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[Plinko]

Even if they didn't vote for racism, they sure as hell proved they don't have a problem with it.

Not the issue. Voting for something and not having a problem with it are two entirely different things.

 

[Poodlestrike]

Establishment loves trade deals they most likely won't allow Trump to exit them, but what would be the consequences?

Many things that Trump said he will do on the election really didn't happen.

I don't see the "establishment" standing up to Trump on ANYTHING. Look what they've done so far? Laughably ineffectual resistance in the primary, and waffling half-support that always broke his way the second the slightest breeze blew in his favor.

 

[B-Dubs]

Similar to what happened with credit card companies and Delaware correct?

Exactly what happened with credit card companies and Delaware. Also, I don't think it'll do shit for premium costs.

 

[pigeon]

Show me your sources that say all rural whites voted because of racism yesterday.

People have repeated this talking point a hundred times today and I've made the same response every time.

It does not matter whether they voted because of racism. Racism is what they voted for. If they voted for racism not because they love racism but because they had other priorities, that is actually worse. People who authentically believe in racism might change their minds one day and become intersectional. People who acknowledge that racism exists but just don't care that much about it can never be trusted to prioritize the lives of people of color over their pocketbook.

 

[Randolph Freelander]

I don't see why? The GOP knows she's done for good now, they have no more reason to go after her.

Right. Who knows about Trump's vindictiveness, but there's nothing in harassing Hillary any longer for the GOP. They played the game they had to and won.

 

[maabus1999]

So...

The wall.
Special prosecutor for Clinton, and "she'll be in jail."
Muslim ban.
Repeal Obamacare.
Exit NAFTA/TPP, tax Apple and others in a dumb way expecting them to bring jobs from China to the U.S.

Which of these happen?

This would cause an honest constitutional crisis as it would be banana republic "go after opponents" crisis. Won't happen; he'll just make an excuse for unity reasons and she will never touch classified again (which is true on the latter as Clinton is done from Politics).

 

[MetalGearZed]

I think the real sad thing is that the Democrats really no choice but to choose a white man in 2020.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

Muslim ban is gone from his campaign promises on his site

He's just going to keep chipping away at these ridiculous policies until he's just a generic R

I think the real sad thing is that the Democrats really no choice but to choose a white man in 2020.

I was thinking we have no choice but to go with a minority man 100% of the time, without fail or we will lose. We need that 2008-2012 minority blowouts to stay alive.

 

[Trouble]

Right. Who knows about Trump's vindictiveness, but there's nothing in harassing Hillary any longer for the GOP. They played the game they had to and won.

I don't think Trump will do the special prosecutor thing and I don't think his base actually cares now that he won.

He actually said nice things about her at his acceptance speech and the crowd even clapped for her. She is defeated, no one cares about her emails any more.

 

[RastaMentality]

If there's any terrorist attack these four years (which has a high chance of happening!) the muslim ban will go into effect in some way.

 

[VanMardigan]

As a latino with 4 kids.....this hurts man. I know #notallwhites and all, but this stings. I have a trip to Tennessee in December and a trip to Arizona in January, thinking of maybe cancelling both. Not sure either place feels safe for me right now.

 

[Plinko]

They're hostile to immigration, they're hostile to BLM's message, they're as clannish as liberals and about as demeaning toward minorities as they think liberals are toward them.

Shockingly (not really), there are compromises that can be made by both sides on both of those issues.

Look, they're economically anxious, sure. They also hate the fuck out of people who don't look, pray, or have relationships like them. Both of those things can be true at the same time.

This has been true since time immemorial. They love handouts until brown and black people are getting them. Appealing to them naturally means that you can't appeal to brown and black people.

Again, this is a blanket statement. You absolutely cannot have this attitude if you ever want to get these people to hear your argument. Are the loud ones this way? Sure. I've spent over 30 years in rural areas, schools, and businesses in different states in the Midwest. I can tell you emphatically that these ones are a definite minority in that group.

People have repeated this talking point a hundred times today and I've made the same response every time.

It does not matter whether they voted because of racism. Racism is what they voted for. If they voted for racism not because they love racism but because they had other priorities, that is actually worse. People who authentically believe in racism might change their minds one day and become intersectional. People who acknowledge that racism exists but just don't care that much about it can never be trusted to prioritize the lives of people of color over their pocketbook.

So you have nothing. You and I obviously aren't going to see eye to eye on this issue, which is fine. I respect your opinion even though I disagree.

 

[metalslimer]

Oh no those poor little rural white voters just were forced into voting for a racist. It's not their fault.

Give me a damn break.

 

[QuiteWhittle]

I don't see the "establishment" standing up to Trump on ANYTHING. Look what they've done so far? Laughably ineffectual resistance in the primary, and waffling half-support that always broke his way the second the slightest breeze blew in his favor.

I don't think the establishment has to stand up to anything because Trump won't push any of his crazy policies. He said what he had to say to win, get "President of the United States" on his Wikipedia page, and fraternize with the ultra-powerful.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

If there's any terrorist attack these four years (which has a high chance of happening!) the muslim ban will go into effect in some way.

Unless Trump gets to replace half the bench (which he won't be able to), he's not going to be able to get it past the SC.

 

[B-Dubs]

If there's any terrorist attack these four years (which has a high chance of happening!) the muslim ban will go into effect in some way.

Also martial law.

 

[SerAardvark]

Trump already walked the Wall promise back a few days ago - now it's something he's going to build and then ask Mexico to reimburse the US for. My guess is he'll keep walking it back and give the excuse that he "couldn't risk putting the burden on American taxpayers if Mexico didn't pay" or something like that.

 

[Crocodile]

Beside being impossible to implement or enforce, wouldn't the Muslim ban be unconstitutional?

Not the issue. Voting for something and not having a problem with it are two entirely different things.

No they aren't.

 

[studyguy]

At the end of the day, the GOP has defeated the Clinton boogeyman. The best they have is Obama programs they may or may not blame him for in the first 4 years, but beyond that it's GOP problems if shit goes south.

Anyway back to the issue,
If some rural white guy is mad I live in a city, am I'm supposed to feel bad about it? I don't know what anyone realistically thinks can be done about people who don't want to (or can't economically) move, don't want to get more education, insist on rebuilding industries that won't come back anytime soon and pine for an age I wasn't born in and won't be coming back. I mean what do you do with that? I get that economically somehow I'm at an advantage despite the fact my cost of living is astronomically higher and owning a home is a far away dream here but what do people really want?

 

[ZealousD]

So...

The wall.
Special prosecutor for Clinton, and "she'll be in jail."
Muslim ban.
Repeal Obamacare.
Exit NAFTA/TPP, tax Apple and others in a dumb way expecting them to bring jobs from China to the U.S.

Which of these happen?

-The wall will be needed to appease his base in four years. There will be an attempt to have something built.
-The media would rake him over the coals for this and there's very little benefit for himself. Clinton's brand is dead so he doesn't have to worry about her posing a threat in the future. I would file this under unlikely. It was red meat for his base but no longer serves a purpose.
-Blatantly unconstitutional and there was already some waffling of language about the specifics. There might be some policy that resembles the muslim ban without actually being a real muslim ban. Hard to say.
-Obamacare is gone. The political fallout on the right would be greater if it wasn't repealed than if it was. Republicans are scared of their base.
-This is harder to do. Congressional Republicans might actually fight him on this. This will probably come down to local politics.

 

[Suikoguy]

Muslim ban is gone from his campaign promises on his site

He's just going to keep chipping away at these ridiculous policies until he's just a generic R.

That would lead to the most depressed Republican turnout in my lifetime in 2020 with 2018 being more of a crapshoot than expected.

 

[Mobius and pet octopus]

I think the real sad thing is that the Democrats really no choice but to choos a white man in 2020.

Do you really think Clinton lost because she is a woman? The majority of people in the country voted for Clinton and Obama the past 3 elections. I think generalizations like this are harmful and have been very harmful this past election.

 

[Poodlestrike]

I feel like we are circling the drain and the only real suggestions I've heard was "talk less about issues important to minorities" or "be a charismatic minority so you can appeal to at least one block without having to talk much about issues important to minorities". There isn't a meaningful difference between "I'm racist" and "I'm not racist but I voted for someone who was overtly racist" - the end is still the same. We've established that the Democrats have better policies to alleviate most of their concerns. Can someone please tell me for the love of what is holy what exactly needs to be said to this group that doesn't in any way coddle any sentiment of _____ism some of them may have?

Policies are irrelevant here. What matters is rhetoric and charisma. We can accomplish this without toning down minority-focused policy; in fact, we need to dial them up. We need to build our stated policy proposals based on what the soundbites will be. "JUSTICE FOR ALL!" plays a lot better than "I hear your pain and smart, focused justice reform will be a major part of my administration," and it takes up less airtime, so you can also talk about taking back the system from the people rigging it against regular hardworking Americans etc. Package soaring impossible promises with a charismatic candidate with a fresh face and we're game.

I don't see why? The GOP knows she's done for good now, they have no more reason to go after her.

Because they are vindictive, petty fucks and they hate Hillary Clinton more than just about anybody.

 

[pigeon]

So you have nothing.

Never change, Plinko.

 

[MetalGearZed]

We 100% are elitists.

When the results were coming into Florida, I kept yelling at the TV about how the "swamp people" were going to ruin America and how only the big cities should have any say at all because rural America is like 5 people who don't know how to care for themselves.

So yea, we're kind of bad at that.

yep, all those hicks, rednecks, swamp people, whatever you want to call them; we have to actually teach them now. thats the way forward. we weren't strong enough to leave them behind

sigh

 

[Totakeke]

I don't see the "establishment" standing up to Trump on ANYTHING. Look what they've done so far? Laughably ineffectual resistance in the primary, and waffling half-support that always broke his way the second the slightest breeze blew in his favor.

They were saving their own hides, they believed that the country would be at worst at a standstill with Hillary as the president and a Republican House. They are deplorables for sure, but now with Trump as president and possibly the fate of the world in their hands? I hope the Bushes and McCains realize that losing their careers is far from the worst that could happen to them.

Well, we can only hope.

 

[Cybit]

Huh

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/11/08/us/elections/exit-poll-analysis.html

Am I reading this right...and Trump got a higher share of the hispanic and black vote, while just maintaining the white vote? o_0

 

[B-Dubs]

Beside being impossible to implement or enforce, wouldn't the Muslim ban be unconstitutional?

It wouldn't be the first time a president told the courts to go fuck themselves.

Huh

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/11/08/us/elections/exit-poll-analysis.html

Am I reading this right...and Trump got a higher share of the hispanic and black vote, while just maintaining the white vote? o_0

It's likely due to decreased turnout messing with the margins.

 

[Elaugaufein]

That's what they voted for.

We have to deal with reality as it is, not as how white liberals would like to imagine it to be to absolve their relatives of guilt.

This isn't how voting for a party candidate works, even if you're not effectively forced into two options by FPTP/WTA systems. The number of people who agree with every position of the party they vote for is tiny, a vote is merely indicates you prefer the total of all policy positions to that offered by the other(s).

 

[Barzul]

Tom Cotton must be one the biggest piece of shits in the Senate.

After Obama in 2008, I was really looking forward to never seeing these assholes in any sort of power. Feeling pretty depressed that they will now once again be able to fuck up the US and the world with their destructive neocon policies.

He let a woman die while awaiting confirmation on an ambassadorial position because she and Obama were friends and he thought that would "hurt" him the most. Even Ted fucking Cruz gave up on stalling her confirmation but Cotton, he persisted and then she died suddenly while having never been confirmed. Some Republicans are truly evil, not just twisted ideology, but actual fermenting evil.

Cassandra Butts: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cassandra_Butts

 

[Plinko]

Oh no those poor little rural white voters just were forced into voting for a racist. It's not their fault.

Give me a damn break.

Literally nobody in here is arguing they were forced into voting.

No they aren't.

They absolutely are.

 

[LostMyNarbles]

The Muslim ban is gone from his website. Not sure if that is telling of something or just a coincidence that it was removed after he won.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...rants-website-statement-removed-a7408466.html

 

[balladofwindfishes]

Do you really think Clinton lost because she is a woman? The majority of people in the country voted for Clinton and Obama the past 3 elections. I think generalizations like this are harmful and have been very harmful this past election.

She didn't necessarily lose due to being a woman, but the double standards during the entire race were blatant. Hillary had to deal with people talking about how she lacked stamina, sounded shrill, looked ugly, and other things Donald didn't really have to deal with at all.

 

[sazzy]

There is a good chance that comey and by extension weiner cost the election.

60% people had their minds made up before Sep 2016.

 

[Suikoguy]

Huh

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/11/08/us/elections/exit-poll-analysis.html

Am I reading this right...and Trump got a higher share of the hispanic and black vote, while just maintaining the white vote? o_0

It's based on exit polls, i'd like to see an analysis of vote records.
Polling was shit this election.

60% people had their minds made up before Sep 2016.

Yeah? and? A half percent could very well have changed the winner.

 

[Plinko]

Never change, Plinko.

I at least am backing my thoughts up with decades of anecdotal experience. I figured with how strong your statement was, you'd have something backing you up. That's all. Again, I respect your opinion. I just strongly disagree.

 

[UltimaPooh]

Show me your sources that say all rural whites voted because of racism yesterday. You talk about "reality," but you have the exact same attitude that cost the democrats the election.

You don't need sources.

These supposed not racist/sexist people might not be racist/sexist in their everyday personal lives... but they were willing to compromise their moral values on that for a man who they think will fix the economy or some other issue.

They might not be racist/sexists buy they are fine with racism and sexism. And they should have to live with that and their choice.

 

[Syncytia]

Was just listening to NPR on my way home and I'm really pissed.

There's talk that an infrastructure bill will be passed. Something Obama has been trying to do for years and has been blocked by republicans. Oh, but now that their team is going to be in the White House we can do it.

Fucking spineless pieces of shit who put party over country.

 

[metalslimer]

60% people had their minds made up before Sep 2016.

The margins in the Midwest states are so small that even small things could have flipped the election.

 

[shinra-bansho]

She said nice things to him on the phone I assume.
So he won't lock her up.

 

[UnemployedVillain]

Show me your sources that say all rural whites voted because of racism yesterday. You talk about "reality," but you have the exact same attitude that cost the democrats the election.

Show me sources that say all liberals are elitist and exclusive then. You speak like someone too naive to understand those truths or too optimistic to acknowledge the fact they might be true.

Yeah, you're right, calling people out does lead to further polarization, but sometimes people have to be. Look how much more receptive people are to the idea of privilege (baby steps) versus just a few years back

 

[Bonen no Max'd]

Huh

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/11/08/us/elections/exit-poll-analysis.html

Am I reading this right...and Trump got a higher share of the hispanic and black vote, while just maintaining the white vote? o_0

Unsure about hispanic groups, but I think he won the tiny black Republican group Romney did and decreased turnout made that a larger share of the black electorate.

 

[Abinash117]

I don't see the "establishment" standing up to Trump on ANYTHING. Look what they've done so far? Laughably ineffectual resistance in the primary, and waffling half-support that always broke his way the second the slightest breeze blew in his favor.

It has been said that they legitimately thought he wasn't going to win the primary. But they were fickle about the tape. The establishment are extremely pro big business trade deals benefit them; what they are going to try to do is sell to Trump, but I doubt it'll work because both liberal dems and some reps don't like it.

 

[Slime]

Haven't slept in over 24 hours. Had a good cry with my mom.

I've never been this scared for the world.

 

[FunkyMunkey]

can't provide a screenshot but the front page of cnn is a nightmare come true

 

[jmdajr]

Haven't slept in over 24 hours. Had a good cry with my mom.

I've never been this scared for the world.

We'll get through it.

Keep going.

 

[ZealousD]

Because they are vindictive, petty fucks and they hate Hillary Clinton more than just about anybody.

There is nothing to gain and everything to lose by locking her away. It is absolutely best for everybody in the GOP if she disappears never to be heard from again. They got what she wanted. She won't be president. Beating the dead horse would only serve to ignite tensions for no good reason.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

yep, all those hicks, rednecks, swamp people, whatever you want to call them; we have to actually teach them now. thats the way forward. we weren't strong enough to leave them behind

sigh

I don't even particularly like suburbs.

But anyway, I was saying yea, Democrats are elitist and we might want to tone it down some. I'd consider myself a normal, rational person who tried to be nice, but even I often let it slip how much I dislike rural communities and look down on them.

 

[Elaugaufein]

Huh

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/11/08/us/elections/exit-poll-analysis.html

Am I reading this right...and Trump got a higher share of the hispanic and black vote, while just maintaining the white vote? o_0

Part of it is lower turnout (from Democrats more than Republicans) which increases the percentage of Hispanic / Black vote Trump got as a consequence. You'd expect that from the black vote with Obama no longer on the ballot , not sure what happened with Hispanics.

 

[pigeon]

While I wait to hear more about Bernie Sanders, here's a little light reading.

Almost 59 million people voted for Donald Trump yesterday. On January 20, 2017, Donald Trump will become the 45th president of the United States.

Simply put, a lot of white people learned last night that white supremacy is everybody’s problem. Black people have been saying that for generations, but now it seems to finally be abundantly clear. But this isn’t the world of forecasting. There is no satisfaction or reward in “I told you so” — the constant signal flares were not sent in the name of being right; they were meant to hopefully prevent this from happening. We said it partially to urge you to “get your people,” but what was under that was “Please, just once, bail us out.”

It didn’t happen. White people who are appalled by every facet of Trump’s existence: You didn’t come through. And that wasn’t an Election Day ask; that was a please, convert a few family members by November 8 ask. You didn’t do that. And you didn’t do it because it’s uncomfortable. And you didn’t do it because it’s hard. And you didn’t do it because you don’t want to feel in any way connected to the people who represent the opposite of the things you stand for....

Barack Obama faced incessant bigotry for the duration of his two landmark terms, but the focus on his blackness (and his perceived ties to Islam) masked an additional threat he posed — one that is steeped in racism but isn’t just about skin color. Barack Obama is the embodiment of two things: what happens when a maligned group successfully plays catch-up, and what happens when a space that’s always been whites-only suddenly has its party crashed.

These two realities may help explain the support of Trump’s truest base of working-class rural/exurban whites, which he won by a huge margin, according to exit polls; and also the portion of the traditionally Republican white upper class whose support he managed to hold on to, outperforming predictions that Hillary would win that group....

The story of America for many is a seemingly never-ending process of playing catch-up. The perspective of those at the back of the line has been a tunnel-vision reality of knowing who is holding you down. Black people focus on white racists, gay people are consumed with protecting themselves from homophobes, women struggle to exist freely in a man’s world, Muslims and Mexican immigrants feel the weight of the world against them from “true” Americans. This created a complicated ecosystem for the historically abused — a shared understanding of what it means to be discriminated against, but also a quiet resentment over who has it worse. Because if you’re the worst off, you’re at the bottom, but you have a reason to scream the loudest, avoiding perhaps the most frustrating status: invisibility.

Now we’re faced with a clear reality: one group that hates us all....

Yeah, it’s hate — but white supremacy has always been based in fear. Trump’s election is a sign that every other group in this country was getting too smart, too skilled, too American — too fast. This outcome was a panicked victory, a necessary win for white people who don’t have much going for them outside of the historical advantage of being white.

Growing up, I always found an odd pride in how white slave masters would stop at nothing to prevent slaves from learning to read. There was always this clear (but unspoken) undercurrent that, should enslaved black people get smart enough, they’d figure out a way to rid themselves of this inhumane experience we subject them to, and then we’re done for. Slaves helped build America while white people sat and watched — but beneath that hate lay white paranoia and insecurity over their ability to compete on an equal playing field.

We saw those same two emotions — paranoia and insecurity — throughout 2016, and they were such powerful emotions, they resulted in Donald Trump becoming the president of the United States.

You don’t see America, the melting pot of cultures, genders, religions, beliefs, as a good thing if you can’t keep up. You hate it with an aggressive irrationality — typically while being unable to explain why you feel the way you do — if you’ve never met anyone who isn’t just like you. And you resent it when the systems you created to make people become overqualified just to attain near-equality come back to threaten your relevancy, your status, or your power.

All of the groups that felt the wrath of these white people in 2016 have to somehow find a way to fight back, to save America. The reason it’s so hard for the country to actually change is because these white people have so little left, whether it be economic or cultural relevancy. This election was potentially their final hand, and they pushed their chips all in. And wouldn’t you know it, it fucking worked. But know their celebrations aren’t confident ones, filled with true elation. On the contrary, this is a very real sigh of relief, one that you get from a new lease on life, the one that stands between bringing back the archaic ways of old and permanently becoming a fossil.

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2016/11/how-trump-made-hate-intersectional.html