tape of them demeaning and disparaging black people in the worst ways. That will matter. Coming in October.


______________

That would be extremely disappointing (not to mention problematic for the election). Hopefully it's just some idiot intern and not Hillary, if the tapes are real.

"them?" if its a staffer its nothing, they'll be fired and its likely out of context

 

[sturgboski]

What's the over under on Trumps family (sans Eric and Donald Jr) voting Clinton? I'm pretty sure from her reaction last night Tiffany is standing with her.

 

[Blader]

The problem with the GOP's 2012 post-mortem is that most Republicans didn't believe it then. Like Romney's polls, it's not what they wanted to hear, so they looked past it and punished Republicans in Congress for trying to do something about it (Eric Cantor being primary'd for his somehow not-tough-enough stance on immigration reform being a prime example).

Trump's nomination validated the base's belief that the post-mortem was bullshit and not worth listening to. And for many of these people, if Trump loses, it'll because of a rigged system, establishment elites, a dishonest media, etc. There'll be no incentive from the base for any kind of demographic-driven soul-searching, and consequently, the party as a whole will continued to be tied to their resistance to any kind of inclusiveness.

 

[Slime]

Speaking of not learning lessons from 2012:

NYT's Trip Gabriel:

The one upside of right-wingers' aversion to facts: it's entertaining to see them melt down when their version of reality crumbles.

2012 was hilarious.