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[newshinycd]

All he had to do was A) Convince dems who didn't like Hillary (of which there were many) to vote for him and/or B) Convince the white rural voter that he understood their issues, which he does a good job of.

Look at the narrow vote deficits in Michigan, Wisconsin, and PA. He would have easily flipped PA, and MI and Wisconsin were close enough to where he would have had the union voters on his side. He'd be president.

I agree. Biden would have won. I think a lot of people here are overestimating how much support Trump had. Trump didn't even break above the amount of votes that Romney received. Hell, he didn't even close to the amount of votes that McCain had in 2008.

This wasn't a wave election. White working class had enough pissed off people who turned out to vote. Democrats couldn't be bothered, and those that did most likely went third party.

 

[Poodlestrike]

This is the shame shit we always go through in off years, just in a main year. Dems didn't have their perfect prince (or princess, in this case), so they didn't bother to show up. It's not even about policy. We do not need to abandon minorities or women to pull this off. We just need to find someone sufficiently charismatic for the base to rally around. They don't have to be particularly qualified, just be able to speak on the issues with >Trump levels of coherency and intelligence, plus being someone young people can feel good about themselves for supporting.

For now, we need to deal with that, but long term, we need to really address it.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

This wasn't a wave election.

This point needs to be hammered again and again. This was not a GOP wave election. This was an entirely winnable election that was lost due to the Democrats failing.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

MI, WI and PA are not gone forever. We can get those back. She barely lost in an election where Dem turnout was historically low. Someone gets a smidge more blacks to turnout and those states are won. Ohio and Iowa might be gone. Too white and they even if we won, those states were trending red.

You can increase the black vote turnout by 10% in all three of those states and it doesn't flip any of them.

Arizona, Georgia and NC are potential pick ups. Demographics will continue to shift there. And with higher Dem turnout, those three are all viable pick ups. Hillary did very well in those states, considering how she did in the rest of the country. Florida continues to become more blue. Relative to where Florida usually is compared to the country, it was bluer this year.

This is madness. A party that explicitly advertises and strategizes around being a minority party in America is never taking the Presidency back. The votes aren't there. They're just not. Seriously, do the maths. Increase Latino turnout by 10% Arizona. Not a Democratic win. Increase the black turnout by 10% in Georgia. Not a Democratic win. North Carolina is the exception, but the turnout was down there because Republicans managed to overturn the Voting Rights Act, and they did that because they took hold of state political positions and so on, and those are mostly voted for by people who aren't minorities.

Minorities make ~30% of the electorate. White people whose sympathy for minorities is more powerful than any other voting motivator is ~15% of the electorate. That leaves you ~5% short. You need something else.

 

[Poodlestrike]

This point needs to be hammered again and again. This was not a GOP wave election. This was an entirely winnable election that was lost due to the Democrats failing.

And not just the party, either. Yes, the Clinton campaign would have been much better off focusing on the Rust Belt states rather than trying to snag AZ, NC, etc. But we as the Democratic voters also fucked this one up. The base needs to do some real soul searching on WHY they vote.

Hopefully Obama can get them to do that. I have trouble reconciling his behavior as President with his past as a community organizer, but maybe now that he's out of office he'll buckle down and get people moving.

 

[IggyChooChoo]

This point needs to be hammered again and again. This was not a GOP wave election. This was an entirely winnable election that was lost due to the Democrats failing.

I just worry about how much better the GOP can do to retain the rust belt in 2020 with better campaign infrastructure, and more effective vote suppression backed up by the Supreme Court.

 

[Barzul]

I agree. Biden would have won. I think a lot of people here are overestimating how much support Trump had. Trump didn't even break above the amount of votes that Romney received. Hell, he didn't even close to the amount of votes that McCain had in 2008.

This wasn't a wave election. White working class had enough pissed off people who turned out to vote. Democrats couldn't be bothered, and those that did most likely went third party.

Exactly people talking about Trumpism like it was this genius movement. It wasn't. Hillary was not a great candidate. I went to one of her rallies and it was fun and I was looking forward to seeing the first female president. Was it exciting? No. Did her speech bleed charisma like Obama or heck even Trump? Nah. Trump might've talked with the vocabulary of an 8th grader but his words resonated and his catchphrases stuck and sometimes that can be just what you need. You don't even need to recreate Obama, you just need someone that can give off a more relatable persona. It wasn't her, I mean look at Michele's speech at NH. That went deep into your bones, you felt the passion as she spoke. Hillary never had that. I blame the campaign and her for being overconfident, not visiting Wisconsin even once. Heck Trump held a rally in Connecticut. He was everywhere he thought there was even an inkling of a chance.

Democrats we need a better candidate in 2020. Someone like Bush in Democrat form, it sucks that we've completely abandoned Southern states. I think the gun issue did it and as a staunch anti gun person (it's my biggest voting incentive 2nd to immigration), I'm willing to drop it completely. Pick my battles. Too many minorities, disadvantaged people and even the WWC are going to get fucked over by not necessarily Trump but by Paul Ryan's policies if he has his way.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

You can increase the black vote turnout by 10% in all three of those states and it doesn't flip any of them.

This is madness. A party that explicitly advertises and strategizes around being a minority party in America is never taking the Presidency back. The votes aren't there. They're just not. Seriously, do the maths. Increase Latino turnout by 10% Arizona. Not a Democratic win. Increase the black turnout by 10% in Georgia. Not a Democratic win. North Carolina is the exception, but the turnout was down there because Republicans managed to overturn the Voting Rights Act, and they did that because they took hold of state political positions and so on, and those are mostly voted for by people who aren't minorities.

Minorities make ~30% of the electorate. White people whose sympathy for minorities is more powerful than any other voting motivator is ~15% of the electorate. That leaves you ~5% short. You need something else.

Get the rest of the white people who are Democrats who didn't vote because "both are the same, mehhhh" + the minorities and you win.

This was one of the worst Dem turnouts in a generation. But no, let's panic and make knee jerk reactions that we need to give up our morals (that won us the presidency in the past) ignore minorities and just full on white working class. It's a gross overreaction to an election where we have a campaign that clearly failed, polls that clearly failed, and turnout that was historically low. It's a cop out to try and pretend putting our most reliable demographics on the back burner is a good idea. That's madness.

A week ago, we thought the GOP couldn't win the presidency for decades. And now suddenly the Democrats can't win the presidency forever without forgetting minorities (after having a minority president be the most popular leaving president in the history of popularity polls)

We ran a weak candidate with serious issues (serious, campaign destroying issues!). We ignored those issues. She ran a bad campaign. We got lost in data and polls and couldn't see what was going on. We got too confident that Trump would turn off voters and this was a slam dunk. We made the same mistakes we made fun of the GOP primary goobers for. And we lost.

 

[Valdfellgar]

Get the rest of the white people who are Democrats who didn't vote because "both are the same, mehhhh" + the minorities and you win.

This was one of the worst Dem turnouts in a generation. But no, let's panic and make knee jerk reactions that we need to give up our morals (that won us the presidency in the past) ignore minorities and just full on white working class. It's a gross overreaction to an election where we have a campaign that clearly failed, polls that clearly failed, and turnout that was historically low. It's a cop out to try and pretend putting our most reliable demographics on the back burner is a good idea. That's madness.

A week ago, we thought the GOP couldn't win the presidency for decades. And now suddenly the Democrats can't win the presidency forever without forgetting minorities (after having a minority president be the most popular leaving president in the history of popularity polls)

We ran a weak candidate with serious issues (serious, campaign destroying issues!). We ignored those issues. She ran a bad campaign. We got lost in data and polls and couldn't see what was going on. We got too confident that Trump would turn off voters and this was a slam dunk. We made the same mistakes we made fun of the GOP primary goobers for. And we lost.

Just wanted to say I generally agree with all this. Change needs to be made, but it shouldn't be sweeping, knee-jerk reactionary.

 

[Tendo]

Anyone have a link to a breakdown for the pa state and federal races? The more data the better. A group I work with are motivated to do everything we can in 2018 and 2020

I want to get involved at the local and state level in pa. I have a fire under my ass and want to get involved. I have no idea who to contact or where to start. Dauphin county.

 

[Diablos]

They should have focused on the rust belt, Florida and Nevada but ignored NC and AZ. Complete waste of time.

 

[Poodlestrike]

Get the rest of the white people who are Democrats who didn't vote because "both are the same, mehhhh" + the minorities and you win.

This was one of the worst Dem turnouts in a generation. But no, let's panic and make knee jerk reactions that we need to give up our morals (that won us the presidency in the past) ignore minorities and just full on white working class. It's a gross overreaction to an election where we have a campaign that clearly failed, polls that clearly failed, and turnout that was historically low. It's a cop out to try and pretend putting our most reliable demographics on the back burner is a good idea. That's madness.

A week ago, we thought the GOP couldn't win the presidency for decades. And now suddenly the Democrats can't win the presidency forever without forgetting minorities (after having a minority president be the most popular leaving president in the history of popularity polls)

We ran a weak candidate with serious issues (serious, campaign destroying issues!). We ignored those issues. She ran a bad campaign. We got lost in data and polls and couldn't see what was going on. We got too confident that Trump would turn off voters and this was a slam dunk. We made the same mistakes we made fun of the GOP primary goobers for. And we lost.

With all due respect to Crab & Co, I think you're being overly generous when you call it a cop-out. These guys were begging us to abandon "identity politics" (read: minorities) all the way back in the primary. They're simply uninterested in addressing intersectional problems as intersectional problems, and see this moment as their opportunity to break from that way of thinking.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

Just wanted to say I generally agree with all this. Change needs to be made, but it shouldn't be sweeping, knee-jerk reactionary.

I'm outright disgusted that the first reaction the Democrats have to losing is to throw minorities under the bus

That's not my party. That's not who I thought we were. I guess we're not really all that different from Republicans after all.

With all due respect to Crab & Co, I think you're being overly generous when you call it a cop-out. These guys were begging us to abandon "identity politics" (read: minorities) all the way back in the primary. They're simply uninterested in addressing intersectional problems.

I look at our campaign and see us saying "boy, sure is good Trump's running, otherwise this would end our campaign"

"oh, this was a mistake, why did she do this. Oh well, it's Trump, she'll win"

"yikes, she handled this poorly. Good thing Trump!"

"Oh man, we're taking Texas and Georgia! Put some money there, we can do this!"

"Trump has never done better than a tie in polls, we're invincible!!"

This happened again and again and again and again and again. Every other week we were talking about the campaign's mistakes with an * that said "but it's Trump, who cares"

And yet, Trump didn't matter. He didn't even beat Romney in votes and lost the popular vote. The big change from 2012 here was the huge Democrat loss in turnout and the large amount of Democrats leaving the president bubble blank or voting third party.

We have an enthusiasm problem in our party. And that absolutely is not at all fixed by ignoring minorities.

 

[shinra-bansho]

Needed a candidate more left.
Needed a candidate more right.
I guess both had a penis so there's some consistency there.
Needed a candidate to inspire minorities more.
Needed a candidate for rural whites.
Needed a candidate for urban millennials.
Drop the minorities.
Go all in on the minorities.
Drop the guns.
Drop other social issues.

This is a pretty hacksaw post-mortem. Where the only solid conclusion seems to be "should have listened to me/I told you so."

 

[Blader]

A week ago, we thought the GOP couldn't win the presidency for decades. And now suddenly the Democrats can't win the presidency forever without forgetting minorities (after having a minority president be the most popular leaving president in the history of popularity polls)

Even though I'm dreading the next four years (and god forbid, eight years), what you're getting at here has been actually some small comfort for me in the last 24 hours. Like you said, we went from thinking the GOP was doomed to win the presidency for years to suddenly the Republicans owning all three branches of government overnight. In 2004, we were told this was the beginning of a permanent Republican majority; four years later, Democrats controlled the White House and Congress with the first black president. In the aftermath of Obama's re-election, nobody predicted Trump or Bernie even running, much less resonating the way that they did.

For all the doom and gloom and anxiety I feel right now, I'm heartened by the fact that these things can and do change so quickly.

 

[dramatis]

Biden was as likely to turn those people out as Clinton and also would likely have done a better job with traditional Democratic rust belt voters.

I'm not debating that milennials et all suck but knowing what we know, he's better ceteris paribus.

The millennials would probably have churned out in favor of Biden because he's more "likeable".

People want to target white working class because they're the group the got Trump the election. But the truth is his vote total was not high. The last of the millennials have reached voting age and their bloc numbers are as big as boomers. They just don't vote. Which means if they turned out for a Dem candidate, they could have overcome the white working class.

The problem is betting on millennials is usually a losing strategy.

 

[GregLombardi]

Needed a candidate more left.
Needed a candidate more right.
I guess both had a penis so there's some consistency there.
Needed a candidate to inspire minorities more.
Needed a candidate for rural whites.
Needed a candidate for urban millennials.
Drop the minorities.
Go all in on the minorities.
Drop the guns.
Drop other social issues.

This is a pretty hacksaw post-mortem.

100%.

The real post-mortem is this: Donald Trump, at exactly the wrong time for the good of the country but exactly the right time for his candidacy, became the standard bearer of populist anger and channeled it to win.

 

[Barzul]

Get the rest of the white people who are Democrats who didn't vote because "both are the same, mehhhh" + the minorities and you win.

This was one of the worst Dem turnouts in a generation. But no, let's panic and make knee jerk reactions that we need to give up our morals (that won us the presidency in the past) ignore minorities and just full on white working class. It's a gross overreaction to an election where we have a campaign that clearly failed, polls that clearly failed, and turnout that was historically low. It's a cop out to try and pretend putting our most reliable demographics on the back burner is a good idea. That's madness.

A week ago, we thought the GOP couldn't win the presidency for decades. And now suddenly the Democrats can't win the presidency forever without forgetting minorities (after having a minority president be the most popular leaving president in the history of popularity polls)

We ran a weak candidate with serious issues (serious, campaign destroying issues!). We ignored those issues. She ran a bad campaign. We got lost in data and polls and couldn't see what was going on. We got too confident that Trump would turn off voters and this was a slam dunk. We made the same mistakes we made fun of the GOP primary goobers for. And we lost.

This right here. The right candidate and it's a slam dunk. If the exit polling is correct, 60% of people thought that Trump didn't have the qualifications for the job and yet many of those people still voted for him. Why? Because, Hillary was that unpopular a candidate. I think Romney would've beat her by 3-4 points in the popular vote but he may not have got the same EC map that Trump got.

 

[fantomena]

I just NOW really got into me that Clinton lost to Trump. What a failure.

 

[Diablos]

I'm outright disgusted that the first reaction the Democrats have to losing is to throw minorities under the bus

That's not my party. That's not who I thought we were. I guess we're not really all that different from Republicans after all.

FL and NV have minorities and Dems should keep focusing on those states. AZ and NC were just not ideal for this climate. Plus there are minorities in the rust belt. I don't think anyone is implying that we disregard minorities.

 

[Poodlestrike]

Needed a candidate more left.
Needed a candidate more right.
I guess both had a penis so there's some consistency there.
Needed a candidate to inspire minorities more.
Needed a candidate for rural whites.
Needed a candidate for urban millennials.
Drop the minorities.
Go all in on the minorities.
Drop the guns.
Drop other social issues.

This is a pretty hacksaw post-mortem.

I would say on balance that if I had to sum up a list here, I'd go for something like...

More Extreme. Not even more left or more right (though on the balance, more left), but someone who promises the moon. It's what people want.

Penis probably good, but I don't believe it's required.

Need a candidate who, no matter what they're speaking on or who they're speaking to, can do it in a catchy way. They don't even have to be Obama tier. People worry about the effects a proper GOP GOTV effort can make in 4 years, but my money's on them doubling down on "we don't need that shit," especially if Trump is at the top of the ticket. We do not need to distance ourselves from women and minority issues.

We probably do have to drop the guns, however. Or at least pick a candidate who they'd have enormous trouble painting as "take your guns away."

 

[benjipwns]

Needed a candidate more left.
Needed a candidate more right.
I guess both had a penis so there's some consistency there.
Needed a candidate to inspire minorities more.
Needed a candidate for rural whites.
Needed a candidate for urban millennials.
Drop the minorities.
Go all in on the minorities.
Drop the guns.
Drop other social issues.

This is a pretty hacksaw post-mortem. Where the only solid conclusion seems to be "should have listened to me/I told you so."

Should have ran Trump.

 

[shinra-bansho]

Oh I forgot weed. Because really farmers just want a joint.

Should have ran Trump.

Yes. Maybe they can just get him to switch parties now.

 

[A Link to the Past]

At the moment, my big hope is that Gen Z will be our Luke Skywalker to our Millennial Anakin Skywalker. Like, just hoping to high hopes that they care more.

 

[BrokenIcarus]

Is there any chance Trump's gonna be convicted in one of his many lawsuits? Probably not right? God damnit

 

[Pyrokai]

I'm still in a state of mourning. I feel the same way I do when I lose someone.


Our poor Supreme Court......I think that's what stings the most. Elections come and go, but the Supreme Court is a much more permanent thing and it's going to be extreme right for the rest of my life.

 

[Pixieking]

Needed a candidate more left.
Needed a candidate more right.
I guess both had a penis so there's some consistency there.
Needed a candidate to inspire minorities more.
Needed a candidate for rural whites.
Needed a candidate for urban millennials.
Drop the minorities.
Go all in on the minorities.
Drop the guns.
Drop other social issues.

This is a pretty hacksaw post-mortem.

Hate won. Hate can be... bribed, especially (in my opinion) if you throw the party of hate under the bus because they haven't delivered. I honestly believe that, and I want to try and prove it.

There's two other winners here, though.

One is liberal hand-wringing. Media "both sides are bad" bollocks, which, I can tell you now, has been normalised, and is seen in my wife's professional life as her colleagues saying "Trump is bad, but Hillary's emails"). (Btw, tihs is in a UK curriculum school in Jordan, with British, French and American nationals, as well as Jordanians).

The other winner is the fucking base that whines when policy isn't discussed, but could. Not. Care. Less. About. Policy. "Give us a charismatic nominee!" Fuck thee off. Either Democrats care about policy - in which case LGBTQ, education, mental health, drugs, guns, abortion rights, healthcare for all were enough - or they care about entertainment and a person.

There is no bigger sign that the Dem base doesn't incentivize behind policy rather than leader, than being indifferent to a guy who says he grabs women by the pussy.


Edit: Read that list of policies again. Then again. And now again. The WWC not going Dem, I get. But anyone else who cared for any part of their country or people - who had an ounce of empathy - should not have been indifferent on that policy ticket. If I could put all the people who were indifferent in Trumpland, and leave everyone else out, I would. Because they deserve that.

 

[benjipwns]

Is there any chance Trump's gonna be convicted in one of his many lawsuits? Probably not right? God damnit

They're lawsuits, not criminal trials.

 

[Maxim726X]

100%.

The real post-mortem is this: Donald Trump, at exactly the wrong time for the good of the country but exactly the right time for his candidacy, became the standard bearer of populist anger and channeled it to win.

Bullshit. Dems didn't show up.

If they had the same turnout as 2012, it's a slam dunk. 2008 and it would have been an embarrassment.

But once again, fucking Democrats stayed home. Easy to say why in hindsight, but she was a weak candidate and we will pay the price for the next 30 years.

 

[Zackat]

Giving up the morals that create the backbone of the party would turn me away. I also think it is not going to happen. But there is something to be said about trying to get those voters that are worried about the economy and their jobs back on the side of democrats. Why should they not try to talk to those voters frankly about those things? The economy and keeping manufacturing jobs here in America was obviously a deeply resonant message for a large part of the electorate. Not going to the rust belt to talk to those voters directly about these things was a mistake.

Never give up on the cause for minorities, lgbt, environmental causes, or gun regulation, etc. Don't give an inch there. If those voters cannot be swayed while being on the same page with Democrats on those issues then fuck em. I don't want them.

 

[BrokenIcarus]

They're lawsuits, not criminal trials.

Wasn't there one about sexual assault though?

 

[Valdfellgar]

I'm outright disgusted that the first reaction the Democrats have to losing is to throw minorities under the bus

That's not my party. That's not who I thought we were. I guess we're not really all that different from Republicans after all.

I think the problem is this forum, and much of the hardcore liberal base, was entirely caught off guard. What we're seeing today is just knee-jerk reactions and a lot of looking back over the past year to try and find the quickest and easiest solution to what was wrong. I'm seeing it here, and I'm seeing it from former classmates on facebook, mostly Canadians providing the outside perspective.

I'm seeing a lot of people try to distill it down into simple changes: Focus on the lower class white, we just have to understand their grievances and we'll be okay. Double down on minorities, we needed that extra vote. A more charismatic candidate, that's all we needed.

The trouble is what went wrong is so much more complex than simple changes. There isn't one issue that's suddenly going to change everything for the better in 2020. People just want an easy answer right now, an easy scapegoat to point to and say "That's what we should've done!" The trouble is such an answer doesn't exist, but it's natural to just want to figure out what went wrong and how to fix it right away, like placing a band aid.

As we move further away from this election people will calm down, they have to. And through that you'll find a more rational conversation begin about how best to combat stagnating apathy among voters in 2020. How best to address the rural white voter's issues without appealing to racist agendas and beliefs that the Republicans have now capitalized on.

I'd also say that the Tulsi Gabbard 2020 thread getting locked is a sign that this forum, if not the liberal side of this country, isn't ready to accept our present situation just yet. But people will calm down and the knee-jerk reactions will subside.

My personal belief is that a lot went wrong on Nov 8th. Hillary ran with a campaign that capalitized on Minorities, but didn't do enough to court the voting block Bernie had managed to enchant. Bernie himself had failed to court minorities himself, and one thing we need in 2020 is someone who exhibits aspects that both Bernie and Hillary possessed. We need someone who is charismatic, we need someone who can be seen as an outsider to the system at large, but who also holds great experience.

But I think the liberal side of this country also has an issue, an issue that kept 6.8 million from voting-- we're too starry-eyed. We always want perfection and many aren't willing to settle. That's one thing we can learn from Trump's voting block (although hopefully not to such a disgusting degree) we have to be ready to compromise on our candidates a bit more, and accept them as good, yet flawed.

 

[benjipwns]

Wasn't there one about sexual assault though?

Was dropped I believe. And it was a civil suit anyway.

Long after statute of limitations or something.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

Bullshit. Dems didn't show up.

If they had the same turnout as 2012, it's a slam dunk. 2008 and it would have been an embarrassment.

But once again, fucking Democrats stayed home. Easy to say why in hindsight, but she was a weak candidate and we will pay the price for the next 30 years.

Which Dems? Like, which Democratic demographics specifically failed to turn up? And why?

As a guide: don't just say millennials because it makes you feel good. Look at where our votes disappeared. Who was it?

 

[newshinycd]

Get the rest of the white people who are Democrats who didn't vote because "both are the same, mehhhh" + the minorities and you win.

This was one of the worst Dem turnouts in a generation. But no, let's panic and make knee jerk reactions that we need to give up our morals (that won us the presidency in the past) ignore minorities and just full on white working class. It's a gross overreaction to an election where we have a campaign that clearly failed, polls that clearly failed, and turnout that was historically low. It's a cop out to try and pretend putting our most reliable demographics on the back burner is a good idea. That's madness.

A week ago, we thought the GOP couldn't win the presidency for decades. And now suddenly the Democrats can't win the presidency forever without forgetting minorities (after having a minority president be the most popular leaving president in the history of popularity polls)

We ran a weak candidate with serious issues (serious, campaign destroying issues!). We ignored those issues. She ran a bad campaign. We got lost in data and polls and couldn't see what was going on. We got too confident that Trump would turn off voters and this was a slam dunk. We made the same mistakes we made fun of the GOP primary goobers for. And we lost.

I think we can win in 2020. I think 2018 could be a possibility if the GOP congress shoots themselves in the foot trying to govern. For the last eight years they've blamed Democrats for, well, everything. Now that they have Congress and the White House, they actually have to work. Personally, I don't see them going full HAM because if they screw up it's just going to drive turnout next elections.

But we are going to have to fight like hell if we want the Senate or White House back. Same for Governors mansions and state legislatures. Personally, I think a Trump victory is just the swift kick in the ass (or face rather) the Democrats needed. The generation that grew up through the Bush years are about to go through it again. Hopefully this time we'll learn to not get complacent.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

We laughed at the Republican primary for having a million candidates and yet our primary was a failure with 2 candidates. It gave us two not really strong candidates. Our primary process failed, not their's. But we were too stuck up in thinking we were invincible that we didn't even notice.

Hillary was going to lose the minute she accepted the nomination. She was an unwinnable candidate. She was bland. She had scandals. Her brand was tainted. We didn't know this at the time, though. We even shouted from the roof tops that even the mighty Kasich couldn't beat her (Kasich would have absolutely and completely destroyed her). We got over confident

This election should humble us. We can't fumble around with a candidate who "deserves" to be president with glaring issues. We need to bring our A game every single election and never assume we're going to win an election just because our opponent is terrible.

 

[A Human Becoming]

Biden is likeable. People like him. He is relatable.

That's all that matters. He would have won.

It would not have solved the long term problem in the rust belt though. Dems are kind of fucked going forward.

Some people in here were in denial about this. I figured Democrats could pull out one more win because of how awful Trump was, but they just couldn't turn out enough people.

 

[Maxim726X]

Which Dems? Like, which Democratic demographics specifically failed to turn up? And why?

As a guide: don't just say millennials because it makes you feel good. Look at where our votes disappeared. Who was it?

We don't have that data yet, to my knowledge. If we do, I'd love to read it.

And yes, I would imagine a large chunk of those who stayed home were millennials. I'd love to be proven wrong.

 

[Y2Kev]

Hint: it's white people in the rust belt

 

[teiresias]

I think we can win in 2020. I think 2018 could be a possibility if the GOP congress shoots themselves in the foot trying to govern. For the last eight years they've blamed Democrats for, well, everything. Now that they have Congress and the White House, they actually have to work. Personally, I don't see them going full HAM because if they screw up it's just going to drive turnout next elections.

But we are going to have to fight like hell if we want the Senate or White House back. Same for Governors mansions and state legislatures. Personally, I think a Trump victory is just the swift kick in the ass (or face rather) the Democrats needed. The generation that grew up through the Bush years are about to go through it again. Hopefully this time we'll learn to not get complacent.

And those that grew up (politically) only in the Obama years are about to experience it for the first time.

 

[JetBlackPanda]

We don't have that data yet, to my knowledge. If we do, I'd love to read it.

And yes, I would imagine a large chunk of those who stayed home were millennials. I'd love to be proven wrong.

I'm sure a ton of millennials did stay home but they probably weren't even registered. What block of voters from 2012 stayed home? They didn't flip to trump because the numbers are lower overall. It's just casual dems that said "both parties are the same" fuck this.

Well enjoy the next 4 years. Ben Carson already posting on facebook about a new manifest destiny.

 

[Kusagari]

The core Democrat voters showed up in sufficient numbers, outside of blacks in NC for obvious reasons.

People need to stop trying to blame minorities or young people. This loss is on the secret backbone of Obama's coalition, perceived moderate working class whites, completely abandoning the party.

 

[royalan]

Hint: it's white people in the rust belt

DING DING

 

[Leninpest]

Needed a candidate more left.
Needed a candidate more right.
I guess both had a penis so there's some consistency there.
Needed a candidate to inspire minorities more.
Needed a candidate for rural whites.
Needed a candidate for urban millennials.
Drop the minorities.
Go all in on the minorities.
Drop the guns.
Drop other social issues.

This is a pretty hacksaw post-mortem. Where the only solid conclusion seems to be "should have listened to me/I told you so."

I don't think a lot of these things are as conflicting as they appear to be. Hillary Clinton fell into a strange political middle (which she was proud of) that, in the year 2016, did not appeal to as many people as she had hoped. I think it's a lesson for the democrats that people don't really like triangulation as much as the Clinton camp made it sound like they did. Telling a room full of progressive democrats that single payer would "never, ever come to pass" - EVEN IF IT'S TRUE (and I don't think it is) - is bad politicking and literally the least exciting or engaging thing a democratic nominee could do.

 

[Y2Kev]

You can't even blame black people because look at the margins in Philadelphia. The cities delivered.

It's white people.

White people are still 70% of the country. You have to target white people. You can do it without being a legendary racist. But you have to target white people!

And of that 70% 40% have no teeth and own tractors.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

Keep Nevada and Virginia Blue (they will stay blue) add NC and Florida and that's how we hit 270. Next election we hit NC hard. We need this state to be blue. We try to get Hispanic turnout as high as possible in Florida and make sure lean Dems actually bother voting.

We go back to Michigan and PA and WI. We only lost them by 1-2%. That's a margin we can make up with hard work. We give up on Iowa and Ohio, wasted resources. We don't run an establishment wealthy person with no charisma. Hillary was a Romney and we didn't even notice. She had no appeal to the working class. We should have seen that. Now we know.

 

[Leninpest]

We don't have that data yet, to my knowledge. If we do, I'd love to read it.

And yes, I would imagine a large chunk of those who stayed home were millennials. I'd love to be proven wrong.

And even if it was Hillary Clinton spent the entire general election resisting any sort of real messaging to millenials. I don't blame them for not being enthusiastic. Showing up on Broad City is not outreach to millenials.

 

[Pixieking]

1) Trump had scandals. His base didn't care. His base consists of (amongst other things) bigots, racists, the Klan (David Duke actually said his base helped get Trump elected) and people who think sexual assault is okay. Also women who wear shirts saying "Grope this!"

2) The people who are peddling the "charisma" line should stop and think. Trump is the natural end-point - he is all about the charisma, and none of the policy. He is the anti-Hillary (in so many ways). People should get it through their heads that politics shouldn't be fun and entertainment - it should be about policy. Policy is not fun! Do you think FDR was fun? Roosevelt? What about Angela Merkel?

Start owning those two points. Realise that you're selling the Dem base down the river, by trying to always give them what they want - a charismatic leader - and not what they need, which is strong policies and rights.

Fucking hell, the GOP don't care - they're based around gun rights and outlawing abortion. They could've run an inanimate carbon rod this year, and he would've polled high on the two key pieces of Republican policy.

 

[anaron]

I still don't get how intelligent people like Cornel West or Chris Hedges don't see that supporting Hillary is in their best interest. Especially given that they supported a buffoon like Jill Stein.

because they're dumbass purity voters who just contributed to the handing of Trump's win.

 

[Good Job Bob]

Still boggles my mind that her campaign forgot to shore up the Rust Belt.