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PoliGAF 2016 |OT15| Orange is the New Black
- Thread starter Y2Kev
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Then get out there and volunteer. Spam the DNC! You think they like this situation? Do something!
I posted earlier about how, even though I'm in Jordan, if there was something valuable I could, I would fly to the States to help out. This is how serious everyone single one of us posting here should be. The time for posting on forums and whining is over - look at where the fucking Pepes who did that are now. Activism is the way forward. Contact DNC officials or bloody tweet Mook, Huma or Hillary.
And it starts with helping win the mid-terms, btw.
Veritigo_X
Member
I like Warren where she is. Really depends on how things play out, but I think she would be as hard of a sell as Bernie would be running.
A Kanye West victory also looks likely.
Plinko
Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
1. I was in the middle of teaching a class.
2. I offered numerous ideas last night. I've been a regular in this thread for over a year now and have discussed this at length.
Start promising things to people. Universal income. No tax rate for those under $55000. Medicare for all. Make a guarantee your guns won't be taken away, but the loopholes (which the vast majority of voters are against) will. Start actually claiming you care about the 2nd amendment. Provide actual plans for helping fix the healthcare crisis. Hillary was AWFUL at messaging in this area. "We need to fix it." HOW? What possible benefit could you offer these low-income rural voters? It's not just Hillary, either--democrats in general are TERRIBLE at messaging. Just the worst.
Also, and I know people don't like it here, but I'll say it anyway: START PLAYING POLITICS. Republicans are masters at fear-mongering. Democrats act like elitists and refuse to play that game. That's garbage. It works. Start focusing on fixing these people's fears.
You can't just broadly brush this aside as "Racists won him the election." That's insane. These people wanted change. They want help. They feel ignored. Trump reached them effectively. Clinton was the farthest thing from it.
I suggested this last night. It's a great idea and I think democrats only win with a celebrity or businessman. A politician isn't going to do it.
[extreme run-on sentence coming]
But what does it say about liberal politics and the cachet it has with the greater American public if, the only time Democrats get wave elections is after a supreme clusterf**k by a GOP administration...and then 8 years later, they just forget and vote right back for the same policies AGAIN?
I mean, we JUST got over Bush, who caused the economic meltdown of 2008-2009. And SINCE 2010, conservatives have been advocated for ALL of the Bush policies again, and winning elections on it.
Poodlestrike
Banned
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
This election was not lost over the Democratic base.
Like, how much more clear can it be at this point? It was lost because in Michigan, Wisconsin, and Pennsylvania, people who did not feel represented by the Democratic base's identity politics decided to vote Trump despite having been Democratic themselves in the past. Offering the base red meat means, knowing the base, campaigning on civil rights reform and LGBT issues. That would get you massacred in 2020.
A Link to the Past
Banned
It's unfortunate, but I am not disregarding this idea. We are definitely in a point in our country's history where we need to huddle up, recover, and come up with a game plan. At the very least, a counter-Trump could do something to help them get ready for the Gen Z appeal.
Officerrob
Banned
Ahh yes, the midterms where the Senate will get more Republican...
Bernie would have ranted about the billionaires on wallstreet. He had ample time to expand his message to some (any) other issue, and never did. He was explicitly asked questions about other issues, ignored them, and ranted about billionaires instead. The idea that he would suddenly have a broader message if nominated is absurd.
Rah! (Sorry if I went a bit OTT there.
)Thing is, "did" and "will" are different things. The mid-terms will make or break the country now, and the sooner people realise that, the better.
No, I agree.
But there's a reason a relatively unknown until recently Massachusetts senator is as popular as she is.
banefirelord
Banned
Colbert hits the millenial, religious, charismatic and recognition checkboxes pretty well IMO.
soundscream
Member
If a school full of small children getting shot up couldn't move the needle on minor reforms, there is probably no resonable way to get anything done.
Joe Shlabotnik
Banned
This will be just in time for the media to try out its new focus on policy.
balladofwindfishes
Member
We all survived Bush. Some of us (not me, too young) survived Reagan.
We can do it again. It'll be hard and painful. But we'll make it. And it'll make us a better country. Look towards the neo-Obama/Bill Clinton that will arise in 2020 or 2024. During our darkest times as Liberals, a new, fresh face of the party comes to our aid and the country is set back on track for 8 years.
We ARE making progress in this country. It's slow. It's laborious. There are set backs. But we've always bounced back. We're a better country than we were 20 years ago, and we'll be a better country in 20 years than we are right now.
ryutaro's mama
Member
I know she was a bad candidate. I held my nose and voted AGAINST Trump, not for her. Most Trump supporters voted FOR him.
Point is, even with all that shit going against her, she could have probably still eeked out a win, with such a small margin we saw.
And if I read that exit polling correct, 8% of those polled said the decided to vote in the "last few days".
That is more than enough to be the difference in FL, WI, MI and PA.
Link
The Autumn Wind
Posted this in another thread, may as well put it here:
We're now going to see if Republicans are willing to pull the trigger on all the rhetoric and red meat legislation they fed their base. They knew they could never follow through on it under Obama, but now there's nothing stopping them.
We're now going to see if Republicans are willing to pull the trigger on all the rhetoric and red meat legislation they fed their base. They knew they could never follow through on it under Obama, but now there's nothing stopping them.
Bruce Springsteen
Member
Limbaugh also
Plinko
Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
Your (and many others on here) problem with that argument is that just because someone is a racist doesn't mean you can't reach out to them in another area. THAT is elitist.
Snowman Prophet of Doom
Member
Yeah, the more people retreat to the "FUCK WHITE PEOPLE!!!!" thing, the less it seems like they learned from this election.
Edit: pigeon, you don't have to be poor to have economic and cultural anxiety, and the notion that Bernie could have turned some of the white rage that got rural whites to show up for Trump against the wealthy and corporations instead of brown people is not at all ludicrous. It's not a guarantee, but hey, the way we tried didn't fucking work, so why not entertain a counterfactual?
RustyNails
Member
The democratic party's policies favor the rust belt. We can't do anything if they get energized by racism and bigotry. We should chart a new map with Arizona and Georgia in mind. Fuck the racist deplorables and let them rot in their abandoned crumbling shitholes.
Officerrob
Banned
I could not agree more
Poodlestrike
Banned
Things are different now.
Republicans are nastier, and smarter. We could very well be looking down the barrel of the death of American democracy right now. Voter suppression will reach unheard of heights.
We need to focus entirely on the local level, and by that I don't mean the Senate, or even the House. We need to wrest away control of legislatures, school boards, mayorships, the tiny areas where we can do some good.
A Link to the Past
Banned
The thing that has me sad is that even if we win in 2020, the Supreme Court is boned. All I can hope for anymore is that Trump only appoints one Justice and Kennedy begins to lean liberal.
Plinko
Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
Then good luck winning any elections in the next 20 years.
I totally agree, but I don't know how we do that. But this is the best time to start honestly. DNC needs to be overhauled and dems need to build and infrastructure to win local elections.
Bruce Springsteen
Member
Tell me more about Bernie Sanders white males
What are you trying to prove with this in relation to Bernie?
That rumored VP offer to Kasich doesnt look that bad now.
One might argue that white suburban union (or ex union) trade-employed people are the democratic base. or were. whatever.
I wouldn't actively fight against this strategy, becaus I'm all for those things. I'll just passively predict that it won't work. Why? Because racism. Universal income helps black/brown people. Why do you think so many of the working class whites who just voted for Trump did so in spite of the fact that Hillary's policies would greatly benefit them? This isn't new. This phenomenon has been happening for decades. It started to some extent in the 60s, and to a larger extent in the 80s.
Agreed, he reached them...with racism. It's really not disputable that racism was his strategy, and it was successful. You're arguing that the people who fell for it didn't do so because of his racist strategy, but that's a stretch.
While the situation is sad and it seems surprising to many especially on gaf, if you spent time talking politics with people (face to face, not online or via polls, etc) without arguing, watching without casting judgment or filtering with bias you could see the signs flickering in the shadows...
As one of the few people who saw Trumps potential from the start and one of the first people to actually see and label Trump as a possible Black Swan in relation to being a statistical anomaly, it was pretty obvious he was never the long shot so many were positioning him.
When I posted early in the primaries that a lot of Obama voters were on the Bernie or Trump boat, so many here couldn't understand or accept that as a possibility and in the end that's what it really came down to. This was not about people this was about an ideal. It's what got Obama elected originally and why Bernie was the obvious choice to go against Trump.
If you look back at my posts I was pretty much 100% on the mark for the start, except for there being no visible pivot. You can see I continually posted off and on what was happening with Trump along with why it was happening. Heck my post on like 11/7 pointed out a strong surge of women and the silent mass starting make it self known.
I'm a registered independent who's always voted Democrat however I've always been open to voting Republican if the right candidate came along as I am always willing to listen to both sides of a discussion. Sadly these forums in regards to politics were at times acting exactly like crazy trump supporters. My only ever ban here been was in a Trump thread where we were discussing the interpretation of some of Trump bullshit.
If this willingness to not listen to differing views or the people at the other side of the table that we have a much bigger and dangerous threat that Donald Trump. If more and more people spend more of their lives echo chambers and pointing fingers we are fucked...
Listening is not the same as acceptance. But you can't start a dialogue when you're talking over someone.
P.S. odds are things will not be as bad as people fear nor will it be as good as his supporters hope.
My personal hope is a Trump backtracks and does giving a big fuck you to many of supporters by showing them that he's open to lying to whatever or whoever he has to do get the job done...
As one of the few people who saw Trumps potential from the start and one of the first people to actually see and label Trump as a possible Black Swan in relation to being a statistical anomaly, it was pretty obvious he was never the long shot so many were positioning him.
When I posted early in the primaries that a lot of Obama voters were on the Bernie or Trump boat, so many here couldn't understand or accept that as a possibility and in the end that's what it really came down to. This was not about people this was about an ideal. It's what got Obama elected originally and why Bernie was the obvious choice to go against Trump.
If you look back at my posts I was pretty much 100% on the mark for the start, except for there being no visible pivot. You can see I continually posted off and on what was happening with Trump along with why it was happening. Heck my post on like 11/7 pointed out a strong surge of women and the silent mass starting make it self known.
I'm a registered independent who's always voted Democrat however I've always been open to voting Republican if the right candidate came along as I am always willing to listen to both sides of a discussion. Sadly these forums in regards to politics were at times acting exactly like crazy trump supporters. My only ever ban here been was in a Trump thread where we were discussing the interpretation of some of Trump bullshit.
If this willingness to not listen to differing views or the people at the other side of the table that we have a much bigger and dangerous threat that Donald Trump. If more and more people spend more of their lives echo chambers and pointing fingers we are fucked...
Listening is not the same as acceptance. But you can't start a dialogue when you're talking over someone.
P.S. odds are things will not be as bad as people fear nor will it be as good as his supporters hope.
My personal hope is a Trump backtracks and does giving a big fuck you to many of supporters by showing them that he's open to lying to whatever or whoever he has to do get the job done...
There is so much to unpack, but the one thing I am absolutely sure of is that Hillary lost this election. Her flaws as a candidate were insurmountable. Mostly through a 30 year smear campaign, but not just a little because of her own secretiveness and arrogance, she made herself unelectable. Obama beating her in 2008 should have been when Hillary gave up on the Presidency. She could have cemented her legacy in Democratic politics by spending the following 8 years finding rising female stars in the party and helping them become mayors, governors, and senators. She could have built a bench of women legislators to carry her ideals into the next generation. But she was too ambitious, and not willing to cede the prize of being the first woman President.
Now she will go down in infamy as the candidate that not only lost to Donald Trump, but who did immense damage to the legacy of the first black President. It's an ignominious end to a political career.
I also place yuge blame on the DNC and the Democratic establishment that allowed her to become so powerful and greased the wheels for her candidacy. Bernie Sanders was also a deeply flawed candidate, so I'm not pretending we'd all be celebrating President Bernie this morning had the primary turned out differently. That's the problem- the Democratic field was small, it was filled with weak candidates, and I'm not sure any of them would have stood a chance against a generic Republican candidate. That's on the Party. They need to do some soul searching ASAP.
The next 4 years are going to be very tough for the country. America is entering the laboratory of conservative economic experimentation. Every state that's done so for the last couple decades has been a real shit show unless it sits over oceans of fossil fuel, so I'm not confident things are going to turn out all that well. Selling insurance over state lines and letting the market figure out how to tackle air pollution are insane ideas and the best we will get for at least two years. A lot of damage can be done in two years. I'm legit shook about the future of this country.
Now she will go down in infamy as the candidate that not only lost to Donald Trump, but who did immense damage to the legacy of the first black President. It's an ignominious end to a political career.
I also place yuge blame on the DNC and the Democratic establishment that allowed her to become so powerful and greased the wheels for her candidacy. Bernie Sanders was also a deeply flawed candidate, so I'm not pretending we'd all be celebrating President Bernie this morning had the primary turned out differently. That's the problem- the Democratic field was small, it was filled with weak candidates, and I'm not sure any of them would have stood a chance against a generic Republican candidate. That's on the Party. They need to do some soul searching ASAP.
The next 4 years are going to be very tough for the country. America is entering the laboratory of conservative economic experimentation. Every state that's done so for the last couple decades has been a real shit show unless it sits over oceans of fossil fuel, so I'm not confident things are going to turn out all that well. Selling insurance over state lines and letting the market figure out how to tackle air pollution are insane ideas and the best we will get for at least two years. A lot of damage can be done in two years. I'm legit shook about the future of this country.
what is the state of the Supreme Court?
When everyone says that the next president will get to pick multiple justices, are they just assuming some of the older ones will die in the next four years? Or have some of them indicated they will retire soon?
Only thing I guess we can hold out hope for right now is Trump nominating a moderate. Maybe he'll set the tone of his presidency this way? ugh...
When everyone says that the next president will get to pick multiple justices, are they just assuming some of the older ones will die in the next four years? Or have some of them indicated they will retire soon?
Only thing I guess we can hold out hope for right now is Trump nominating a moderate. Maybe he'll set the tone of his presidency this way? ugh...
Poodlestrike
Banned
She's got the credentials, but I don't know much about her personally. Does she have the charisma?
RustyNails
Member
I say let them and watch it blow up like Kansas. Just hope we have a strong base and candidate to call them out in 2020 because the media sure as fuck wont.
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
I think he might genuinely be a winner if he wants it.
We'll see. They are still beholden to their big money donors and lobbyists
mentallyinept
Banned
Damn this hurts to read this morning, but it's spot on.
Officerrob
Banned
At this point, I think a Cuban type is necessary. Sending a boring centrist lamb to slaughter in 2020 gets us nowhere
Plinko
Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
But there is no evidence that he actually reached them with racism at this point. None. McCain ran in 2008. Romney in 2012. Both of these guys were lifelong politicians. Trump was an outsider. I deal with these people on a regular basis--they think a random person can do the job of president. That's what they wanted to see. Racism may have played a role, but it is foolish to think it was the only thing motivating every single one of these voters.
Also, don't forget the absolute hatred rural white voters have of Hillary. They think she should be in jail because they think she broke the law, and she got away with it. They also, as I've said repeatedly, are not comfortable with a woman leading. I think sexism had much more to do with it.
Okay, I see your point there. But as I've been discussing with my friends (offline), I agree with you that they can be reached on other issues. But as I suggested above, the problem is that there is a cognitive dissonance for them, or at least a paradoxical dilemma for them: "do I better my own situation knowing that it might help an undocumented immigrant or lazy black person?"
That is the problem we've been unable to overcome for quite some time. Obama masked that issue because he was an aberration.
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