I'm kinda afraid that the republicans are going to abuse the power they will have soon. One good thing is that they still have yet to deal with their demographic issues and if trump turns out to be a disasterous president they may be out of power for awhile.
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PoliGAF 2016 |OT15| Orange is the New Black
- Thread starter Y2Kev
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I'm kinda afraid that the republicans are going to abuse the power they will have soon. One good thing is that they still have yet to deal with their demographic issues and if trump turns out to be a disasterous president they may be out of power for awhile.
benjipwns
Banned
Oh, no, they would never do this. Politics in America just doesn't work that way.
There already are "demographic issues". The problem is turnout was down among D's and then drowned out by the rural vote, even if slightly, it was.
I think this is more of a question of can Democrats unify and vote reliably again and not cast protest votes or sit out elections because of stupid reasons.
My fear is that the rust belt is now going the way of West Virginia. I hope I'm wrong and that these states can still flip back to the D column in 4 years.
Dominican Power
Member
benjipwns
Banned
Were all the stories like this over the last eight years fake or what?
Ohio and Iowa look to be the only states that look to be the next WV in the future. He barely won PA, WI and MI. I'm not sure if he can consolidate his support in those states in the future to make them even more red.
aspiegamer
Member
Flint was literally poisoned by a state GOP administration that trashed institutions via fiat and they still didn't think it was worth the time to vote? This makes me sad. That alone would have been enough votes to flip.
MI PA WI will be fine if Democrats bother to make sure everyone is compliant with voter ID laws on top of just trying to get them to say they'll go vote. OH was such a massive turnaround I don't know what to think of it yet.
Yeah. I don't see how they turnaround an approximately 10% loss in the future in OH and IA.
benjipwns
Banned
Want me to make it worse?
2016 - 52.4%
2012 - 63.6%
2008 - 65.3%
2004 - 60.0%
2000 - 62.8%
1996 - 60.9% (10.2% Perot)
1992 - 52.6% (23.1% Perot)
1988 - 59.3%
Hillary did worse than every Democratic Presidential candidate in Flint's county including her husband in a three-way race back to 1984. (Reagan won 51-49.)
Here's the gubernatorial shares:
2014 - 60.5%
2010 - 51.3%
2006 - 65.8%
2002 - 60.1%
She did worse than every statewide D candidate except freakin Virg Bernero who got slaughtered by Snyder in 2010 in every LP county except that one and Wayne (Detroit) and Washtenaw (Ann Arbor).
I still cannot believe he won PA though. Pittsburgh along with Eastern PA have tons of votes and the fact they were basically canceled out by all the red counties here is concerning if this continues to be a trend.
I don't get OH either but I think it's gone. Which is crazy. MI is probably winnable again. Not sure about Wisconsin though -- if you compare the county by county map from 2008 to 2012 and then 2016 it's crazy how many counties have slipped away from Democrats. Worried that this may be more of a permanent thing.
That's what I don't understand. How did enough people not realize how big of a deal it was that Trump had to be stopped? Like 6.5m people just don't show up because Obama isn't on the ticket anymore? What a mess.
benjipwns
Banned
Since you all wanted it, MAOIST REBEL NEWS takes in the election and informs us without false consciousness.
Immediate reaction:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qCLc01WQ8EQ
Extended analysis: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8JJTwkQ6mM4
Immediate reaction:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qCLc01WQ8EQ
Extended analysis: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8JJTwkQ6mM4
I do wonder how badly Trump is going to abuse these things. Particularly mass spying and going after journalists. We are doomed.Wikileaks is having a schadenfreude moment
aspiegamer
Member
Wait, so... they goal all along was trying to get Trump elected just so we could see a complete idiot abuse all the Patriot Act shit and intelligence services? Yeah, sounds like a decent motive for Russia.Wikileaks is having a schadenfreude moment
Edit: Given how contrary those things could be toward actual defense of the First Amendment, online support for the leaks during the campaign is mind-blowingly ironic. Well played, accused rapist.
Not enough people voted in the urban areas. That is why he barely won PA.
benjipwns
Banned
Wikileaks goal is upsetting the order, and if that chaos hurts Hillary Clinton that's gravy.
elvisaintdead
Member
Trump is clearly bad for the USA, so good for Russia in their eyes. In every way, not just in the ways they're pointing out now. His policies pretty much universally weaken America's position on the world stage. America is no longer a country that fulfills it's obligations. America is a country that will fuck itself over on trade. This is all what Putin wants.
Well, like Trump's message to Clinton asking her why these things were still broken despite all these years to fix them, Flint's water is still bad right? The pipes are still fucked, right? Flint got their airtime, they got their lip service and then what?
So yeah, a Republican administration did it to them but a Democratic federal government knows about it and isn't exactly speeding to the rescue. So all politicians get the blame there. If the Federal government deployed the Army Corps of Engineers and shit and switched the water back and started replacing pipes the day after they found out maybe more in Flint would feel differently but instead they got bottled water and assurances that this will be taken care of. Someday.
Now, that's not how law works in this country, I get it, but there it is. There's the frustration. Think about it, if you had a populist strongman in the office who forced his way in to fix that mess, how much do you think people'd be fighting that? Do you think Flint would be up in arms with State's Rights and shit if the government just shat on Flint and Michigan's jurisdiction and fixed that mistake? Honestly, probably not.
And again, I get that those jurisdictions and laws and the process that must be followed protects people from strongmen aiming to do bad things as well. But really all people see when they're knee deep in lead poisoning is one side that did it and another that's just as happy to casually let it continue until they can conveniently get it taken care of on their terms.
Laughing Banana
Weeping Pickle
I see this in other threads but, why is it there seem to be a consensus everywhere that should those people actually vote between one of the two, then the vote would surely go to Clinton and not Trump?
The same with 3rd party voters. Many seemingly blame them for the loss that Hillary has suffered but, if they actually voted between one of the two main people or if there's no 3rd party choices at all, what makes you guys so sure that they would actually go to Hillary and not Trump?
On the plus-side, I can see Germany, Japan and Canada strengthening to counter the weak US. Japan's already pushing for a standing army (removed by the US after WW2). Germany is the centre of Europe, and will push the EU as a larger trading block and maybe increase NATO payments and units to cover the US drop, and Canada can maybe step into the US's shoes as policeman/sentry.
benjipwns
Banned
Well, see, it'll be explained to them that it's the more rational decision and...
I would like to think that my GOTV idea could also educate people about governing and government, as a side-line. The ignorance (whether through laziness, lack of education, or just people too busy to read-up) is astounding. And that's obvious from the way that Trump was able to get the WWC vote, whilst being obviously unable to do anything for the WWC. We know he talked shit, but people needed to be walked through it, and no-one is/was willing to do that.
Am I hoping for too much? Maybe. But I'll tell you something - my interest in gaming has died recently, and I've been thinking about how I don't do much to contribute to society. So I've got the motivation.
Because a vote for Trump is seen as being based in
1) Racism (Hispanics/Wall)
2) Sexism (both verbal and physical assault)
3) Selfishness (I'm a white male/female - I got mine, fuck you)
4) Ignorance (He'll get jobs back bigly, even though he buys cheap Chinese steel and doesn't pay his contractors)
Third-party voters couldn't swallow voting for Trump, but didn't want to vote for Hillary (for whatever reason). So, they went for either an anti-vaxxer or dumb-ass who stuck his tongue out on TV. Oh, except for the 11,000 people who wrote in Harambe (assuming that story is true). Fucking ignorant dipshits.
(Side-note, I reckon I've sworn more over the past 2 days than I had over the previous month. Also, long-time-poster/first-time-writer of the word "dipshit")
elvisaintdead
Member
Probably polling and historical data. Typical democrat voters didn't vote for Clinton in this election. For Michigan, a lot of those may have just left the top of the ticket blank. Certainly you can come up with other theories, you could say they all just stayed home and the blank spot on the tickets is explained by some other phenomenon. I don't see why Dem voters not casting a vote for president wouldn't be the prevailing theory considering what we know about Michigan historically.
aspiegamer
Member
Regardless of which they might have been forced to vote for, it's the responsibility of every voter to consider the consequences of their vote (or omitted vote). Both candidates were extremely known quantities with known agendas. Ignorance is not an excuse. They're fools regardless of their third-party selection. A meaningless act that shows a complete lack of empathy. Nothing personal to any GAFfers making such votes; It's just my opinion.
benjipwns
Banned
The consequences of an individual vote are nil.
You're really demanding that voters substitute their own personal decision making process for yours.
I think this is something that every society has, and no society has really addressed properly.
An individual vote really does have no consequence. It's only when added to someone else's individual vote, and then someone else's again, that it has power. But we all need to push the idea that no vote is worthless - it all means something, to someone. People who don't push that idea need to realise that a large part of society (as made-up of individuals) lack empathy. That lack of empathy is what's driving the right-wing forces forward across the Western world. It's ironic that a country that is worried about Sharia Law being pushed by Muslims is 1) not bothered about it abroad and 2) fine with aspects of US society becoming almost-Sharia like in its restrictions for certain groups. Why? Because lack of empathy.
Twitter abuse, fat-shaming (which is fine now, because Trump is in) and GG are a direct example of society willfully not caring about other people. We can start by saying that, even if I don't care about my vote, other people do.
(Edited the first paragraph for clarity)
cartoon_soldier
Member
I hope Republicans eliminate minimum wage.
Haha... Yes! Awful in the short-term, but so much progress in the long-term.
Hillary Clinton wins the popular vote.
This country is going to be very divided now. If Trump had won the popular vote, more people could probably accept the outcome, but now people are just going to be pissed that he's the POTUS.
We really need to abolish the Electoral College. The founders put it in place to appease slave holding states. I think its far past time we remove it and just go with the popular vote.
This country is going to be very divided now. If Trump had won the popular vote, more people could probably accept the outcome, but now people are just going to be pissed that he's the POTUS.
We really need to abolish the Electoral College. The founders put it in place to appease slave holding states. I think its far past time we remove it and just go with the popular vote.
benjipwns
Banned
Where does this keep coming from?
The original idea was that Congress elected the President but they wanted to make him more independent and create only a temporary body for electing him: http://avalon.law.yale.edu/18th_century/debates_602.asp
Might've been posted already? Not sure.
2016 November General Election : Turnout Rates (Google Docs)
Has numbers for "Total Ineligible Felons".
2016 November General Election : Turnout Rates (Google Docs)
Has numbers for "Total Ineligible Felons".
RustyNails
Member
How dumb does Hillary campaign look by trying to make a play for Arizona while her own blue strongholds were crumbling. All that money, people, number crunching for absolutely fucking nothing. Your data analytics team needs to be shot into the sun.
Do we know how they failed so badly, yet?
And wasn't it the same team as Obama's? That would suggest it wasn't the team itself wholly to blame, but something else..
Winning the popular vote in the presence of the Electoral College does not mean anything.
For example, Trump supporters in California and Clinton supporters in Texas may have stayed home because their votes simply don't matter to the EC.
Because we have no idea how many of those voters exist, nor how many would actually come out if the presidential election was a popular vote, it is impossible to play what if and predict who would win based on the actual popular vote share in this election.
The very presence of the EC invalidates the popular vote stats.
Every democrat wanted to look last the fact that she wasn't a good campaigner, wasn't well liked, and had 30 years of political baggage and controversies with time bombs such as her idiot husband and a personal aid who was married to a pedofile (who was going on talk shows) because of the singular fact that she was a woman.
Some of it was conservative propaganda and some of it was election interference from international groups but democrats need need to be more focused on winning than optics.
Half the agument for Hillary that was being publicized was it's time for a female president yet she lost women.
Obama didn't win his presidency by saying we have had 43 white presidents it's time for a black one, he had a clear message of change and optimism.
I wasn't the greatest Bernie can but that primary should have been a good test run for each candidate yet while the republicans had 1543 debates and tv time to get their message dems in the DNC were trying to protect Hillary and keep them off tv.
Bernie tapped into the political movement that was gonna win the election for Trump in the midwest.
This is not supposed to happen here though. I am just hoping this is a fluke and PA can still be a reliable blue state in the future.
Ugh, just hit me that a 7-2 conservative SCOTUS is a real possibility before the end of Trump's Presidency. How can progressive politics survive that? Even if we have a wave in a few years, that's not the kind of court that upholds a public option.
I think everything from Roe to healthcare is doomed for at least a generation. Terrifying.
Been a long day for me.
I've come to the conclusion that I have a lot to own about what happened here.
When I woke up yesterday after the election, initially, I felt like I had woken up in a completely different world than the one I woke up in the day before on election day.
But that's the lie. It was the exact same world election day, just as it was the day before that. The difference was what I believed about it. What I was told to believe about it, especially.
That happened because I failed a responsibility to myself. I don't plan to feel like this ever again.
I've come to the conclusion that I have a lot to own about what happened here.
When I woke up yesterday after the election, initially, I felt like I had woken up in a completely different world than the one I woke up in the day before on election day.
But that's the lie. It was the exact same world election day, just as it was the day before that. The difference was what I believed about it. What I was told to believe about it, especially.
That happened because I failed a responsibility to myself. I don't plan to feel like this ever again.
neurosisxeno
Member
I'm going to call it now, for 2020 we need a Franken/(Michelle) Obama ticket. On top of that we need to purge the DNC and get rid of anyone with ties to the 2016 Clinton campaign. People don't trust the DNC, and they don't trust anyone tied to Hillary Clinton. The Democrats have the right ideas, but it always comes back to the fact that we always find ourselves in an elitist mindset of "no, we know the candidate that is best for the job". The DNC may not have literally forced Sanders out (and I don't even think he would have won the general) but between all the leaks and the controversies it damaged their image so badly that this election for a not insubstantial number of people became not only a referendum on the importance of white blue collar workers, but also on the problems of image. There's a real problem when we can elect a white man who is mired by as many gaffes as Trump had over a qualified woman with a deeply flawed image.
EDIT: I'm just getting to the acceptance part of the grieving process I believe.
EDIT: I'm just getting to the acceptance part of the grieving process I believe.
BotoxAgent
Member
Yeah, terrifying.
But at this point. My main concern is the environment, global warming, and animal welfare--they don't deserve to pay for our mistakes. I hope the rest of the world steps up and picks up our slack
Some of which still has to go through the Court process, and there's nothing threatening Roe (for example) for a bit. The last SCOTUS judgement on abortion (restrictions on centres that required doctors to have admitting privileges, and building sizes) has been definitively knocked down, which means States have to find a new avenue. And then it's appealed, and then SCOTUS. Realistically, Roe is safe for at least 2 years. Hence, it's all about the mid-terms, or cross-aisle compromise.
I'm not even sure how many Republican Senators are coming-up for re-election, but I'm more and more convinced that Trump's abject failure to help the WWC, as well as giving positions of power to friends and family will fuck the GOP over in 2018. We need to shove his lies down their throats, and get them to vote.
Edit: Relevant
Trump Rides a Wave of Fury That May Damage Global Prosperity
sazzy
Member
My opinion that Hillary's campaign screwed up royally is only strengthened:
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/10/u...prod=nytcore-iphone&smid=nytcore-iphone-share
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/10/u...prod=nytcore-iphone&smid=nytcore-iphone-share
cartoon_soldier
Member
I hope Republicans/Trump pass their entire economic and social agenda. So people can see what that will be like.
Ban Abortion.
PP gone.
Remove LGBT/Transgender protections.
Voucher Medicare
Block Grant Medicaid & Food Stamps
Repeal ACA
Ban Reporters/Media as needed
Make Internet a non-utility
Withdraw all trade agreements
Impose import duties
Register Muslims
Deport 20 million
Build the wall
Ban Abortion.
PP gone.
Remove LGBT/Transgender protections.
Voucher Medicare
Block Grant Medicaid & Food Stamps
Repeal ACA
Ban Reporters/Media as needed
Make Internet a non-utility
Withdraw all trade agreements
Impose import duties
Register Muslims
Deport 20 million
Build the wall
neurosisxeno
Member
None of the people in prominent positions within her campaign should be taken in by future Democrats. They could not have screwed this up any more. Focusing all their resources on PA/OH/FL/NC/GA/IA was such a greedy strategy.
cartoon_soldier
Member
It's easy to see all this after the campaign ended and she lost. Oh she would have done more to appeal to white people, like what, tell them All Lives Matter maybe.
What happened is everybody including all pollsters underestimated rural white turnout.
benjipwns
Banned
sazzy
Member
I'm not white, but I'm pretty sure white people could have been courted with something more substantial than Hillary telling them "All Lives Matter".
That list of slogans btw:
They paid $3 million for this.
...good god.
"No Quit"? Really? That's the fucking slogan of a caveman. "Vote Krogg, No Quit"
shinra-bansho
Member
8.
And 23 Democrats and 2 Independents including St Bernard. Several in red or swing states.
Also I'm not even sure what you mean by be non partisan but turnout people and tell them not to vote Republican.
I don't even know how to think about the timeline here. This loss fucks up everything.
I just hope that a. Trump is a one term President and b. Breyer and Ginsburg stay on the court through his term.
If we get justices like William Pryor, Don Willett or even Mike Lee on the SCOTUS we are so fucked.
Like, I don't think anything will survive. Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, ACA (or whatever is left of it), women's reproductive rights, on and on. This country will turn into a theocracy. This may already start to happen with Trump having all three branches at his disposal.
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