Veritigo_X
Member
So we've got no one to run in 2020.
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PoliGAF 2016 |OT15| Orange is the New Black
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So we've got no one to run in 2020.
At this point no. Americans clearly don't vote based on policy or facts. They vote based on perception and "feelings". I don't know who the dems run in 2020 honestly.
I hate to say this, but right now the only thing I think sinks Trump and the GOP in 2020 is another recession or another major war.
balladofwindfishes
Member
They don't.
At this point H.W. is an anomaly. He's the only one who didn't run on charisma in the modern era to win. And that's because his competition was even more boring.
And honestly, maybe charisma has always mattered more than we'd like to admit. Charismatic presidents greatly outnumber bland one. People like Kennedy, FDR and TR were very charismatic and appealing to the common man (even if all three were ultra rich members of the elite and from wealthy, established families).
Yeah it got pushed to 10:30. Never edited my post, sorry.
http://www.nytimes.com/elections/results/new-hampshire-senate-ayotte-hassan
Hassan could pull it out.
I think we're going to get a centrist male Democrat in 2020 who will focus on rural voters. Anti-trade, little mention of social/criminal justice, focus on jobs and infrastructure. Basically Trump without the overt racism.
Hassan could pull it out.
I think we're going to get a centrist male Democrat in 2020 who will focus on rural voters. Anti-trade, little mention of social/criminal justice, focus on jobs and infrastructure. Basically Trump without the overt racism.
CreepingFear
Member
I'm wearing all black today to work. I'm in mourning.
A Link to the Past
Banned
I dunno if Gore or Kerry ran as a charismatic president, but I don't think they were very uncharismatic.
It's sad, but that might be the thing that we need to salvage the nation. I think we got too big for our britches too quickly; if we had just been a little safer, we could have gotten the Supreme Court and taken baby steps, attacking gerrymandering and the like.
Oh, I thought it was 9:30. Okays, cheers.
Ah, no probs. Will fix something to eat now, then.
Sure? That's one of the many messages out there right now. Doesn't contradict with what I'm saying. This was supposed to be a rebuke of misogyny and racism. Didn't happen.
ryutaro's mama
Member
Not comparable. Hillary was hardly as charismatic or as likable as Obama so she was never getting that 5 million but here's the thing: When you aren't as desirable, you have to get what you can and score how you can.
In a tighter race, where the difference is literally 110k votes from the Oval Office, the margins of error are a lot smaller.
So, yes, in that regard, something like Comey's letter can have the effect we saw last night. Without that letter, maybe Trump doesn't bridge the enthusiasm gap and make up that slight difference in returns.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
If policies really really don't matter, like if literally nothing about a political platform matters other than salesmanship, where does that leave democracy?
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
Well, NOW I do.
Whoever it is they can't be milquetoast.
A) I don't feel like charismatic is a word I'd use to describe Trump but considering I consider him to be offensive on a base level, I don't know if I'd be the right person to ask in that regard?
B) Maybe a stronger push for union rights may be the avenue for the Democrats to pursue? But a lot of that is up to the states and if the Dems don't control that State then what can be done?
B) Maybe a stronger push for union rights may be the avenue for the Democrats to pursue? But a lot of that is up to the states and if the Dems don't control that State then what can be done?
Poodlestrike
Banned
GUYS
Who gives a fuck who runs in 2020? Shit is going to be nigh-on-permanently fucked during the next 4 years anyway.
This is now a question of survival, not victory. Winning in 2020 won't count for shit.
Who gives a fuck who runs in 2020? Shit is going to be nigh-on-permanently fucked during the next 4 years anyway.
This is now a question of survival, not victory. Winning in 2020 won't count for shit.
You know the answer already. Direct Democracy was a mistake.
Hyperactivity
Banned
I was still 17 and couldn't vote this election
I feel so shook to my core. I had always planned on voting every two years, for locals, etc. But I swear to god, I can't leave it to chance anymore, I have to get involved, going door to door, everything.
Fuck this is so humiliating as a Muslim-American.
I feel so shook to my core. I had always planned on voting every two years, for locals, etc. But I swear to god, I can't leave it to chance anymore, I have to get involved, going door to door, everything.
Fuck this is so humiliating as a Muslim-American.
I dunno if they have one of those currently in the party. The Democrats have to hope that the trump presidency is a massive clusterfuck, and then they can go "We can clean this up!" with a damn charismatic person.
I mean, Obama is still an amazing orator when he speaks, even after all this time.
I'm somewhat hopeful the media will finally wake the fuck up. For all the soul searching we need to do, their constant willingness to equate emails to the festering heaps of Trump scandals is really the biggest problem with this election.
JetBlackPanda
Member
Well it looks like the GOP figured it out. They control most local governments and congress and now the White House thanks to salesmanship.
cartoon_soldier
Member
One of Hillary's big mistakes was actually not painting Donald Trump like a regular Republican in economic messaging apart from being anti-trade.
Yeah, because it's "elitist" to be opposed to racism.
Like it or not, that's the problem here. Millions--or at least hundreds of thousands--of people are predisposed to believe in empty promises because they inherently are willing to believe that black and brown people are the cause of the problems.
ErasureAcer
Banned
You are living in fantasy land. Hillary won the nomination because mainstream networks didn't cover anything of Bernie Sanders' substance and yet he still won 22 states. Think about that for the next 4 years before you make the same mistake again.
Bernie had solutions that made sense. He was the best to combat Trump.
Oh, I took a honeymoon in Russia...your campaign is directly being supported by them. How's Manafort doing?
Oh, I spoke of Castro's plight to make Cuba a better nation...you went a step further and tried to do business there illegally.
The baggage Sanders didn't have(Bill) would have put him in the position to combat Trump's grabbing ways.
And so on and so forth. Trump had nothing on Bernie.
Bernie would have raked Trump over climate change, the Iraq war(Clinton loses again in that regard), minimum wage, trickle down economics and so forth. Yeah, Clinton hit those points too but Bernie is grumpy when he speaks and it would have held weight.
If this election was the year of the outsider, you can't get more outsider than the longest serving Independent in history. Clinton is partisan as they come who on many issues was wrong(TPP, Keystone, for private prisons before she eventually turned on that too).
I don't know who else the Democrats have. If Bernie's health is good...hell, let's give it to him. He's proven he can raise a shit ton of money. Maybe those who don't know him will pay attention over the next 4 years to what he does. He's up for reelection in 2018. If he's running for President he should bow out of that race and run full-time for the Presidency. I'm sure he learned a lot from mistakes he made this go around.
thehypocrite
Member
They don't matter as much, but we of a certain standing like to pretend they do. You have to be a warm face first, otherwise people don't listen to your words and policies.
Poodlestrike
Banned
I would also like to point out that we're already skipping 2018. MIDTERMS.
Yup. This is how I see it. Many people think dems will go more left. Nope. They are going more to the Center on a few issues. If yall want that rural vote that we'll never get no matter what this is what dems will do. A more economically populist message. Probably very little gun talk etc.
At this point, I know he has to be white and male for sure. Someone like Bill from a red state.
This is what us 26-34yos had to go through that the 18-25s didn't. The chasm this election has been noticeable between those two groups.
Are a referendum on the current Pres.
balladofwindfishes
Member
Well, NOW I do.
I've never wanted W more in my life.
I am actually longing for the days when a distant war in a distant country was the worst thing I had to care about in politics (I was a kid/teenager during Bush)
I just want Obama to give me a hug and tell me things are always darkest before they get better. I need him to be there for us all right now. And for the next 4 years. And forever.
Elections democrats historically snooze on.
Officerrob
Banned
If he's bland, it won't matter.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Midterm turnout is never great for Dems in the best of years. You wanna imagine what its going to look like after two years of the GOP rolling out every type of voter suppression they feel like unopposed?
No, I don't think the answer was running more Clinton. After last night's results, I can admit this.
If you've followed my posts, you remember me saying this months ago: Politics is performance, and Dems lose up and down the ticket when they forget that.
It's the thing we've been talking around all election. These people:
Bill Clinton
Barack Obama
Michelle Obama
Elizabeth Warren
What do they have in common? They understand, on an intrinsic level, that Charisma Matters. It matters more than it should. But it matters. It's why they can grip us with a speech. It's why they can so effortlessly talk about complex politics in a fervor and language that grips even the uninitiated. They're not afraid to speak simply, and in absolutes.
It hurts me to write that, because I adore Hillary Clinton. She's devoted decades of her life to being a public servant, to preparing for this. She's the type of person we SHOULD WANT to be our President.
But the next person we runs needs to have the one thing she admitted she didn't and never had: an affinity for the performance of politics. We need to run performers, and those performances need to be aimed squarely at the Democratic base.
ryutaro's mama
Member
Democrats are notoriously bad during midterm elections.
cartoon_soldier
Member
I think Dems need to get stronger at the local level first.
http://www.vox.com/2015/10/19/9565119/democrats-in-deep-trouble
I mean, I don't think anyone here is holding out hope for midterms. Dems have been horrific at voting in midterms.
And thinking about 2020 right now is essential. The Dems need to be a hard opposition party now with people to rally behind. We can't take any chances and start thinking about this in 2020. The only thing (besides complete destruction) that is worse than a one term Trump presidency is a two term Trump presidency.
how about mark cuban
I think the democratic party is going to fight over going further left like UK labour or something. We're going to be in the woods for another 20 years, watch. which is amazing considering how popular obama is.
A Link to the Past
Banned
For me, it's a lot of different factors. For one, the GOP is going to kill the filibuster, and in all likelihood, we are going to lose a couple seats in the Supreme Court more likely. So it makes me fret that even if Americans are upset by the GOP, winning the Senate will not do much. I am definitely going to do more to get people voting in my state in the midterms.
Snowman Prophet of Doom
Member
The CNN exit polls showed that most had decided long before the Comey letter what they were going to do.
Trump's base was enthused as fuck, while Clinton's was not.
Clinton was a bad candidate for this electorate. People need to let that sink in, or else 2020 is gonna be the same fucking problem all over again.
RustyNails
Member
Poodlestrike
Banned
Right?
Like, for fuck's sake. You guys want to know the reason why Dems can only succeed in Presidential years with super charismatic candidates? It's because the Democratic base is looking for a hero. A singular savior, someone to fix all the problems by themselves. The Democratic base needs to be trained to understand that EVERY VOTE MATTERS. EVERY ELECTION MATTERS. Black voters get it, but it's looking like every other part of the coalition is goddamn slow on the uptake.
As to the first, that's sort of my point.
As to the second, we'll see how it goes. President is a hard fucking job, I could see Trump tapping out after one term.
Plenty of people have pointed out that she could not reach working white voters and at worst that she seemed to have disdain for them. Comments like those deriding whites who voted for Trump miss the point entirely and shows why she did so poorly.
Basileus777
Member
Unions are dead. Expect right to work on a national scale.
nature boy
Member
Gingrich
Guilliani
Flynn
Pierson
Christie
Thiel
Palin
Hannity
Coulter
Guilliani
Flynn
Pierson
Christie
Thiel
Palin
Hannity
Coulter
balladofwindfishes
Member
You know what. I'm cautiously optimistic. There's a tiny sliver of hope in my mind that maybe... it won't be as bad as I think. Maybe under all the bluster and racism and garbage, Trump is actually ready and willing to try and do his best to make the country a better place for everyone.
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