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[pigeon]

Yeah, the more people retreat to the "FUCK WHITE PEOPLE!!!!" thing, the less it seems like they learned from this election.

Edit: pigeon, you don't have to be poor to have economic and cultural anxiety, and the notion that Bernie could have turned some of the white rage that got rural whites to show up for Trump against the wealthy and corporations instead of brown people is not at all ludicrous. It's not a guarantee, but hey, the way we tried didn't fucking work, so why not entertain a counterfactual?

Because it's a counterfactual designed to let white nationalists off the hook by blaming people of color and women for their victimization, just like we did for the last two hundred years.

What is "cultural anxiety"? I have a shorter term for that.

 

[A Link to the Past]

A friend kind of put into perspective that we kind of fucked it up when we went too far left - at the very least, that we did so and told a lot of Americans to "deal with it." In doing so, it made it difficult for moderate Republicans and independents to abide voting for Hillary, and easier for Trump to lure them in.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

One might argue that white suburban union (or ex union) trade-employed people are the democratic base. or were. whatever.

I agree, I argue that all the time. :3 I meant royalan's conception of the Democratic base specifically in the post.

 

[Blader]

And Cooper just beat McCrory by 0.1% (under 4k votes)

What a disaster.

Isn't that good?

 

[thehypocrite]

This election was not lost over the Democratic base.

Like, how much more clear can it be at this point? It was lost because in Michigan, Wisconsin, and Pennsylvania, people who did not feel represented by the Democratic base's identity politics decided to vote Trump despite having been Democratic themselves in the past. Offering the base red meat means, knowing the base, campaigning on civil rights reform and LGBT issues. That would get you massacred in 2020.

Is like he doesn't understand the concept of battleground states. Look at all that hard blue in the map, those places are safe, look at all that flipped because the DNC pushed the worst candidate for them. What do you learn from it? What do you think are the common variables? Do you think they give a shit about a global agenda? Do you think they are with Hillary and her affiliation with the trade deals that have wrecked their communities? Do you think they were gonna be with her? Have you been to the rural areas in those places?

 

[balladofwindfishes]

The thing that has me sad is that even if we win in 2020, the Supreme Court is boned. All I can hope for anymore is that Trump only appoints one Justice and Kennedy begins to lean liberal.

We've had progress in this country with a hostile Supreme Court. It's a hurdle. Not a blockade.

If we win in 2020, the Supreme Court will likely look the same as it did last year. Scalia part 2 will replace Scalia this year. Ruth will hang on.

W didn't get a justice in his first term. There's no guarantee Trump will either. Ruth certainly isn't going to let him replace her for as long as her health lasts.

 

[Veritigo_X]

I didn't even recognize Kev in here

 

[cartoon_soldier]

Isn't that good?

Looking at what happened to Clinton...yea that will do.

 

[Plinko]

Is like he doesn't understand the concept of battleground states. Look at all that hard blue in the map, those places are safe, look at all that flipped because the DNC pushed the worst candidate for them. What do you learn from it? What do you think are the common variables? Do you think they give a shit about a global agenda? Do you think they are with Hillary and her affiliation with the trade deals that have wrecked their communities? Do you think they were gonna be with her? Have you been to the rural areas in this places?

Bingo. These people don't care about any of that, and that's what the campaign was run on.

 

[Snowman Prophet of Doom]

This election was not lost over the Democratic base.

Like, how much more clear can it be at this point? It was lost because in Michigan, Wisconsin, and Pennsylvania, people who did not feel represented by the Democratic base's identity politics decided to vote Trump despite having been Democratic themselves in the past. Offering the base red meat means, knowing the base, campaigning on civil rights reform and LGBT issues. That would get you massacred in 2020.

Neither candidate has as many votes as even Romney did in 2012, and Hill is down over 5 million from Obama.

This election was a referendum on Hillary, specifically. Even more accurately, it was a reflection of how fragile the Obama coalition really was, and how many loosely attached people who voted mostly for Obama's personal charisma and magnetism, not Democratic policies, there were.

 

[Thaedolus]

I'm so fucking ashamed and embarrassed by my country right now. That's my only contribution

 

[ryutaro's mama]

The democratic party's policies favor the rust belt. We can't do anything if they get energized by racism and bigotry. We should chart a new map with Arizona and Georgia in mind. Fuck the racist deplorables and let them rot in their abandoned crumbling shitholes.

The "deplorables" were able to successfully organize and GOTV with virtually non existent ground game...all from their abandoned, crumbling shitholes.

This defiance seems odd and misplaced.

 

[Boke1879]

I can't even imagine how Hillary is feeling right now

I'm sure she's devastated, pissed off and no doubt pissed off at herself.

But I have no doubts she'll do whatever she can to help this country going forward in any way possible.

 

[Angry Fork]

Tell me more about Bernie Sanders white males

All of those numbers are fairly close when you take away the big scary colors. There are just as many rich banker cunts who loved Hillary because she had their back.

 

[tmarg]

Colbert hits the millenial, religious, charismatic and recognition checkboxes pretty well IMO.

The idea of nominating someone with absolutely no governing experience is only slightly less terrible coming from the Democrats than it is with the Republicans. If we follow them down that road, the country really is lost. It's time for everyine to actually start taking this seriously, and we are going to have to lead by example.

The presidency is important, and the person who holds the office needs to know what they are doing. One of the most troubling things about Trump to me is that he shows that people have such contempt for our government that the believe that literally anyone could do the job.

 

[Revolver]

how about mark cuban

That's probably what it's come to.

I'm honestly just gutted. Nothing mattered in this election. Facts, truth, humanity, polls, logic, GOTV. Nothing but seething hate. We're a one party country now with a giant red gaping chasm where it's heart once was.

 

[Loudninja]

I didn't even recognize Kev in here

That is his old avatar!

 

[Doc Holliday]

Short memories for the fucking loss

 

[shinra-bansho]

I agree, I argue that all the time. :3 I meant royalan's conception of the Democratic base specifically in the post.

It was. And then it wasn't. They can try to get it back. While also trying to retain the new base.
But I don't think they can.

I don't know when rural whites were the Democratic base though.

 

[witness]

Well exit strategy in place, moving the fuck out of Florida and moving to Massachusetts where my sister is. No fucking way can my wife and I stay in this goddamn republican controlled state any longer. I'm terrified for the future of the country, and especially red controlled states. This is so devastating. We had a good venting moment this morning at work, but I feel just sick to my stomach all morning.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

The idea of nominating someone with absolutely no governing experience is only slightly less terrible coming from the Democrats than it is with the Republicans. If we follow them down that road, the country really is lost. It's time for everyine to actually start taking this seriously, and we are going to have to lead by example.

The presidency is important, and the person who holds the office needs to know what they are doing. One of the most troubling things about Trump to me is that he shows that people have such contempt for our government that the believe that literally anyone could do the job.

Colbert has no experience. But he's smart and he knows smart people, and he'd get the people he'd need to help him learn the ropes. It's the same as Trump. Besides being smart. Or maybe Trump is a tactical genius. He is president after all.

It's not the best option. But the pool of celebrities for the Democrats is massive. We have banks and banks of them. Maybe we need to start tapping them for more than random concerts in states we ended up losing.

 

[TumblingHippo]

Goodbye Obama's lgbt executive order :c

 

[Nazgul_Hunter]

The idea of nominating someone with absolutely no governing experience is only slightly less terrible coming from the Democrats than it is with the Republicans. If we follow them down that road, the country really is lost. It's time for everyine to actually start taking this seriously, and we are going to have to lead by example.

The presidency is important, and the person who holds the office needs to know what they are doing. One of the most troubling things about Trump to me is that he shows that people have such contempt for our government that the believe that literally anyone could do the job.

This is the road we take to get President Camacho

 

[Plinko]

The idea of nominating someone with absolutely no governing experience is only slightly less terrible coming from the Democrats than it is with the Republicans. If we follow them down that road, the country really is lost. It's time for everyine to actually start taking this seriously, and we are going to have to lead by example.

The presidency is important, and the person who holds the office needs to know what they are doing. One of the most troubling things about Trump to me is that he shows that people have such contempt for our government that the believe that literally anyone could do the job.

It's not, though. Trump isn't going to do much policy. Pence is.

Democrats could nominate a leader with a solid establishment VP.

 

[Already Torn]

Yo fuck Ken Bone

 

[Boke1879]

Neither candidate has as many votes as even Romney did in 2012, and Hill is down over 5 million from Obama.

This election was a referendum on Hillary, specifically. Even more accurately, it was a reflection of how fragile the Obama coalition really was, and how many loosely attached people who voted mostly for Obama's personal charisma and magnetism, not Democratic policies, there were.

I think it was mentioned earlier in the thread. If Romney turned out this group that Trump managed. Romney wins in 2012.

 

[TheAbsolution]

I just realized. I can no longer enjoy politics for a while. Shit.

 

[royalan]

This election was not lost over the Democratic base.

Like, how much more clear can it be at this point? It was lost because in Michigan, Wisconsin, and Pennsylvania, people who did not feel represented by the Democratic base's identity politics decided to vote Trump despite having been Democratic themselves in the past. Offering the base red meat means, knowing the base, campaigning on civil rights reform and LGBT issues. That would get you massacred in 2020.

You're not reading my post if you think I'm saying this comes down to identity politics. That is not my point, in fact I agree with you on that.

Identity politics alone will not win the White House.

But neither will a purely economic "JOBS!" message, because what we should have learned by now is that the implicit message Republicans give that white people eat up is "JOBS! (for white people)". For the time being, Republicans own this. We saw it in elections before Obama.

The winning Democratic candidate wins by doing both. Obama could do both. He could sell an economic message without focusing so much on identity politics because his identity was identity politics.

I don't know who this candidate is, but I disagree that you'll find him before I do.

 

[Snowman Prophet of Doom]

Because it's a counterfactual designed to let white nationalists off the hook by blaming people of color and women for their victimization, just like we did for the last two hundred years.

What is "cultural anxiety"? I have a shorter term for that.

"Cultural anxiety" is watching your communities get hooked on heroin and alcohol, watching your men commit suicide at higher and higher rates, watching your traditional jobs go away, watching your wages stagnate, and then watching as the cultural zeitgeist, itself, switches to one in which you and your ancestors are pegged as the epicenter of many or all of the world's problems. Yeah, racism is a part of that, don't deny that, but it's not the whole. And if you think the proper response to this election is to double down on the "basket of deplorables" rhetoric that got these people amped up and ready to vote in the first place, well, congratulations on your losing platform.

 

[Y2Kev]

I didn't even recognize Kev in here

Hillary died.

 

[jmdajr]

Stephen Tries To Make Sense Of All This

 

[RustyNails]

The "deplorables" were able to successfully organize and GOTV with virtually non existent ground game...all from their abandoned, crumbling shitholes.

This defiance seems odd and misplaced.

All I'm saying is we shouldn't coddle deplorables and try to have a candidate that is sympathetic to "cultural anxiety".

 

[pigeon]

This election was not lost over the Democratic base.

Like, how much more clear can it be at this point? It was lost because in Michigan, Wisconsin, and Pennsylvania, people who did not feel represented by the Democratic base's identity politics decided to vote Trump despite having been Democratic themselves in the past. Offering the base red meat means, knowing the base, campaigning on civil rights reform and LGBT issues. That would get you massacred in 2020.

It's amazing that you can make those arguments to me last night and then get up and straightforwardly say exactly what I'm saying -- that a political party cannot compete in America if it prioritizes the rights of people of color, women, LGBT, etc.

Again, as a white male presumably you don't understand what it means to casually say that campaigning on the idea that black people should not be shot out of hand will get you destroyed in American politics.

It is true! But it's not a good argument for the legitimacy of American government.

 

[Pixieking]

Ron Perlman ‏@perlmutations 9h9 hours ago

I am hereby using my immense Twitter presence to announce my candidacy for President of United States, 2020.

https://twitter.com/perlmutations/status/796237038622154752

Better than Trump. Least he can read a script without rambling.

 

[Crocodile]

I know she was a bad candidate. I held my nose and voted AGAINST Trump, not for her. Most Trump supporters voted FOR him.

Point is, even with all that shit going against her, she could have probably still eeked out a win, with such a small margin we saw.

And if I read that exit polling correct, 8% of those polled said the decided to vote in the "last few days".

That is more than enough to be the difference in FL, WI, MI and PA.

Pretty much all polling showed that more Clinton voters were voting for her than against Trump while most Trump voters were voting against Hilary rather than for Trump. Of course. Granted, I guess the lesson from last night is that ALL POLLS SUCK

Your (and many others on here) problem with that argument is that just because someone is a racist doesn't mean you can't reach out to them in another area. THAT is elitist.

I mean if someone is a diet/overt racist, how do appeal to them without using dogwhistles? If you use dogwhistles, minorities will pick up on that in a second and get PISSED. It's tricky to include these two groups together. If we see racism, you don't have to necessarily open up on a tirade but we can't ignore it either - that's how you get dead minorities in the streets.

Tell me more about Bernie Sanders white males

Yeah this keeps being left out in the story in many places - many Trump supports aren't doing that poorly money-wise.

Yeah, the more people retreat to the "FUCK WHITE PEOPLE!!!!" thing, the less it seems like they learned from this election.

I'm a Black man and everyone on my father's side of my family who is religious is Muslim. While obviously I know and am friends with tons of awesome White people, as a group - they just voted for someone who has directly threatened or embolden those who will be willing to threaten my life and all those I care about. I get to be upset.

 

[Kusagari]

People suggesting Colbert shows what a liberal bubble this place is.

Middle America hates Colbert.

 

[The Technomancer]

"Cultural anxiety" is watching your communities get hooked on heroin and alcohol, watching your men commit suicide at higher and higher rates, watching your traditional jobs go away, watching your wages stagnate, and then watching as the cultural zeitgeist, itself, switches to one in which you and your ancestors are pegged as the epicenter of many or all of the world's problems. Yeah, racism is a part of that, don't deny that, but it's not the whole. And if you think the proper response to this election is to double down on the "basket of deplorables" rhetoric that got these people amped up and ready to vote in the first place, well, congratulations on your losing platform.

Democrats have tried running on platforms that directly address these issues. They don't fucking want it. They want a magic pill that makes everything the way it used to be

 

[Officerrob]

Nothing will happen, but I wish something was done about how long these fucking campaigns are

 

[Doc Holliday]

If I was a conspiracy nut I would be all over this election. Like how the Fuck???

Literally the exact opposite of what every poll told us happened.

 

[PBY]

In the end - she was an awful candidate.

You have to be better.

 

[pigeon]

"Cultural anxiety" is watching your communities get hooked on heroin and alcohol, watching your men commit suicide at higher and higher rates, watching your traditional jobs go away, watching your wages stagnate, and then watching as the cultural zeitgeist, itself, switches to one in which you and your ancestors are pegged as the epicenter of many or all of the world's problems. Yeah, racism is a part of that, don't deny that, but it's not the whole. And if you think the proper response to this election is to double down on the "basket of deplorables" rhetoric that got these people amped up and ready to vote in the first place, well, congratulations on your losing platform.

As I think I said, I don't think the proper response to losing an election to a fascist white nationalist is to talk about how to appeal to white nationalists. As a person of color, I don't have that luxury. I am clear on what white nationalists want.

 

[Wilsongt]

A Kanye West victory also looks likely.

I'll take a Yeezy presidency. He can write his own presidential theme and everything

 

[SexyFish]

If I was a conspiracy nut I would be all over this election. Like how the Fuck???

Literally the exact opposite of what every poll told us happened.

You remember those "Silent Majority Stands With Trump" signs?

They were right.

 

[Pixieking]

If I was a conspiracy nut I would be all over this election. Like how the Fuck???

Literally the exact opposite of what every poll told us happened.

Yeah, it's damn suspicious, I think. But *shrugs*

In the end - she was an awful candidate.

You have to be better.

Literally, the most experienced presidential candidate in history.

People can spin it however they want, but by experience and temperament, she was the best candidate the US could've ever had. Fuck perception and charisma, she had know-how.

 

[soundscream]

It was. And then it wasn't. They can try to get it back. While also trying to retain the new base.
But I don't think they can.

I don't know when rural whites were the Democratic base though.

Before the civil rights act.

 

[nature boy]

This is more and more relevant:

Yoni AppelbaumVerified account
‏@YAppelbaum
"The press takes him literally, but not seriously; his supporters take him seriously, but not literally” @SalenaZito

Isn't that good?

It's good if it stays that way (a recount is probably coming).

But by "disaster" I mean it was pretty fucking close, he almost lost

 

[Stinkles]

I'm going to Mexico tomorrow. Not hyperbole.

Just a work trip. There's a slide in my deck that was funny yesterday morning but now is grimly tragic, so I have to edit it. It was Donald eating his Taco Bowl.


Now I have to switch it to me eating Crow.

 

[Basileus777]

You remember those "Silent Majority Stands With Trump" signs?

They were right.

Well they weren't a majority.

 

[Y2Kev]

Yeah, it's damn suspicious, I think. But *shrugs*



Literally, the most experienced presidential candidate in history.

People can spin it however they want, but my experience and temperament, she was the best candidate we could've ever had.

yeah but no one cares. she was boring and I think most people understood her as a wealthy, globally-minded woman. these are good things to us but not to rural america.

 

[Plinko]

Yeah, it's damn suspicious, I think. But *shrugs*



Literally, the most experienced presidential candidate in history.

People can spin it however they want, but by experience and temperament, she was the best candidate the US could've ever had. Fuck perception and charisma, she had know-how.

With the most baggage of any candidate in recent history. She was a very, very flawed candidate. Experience was what people were looking for back in 2000. Not any more.