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[daedalius]

So trump wants to remove dependant deduction with Ryan's shit tax plan?

Thanks for talking about this you shit media.

Fuck, fuck this shit

 

[metalslimer]

Laying into white people

I'm glad she's not buying into this let's understand these fucks nonsense.

 

[TyrantII]

You can talk all you want about popular vote, I care about the states that flipped to the GOP. Look at that and tell me it wasn't and ass whopping.

http://m.dailykos.com/stories/1594365

The GOP has been flat on turn out now for three election cycles. Democrats didn't vote. Obama got stabbed in the back as his coalition didn't show up for Hillary.

This is the data.

 

[shinra-bansho]

Please god no. Can't we just let them keep their automatic rifles for now or something? Like, I'll sacrifice going tougher on gun control for the presidency if I have to.

That's going too. It's not either or. It's and.

Maybe I'm just in a terribly defeatist mood.

 

[Already Torn]

Sam Bee is furious

Furious and oddly reassuring.

 

[GoldenEye 007]

I don't necessarily disagree. The Democrats will in all likelihood sweep away their minorities to win back the rustbelt with protectionism and nationalism lite. And try in vain to get rural whites.

I don't think that is necessary. An economic populist message would largely be enough. While social issues may be de-emphasized to some extent, it won't go away completely. Also, I'd think the party would be smart to target certain messages that apply to certain areas. Economics to the rust belt. Economics+social issues in urban areas.

I would think at least. Demographics will continue to change and grow. Can't ignore our base.

 

[GutsOfThor]

I don't necessarily disagree. The Democrats will in all likelihood sweep away their minorities to win back the rustbelt with protectionism and nationalism lite. And try in vain to get rural whites.

This is what terrifies me. The "in" thing now is the white rural voter and while I do believe Democrats should try to reach out to them, they should not do so at the cost of losing minorities.

 

[Trouble]

http://m.dailykos.com/stories/1594365

The GOP has been flat on turn out now for three election cycles. Democrats didn't vote. Obama got stabbed in the back as his coalition didn't show up for Hillary.

This is the data.

By 'his coalition' you mean whites who voted for him in rust belt states, right?

 

[Good Job Bob]

If the congress is going to be unified behind him, Trump is probably going to get a lot of bills passed. After so much gridlock under Obama, people might see that alone as an improvement so long as these bills aren't immediately disastrous. Thoughts?

 

[TyrantII]

By 'his coalition' you mean whites who voted for him in rust belt states, right?

Whites and blacks. There's lower turnouts in the cities as well. The cross tabs are there.

There's no mass exodus from D to R column.

There's just no D PERIOD. They stayed home.

 

[pigeon]

They'll try for sure, they have to, but the candidate must be "Genuine" or It'll be another failure. Shinra I've never said that you are wrong in your opinion cause I don't think you are. I just think for the sake of a greater good the democrats need to win elections, just win elections, local, state, governor, win.


I never said anything about those contests.

Just not the greater good of people of color. Gotta ditch them! Can't win elections otherwise!

 

[Bowdz]

This is what terrifies me. The "in" thing now is the white rural voter and while I do believe Democrats should try to reach out to them, they should not do so at the cost of losing minorities.

Bernie honestly nailed it in hindsight. His message was broad and hit every corner of the Obama coalition. Yes, he didn't do as well with minorities as Clinton did in the primary, but he showed us all how to chart a course that is inclusive to all minorities AND addresses the very real grievances of the rural Americans.

 

[whyamihere]

Whites and blacks. The cross tabs are there.

There's no mass exodus from D to R column. There just no D PERIOD. They stayed home.

yeah, but they just really want someone who will inspire them

 

[thehypocrite]

Please god no. Can't we just let them keep their automatic rifles for now or something? Like, I'll sacrifice going tougher on gun control for the presidency if I have to.

That talking point need to be dropped as well.

I'm glad she's not buying into this let's understand these fucks nonsense.

We need to understand them in order to neutralize their turnout or convinced a portion of them that there's a better option. I would hire a bunch of social researchers to dig into this. We need to evaluate this from all angles.

 

[StormBrute]

Bernie honestly nailed it in hindsight. His message was broad and hit every corner of the Obama coalition. Yes, he didn't do as well with minorities as Clinton did in the primary, but he showed us all how to chart a course that is inclusive to all minorities AND addresses the very real grievances of the rural Americans.

We need both of them together in one package, someone who can deliver it with the fury and fear of God liberals evidently need to do anything.

 

[MetalGearZed]

Just run Colbert or somebody in 2020. Don't necessarily need an experienced politician.

Colbert would be amazing

yall, i ain't playin. Cuban/Colbert 2020
if those two can't beat Trump, we are just fucked for eternity
Musk/Zuckerberg would be amazing too

 

[royalan]

Bernie honestly nailed it in hindsight. His message was broad and hit every corner of the Obama coalition. Yes, he didn't do as well with minorities as Clinton did in the primary, but he showed us all how to chart a course that is inclusive to all minorities AND addresses the very real grievances of the rural Americans.

No, he absolutely did not. Obama did that.

Bernie wanted to treat race issues like it was the 1950s.

I'm REALLY not down with this revisionist history that Bernie wasn't a shitty candidate in his own right, surrounded by EVEN SHITTIER people, who got trounced by both Hillary AND Trump.

 

[TyrantII]

Bernie honestly nailed it in hindsight. His message was broad and hit every corner of the Obama coalition. Yes, he didn't do as well with minorities as Clinton did in the primary, but he showed us all how to chart a course that is inclusive to all minorities AND addresses the very real grievances of the rural Americans.

Maybe. That's the thing though, he only appealed to a little less than half the coalition. Sort of how Clinton likewise did (but the larger half).

If someone did appeal to the entire coalition, they would have wrapped it up very soon.

The story of the dems should be taking away is how do you fire up AA's in the south/cities, whites in the rust belt, and the youth in the college cities and towns.

None of the candidates were able to muster the three pillars this time.

 

[Already Torn]

I want Van Jones. Guy has crazy patience, a law degree, and can make you cry. Plus he's super smooth. And Jones isn't a weird name. And he has a penis.

 

[thehypocrite]

http://m.dailykos.com/stories/1594365

The GOP has been flat on turn out now for three election cycles. Democrats didn't vote. Obama got stabbed in the back as his coalition didn't show up for Hillary.

This is the data.

No, Hillary failed to get them to move. Do you think this Obama coalition was gifted to him? He built it through smart politics.

Just not the greater good of people of color. Gotta ditch them! Can't win elections otherwise!

That's not my point. I'm an immigrant as well. I'm a POC, If no elections are won how can progressive policies for POC get implemented? You need to frame your message taking that into account. There's a spectrum and I guess modulation is needed to avoid the whitelash

 

[Officerrob]

The "Bernie was the savior" hindsight going around is getting ridiculous. Sure, "he had the message" if you want to ignore the FACT that democratic minority voters disagreed. The argument is basically Bernie had the argument for rust belt whites and minorities should have gotten in line, that's fucking ridiculous

 

[whyamihere]

#SherrodBrown2020

#BrowningOut

 

[balladofwindfishes]

Bernie would have still lost. He'd have the same issues turning out minorities

 

[Holmes]

#SherrodBrown2020

#BrowningOut

ME TOO

 

[SenorArdilla]

Realistically, what happens if Trump manages to jail Hillary?

 

[Debirudog]

I think a part of Bernie is someone the dems could look into and why people liked him but I disagreed with him strongly on his messaging that classism is the root of minorities' problems.

 

[benjipwns]

I want Van Jones. Guy has crazy patience, a law degree, and can make you cry. Plus he's super smooth.

And has already resigned once from a political position because of his past political views and activism!

yall, i ain't playin. Cuban/Colbert 2020
if those two can't beat Trump, we are just fucked for eternity
Musk/Zuckerberg would be amazing too

You realize that Cuban's political idol is Ayn Rand right?

 

[excelsiorlef]

Bernie would have still lost. He'd have the same issues turning out minorities

Worse issues.

 

[royalan]

The "Bernie was the savior" hindsight going around is getting ridiculous. Sure, "he had the message" if you want to ignore the FACT that democratic minority voters disagreed. The argument is basically Bernie had the argument for rust belt whites and minorities should have gotten in line, that's fucking ridiculous

Right.

All these OT threads are so full of the soft racism "oh don't worry them mindless coloreds will just get on board! Choo choo feel the Bern *airhorn* WHAT DO THEY HAVE TO LOSE!?" shit that turned a lot of black folk off to Bernie in the first place.

 

[Chichikov]

welp





https://t.co/yTsUEn4oO7

SPD said they do not believe it's related to the protest.

https://twitter.com/SeattlePD/status/796558162606391296

That's a good thing, I guess.

 

[Cesare Borgia]

The things I'd watch for early 2020 posturing: Silicone Valley+Seattle vs New England. That's where the major donors are, and each side will have their man or woman. With the DNC playing catch up, although maybe if Obama gets involved we can have more confidence in them.

SV/Seattle? Booker. NE? Warren obviously. Wild card could be Newsom. I'm not enthused about any of them, but that's where the money will start talking. Those are the people who receive late night calls from donors complaining about the recent loss and saying "you know who could do this? You."

 

[Mike M]

I have to wonder if anti-Trump protests might coalesce into something analogous to OWS or BLM and persist long term.

 

[Ziltoidia 9]

Bernie honestly nailed it in hindsight. His message was broad and hit every corner of the Obama coalition. Yes, he didn't do as well with minorities as Clinton did in the primary, but he showed us all how to chart a course that is inclusive to all minorities AND addresses the very real grievances of the rural Americans.

Bernie got labeled as a single issue candidate by the DNC establishment in their followers. But I for one watch many of his stump speeches, and at everyone, he hit on many different issues that are extremely relevant to the social justice movement.

Primaries are won by the establishment because they are controlled by the establishment, and the fact that he got 47% of the vote is great considering that. I also feel that there are many more Bernie people than we know, they just couldn't vote in the closed or semi closed primaries. Not everyone knows the system and knows they have to be registered as a certain party, or that they have to do it before a certain date.

He also didn't do as well in the south because the south is more conservative.

 

[TyrantII]

The "Bernie was the savior" hindsight going around is getting ridiculous. Sure, "he had the message" if you want to ignore the FACT that democratic minority voters disagreed.

You can't take the coalition for granted as he found out. Further, you saw just how much Hillary never did at the convention alone.

Bernie probably would have saved the Firewall, but he might have put other states like NV, VA, and NM out of play if his AA/Latino support lagged as it did in the primary.

Looking at the data, there's no silver bullet in what should have been done, besides finding a candidate that could appeal to everyone.

The numbers of Democrats just sitting out this one with these consequences, is frightening.

 

[Frank the Great]

Dems won't abandon minorities. Hillary won the popular vote and barely lost as the most disliked candidate in history. No need to go back to the drawing board, just get a better candidate next time. They need a candidate who can generate enthusiasm and doesn't scare the shit out of uneducated white idiots, and they will be fine.

I have to say, I really regret being so down on Bernie. I was so wrong about him. He could have beat Trump at his own game with white folks, and Obama/Clinton could have gotten minorities behind him. Alas.

 

[Makai]

I have to wonder if anti-Trump protests might coalesce into something analogous to OWS or BLM and persist long term.

I was thinking Moral Mondays

 

[neurosisxeno]

Bernie would have still lost. He'd have the same issues turning out minorities

It would have been worse for Bernie actually. He would have had even lower minority turn out, and would have only leveled the playing field by stealing away some of the millenials that Trump managed to get.

This was probably the absolute best case scenario for Sanders; http://www.270towin.com/maps/4AXX2

Compare that to what most people saw--according to polls--as the best case scenario for Clinton; http://www.270towin.com/maps/7A00y

Realistically, we probably would have seen this out of Sanders given turnout; http://www.270towin.com/maps/vVOOk

He wins the rust belt, but loses everything south of Virginia, and even with that he might have lost Wisconsin or PA anyway with such a suppressed minority vote.

 

[daedalius]

Realistically, what happens if Trump manages to jail Hillary?

It will never come up again

Also, on trumps site any mention of Muslim deportation is gone.

 

[excelsiorlef]

I have to wonder if anti-Trump protests might coalesce into something analogous to OWS or BLM and persist long term.

Hopefully BLM and not OWS

OWS has in fact paved the way for Trump on some levels IMO.

 

[MetalGearZed]

You realize that Cuban's political idol is Ayn Rand right?

yikes, no i did not.
my second ticket still stands though

 

[benjipwns]

I have to wonder if anti-Trump protests might coalesce into something analogous to OWS or BLM and persist long term.

I sense a problem with one of your examples.

 

[johnsmith]

Sigh. The dream of Colbert running will keep me sane for the next few days.

 

[thehypocrite]

You can't take the coalition for granted as he found out. Further, you saw just how much Hillary never did at the convention alone.

Bernie probably would have saved the Firewall, but he might have put other states like NV, VA, and NM out of play if his AA/Latino support lagged as it did in the primary.

Looking at the data, there's no silver bullet in what should have been done, besides finding a candidate that could appeal to everyone.

The numbers of Democrats just sitting out this one with these consequences, is frightening.

There was. It was the rust belt that Hillary neglected. How many times did she went to these states after the primary? Plus she was a bad candidates for this states as well.

 

[Four_Chamber]

Bernie didn't nail 'it'- he was straight up toxic in minority areas. Democrats won't win elections without strong minority turnout. That being said, economic populism is going to be the way to go. Democrats have 4 years to figure it out.

 

[benjipwns]

There was. It was the rust belt that Hillary neglected. How many times did she went to these states after the primary?

They were on lock, this was the year of turning Utah and Texas blue.

 

[GoldenEye 007]

Hopefully BLM and not OWS

OWS has in fact paved the way for Trump on some levels IMO.

Well to be fair, Wall St did fuck everyone then got away with it, pissing off many people. So if Trump was able to capture that sentiment, he did good for himself. And the DNC not recognizing that is part of the reason why we are where we are today.

Targeted populist and/or social messages where relevant with a charismatic overall candidate probably would have gone very differently for the DNC.

 

[Sanjuro]

Sigh. The dream of Colbert running will keep me sane for the next few days.

The sad thing? I'm debating between Conan and Noah the evening after an election. It's fine to like both, but that just shows how irrelevant politically Noah is.

 

[Lord Frieza]

You can't take the coalition for granted as he found out. Further, you saw just how much Hillary never did at the convention alone.

Bernie probably would have saved the Firewall, but he might have put other states like NV, VA, and NM out of play if his AA/Latino support lagged as it did in the primary.

Looking at the data, there's no silver bullet in what should have been done, besides finding a candidate that could appeal to everyone.

The numbers of Democrats just sitting out this one with these consequences, is frightening.

Yeah, that's the thing that I can't wrap my head around more than anything. Not being energized by Clinton, okay fine, but how can you not be energized about someone who literally against almost everything (I would think) most Democrats stand for in Trump? That's something I will just go to my grave never understanding

 

[royalan]

Bernie got labeled as a single issue candidate by the DNC establishment in their followers. But I for one watch many of his stump speeches, and at everyone, he hit on many different issues that are extremely relevant to the social justice movement.

Primaries are won by the establishment because they are controlled by the establishment, and the fact that he got 47% of the vote is great considering that. I also feel that there are many more Bernie people than we know, they just couldn't vote in the closed or semi closed primaries. Not everyone knows the system and knows they have to be registered as a certain party, or that they have to do it before a certain date.

He also didn't do as well in the south because the south is more conservative.

People keep trying it with this excuse.

The South is NOT more conservative than the midwest states that Bernie won.

Minorities as a block weren't feeling the bern.

 

[CoffeeJanitor]

If the congress is going to be unified behind him, Trump is probably going to get a lot of bills passed. After so much gridlock under Obama, people might see that alone as an improvement so long as these bills aren't immediately disastrous. Thoughts?

I mean, yeah. We'll see if the country likes the policies.