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[elvisaintdead]

I know that feeling. I stopped coming to poligaf because of the proliferation of posts claiming Clinton was a better choice than Bernie because pragmatism/centrism wins elections, (in a year where the vast majority of the country hates congress/politicians/wall street?? somehow?).

It's more complicated than that. Bernie had skeletons that could be dug up, that Clinton didn't touch. Bernie's self-describing of being Socialist presents a problem for him also, as we just learned that America is really really bad at having nuanced conversations about policy. "Crazy Bernie" becomes "Commie Bernie" and who knows how the white people who voted for Trump react to that?

Certainly Bernie could have won, but nearly every qualified expert in the country assumed Clinton was winning 12 hours ago. Bernie would need to outperform the data in the same way Trump did, and it didn't make sense at the time to assume that the data regarding experience/centrism was wrong.

Also, I don't think people dragging their feet and going "UGH, fine, I'll vote for her" helped anything.

Anyway, this is my last post on the Bernie general bid that never was. It annoyed me enough on Reddit to get into it a couple of times there as well, but I realize that it's a conversation that helps no one.

 

[FyreWulff]

Realistically how many SC seats did the GOP just gain? Scalia's is lost to us now; how many more will open up in the next four years if liberal justices try to hold out?

if they can all stay alive and midterms/2020 goes the Dem's way, GOP only save Scalia's spot and maybe swap clarence thomas for a similar person if he decides to strategically retire

even if RBG makes it to the next dem president, she still wouldn't be the oldest SC judge in history

 

[Veelk]

Since people are talking about Hillary, I'll say this.

I still believe that she was the best presidential candidate to have ran this election. I really don't understand why she lost, with all the data supporting her..but she did. Would another candidate have done better? I don't know. I'm only a novice in the political field, and even experts here had no idea what was going on. Trying to definitely say "Trump would be sure to lose if... " seems to fly in the face of everything that's happened this election.

All I can say is that the deplorable gaffe aside, I seriously don't see what she could have done differently. She put together the most progressive platform. She reached out. She won the debates. Ran a mostly honest campaign.

I can't imagine what she must be feeling right now. But she did her best. She did everything she could. You can't ask more from anybody than that.

 

[Fox318]

I feel like a Republican in 2008... how do we make him a one termer?

I knew republicans that voted McCain that were optimistic about Obama.

This is 2004 .

 

[Angry Fork]

A socialist Jew is not the answer to Trump's (now appearing to be decisive but limited) rural white surge. His economic policies might have turned off suburban independents, too.

It's pointless speculation.

It's pointless now since it's over but I don't think we're wrong on this, and it does matter for the future.

If we want the dem party to actually win can we just start thinking about alternative policies/tactics/candidates that legitimately appeal to working people (regardless of race). Preferably delivered by principled people who don't say the opposite behind closed doors to rich donors or have a decade+ history of flip flopping.

 

[Sianos]

I'm crying and I'm drinking.

This is a new one for me. I'm drinking. My fathers and alcoholic. And abusive one. And here I am. I'm no better than him. fuck me. fuck me. my brother drinks, causes problems because of it. here I am. I'm drinking. Half bottle of vodka down. oh my god.

This is a low point for America. The lowest we've had in a long time. I believe the tweet pointing out how the first black president is being seceded by a man endorsed by the KKK captures just how low this is.

Drinking after such a tragic moment doesn't make you an alcoholic, it makes you human. Soon we'll begin to pick up the pieces, but for now it's okay to mourn.

 

[SenorArdilla]

Every time I hear "both candidates are the same" I want to bang my head on a flat surface.

 

[KingBroly]

Da fuk? Stevens is long gone brah.

then who am I thinking of?

 

[Sibylus]

Fighting back desperate laughter and tears. My family could be torn apart now. Everything.

 

[Psychoward]

The economy is doing great, Obama has an excellent approval rating. America is succeeding.

I don't think Bernie would have done any better.

I don't think we made any wrong choices. The tweet from Nate Cohn about white voters voting as a minority bloc sums it up. There were millions of white voters out there who didn't turn out for McCain and didn't turn out for Romney because they WEREN'T RACIST ENOUGH. They wanted a candidate more terrible, more dangerous, and more evil.

They found him.

It would've been nice to know in advance, but frankly, knowing that America is full of Nazis BEFORE they elect Idiot Hitler would probably have been worse than only finding out now.

I thought gop turnout was basically the same as it was in 2012, it's just Dem turnout was much lower?

 

[jmdajr]

Fuck. Still awake.

 

[DontBeThatGuy]

It does seem that rural, white america numbers are way the fuck up.for Trump. I WONDER WHY. (Yep, I'm back on that bandwagon)

 

[The Technomancer]

Since people are talking about Hillary, I'll say this.

I still believe that she was the best presidential candidate to have ran this election. I really don't understand why she lost, with all the data supporting her..but she did. Would another candidate have done better? I don't know. I'm only a novice in the political field, and even experts here had no idea what was going on. Trying to definitely say "Trump would be sure to lose if... " seems to fly in the face of everything that's happened this election.

All I can say is that the deplorable gaffe aside, I seriously don't see what she could have done differently. She put together the most progressive platform. She reached out. She won the debates. Ran a mostly honest campaign.

I can't imagine what she must be feeling right now. But she did her best. She did everything she could. You can't ask more from anybody than that.

.

I'm going to bed. I feel sick and miserable and dead inside

 

[bachikarn]

I disagree. Voters stayed home because they didn't feel "100%" behind the nominee. They felt that they "weren't being represented" because they disagreed with one or two things Hillary had said or done.

Meanwhile, Republicans line up behind Trump because they agree with one or two policies. They line up behind him because, unlike idealistic democrats, they actually vote and know what a vote means and how powerful it can be, despite the fact they may have issues with their candidate.

If Democratic turnout was low, it's because of voters, full stop. Dems ran the most inclusive campaign I've seen, both in policy and in practice. It's not their fault people don't turn out because Hillary voted for the Iraq war a decade ago, or her husband voted for NAFTA, or whatever the fuck it was they took issue with.

Idealism and feeling "morally pure" don't mean shit when you're willing to give up the keys to the castle to a orange fuckwit. It's just words and a fleeting sense of misguided self-respect....and we're all going to pay for it.

Unfortunately Clinton was not exciting, and they believed the propaganda from Republicans. I'm not sure you can just say liberals were just being 'morally pure.' They didn't do that with Obama.

The reality is that Clinton was probably just an unappealing candidate. I liked her a lot, but seems like that might be the case. It was easier for them to be 'morally pure,' because they just didn't like her.

 

[ZealousD]

It's more complicated than that. Bernie had skeletons that could be dug up, that Clinton didn't touch. Bernie's self-describing of being Socialist presents a problem for him also, as we just learned that America is really really bad at having nuanced conversations about policy. "Crazy Bernie" becomes "Commie Bernie" and who knows how the white people who voted for Trump react to that?

Certainly Bernie could have won, but nearly every qualified expert in the country assumed Clinton was winning 12 hours ago. Bernie would need to outperform the data in the same way Trump did, and it didn't make sense at the time to assume that the data regarding experience/centrism was wrong.

Also, I don't think people dragging their feet and going "UGH, fine, I'll vote for her" helped anything.

Anyway, this is my last post on the Bernie general bid that never was. It annoyed me enough on Reddit to get into it a couple of times there as well, but I realize that it's a conversation that helps no one.

If "socialist" was really an effective attack, they would have pinned that shit on Clinton. She worked with Bernie on things like debt-free college and she wanted to expand Obamacare. They used "crooked" because it was a far more effective smear.

 

[Black Mamba]

I think I'm going to cry.

 

[CrimzonSamurai]

Yeah I've been seeing a lot of this bullshit lately


Like we're supposed to apologize for them being racist because we caused them to vote Trump

Lol

I think the mistake is assuming that racism was the most motivating factor. Sure it's there, but these people didn't turn out to vote against Obama. They turned out to get revenge on the intellectual elite of both parties and because Trump was a shameless populist who promised way more than he could deliver even if his policies were actually solvent.

Democrats didn't turn out because their candidate failed their ideological purity test and also complacency.

Racism wasn't even enough to motivate Dems into a turnout backlash. If Republicans have proven racism can win as a platform then democrats have proven they won't fight it. In the end it always just becomes "what have you done for me lately?"

 

[benjipwns]

then who am I thinking of?

Kennedy is the only other Justice over 68. (He's 80.)

 

[sazzy]

How long will the high last that Donald's voters feel right now??

1 day? 1 week? A month?

 

[Toxi]

How long will the high last that Donald's voters feel right now??

1 day? 1 week? A month?

A year.

 

[Dan]

It's pointless now since it's over but I don't think we're wrong on this, and it does matter for the future.

If we want the dem party to actually win can we just start thinking about alternative policies/tactics/candidates that legitimately appeal to working people (regardless of race). Preferably delivered by principled people who don't say the opposite behind closed doors to rich donors or have a decade+ history of flip flopping.

That's an excuse to hate Hillary. Voters don't actually care about that, just look at Trump.

 

[JetBlackPanda]

So what job numbers are going to be all republicans hard work now.

 

[DontBeThatGuy]

How long will the high last that Donald's voters feel right now??

1 day? 1 week? A month?

24/7... This wave is infinite!

 

[Good Job Bob]

Chances Obama's favorability ratings tank after this?

 

[thehypocrite]

I disagree. Voters stayed home because they didn't feel "100%" behind the nominee. They felt that they "weren't being represented" because they disagreed with one or two things Hillary had said or done.

Meanwhile, Republicans line up behind Trump because they agree with one or two policies. They line up behind him because, unlike idealistic democrats, they actually vote and know what a vote means and how powerful it can be, despite the fact they may have issues with their candidate.

If Democratic turnout was low, it's because of voters, full stop. Dems ran the most inclusive campaign I've seen, both in policy and in practice. It's not their fault people don't turn out because Hillary voted for the Iraq war a decade ago, or her husband voted for NAFTA, or whatever the fuck it was they took issue with.

Idealism and feeling "morally pure" don't mean shit when you're willing to give up the keys to the castle to a orange fuckwit. It's just words and a fleeting sense of misguided self-respect....and we're all going to pay for it.

How not addressing the needs of your customers is a failure of your customer? If you need pure, idealistic candidates to generate turnout than fucking get them instead of trying to beat them into submission with what you want to offer.

Democrats know how to produce turnout but decided on pushing their own candidate cause relations and clout. Listen to your customer. If you put an inadequate product don't complain when the customers don't buy it if you were aware before hand that it wasn't adequate. You only have yourself to blame.

 

[witness]

Fuck. Still awake.

Yeah I slept for an hour and woke back up so 2 and still can't sleep. Work in 4 hours, Jesus.

 

[A Human Becoming]

I wonder if New Hampshire will get a recount.

 

[Bowdz]

then who am I thinking of?

Ginsberg and Breyer might be GOP replacements. Thomas and Kennedy might be replaced. Roberts, Alito, Sotomayor, and Kagan are not going anywhere.

 

[Oblivion]

Yo, Catherine Masto actually won? I heard MSNBC all the race for Heck a few hours ago.

 

[Randolph Freelander]

How long will the high last that Donald's voters feel right now??

1 day? 1 week? A month?

Right up until they lose their jobs along with the rest of us in the looming economic downturn.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

Chances Obama's favorability ratings tank after this?

They were probably already low and the polls were misreading the situation.

 

[BreezyLimbo]

You're not alone, if you can't sleep just keep posting. It's okay to get trashed tonight, doesn't make you an alchoholic. The world just became a worse place.

fdr and abe lincoln are my perpetual heroes

abe lincoln 16 president

kept the country together

fdr served 3 terms. 3 fucking terms and died in office. He was a beacon of light in darkness. I wrote a repot on him. I still have that report I did as a kid. He was my fucking hero. other people chose other people, but I cohse fdr. a paraplegic man who became president. Through some dishonesty in presenting himself and polio, but he fucking did it. He lead the us through world war 2. he told us nothing to fear but fear itself.

i ahve held that for along time. nothing to fear but fear itself. here we are. there are people who hate colored people like me. who hate minoriteis like me. who hate women. who hate lgbt. freddy mercury is one of my idols. he's gay. maybe bisexual, I don't know. all i know is that he would be sad at today.

these are people I idolize who have bene failed by america. my parents came to america for hope. i don't know there is no hope for me. hate crimes. hate crimes. hate crimes. blm is important. ehre we are. I'm wrecked. I'm horirble. I feel bad. I voted for clinton. she let us down.

I can't. ic acan't

I hate this i hate htis i hate his. I only hope he isn't as bad as can ben. the liberals have failed my people and minorites. fuck them all.

 

[Already Torn]

Yeah I slept for an hour and woke back up so 2 and still can't sleep. Work in 4 hours, Jesus.

Yuuuuup

 

[stupei]

That's an excuse to hate Hillary. Voters don't actually care about that, just look at Trump.

Be fair, liberals like to hold candidates to impossible standards that conservatives will never bother with. You can't really compare the two.

 

[Phased]

Chances Obama's favorability ratings tank after this?

Low to none I think. I don't think this was about Obama at all. It was a statement made against "political elites" and Clinton's are basically at the head of that demon, real or made up.

He'll probably leave office with his popularity intact. Hopefully he gets involved with internal DNC stuff. We badly need new leadership inside the party now.

 

[JetBlackPanda]

Right up until they lose their jobs along with the rest of us in the looming economic downturn.

I said that to a Trump guy and he came back with it was coming regardless thanks to 8 years of Liberal Obamas

 

[BoboBrazil]

Chris Matthews is such a shithead. He's so damn thrilled Trump won.

 

[kirblar]

They were probably already low and the polls were misreading the situation.

The same person who sits out this election also being someone who'd vote for Obama Term 3 is a thing.

 

[witness]

I need me a Corey Booker "we will rise" inspiring speech right now.

 

[Tubie]

I can't believe how right Michael Moore was.

 

[shinra-bansho]

his victory also coincides with democrats not turning out like they did for obama in 2008 and 2012. there might have been more voters out there for hillary, but they could have thought their states were safe, or they weren't enthusiastic about voting.

i'm talking about the midwest, mainly. i haven't compared other states like fl and nc. she would have won with the midwest though. that was the firewall and it turns out it didn't exist.

The extent of his victory though I'd say it wouldn't have been enough. It's not that tight a victory.

Also, people were questioning why they went to Michigan in the final days. This is presumably why.

 

[Iolo]

I can't sleep

Me either bro. 2.5 hours of wide awake in bed so far.

 

[Kid Heart]

Yuuuuup

I'm going to give sleep a chance in like half an hour. I'm glad I don't have work tomorrow.

 

[KingBroly]

Kennedy is the only other Justice over 68. (He's 80.)

Well probably him then since I was thinking 5.


But this event, this MIRACLE, will have books and movies made about it for decades to come. And people still won't understand how miraculous it was. Donald Trump. A businessman, a guy with no political background, no military history, destroyed 2 Political Parties, the media and everyone therein to win the Presidency. I don't even think I described how half insane that sounds.

 

[BronzeWolf]

Can't sleep.

I've got so much shit going on.

I just lost a whole fuckton of money

 

[benjipwns]

So what job numbers are going to be all republicans hard work now.

Uh, the Republicans have held the House for six years buddy. And Trump's campaign created retroactive momentum in anticipation.

 

[Piecake]

his victory also coincides with democrats not turning out like they did for obama in 2008 and 2012. there might have been more voters out there for hillary, but they could have thought their states were safe, or they weren't enthusiastic about voting.

i'm talking about the midwest, mainly. i haven't compared other states like fl and nc. she would have won with the midwest though. that was the firewall and it turns out it didn't exist.

That really isn't true about Pennsylvania, and the rest of the Midwest doesn't really matter if Pennsylvania is lost.

Clinton basically tied Obama's vote totals in North Carolina and exceeded Obama's vote totals in Florida by a pretty significant amount.

It is true that democratic voting is down in Minnesota, WI, and MI, but that didn't cost her the election thanks to Pennsylvania.

 

[Averon]

The DNC really needs to be purged. The Clinton "brand" is dead after tonight, so it is a great time for Spring cleaning.

 

[Maengun1]

Setting aside the fact that our country is going to be utterly fucked up...

what the fuck are elections now? what is polling? what is "ground game"? what are debates? what are ads? what is strategy???? nothing meant anything

I cannot believe this isn't fiction

 

[Makai]

is hillary not doing a speech?