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PoliGAF 2016 |OT15| Orange is the New Black

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T

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
Whelp

Facebook friend just rolled out "I just want us to stop being so divided" and "I don't want you to fixate on every little small thing that goes wrong"

I'm done
 
T

Totakeke

Member
Bowdz said:
Personally, I think we need to address the DNC and state parties first. Remember that the GOP owns the government now in full. If they fuck things up, it is on them and we need to remind voters of it. Thus, as daunting as the 2018 map looks, we need to start organizing NOW to hold seats that look unwinnable, take back state legislatures and state houses, and start running as a real opposition party. We need to rebuild the party and the future bench of the party from the ground up. Get local with our outreach, listen to all voters, make the effort, and campaign honest, passionate candidates.

We need to rebuild bottom up not top down.
Click to expand...

As long we cannot be confident of polls and data, a bottom up strategy is far less risky as well and we can afford to be wrong more often. Relying on winning the presidency is the definition of putting all our eggs in one basket right now.
 
B

Bowdz

Member
metalslimer said:
The entire DNC has been a disaster for like 8 years that was covered up by Obama being amazing.
Click to expand...

Yep. I think Dems thought that we could all coast on Obama's charisma, talent, and vision. We now have two glaring examples that this doesn't work. We need a robust, ground up party that is competitive in every state. If we get another Obama-like candidate on the national level, that'd be icing on the cake. We can never be an effective national party again unless we are competitive in the House and in local races all over the country. That is what will grow our crop of future contenders.
 
M

mo60

Member
metalslimer said:
Donny Brazille needs to go now. I've always liked her but the old Clinton guard needs to be replaced.

No we don't need a part time DNC chair. This is a colossal task that needs to be done and it's going to take full attention
Click to expand...

She will be gone by March. It's easier to let stay around and help her build the democratic party again while her successor gets picked.
 
T

thefro

Member
B-Dubs said:
The Howard Dean years seemed pretty good. We retook the House under him and he presided over Obama's first election. Then for some reason we ditched him.
Click to expand...

Typically you leave after a few years as chair.

Anyway, then we got Kaine & DWS doing it as part-timers.
 
P

pigeon

Banned
The Technomancer said:
Good. I want the turmoil now. I don't want the turmoil in early 2017. That's too late. If we're prepping for the midterms it starts yesterday
Click to expand...

This is Corbyn stuff.

Basically, game is over for people of color if this continues.

Thanks a lot white liberals, tell me more about Bernie Sanders
 
T

tedrotheredro

Member
Honestly, the Democratic party needs a massive shakeup. Not with personnel, but with their message and methods of attack.

First off, why was she doing rallies? Rallies were great for Trump, but Clinton NEVER looked good doing them. She sounded terrible stumping. The media must cover a candidate, so give them something GOOD to cover.

Why couldn't they film short "day in the life of Hillary" clips every day and upload to YouTube? Record her meetings with community members in rural and urban areas all over the US. Press social media in more ways than "Go to my website!". She was never a speech giver, but she was always great with smaller discussion-based crowds and sitting at the table.

Rallies are for old fuddy duddies anyway, and if the Democrats were smart, they'd have played that angle up.
 
B

Bowdz

Member
I just hope that the DNC does away with superdelegates and institutes open primaries nationwide. Get ride of all the points of contention the far left had and open the party up to those wishing to join. Clean house and deal with all of the shit people brought up this cycle.
 
T

Totakeke

Member
VendettaRed07 said:
No way. He, like Clinton, read everything wrong too on how to approach this.
Click to expand...

I agree Obama was wrong and Hillary inherited his machine, but he is an excellent organizer and a calm-headed leader that can learn from his mistakes. As long as he is willing to do it I doubt there are few more qualified for the job. I don't think he has any disillusions as to why Hillary's campaign failed.

Fuck optics and fuck polls and ratings but I'd like to believe that he is still very likable.
 
B

BreezyLimbo

Banned
The Technomancer said:
Whelp

Facebook friend just rolled out "I just want us to stop being so divided" and "I don't want you to fixate on every little small thing that goes wrong"

I'm done
Click to expand...

Fuck those type of people.

"LGBT rights? Immigration? Climate change? Racism? Stop focusing on those small things, we have to focus on being united."

Man. Some people just don't understand. Probably live in a secure bubble.
 
C

Crocodile

Member
People are taking some annoying extreme, dogmatic positions in here. These are ALL true at the same time:

  1. The Clinton campaign made some mistakes and Clinton isn't "charismatic" and has baggage
  2. The Clinton campaign had to deal with some bullshit outside their control that no other campaign in history had to (Russia, FBI fuckery, Media obsessed with EMAILS, etc.). If A or B weren't true I think Clinton takes this pretty easy. However both were true so she failed.
  3. Democratic base needs to be enthused in a way the GOP base doesn't. It sucks but its true. There base hasn't changed over the years in numbers, ours ebbs and wanes.
  4. WWC have real concerns that are worth addressing and speaking towards though it has to be in ways other than or beyond policy
  5. All those WWC who voted explicitly for racism or were fine overlooking racism are fucking assholes and PoC have every right to feel betrayed right now. We just want to be equal with everybody else, not have our lives oppressed.
  6. Both the GOP and the Democrats were fundamentally and permanently changed this election. GOP voters don't give a shit about Paul Ryan's budget and when he passes shit and they see it won't improve their lives, they will spurn most (I assume not all) "traditional" Republicans moving forward. The GOP won't be all Trump all the time moving forward (I hope not) but they are going to take a more populist tinge.
  7. The Democrats have to rebuild at the state and lower levels. DNC needs some fixing (this "Zach" is right even if he's kind of being an asshole about it). Message > Policy (which we should still have granted) has been the key to all Democrat victories in the modern era. Moderate on some issues but DO NOT abandon minorities or women (seriously don't fucking do it) on the route to populism. Find "Blue Dog" Democrats to run and win in Red States.
Bowdz said:
I just hope that the DNC does away with superdelegates and institutes open primaries nationwide. Get ride of all the points of contention the far left had and open the party up to those wishing to join. Clean house and deal with all of the shit people brought up this cycle.
Click to expand...

I'm still not entirely sure I want completely open primaries? Or at least leave it up to the states still. I don't want to fall into the timeline where we nominate Sean Penn or some shit.
 
B

Blader

Member
What's the problem with part-time DNC chairs?

And why can't Dean come back? The role can't possibly be term limited right? Or at least, get someone like Dean in it. Clearly his strategy paid off 10 years and Kaine's and DWS' did not.
 
P

Plinko

Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
Blader said:
What's the problem with part-time DNC chairs?

And why can't Dean come back? The role can't possibly be term limited right? Or at least, get someone like Dean in it. Clearly his strategy paid off 10 years and Kaine's and DWS' did not.
Click to expand...

The DNC is in shambles. They need a full-time person to start rebuilding.
 
W

Wilsongt

Member
The Technomancer said:
Whelp

Facebook friend just rolled out "I just want us to stop being so divided" and "I don't want you to fixate on every little small thing that goes wrong"

I'm done
Click to expand...

I'm getting things like that on Facebook, also

I'm offended by the comment "most of his supporters post hateful and racist negative comments". Both myself and a large majority of my family and friends are Trump supporters and I've not seen any of them post anything hateful, racist OR negative. No, of course I don't stand behind everything Trump says but just because I'm a supporter doesn't mean I should be blamed for everything he says. I hope that being a Hillary supporter doesn't mean that you think it's acceptable to lie and kill people. It's shameful that people are now attacking their friends and family simply because of a difference of opinion. When did diplomatic debates and discussions turn into bashing others because people are upset their candidate didn't win? Both candidates have their flaws but generalizing their supporters and discriminating against them is the opposite of love trumping hate.
Click to expand...

what we have seen from Hillary supporters in the aftermath of the election is unacceptable...Love trump hate? Party of inclusion and acceptance of everyone? Unless they don't agree with your ideology, right? biggest scam in politics is the liberal ideology pulling the wool over the eyes of the american people and minorities in particular as the "safe" place for them. hypocrites.
Click to expand...

Tone deaf.
 
D

Dan

No longer boycotting the Wolfenstein franchise
The Technomancer said:
Whelp

Facebook friend just rolled out "I just want us to stop being so divided" and "I don't want you to fixate on every little small thing that goes wrong"

I'm done
Click to expand...
A lot of people are quickly busting out the smarm.

What is smarm, exactly? Smarm is a kind of performance—an assumption of the forms of seriousness, of virtue, of constructiveness, without the substance. Smarm is concerned with appropriateness and with tone. Smarm disapproves.

Smarm would rather talk about anything other than smarm. Why, smarm asks, can't everyone just be nicer?

...

But let's get at the deeper substance. What defines smarm, as it functions in our culture? "Smarm" and "smarmy" go back to the older "smalm," meaning to smooth something down with grease—and by extension to be unctuous or flattering, or smug. Smarm aspires to smother opposition or criticism, to cover everything over with an artificial, oily gloss.
Click to expand...

Diet Republicans who desperately want to ignore and avoid responsibility for the actions of their violent and hate-filled allies.
 
A

Abinash117

Member
Officerrob said:
The part-timer thing does suck, but I'd support Ellison
Click to expand...

A lot of public officials supported Hillary and Obama is still pretty influence. Obama will still be in politics after he leaves the office, so any supporters of both of them will not support Keith since if I read right not a fundraiser and won't be around. I say that the progressive wing, might get more influential, but to the point of dominance. A lot of public officials still really like Hillary and Obama. Bernie still does not have the support of the likes of them. Even politicians he supported still lost a lot right?
 
P

Parshias7

Member
The Technomancer said:
Whelp

Facebook friend just rolled out "I just want us to stop being so divided" and "I don't want you to fixate on every little small thing that goes wrong"

I'm done
Click to expand...

Saw some unity posts on my Facebook feed as well. I don't even engage.

If I did, I'd say, "Really? Like the same unity the Republicans showed to President Obama after we elected him twice?" Get the fuck out of here.
 
H

Hindl

Member
Blader said:
What's the problem with part-time DNC chairs?

And why can't Dean come back? The role can't possibly be term limited right? Or at least, get someone like Dean in it. Clearly his strategy paid off 10 years and Kaine's and DWS' did not.
Click to expand...

There's not a problem if they do the job effectively per se, but any job where you're only working part-time vs full time will obviously not get as much attention from you. And the DNC needs full focus to be rebuilt
 
B

Blader

Member
Plinko said:
The DNC is in shambles. They need a full-time person to start rebuilding.
Click to expand...

What I'm asking is, why is that something a part-timer can't do? Because to me it sounds like the problem with Kaine and DWS wasn't the amount of time they could devote to being the party chair, but their overall strategy. Or does the former dictate the latter? Was Dean's 50-state strategy feasible because he could devote his whole day to it?
 
B

BanGy.nz

Banned
Obama as DNC chair would be the best choice for holding together his coalition and is amazing at raising money. He's also disliked how the DNC was run for decades....
 
S

shinra-bansho

Member
dramatis said:
I didn't laugh or mock them. I just thought voters could be people who could vote for a better future, regardless of personalities or candidates.

Instead, there is a fixation on a person. Not just Hillary or Trump, but also Sanders. Biden. Obama. Michelle. Warren.

Maybe it was just my philosophy of voting. I cast votes not because I believe I should put the weight of the whole country on one pair of shoulders, but because I believe my vote represents the direction I want the country to proceed in. That government is not about a singular person but about the collective ability of people to steer a very large, very varied ship.

Candidates and individual presidents are fleeting. Yes, they make important decisions in office that change many lives. But the fact of US democracy is that we do not have dictatorships, we have two-terms-at-most presidents and life continues after an idol leaves the office. Legislation is written by Congress. Laws are weighed by the Supreme Court. You cannot rely on having the zeitgeist of the moment represented in human form every single presidential election. You cannot rely on that person to be the winner in a primary or a general election.

What happens when the 'chosen one' candidate loses the primary again next time? Or the time after that? Why is it so hard for liberals to unify behind a platform and a direction for America rather than behind a person that they burden with all their hopes and then abandon during the midterms?

It is incredibly troubling that people were ready to declare Bernie Sanders a 'martyr' after the election, as if he had been martyred for anything. If anything, the people who were martyred this election were Obama and Hillary. Obama, because all the progress he fought for in 8 years will be wiped out. Hillary, because she believed America was good.

It is laughable to chant economic anxiety and economic populism and then champion democratic socialism. Because in the end economic populism is also about greed and capitalism, over community and love and kindness. It's about the capitalistic wants of the white rural voters.
Click to expand...
This is from pages ago. But it's basically my view. I have voted in elections since I've been able. Not for some great love of any individual, but because there was a best available option to govern.

All this talk of finding unicorn candidates is depressing because it shows how weak, entitled and fairweather the voting blocks of ostensibly the left in the US can be. Because while some will vote like their life depends on it - because it does for them, others couldn't be bothered because they'll be fine in a Trump white nationalist world.
 
K

kadotsu

Banned
So should the DNC change its primary process? And if yes how? No superdelegates, a more packed or fragmented state schedule requirements for independent participation?
 
B

Barzul

Member
tedrotheredro said:
Honestly, the Democratic party needs a massive shakeup. Not with personnel, but with their message and methods of attack.

First off, why was she doing rallies? Rallies were great for Trump, but Clinton NEVER looked good doing them. She sounded terrible stumping. The media must cover a candidate, so give them something GOOD to cover.

Why couldn't they film short "day in the life of Hillary" clips every day and upload to YouTube? Record her meetings with community members in rural and urban areas all over the US. Press social media in more ways than "Go to my website!". She was never a speech giver, but she was always great with smaller discussion-based crowds and sitting at the table.

Rallies are for old fuddy duddies anyway, and if the Democrats were smart, they'd have played that angle up.
Click to expand...


I've wondered why this hasn't been done yet. It's straight out of the GOP guy in House of Cards season 4 handbook, but I think this move would legit work if balanced with old school methods.
 
S

SerAardvark

Member
Even setting aside his age and possible lack of interest - I'd be hesitant rely too much on the dream of Reid installing his machine into the DNC nationwide, anyway. What works in Nevada won't necessarily work in other states and with other demographic splits (let alone as part of a nationwide process).
 
W

whyamihere

Banned
N

numble

Member
pigeon said:
Because we know nothing and this is a video game message board.

If you work for HFA, yes, please postmortem. Trying to postmortem on zero information is idiotic.
Click to expand...

I worked for OFA in Ohio and Pennsylvania. I think it is clear from the public information, the exit polls and even statements from Biden that the Obama-Biden campaign worked hard to include Rust Belt workers in their coalition with anti-trade rhetoric.

We do not have zero information. There is a lot of public information. It is public information that Obama was campaigning in Wisconsin on August 24, 2008, while Hillary was at a campaign fundraiser with Meg Whitman on August 23, 2016 and spending the week courting Jeb donors in California.

This was her schedule in late August:
http://www.p2016.org/clinton/clintoncal0816.html
August 18 - New York, NY
August 19 - Martha's Vineyard, MA
August 20 - Nantucket, MA, Martha's Vineyard, MA
August 21 - Provincetown, MA, Osterville, MA
August 22 - Beverly Hills, CA
August 23 - Los Angeles, CA, Laguna Beach, CA, Piedmont, CA
August 24 - Redwood City, CA, Los Altos, CA, Woodside, CA
August 25 - Reno, NV
August 26 - None
August 27 - White Plains, NY
August 28 - Sag Harbor, NY, Southampton, NY, Bridgehampton, NY
August 29 - East Hampton, NY, Quogue, NY
August 30 - Sagaponack, NY, North Haven, NY
August 31 - Cincinnati, OH


This was Obama's schedule in 2008:
https://www2.gwu.edu/~action/2008/obama/obamacal0808.html
August 18 - Albuquerque, NM
August 19 - Orlando, FL, Raleigh, NC
August 20 - Greensboro, NC, Martinsville, VA, Danville, VA, Lynchburg, VA
August 21 - Richmond, VA, Chester, VA, Petersburg, VA, Emporia, VA, Chesapeake, VA
August 22 - Chicago, IL
August 23 - Springfield, IL
August 24 - Eau Claire, WI
August 25 - Davenport, IA, Kansas City, MO
August 26 - Kansas City, MO
August 27 - Billings, MT, Denver, CO
August 28 - Denver, CO
August 29 - Monaca, PA, Aliquippa, PA, Beaver, PA
August 30 - Boardman, OH, Cleveland, OH, Marengo, OH, Dublin, OH
August 31 - Lima, OH, Toledo, OH, Hamilton, IN, Battle Creek, MI
 
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