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[Crocodile]

People stopped saying it after they were mobbed during the primaries for saying it then.

Some of us in here DID say this and were thrashed for it. Adam et al were quite rude when it came to anybody saying Clinton was a flawed candidate.

I can't say I was prevy to these conversations but there is a difference between "I like this candidate or think they are good" and "I think this candidate is perfect". I do agree Hilary was flawed but I also think she was the best candidate that ran this year. What else is there to say?

 

[hipsterpants]

I'm not optimistic about this. Trump will blame all the problems that he will create on democrats leaving a bad system behind and Obama ruining the healthcare with ACA. He's draining the swamp after all and it takes some time and effort.

I'll try to be positive. I don't know how much patience these deplorables actually have for change. The onus is literally 100% on the GOP to "fix" the "problems". If jobs don't magically come back in 4 years who knows what will happen.

Booker would be a test to see whether being super establishment, but charismatic, is workable, or if any establishment at all, even if you're a rock star, is a death sentence.

I think it's the former and he would lose. We need an outsider like Obama. Or at least, someone who seems outsider. Hillary was running on 30 years of a proven record. It turns out that proven record might have actually been a negative.

Obama had just enough experience to come across as knowing what he's doing, while also being new enough and fresh enough to not seem like he was deep in the establishment.

He was the perfect candidate for the era he ruled in. We basically need Obama 2.0. A minority freshman senator with great orator abilities and no notable negative past.

Kander would have been perfect. Though he's white. And also lost.

Fuck Blunt.

 

[Rebel Leader]

Exactly. He's free to come back if he chooses.

I never seen a self chosen ban that also altered the username, so I assumed the opposite

 

[RustyNails]

"Draining the Swamp" while putting all his Washington friends (who have been there forever) into positions of power. Guliani as the AG is a NIGHTMARE.

Dont expect the media, which provided the greatest gotv campaign for Trump, to keep him accountable.

Kander would have been perfect. Though he's white. And also lost.

Fuck Blunt.

Yeah Kander was my secret 2024 man. Fuck Blunt. Is there any political position for him to grow?

 

[BiggNife]

Yeah I think Feingold is sort of a cautionary tale in Wisconsin. He DID appeal to rural working class voters and has historically appealed to them. What happened? He actually ran worse than Clinton.

I am guessing it just came down to the huge surge in trump voters who voted downticket and didn't really follow the senate race at all.

 

[Snowman Prophet of Doom]

Oh I didn't see that

buy why is "User 463088" there instead?

That would suggest his account was deleted.

 

[Iolo]

For those of you who were active and voted in the disappointments of 2000 and '04: how does this compare? For as long as I've been into politics, I've never really been on the losing side of a presidential election before ('04 was the first one I was into, and being a conservative teen at the time, I sided with Bush, which I'm still embarrassed about). I feel completely devastated today, but I don't know how much of that is just the unfamiliarity of losing like this or if it's rooted in the unique danger that Trump with a GOP-controlled government poses.

Ten times worse. For example, this is the first time I have ever seen my wife break down and sob uncontrollably. And I do mean ever.

 

[metalslimer]

I think the reality is that we haven't had as much progress in this country as we liked, but I still think it is trending in the right direction. It is just more oscillatory. We are in a valley right now unfortunately.

I don't even feel this to be honest. It would be one thing if someone like Pence won even with his horrendous social ideas, but the fact that Trump won tells me we have not made much progress on social issues at all.

 

[Plinko]

If we're going to go with a politician, is Kander such a bad choice?

Dude ran SIXTEEN points ahead of Hillary in MO. That's unprecedented in this day and ago.

And think about why. The guy reached out to rural voters.

I can't say I was prevy to these conversations but there is a difference between "I like this candidate or think they are good" and "I think this candidate is perfect". I do agree Hilary was flawed but I also think she was the best candidate that ran this year. What else is there to say?

This was more, "How dare you say anything that disparages Hillary and/or her campaign, etc." It was a ridiculous reaction.

 

[sphagnum]

Wanted to share this Jacobim article. It's time to fight.

We have no illusions about the impact of Donald Trump’s victory. It is a disaster. The prospect of a unified right-wing government, led by an authoritarian populist, represents a catastrophe for working people.

There are two ways to respond to this situation. One is to blame the people of the United States. The other is to blame the elite of the country.

In the coming days and weeks, many pundits will be doing the former. Frightened liberals have already written explainers on how to move to Canada; last night, the Canadian immigration website went down after a surge of traffic. The people who brought us to this precipice are now planning their escape.

But blaming the American public for Trump’s victory only deepens the elitism that rallied his voters in the first place. It’s unquestionable that racism and sexism played a crucial role in Trump’s rise. And it’s horrifying to contemplate the ways that his triumph will serve to strengthen the cruelest and most bigoted forces in American society.

Still, a response to Trump that begins and ends with horror is not a political response — it is a form of paralysis, a politics of hiding under the bed. And a response to American bigotry that begins and ends with moral denunciation is not a politics at all — it is the opposite of politics. It is surrender.

To believe that Trump’s appeal was entirely based on ethnic nationalism is to believe that a near majority of Americans are driven only by hate and a shared desire for a white supremacist political program.

We don’t believe that. And the facts don’t bear it out.

This election, in the words of New York Times analyst Nate Cohn, was decided by people who voted for Barack Obama in 2012. Not all of them can be bigots.

Clinton won only 65 percent of Latino voters, compared to Obama’s 71 percent four years ago. She performed this poorly against a candidate who ran on a program of building a wall along America’s southern border, a candidate who kicked off his campaign by calling Mexicans rapists.

Clinton won 34 percent of white women without college degrees. And she won just 54 percent of women overall, compared to Obama’s 55 percent in 2012. Clinton, of course, was running against a candidate who has gloated on film about grabbing women “by the pussy.”

This was Clinton’s election to lose. And she lost. A lot of the blame will fall on Clinton the candidate, but she only embodied the consensus of this generation of Democratic Party leaders. Under President Obama, Democrats have lost almost a thousand state-legislature seats, a dozen gubernatorial races, sixty-nine House seats and thirteen in the Senate. Last night didn’t come out of nowhere.

The problem with Clinton wasn’t her peculiarity but her typicality. It was characteristic of this Democratic Party that the power players in Washington decided on the nominee — with overwhelming endorsements — many months before a single ballot was cast.

They made a fateful choice for all of us by stacking the deck, decisively, against the kind of politics that could win: a working-class politics.

Seventy-two percent of Americans who voted last night believed that “the economy is rigged to the advantage of the rich and powerful.” Sixty-eight percent agreed that “traditional parties and politicians don’t care about people like me.”

Almost alone among Democratic politicians, Bernie Sanders spoke to this simmering sense of alienation and class anger. Sanders had a basic message for the American people: you deserve more and you are right to believe you do. Health care, college education, a living wage. It’s a message that has made him by far the most popular politician in the country.

Hillary Clinton’s formal platform approached some of Sanders’s concrete ideas, but repudiated its core message. For those in charge of the Democratic Party, it made no sense to rail against America. For them, America never stopped being great. And things have only been getting better.

Party leaders asked voters to hand politics over to them. They thought they had it under control. They were wrong. Now we all have to deal with the consequences. And we will.

This is a new era that requires a new type of politics — one that speaks to people’s pressing needs and hopes, rather than to their fears. Elite liberalism, it turns out, cannot defeat right-wing populism. We can’t move to Canada or hide under the bed. This is a moment to embrace democratic politics, not repudiate them.

https://www.jacobinmag.com/2016/11/trump-victory-clinton-sanders-democratic-party/

 

[DrForester]

Much as I can understand and respect his reasoning for doing so, part of me is really, really pissed at Biden for not running.

 

[B-Dubs]

Yeah I think Feingold is sort of a cautionary tale in Wisconsin. He DID appeal to rural working class voters and has historically appealed to them. What happened? He actually ran worse than Clinton.

That's the thing, there's no future in trying to appeal to the people that got Trump here. They showed up for him and his rhetoric. They showed up for all the othering and the racism. They never gave a shit about policy or getting help, they wanted someone to blame and to have their hate validated. Trump gave them both in spades.

 

[Fragamemnon]

For those of you who were active and voted in the disappointments of 2000 and '04: how does this compare?
I feel like a total zombie. Not tired, but like walking in a dream. The world is an absolutely surreal place today.

This is how I felt in 2004, as a twenty something. 2000 was weirder because of the way the event dragged out.

I'm down but not quite as down as 2004, despite the ramifications being far, far worse than that year. Life's gotta go on.

 

[Y2Kev]

HASSAN leads by 600 votes, jesus christ. How big are these remaining precincts?

 

[Plinko]

Wanted to share this Jacobim article. It's time to fight.

To believe that Trump’s appeal was entirely based on ethnic nationalism is to believe that a near majority of Americans are driven only by hate and a shared desire for a white supremacist political program.

We don’t believe that. And the facts don’t bear it out.

This election, in the words of New York Times analyst Nate Cohn, was decided by people who voted for Barack Obama in 2012. Not all of them can be bigots.


https://www.jacobinmag.com/2016/11/trump-victory-clinton-sanders-democratic-party/

Yep, which is why people need to stop with the "It was all the racists!" statements.

Much as I can understand and respect his reasoning for doing so, part of me is really, really pissed at Biden for not running.

The DNC wasn't letting ANYONE but Hillary get the nomination. It was rigged from the start.

 

[Revolver]

For those of you who were active and voted in the disappointments of 2000 and '04: how does this compare? For as long as I've been into politics, I've never really been on the losing side of a presidential election before ('04 was the first one I was into, and being a conservative teen at the time, I sided with Bush, which I'm still embarrassed about). I feel completely devastated today, but I don't know how much of that is just the unfamiliarity of losing like this or if it's rooted in the unique danger that Trump with a GOP-controlled government poses.

2000 was a letdown for me. But I didn't fear Bush to the core of my being. 2004 was disappointing but honestly I expected it. I've never felt so blindsided and crushed by an election like this one.

 

[A Serious Man]

They're already saying that the wall was "metaphorical", haha.

 

[tuffy]

For those of you who were active and voted in the disappointments of 2000 and '04: how does this compare? For as long as I've been into politics, I've never really been on the losing side of a presidential election before ('04 was the first one I was into, and being a conservative teen at the time, I sided with Bush, which I'm still embarrassed about). I feel completely devastated today, but I don't know how much of that is just the unfamiliarity of losing like this or if it's rooted in the unique danger that Trump with a GOP-controlled government poses.

This reminds me of 2000 in particular. An old Onion article captures it perfectly:

Bush: 'Our Long National Nightmare Of Peace And Prosperity Is Finally Over'

 

[Basileus777]

Much as I can understand and respect his reasoning for doing so, part of me is really, really pissed at Biden for not running.

He would have lost the primary anyway.

 

[IggyChooChoo]

For those of you who were active and voted in the disappointments of 2000 and '04: how does this compare? For as long as I've been into politics, I've never really been on the losing side of a presidential election before ('04 was the first one I was into, and being a conservative teen at the time, I sided with Bush, which I'm still embarrassed about). I feel completely devastated today, but I don't know how much of that is just the unfamiliarity of losing like this or if it's rooted in the unique danger that Trump with a GOP-controlled government poses.



Same. I, somehow, fell asleep only at 4am...and was up at 6.

I feel like a total zombie. Not tired, but like walking in a dream. The world is an absolutely surreal place today.

Worst ever, because the GOP is worse now, and Trump is worse. GWB had some restraint, respect for institutions, and curiosity about issues.

 

[Holmes]

I'm so scared. I don't want to lose my health care. I'm an immigrant in a gay marriage to a latino. I'm scared.

 

[Doc Holliday]

For those of you who were active and voted in the disappointments of 2000 and '04: how does this compare? For as long as I've been into politics, I've never really been on the losing side of a presidential election before ('04 was the first one I was into, and being a conservative teen at the time, I sided with Bush, which I'm still embarrassed about). I feel completely devastated today, but I don't know how much of that is just the unfamiliarity of losing like this or if it's rooted in the unique danger that Trump with a GOP-controlled government poses.

I

Same. I, somehow, fell asleep only at 4am...and was up at 6.

I feel like a total zombie. Not tired, but like walking in a dream. The world is an absolutely surreal place today.

Far worse, Romney and Bush didn't run campaigns like the Trump did.

 

[mjp2417]

I live in Philly.

My train ride into work has never been so quiet.

Boston feels like the day after the Marathon bombing this morning. It's actually pretty eerie

 

[hipsterpants]

aw fuck it, Kander 2020

"experience" is basically a meme now anyway

 

[royalan]

I think the reality is that we haven't had as much progress in this country as we liked, but I still think it is trending in the right direction. It is just more oscillatory. We are in a valley right now unfortunately.

We were trending in the right direction because we had a president to veto all the ways a Republican Congress wanted to send us to the stone age

If Republicans stand by their word, this means goodbye to:

Affordable healthcare
Immigration reform
Criminal Justice Reform
A balanced Supreme Court
Gay Marriage
Trade
Healthy relationships with our allies.

There's no trending up from this if Republicans do what they say they are going to do. And with the mandate they got last night, why wouldn't they.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

The south/south west is where we win. Georgia, NC, Texas.

These states we can win with the right candidate and a lot of work. And these states win us the election

The midwest has been trending red for awhile. The south has been trending blue for awhile. Let's attack the points we were already trending, rather than trying to fix the bleeding in states that will go hopelessly red eventually.

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

I am so terrified for Muslim American right now, I'm so sorry.

But seriously, Socialists need to explain why Feingold lost so badly if they want to not look dumb.

 

[Oriel]

Still in a state of shock over last night. Not one part of me thought Clinton could lose, I genuinely believed she'd be President-Elect today. But instead now we see Trump as America's 45th president. Christ help us.

To tell you the truth this election has only confirmed what I was afraid of, but didn't want to admit: that, worldwide, fascism is once again in vogue and on the march. Watch the next French and German elections, FN and AFD will probably surge in support. And it's no surprise really, these populist assholes are coordinating their efforts using our own freedoms against us. Russian controlled media provides the new fascist movement with a platform from which to destroy the free West from within.

Why hasn't RT been shut down yet? Why does Putin meddle in our affairs while we sit back doing nothing? I'll tell you why, because we're fucking soft as shite, that's why. We bleat on about respecting opposing POV's but refuse to fight back and defend our ways. Going low worked for the GOP! The moral high ground only exists in some kumbiya, let's all be friends fantasy world doesn't exist in the real world. We're being fucking trampled into the dirt and do nothing about it.

The Dems are pussies, it's time they all grow a pair of balls and stop being fucking doormats for the far right to wipe their shit all over onto. /rant over

(I'm done with politics now and just going to binge on games for the foreseeable future)

 

[plagiarize]

For those of you who were active and voted in the disappointments of 2000 and '04: how does this compare? For as long as I've been into politics, I've never really been on the losing side of a presidential election before ('04 was the first one I was into, and being a conservative teen at the time, I sided with Bush, which I'm still embarrassed about). I feel completely devastated today, but I don't know how much of that is just the unfamiliarity of losing like this or if it's rooted in the unique danger that Trump with a GOP-controlled government poses.

It's that, plus seeing the supreme court snatched away from us. With huge heaps of uncertainty about what Trump is actually going to do, since we know a lot of his campaign promises are non starters.

 

[ShadowSwordmaster]

Boston feels like the day after the Marathon bombing this morning. It's actually pretty eerie

I feel like this will happen through out the week in different places.

 

[HylianTom]

2000 was a letdown for me. But I didn't fear Bush to the core of my being. 2004 was disappointing but honestly I expected it. I've never felt so blindsided and crushed by an election like this one.

Yup.

This one is more difficult. In 2000, tilting the court and lurching the country leftward was a theoretical thing. In 2016, we could literally see the empty seat, waiting for us.

Still numb this morning. My main bright spot is knowing that >80% of my city didn't go along with this man. But I also had to witness my husband weeping when he awoke and saw the news. I can handle a lot, but that breaks me.

This one will haunt us for decades.

 

[RustyNails]

For those of you who were active and voted in the disappointments of 2000 and '04: how does this compare? For as long as I've been into politics, I've never really been on the losing side of a presidential election before ('04 was the first one I was into, and being a conservative teen at the time, I sided with Bush, which I'm still embarrassed about). I feel completely devastated today, but I don't know how much of that is just the unfamiliarity of losing like this or if it's rooted in the unique danger that Trump with a GOP-controlled government poses.



Same. I, somehow, fell asleep only at 4am...and was up at 6.

I feel like a total zombie. Not tired, but like walking in a dream. The world is an absolutely surreal place today.

2004 was a crushing defeat. I was more against W than pro Kerry. But this feels like the earth got swallowed by itself.

 

[Cesare Borgia]

Much as I can understand and respect his reasoning for doing so, part of me is really, really pissed at Biden for not running.

He would have lost the primary. He was pushed out early, before his son died; his stubborn pride would have resulted in him still jumping in, if not for his son dying.

Same with Jeb and his donors pushing out Romney.

 

[IggyChooChoo]

I am guessing it just came down to the huge surge in trump voters who voted downticket and didn't really follow the senate race at all.

Feingold still should have run ahead of Hillary given his Bernie-esque policy leanings and his sterling rep in Wisconsin.

 

[i_am_ben]

What can't be changed must be endured.

 

[Boke1879]

Have to remember that Trump won the Republican primary first. Everyone there was selling the standard Republican economic message. So what was Trump selling in that that his opponents weren't?

Mostly it was the big GOP field and him just flinging shit. It was entertaining. Also his dog whistling played well

 

[Teggy]

Ok, said I was going to take a break and probably will but I saw this morning the problem was nobody voted? Lowest turnout since 2000? Terrible.

 

[nature boy]

I'm guessing Kamala is too green for a 2020 run?

Cuomo can't win a GE imo

Who else is there? Kander needed to win the Senate race to be in the game.

 

[whyamihere]

I commit to making every single day of the next four years the worst day of Donald Trump's life.

 

[shinra-bansho]

She was a terrible candidate because she lost. We didn't know she would lose.
If she had won she wouldn't have been terrible. We wouldn't have known she was terrible.
Schroedinger's terrible.

 

[Blader]

If we're going to go with a politician, is Kander such a bad choice?

Dude ran SIXTEEN points ahead of Hillary in MO. That's unprecedented in this day and ago.

This is partly why I was so hoping he'd win. He seemed like a potential presidential candidate for 2024 or something. But he lost, so that's that.

 

[pigeon]

Wanted to share this Jacobim article. It's time to fight.



https://www.jacobinmag.com/2016/11/trump-victory-clinton-sanders-democratic-party/

This article perfectly sums up why the white "socialists" who elected Trump can't be trusted to tell us what to do next.

 

[Y2Kev]

Yep, which is why people need to stop with the "It was all the racists!" statements.



The DNC wasn't letting ANYONE but Hillary get the nomination. It was rigged from the start.

Oh, don't do this. It wasn't rigged.

 

[Frustrated_me]

Fuck was it ever annoying here when I tried to reason why people were voting for Trump. Every single time I mentioned it people jumped on me and cornered the conversation. Of course it wasn't just me either, it was so many people just simply trying to voice their opinion. Instead, what you guys did was SHAME and try to EMBARRASS those people alike.

"ARE YOU A TRUMP VOTER!?"
"Ohh, haha, you're one of the they're both bad candidates"
"You're voting for a sexual predator"
"LOOK AT THIS LIST OF POLICY"
"You're a sexist too!"
"You're a racist too!"

Etc, etc.

It was insufferable at times. All I wanted to do was share my opinion as to why (rural America especially) people may want to vote Trump.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

I'm guessing Kamala is too green for a 2020 run?

Cuomo can't win a GE imo

Who else is there? Kander needed to win the Senate race to be in the game.

Cuomo would be a disaster.

 

[bachikarn]

We were trending in the right direction because we had a president to veto all the ways a Republican Congress wanted to send us to the stone age

If Republicans stand by their word, this means goodbye to:

Affordable healthcare
Immigration reform
Criminal Justice Reform
A balanced Supreme Court
Gay Marriage
Trade
Healthy relationships with our allies.

There's no trending up from this if Republicans do what they say they are going to do. And with the mandate they got last night, why wouldn't they.

I agree that the damage that is done from this will take a while to recover from. I guess when i said progress it was more about how many 'deplorables' there are in this country. They were inspired this election, liberals weren't. Next election, it will flip again IMO. A horrible president with a good candidate that promises change will motivate people next time.

 

[Snowman Prophet of Doom]

I am so terrified for Muslim American right now, I'm so sorry.

But seriously, Socialists need to explain why Feingold lost so badly if they want to not look dumb.

If Bernie had gotten some of that white rage turned toward the rich and corporations, it's likely that would have benefited the downticket because human beings are follower creatures that mostly take their cues from the top.

That's an if, of course, but fuck, it's very apparent Clinton was the wrong fucking candidate on every level.

Edit: If your solution is to corner white America even more, get ready to get fucked even harder next time.

 

[eBay Huckster]

I'm guessing Kamala is too green for a 2020 run?

Kamala is approximately as green as Obama was

 

[thepotatoman]

I think the reality is that we haven't had as much progress in this country as we liked, but I still think it is trending in the right direction. It is just more oscillatory. We are in a valley right now unfortunately.

It'd be a valley if clinton won while democrats lost the senate.

What we're looking at is a cliff, and a ton of progress is going to be actively undone.

 

[sphagnum]

This article perfectly sums up why the white "socialists" who elected Trump can't be trusted to tell us what to do next.

Pretty sure no socialists voted for Trump.