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PoliGAF 2016 |OT15| Orange is the New Black

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If we are talking what the Dems should do. They need a witch hunt in the DNC. Bring in some young white guy (Kander pls) and have them publicly name and shame people out of the DNC and make a damn show of it. Even if there is no actual corruption. Give someone the "cleaned up the DNC" title and have him run for office in 2018. Dems need to make every day about being the open and transparent party compared to the Trump admin and GOP.
 
T

thepotatoman

Unconfirmed Member
The fuck is this shit. After that "no comment" earlier I thought he was going to come out spitting fire. Instead its this?

Now is not the time to be spitting fire. The election is over and democrats have to accept the results and pretend to be optimistic up until trump makes his next big blunder, which I'm sure will be soon.

To do otherwise just looks petty.
 

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
It's just a statement, guys. Even the Republican's sent out similar ones when Obama got elected and reelected.

For all that I have problems with Sanders, I am still actually stunned that the man who spits so much fire that its actually maybe his biggest political flaw came out with this milquetoast statement on the day we elected Donald Fucking Trump
 

pigeon

Banned
The New England Commonwealth

NY
ME
NH
VT
CT
RI
NJ
DE
DC
MD

The United Atlantic States

VA
NC
SC
GA
FL

Rustbelt Republic

PA
OH
IN
MI

The Midwest Alliance

WI
IL
MN

The New California Republic

WA
OR
CA
NV
UT
AZ
CO
NM

Anchorage State

AK

Hawaii

HI

The Confederate States of America

All the rest.


IS EVERYONE HAPPY NOW!?

As fun as it would be to restore the Hawaiian monarchy (and it would be fun), I don't think that Hawaii could survive as an independent country. Take us to Cascadia plz.
 
51R3oxF5ozL._SX323_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg


The fascists can have the land stretching east to west from Arizona to Florida, with a southern border to Mexico and a northern border that cuts from Carson City all the way across.

The people who want to live here in the 21st Century can take the rest of the former states.

Our country should have most of the video game nerds and enough money to buy lots of drones, so we can defend our southern border if need be.

This sounds like a perfect plan. Nothing could possibly go wrong!
 
Wait what's wrong with the statement?

He's yielding to Trump's premise that he's not racist, he's just soothing people's economic anxiety.

It's the same stupid bullshit the Democrats have been doing since forever. We always yield the premise that the Republicans are good for the economy, for security, for everything but "identity politics."
 

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
Now is not the time to be spitting fire. The election is over and democrats have to accept the results and pretend to be optimistic up until trump makes his next big blunder, which I'm sure will be soon.

To do otherwise just looks petty.
I get that from everyone else, but I guess I expected something different from Bernie after all this
 

benjipwns

Banned
this probably got posted, the real divide:
Dave WassermanVerified account
‏@Redistrict
Donald Trump won 76% of counties w/ a Cracker Barrel & 22% of counties w/ a Whole Foods -- a 54% gap. In '92, gap b/t same counties was 19%.

Dave WassermanVerified account
‏@Redistrict
Whole Foods vs. Cracker Barrel culture gap over time:

1992: 19%
1996: 23%
2000: 31%
2004: 39%
2008: 43%
2012: 46%
2016: 54%
 

sazzy

Member
Oh fuck this shit. Condemn his ass, condemn the fucking people who were totally cool with racism and homophobia and shit, don't give them an out.

Saying it's all economic anxiety that drove this gives his voters an out, a way to say that no they are not racist or ok with racism. They should be forced to face what they are and created. Not to be given an easy out. They don't deserve it.

EDIT: Shit like this is why we keep losing. Because we refuse to twist the knife. I see that now.

The fuck is this shit. After that "no comment" earlier I thought he was going to come out spitting fire. Instead its this?

Some weak ass shit from the supposed new leader of liberals. Democrats are going to cave on everything. I hope Warren can do better than this.

Already tripping over ourselves. We need resistance not apprehensive wait and see from Congress.

Democrats are fucked.
 
On the bright side, it's not 2004. It's 2016, we know how to win elections and what success tastes like. We lost perhaps the most important election in a long time though, and there are consequences. Namely the successes of the past. A lot of that will be gone before the Fourth Of July next year.

So what do we do? Sit online and smugly pat ourselves on the back, call people bigots, etc? Yea we can do some of that, I probably will a few times this year and next year. But I'm hoping we mainly look in our communities and figure out what we can do. How can you connect to people in person, not over the phone/online. How can you take your party back. The Clinton era is over, thank fucking god. The "Obama Coalition" has to decide whether it's going to be a coalition, what that means, and what it's willing to do going forward. I'm not going to mince words: a lot of people let the president down. He had our backs for 8 years and now those 8 years don't mean much of anything. It's over. Now we have to rebuild, and he's not going to be on the ballot. So...

A lot of people are going to lose things they took for granted. A lot of people didn't know the stakes. Well now we all do, and it's up to us to figure out what's next. As I said I think it's going to start in our communities and neighborhoods.
 

PBY

Banned
He's yielding to Trump's premise that he's not racist, he's just soothing people's economic anxiety.

It's the same stupid bullshit the Democrats have been doing since forever. We always yield the premise that the Republicans are good for the economy, for security, for everything but "identity politics."
I get that - but It doesn't matter anymore.

The goal now is to actually govern and not let madness get out of hand. Contain the damage.
 

pigeon

Banned
I guess Hillary's speech was week also? She didn't go all in, etc.

I don't want to go back and point out the differences between Hillary's speech and Sanders's statement because I doubt you are engaging in good faith on the topic.

But I will summarize by saying that if you read through Hillary's speech you won't find a single suggestion that Trump supporters were motivated by economic anxiety (false), free trade (false), or rigged government systems (super false). Hillary was pretty clear -- we fought for an intersectional America. We lost to people who didn't want that. No apologism. No suggestion that they are not, well, deplorable. I appreciated her for that all year and I appreciated it today.
 
On the bright side, it's not 2004. It's 2016, we know how to win elections and what success tastes like. We lost perhaps the most important election in a long time though, and there are consequences. Namely the successes of the past. A lot of that will be gone before the Fourth Of July next year.

So what do we do? Sit online and smugly pat ourselves on the back, call people bigots, etc? Yea we can do some of that, I probably will a few times this year and next year. But I'm hoping we mainly look in our communities and figure out what we can do. How can you connect to people in person, not over the phone/online. How can you take your party back. The Clinton era is over, thank fucking god. The "Obama Coalition" has to decide whether it's going to be a coalition, what that means, and what it's willing to do going forward. I'm not going to mince words: a lot of people let the president down. He had our backs for 8 years and now those 8 years don't mean much of anything. It's over. Now we have to rebuild, and he's not going to be on the ballot. So...

A lot of people are going to lose things they took for granted. A lot of people didn't know the stakes. Well now we all do, and it's up to us to figure out what's next. As I said I think it's going to start in our communities and neighborhoods.

There is no proven method of reducing racism in conversations. None. We need way more research in trying to convert people over to non-racism.
 
I've never had a problem talking to Bush/Romney republicans; I have friends and family who are those types of Republicans. I have had heated discussions with them throughout the years about conservative vs. liberal solutions for the problems facing America but never have I felt that they disagreed with me about the core tenants, values, and ideals that America and Americans should stand for. This year was no different.

They all said they voted Hillary and they're from Iowa, Wisconsin, Michigan and Missouri. They're from the same kinds of communities and backgrounds as Trump voters but they weren't helpless victims completely unable or unwilling to resist the call of demagoguery. Some have lost friendships over their stance, but they felt strongly that this was a moral obligation.

This was not an election fueled by ignorant, misled, and misguided voters. This was an election where Glenn Beck literally endorsed Hillary Clinton. The truth about Trump's campaign was not veiled or hidden, it was plainly visible for all to see. Trump didn't create the banner-men, he just assembled them. If only more people were willing to answer the call to stand against him.
 

jtb

Banned
On the bright side, it's not 2004. It's 2016, we know how to win elections and what success tastes like. We lost perhaps the most important election in a long time though, and there are consequences. Namely the successes of the past. A lot of that will be gone before the Fourth Of July next year.

So what do we do? Sit online and smugly pat ourselves on the back, call people bigots, etc? Yea we can do some of that, I probably will a few times this year and next year. But I'm hoping we mainly look in our communities and figure out what we can do. How can you connect to people in person, not over the phone/online. How can you take your party back. The Clinton era is over, thank fucking god. The "Obama Coalition" has to decide whether it's going to be a coalition, what that means, and what it's willing to do going forward. I'm not going to mince words: a lot of people let the president down. He had our backs for 8 years and now those 8 years don't mean much of anything. It's over. Now we have to rebuild, and he's not going to be on the ballot. So...

A lot of people are going to lose things they took for granted. A lot of people didn't know the stakes. Well now we all do, and it's up to us to figure out what's next. As I said I think it's going to start in our communities and neighborhoods.

counterpoint: it's not 2004, it's 2000.

and with that brutal 2018 senate map, it's going to get worse before it gets better.
 

pigeon

Banned
I've never had a problem talking to Bush/Romney republicans; I have friends and family who are those types of Republicans. I have had heated discussions with them throughout the years about conservative vs. liberal solutions for the problems facing America but never have I felt that they disagreed with me about the core tenants, values, and ideals that America and Americans should stand for. This year was no different.

They all said they voted Hillary and they're from Iowa, Wisconsin, Michigan and Missouri. They're from the same kinds of communities and backgrounds as Trump voters but they weren't helpless victims completely unable or unwilling to resist the call of demagoguery. Some have lost friendships over their stance, but they felt strongly that this was a moral obligation.

This was not an election fueled by ignorant, misled, and misguided voters. This was an election where Glenn Beck literally endorsed Hillary Clinton. The truth about Trump's campaign was not veiled or hidden, it was plainly visible for all to see. Trump didn't create the banner-men, he just assembled them. If only more people were willing to answer the call to stand against him.

This is an excellent post, although in fairness remember that time you told me it was crazy to call Trump a fascist
 
This was not an election fueled by ignorant, misled, and misguided voters. This was an election where Glenn Beck literally endorsed Hillary Clinton. The truth about Trump's campaign was not veiled or hidden, it was plainly visible for all to see. Trump didn't create the banner-men, he just assembled them. If only more people were willing to answer the call to stand against him.

It's pretty striking that anecdotally, a number of W. Bush voters had more integrity and willingness to stop Trump than a lot of self-proclaimed liberals who couldn't bring themselves to vote for Hillary Clinton.
 
There is no proven method of reducing racism in conversations. None. We need way more research in trying to convert people over to non-racism.

I'm not talking about converting racists, Trump clearly has his own base. I'm talking about re-engaging with the grass roots, building coalitions, organizing. Discipline.
 

Onemic

Member
Bernie is right tho.

Learn from your mistakes now, lest you want them to happen again. It seems like people want to sweep it under the rug.
 
I've never had a problem talking to Bush/Romney republicans; I have friends and family who are those types of Republicans. I have had heated discussions with them throughout the years about conservative vs. liberal solutions for the problems facing America but never have I felt that they disagreed with me about the core tenants, values, and ideals that America and Americans should stand for. This year was no different.

They all said they voted Hillary and they're from Iowa, Wisconsin, Michigan and Missouri. They're from the same kinds of communities and backgrounds as Trump voters but they weren't helpless victims completely unable or unwilling to resist the call of demagoguery. Some have lost friendships over their stance, but they felt strongly that this was a moral obligation.

This was not an election fueled by ignorant, misled, and misguided voters. This was an election where Glenn Beck literally endorsed Hillary Clinton. The truth about Trump's campaign was not veiled or hidden, it was plainly visible for all to see. Trump didn't create the banner-men, he just assembled them. If only more people were willing to answer the call to stand against him.
Nah. Just be nicer to them. They're just anxious.
 

sazzy

Member
Anthony Weiner should probably go into a closet and never come out ever.

I don't think that was the problem...

“She is a weak campaigner with a documented history of unsavory dealings,” Kevin wrote in an essay for my new book, “The Year of Voting Dangerously.” “She is declared unlikable by 55 percent of the electorate and untrustworthy by 67 percent. ... When the director of the F.B.I. laid bare her gross negligence for arrogantly setting up her own email system while secretary of state and announced there would be no prosecution, you could hear the heavens thunder for justice. Not since O.J. Simpson had someone so obviously guilty by the facts, walked away. A separate investigation tying Clinton Foundation contributions to speeches made by Bill adds to the pungent aroma of shiftiness and entitlement that routinely hovers above them. Bill only adds to it with his surprise thirty-minute visit to the attorney general on the tarmac at the Phoenix airport, a stunt even a first-year law student knows is verboten. The D.N.C. thought it was lining her up with a weak sparring partner she could destroy, marching into Philadelphia with momentum and money for the general campaign. Whoops.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/09/o...region=span-abc-region&WT.nav=span-abc-region
 

Boke1879

Member
There is no proven method of reducing racism in conversations. None. We need way more research in trying to convert people over to non-racism.

I think he means getting involved at the local level and influencing state elections. If Dems are going to be anything going forward we gotta start winning things at the state and local level.

He's right. A lot of things people took for granted is going to be compromised. Right now I just have that sense of loss and uncertainty about what is going to happen now and on top of that I have to worry about the deplorable voices Donald has emboldened.
 

benjipwns

Banned
Everybody was mentioning 2020 names and stuff but I think everyone forgot a big one, sitting governor of a state that he made sure went for Hillary.

The BAG MAN.

Terry McAuliffe 2020! Get your credit cards ready!
 

PBY

Banned
Bernie is right tho.

Learn from your mistakes now, lest you want them to happen again. It seems like people want to sweep it under the rug.
I honestly wasn't a Bernie fan - but he's really the best thing ideologically the DNC has going for it and he's not even really a Dem.
 

Kusagari

Member
The election confirmed what a lot of us realized all the way back in 2008.

The GOP establishment has been herding together a base strung together with religious extremists and white nationalists by simply offering them some token treats and then focusing on their neocon tax cutting ways.

Trump finally spoke to the GOP base in the way they've desired all this time.
 

pigeon

Banned
Bernie is right tho.

Learn from your mistakes now, lest you want them to happen again. It seems like people want to sweep it under the rug.

I agree that people have decided they made a mistake talking about and supporting the rights of people of color and women and now want to sweep that mistake under the rug. Bernie is helping fetch the broom.
 

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
I honestly wasn't a Bernie fan - but he's really the best thing ideologically the DNC has going for it and he's not even really a Dem.

Except he's not. All the Bernie-style candidates did worse than Clinton did. Even in states where the Dems won these candidates lost. This wasn't an election about economic anxiety.
 

Atlagev

Member
The other thing to keep in mind is that the sad fact is that the main reason Hillary didn't win was because of low turnout.

Despite what Trump may claim, very few people actually voted for him. He got less votes than McCain. He got less votes than Romney. And this is *with* an increased population! Democratic turnout was very low. People didn't listen to Obama. They booed. They didn't vote. And, I mean, you can blame a lot of that on Hillary as a flawed candidate. But in the end, it should show that Trump isn't some unstoppable machine. You just need a charismatic politician to go out there and motivate people to vote. Hopefully the Democrats can field a better candidate next time.

They may have won this time, but we're not out.
 
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