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PoliGAF 2016 |OT13| For Queen and Country

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A

Aaron Strife

Banned
I'm sure this was posted further back but

senior GOP Senate strategist: "Trump now tied in Indiana. down 11 in PA and 14 in NH. going down hard"
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giphy.gif
 
P

pigeon

Banned
Respect to Paskil, but at this point it's clear that Heavy supports a white nationalist sex offender to run America and refuses to engage on any of it. I don't believe it's worth responding to his posts at all. Why bother?
 
A

Aaron Strife

Banned
Former Utah gov. Jon Huntsman looking to run for Senate seat in 2018 - as an independent

One name bubbling to the top of political conversations in Utah is former Gov. Jon Huntsman, Jr. There's quite a bit of chatter that Huntsman, who left the governor's mansion in 2009 to become Ambassador to China in the first Obama administration, is planning on moving back to Utah from Washington, D. C. to mount his campaign.

But, there's a twist to Huntsman's rumored candidacy. If he runs, sources tell UtahPolicy.com he is likely to do it as an independent candidate, instead of a Republican. That makes some sense. Huntsman is the co-chair of the "No Labels" group, which urges politicians to eschew partisan politics to work for the greater good.

If Huntsman runs as an independent, he would immediately be a front-runner in the race. When Huntsman left office in 2009, he had extremely high approval ratings, and his candidacy would attract moderate Republicans, independent voters, and Democrats. That could prove to be a potent electoral combination.

The fact that Huntsman's brother owns the Salt Lake Tribune wouldn't hurt his chances either. It always helps a political campaign to have the media in your corner.
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I wonder if a McMullin victory in Utah would embolden him.

If Huntsman does run Democrats should just not contest the seat - he's probably the best they could hope for.
 
Y

Y2Kev

TLG Fan Caretaker Est. 2009
Every day Trump spends in PA and VA is a day he isn't in OH.

I will give him credit for doing so many rallies. But I guess he can afford that when he's not doing like...fundraising, organizing, debate prep, or anything.
 
R

rjinaz

Member
pigeon said:
Respect to Paskil, but at this point it's clear that Heavy supports a white nationalist sex offender to run America and refuses to engage on any of it. I don't believe it's worth responding to his posts at all. Why bother?
Click to expand...

Definitely not worth getting banned over this close to election. Nobody is worth that. Who really won with that post he made? I don't think Paskil. Sorry Paskil.
 
B

Boke1879

Member
Y2Kev said:
Every day Trump spends in PA and VA is a day he isn't in OH.

I will give him credit for doing so many rallies. But I guess he can afford that when he's not doing like...fundraising, organizing, debate prep, or anything.
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It's also a day he isn't in Florida. He HAS to do these rallies really. He has no surrogates and no one gives a damn what Mike Pence has to say.
 
V

Veelk

Banned
studyguy said:
AHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAH



That sad pat on the man as he walked away says it all.
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Oh yeah, stick to the issues. The issues that Hillary Goddamn Rodham Clinton educates herself all day, every day.

I mean, I get that they want Trump to stop being a jackass, but he had multiple chances to attack issues, and jesus christ almighty, did Hillary take him to town whenever he did.
 
S

Suikoguy

I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
Boke1879 said:
It's also a day he isn't in Florida. He HAS to do these rallies really. He has no surrogates and no one gives a damn what Mike Pence has to say.
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I'm 100% sure he regrets picking (letting his campaign staff push him into picking) Pence considering he ended up going full Fascist.
 
phisheep

phisheep

NeoGAF's Chief Barrister
Blader said:
Not sure which is the greater dissonance here: hating Hillary for being a liar who's just trying to hustle votes while holding out hope that Trump's rhetoric is just lies to hustle votes OR complaining about how the GOP has to pander to bigots to win the presidency while wholeheartedly supporting the most exclusionary presidential candidate since George Wallace.
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Probably the most succinct summary of this campaign I have seen. Thank you.
 
S

Sianos

Member
pigeon said:
Respect to Paskil, but at this point it's clear that Heavy supports a white nationalist sex offender to run America and refuses to engage on any of it. I don't believe it's worth responding to his posts at all. Why bother?
Click to expand...

At least we can use him as a learning experience:

"The pathos gambit (also reverse appeal to emotion) is a logical fallacy in which one debater falsely claims that their opponent is using emotional arguments (pathos) rather than factual arguments (logos). Emotional arguments are quite obviously not logically sound, and are a whole class of fallacies themselves. However, the pathos gambit poisons the well by painting an opponent as too emotional/biased to approach a subject rationally — while, presumably, the gambit-maker is a bastion of Vulcan reason. Unfortunately, it is easier to paint someone as emotional/biased than to scrub off said paint.

The gambit is an informal fallacy. It is valid only if:

The opponent is so emotional/biased that they cannot step back and examine facts rationally. This is very difficult to prove in most casual encounters and the burden of proof rests with the accuser — not the accused. It can take years for people to truly get to know each other. Assuming that a few minutes of interaction (especially text-only, online interaction) with someone are sufficient to fully understand their intentions and their thought process comes dangerously close to fallacious Broderism.

Or:

The opponent's arguments are substantially based on how certain things make them feel. Notably, this is not the same as mentioning one's feelings on an issue (ie, "X is dumb because Y and makes me feel sad") — this is saying that one's feelings necessarily prove some conclusion, independent of the facts (ie, "X is dumb because X makes me feel sad").

Strong form:

P1: [X]'s arguments are based on [X]'s feelings about the issue and have no supporting facts.
P2: (unstated, but valid) Arguments based only in emotion are false.
C1: [X]'s arguments are false.

Whether the argument is fallacious rests on whether P1 is true. If P1 is true, then [X] has committed an appeal to emotion and their arguments fall. If P1 is false, however, then accusing them of an appeal to emotion is fallacious.

Weak form:

P1: While presenting their arguments, [X] was emotional in some way (used emotional language, gestures, etc.).
P2: (unstated) Arguments stated by an emotional person are false.
C1: [X]'s arguments are false.

This form is very difficult to uphold. There are very few cases (especially in terms of Internet debates) in which someone is so extremely emotional that their testimony can be completely discounted for that reason alone. This is even more true if the person has factual, sourced statements around which they are basing their emotion — in which case, their emotions shouldn't even be the substance of the debate."

Source. It even has an example section where it points out this fallacy in that infamous Stephen Fry image macro!
 
R

rjinaz

Member
phisheep said:
Probably the most succinct summary of this campaign I have seen. Thank you.
Click to expand...

It really is something isn't it? The logic people have put on display for the last year in order to support Trump has been truly fascinating. "He tells it like it is! Well except he really doesn't it, he's just saying that to get votes".

Many Americans are in a very strange place right now mentally. And I don't think it's a healthy place.
 
K

Kangi

Member
Random musing.

I wonder how much more #WhiteGenocide, (((journalists))) out to get us, being hailed by David Duke, etc. sludge WikiLeaks has to churn out before far lefties realize that WL has more in common with neo-Nazis than just a mutual hatred of Hillary. Or are they too close to the other end of the horseshoe for it to matter?
 
N

newshinycd

Member
pigeon said:
Respect to Paskil, but at this point it's clear that Heavy supports a white nationalist sex offender to run America and refuses to engage on any of it. I don't believe it's worth responding to his posts at all. Why bother?
Click to expand...

I've gone into full unabashed, unapologetic liberal mode.

It's like the saying goes "you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink." I'm done trying to explain why Trump is a narcissistic asswipe. I'm done trying to explain why Hillary isn't "literally the devil". These people have drunk the conspiracy koolaid created by Limbaugh, Breitbart, etc. They want nothing to do with reality or facts.
 
R

rjinaz

Member
newshinycd said:
I've gone into full unabashed, unapologetic liberal mode.

It's like the saying goes "you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink." I'm done trying to explain why Trump is a narcissistic asswipe. I'm done trying to explain why Hillary isn't "literally the devil". These people have drunk the conspiracy koolaid created by Limbaugh, Breitbart, etc. They want nothing to do with reality or facts.
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Polling has shown that this is over. There are two weeks left until the election. Time to let the emotions go at this point. The fight is over. Yes the war continues on with midterms and the like, but for now, time to vote. Vote early if you can like I did, but then sit back and have a cold one and watch it all unfold with a smile on your face.

This is how I am going to go forward now anyway. I myself have been far too emotional.
 
S

Suikoguy

I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
Boke1879 said:
I always thought Pence was his best choice. Someone like Newt I feel he would have butted heads with often.
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But, he has been totally useless.

It made sense at the time, but, like I said that's before he went full fascist. Unless the point was to pick someone who could appease old guard Republicans and be totally useless. Hmm..
 
Y

Y2Kev

TLG Fan Caretaker Est. 2009
I love early voting lines. I mean I hate the lines but I think it's great people can't wait to get this fucking turd out of the national spotlight!

Zackat said:
Is it really that bad? I haven't listened yet.
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I guess it's not bad PER SE but it's like...if you became a fan of gaga's great pop music you'll listen to this and wonder what the fuck
 
I

Iolo

Member
Y2Kev said:
Every day Trump spends in PA and VA is a day he isn't in OH.

I will give him credit for doing so many rallies. But I guess he can afford that when he's not doing like...fundraising, organizing, debate prep, or anything.
Click to expand...

At the same time, that packed rally schedule can't be good for his health, such as it is. He could wind up in the hospital.
 
B

Bonen no Max'd

Banned
Huntsman probably is a shithead but I like the theory that he supported Trump because he hoped it would end the GOP. Or the "just really fucking hates Romney" theory.
 
G

Grief.exe

Member
The Documentary 'Weiner' featuring future Chief of Staff and Goddess Huma Abedin's ex-husband's failed Mayoral bid has its TV debut on Showtime tonight.

Vox has a really positive recommendation for it.

http://www.vox.com/2016/8/31/12699356

weiner.0.jpg


ItWasMeantToBe19 said:
This map is fun.

350px-ElectoralCollege1860.svg.png


Texas, California, and Florida made up 11 total EVs in 1860 (303 EVs total). lol.

Other than trading Maryland for Indiana, Lincoln had a pretty classic modern Democratic victory map though.
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So much has changed, yet not that much.
 
C

Carpe Carnim

Member
rjinaz said:
It really is something isn't it? The logic people have put on display for the last year in order to support Trump has been truly fascinating. "He tells it like it is! Well except he really doesn't it, he's just saying that to get votes".

Many Americans are in a very strange place right now mentally. And I don't think it's a healthy place.
Click to expand...

Despite what Twitter eggs and 4Chan memesters try to portray, supporting Trump at this point is a feelz above realz proposition. Let's lay aside the fact he has no coherent, consistent policies.

I am left with one constant: It's US vs. The World. That's an attractive thought for folks who think they're put-upon and righteous martyrs. It also happens to be similar to the thought process of suicide bombers. When you no longer have to realistically justify your stated positions, you're free to extract maximum damage from folks you classify as your enemies.

Basically...
1324596542030_7713053.png
 
N

NeoXChaos

Member
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/23/o...o-midwest-young-hipster.html?ref=opinion&_r=0

Interesting article on House, Senate, Geography and Gerrymaderying.

Clustering is part of the problem. All those Democrats gravitating to blue strongholds like New York and California get the party no more Senate seats than Republicans get from Idaho and from Wyoming, a state with a population of about 580,000, slightly more than Fresno, Calif. If the Democrats are going to gain a lasting hold on the Senate, they have to win seats in swing states. But that gets harder the more that Democratic-leaning voters flock to big, blue states, abandoning swing states like Ohio, where the Republican Rob Portman is gliding to re-election, or smaller red states where Democrats might still have a shot at holding Senate seats, like Montana, Indiana or North Dakota.

Jenn Topper has thought about this dynamic a lot, because she’s a clear example of it. Ms. Topper, 31, grew up in Beavercreek, Ohio, a suburb of Dayton, a city that has lost nearly half its population since 1960. She left for college at Florida State, then for a public relations job in New York, then for a political communications job in Washington.

“When you grow up in Ohio, there’s a bigger world out there, and if you know about it, you just want to go to it,” she said.

A couple of years ago, Ms. Topper and some colleagues who were also from Ohio were excited to meet “their” Democratic senator, Sherrod Brown, at an event. He asked them where they lived in Ohio. But they don’t live in Ohio — and won’t be able to vote for him in what is sure to be a tough race in 2018.
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Ms. Topper’s high school classmate Brett Stelter, 31, left Dayton after attending Ohio University. His father was a district parts manager for Honda, which has a plant near Dayton, and Mr. Stelter himself did part-time work at the plant. But his dream was to be an actor, and so he ended up in Los Angeles.

“There’s just nothing to do in Ohio,” he said. “The jobs are limited, but it’s not just the jobs and the industries that are in Ohio, it’s the mind-set that I didn’t gravitate to.”
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--

Of course, some people do go back. Brittney Vosters, 30, who went to high school and college in Dayton, left for several years, living in Chicago and enrolling in graduate school in public administration at Rutgers in New Jersey. She recently moved back to Cincinnati so her husband could go to graduate school in northern Kentucky. It has struck her how much her former Dayton classmates have sorted out politically. “It’s noticeable that the people who left are more liberal-minded and the people who stayed are more Republican,” she said.
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H

Holmes

Member
Qwerty710710 said:
It's almost criminal what their doing. One county only has one polling station for the whole county.
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I know. But they're only inhibiting people from voting early - they'll still show up on election day if they're unable to do it early. And lines will be long. McCrory's days are numbered.
 
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