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PoliGAF 2016 |OT15| Orange is the New Black

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O

Officerrob

Banned
numble said:
I worked for OFA in Ohio and Pennsylvania. I think it is clear from the public information, the exit polls and even statements from Biden that the Obama-Biden campaign worked hard to include Rust Belt workers in their coalition with anti-trade rhetoric.

We do not have zero information. There is a lot of public information. It is public information that Obama was campaigning in Wisconsin on August 24, 2008, while Hillary was at a campaign fundraiser with Meg Whitman on August 23, 2016 and spending the week courting Jeb donors in California.

This was her schedule in late August:
http://www.p2016.org/clinton/clintoncal0816.html
August 18 - New York, NY
August 19 - Martha's Vineyard, MA
August 20 - Nantucket, MA, Martha's Vineyard, MA
August 21 - Provincetown, MA, Osterville, MA
August 22 - Beverly Hills, CA
August 23 - Los Angeles, CA, Laguna Beach, CA, Piedmont, CA
August 24 - Redwood City, CA, Los Altos, CA, Woodside, CA
August 25 - Reno, NV
August 26 - None
August 27 - White Plains, NY
August 28 - Sag Harbor, NY, Southampton, NY, Bridgehampton, NY
August 29 - East Hampton, NY, Quogue, NY
August 30 - Sagaponack, NY, North Haven, NY
August 31 - Cincinnati, OH


This was Obama's schedule in 2008:
https://www2.gwu.edu/~action/2008/obama/obamacal0808.html
August 18 - Albuquerque, NM
August 19 - Orlando, FL, Raleigh, NC
August 20 - Greensboro, NC, Martinsville, VA, Danville, VA, Lynchburg, VA
August 21 - Richmond, VA, Chester, VA, Petersburg, VA, Emporia, VA, Chesapeake, VA
August 22 - Chicago, IL
August 23 - Springfield, IL
August 24 - Eau Claire, WI
August 25 - Davenport, IA, Kansas City, MO
August 26 - Kansas City, MO
August 27 - Billings, MT, Denver, CO
August 28 - Denver, CO
August 29 - Monaca, PA, Aliquippa, PA, Beaver, PA
August 30 - Boardman, OH, Cleveland, OH, Marengo, OH, Dublin, OH
August 31 - Lima, OH, Toledo, OH, Hamilton, IN, Battle Creek, MI
Click to expand...

That's pretty telling...
 
JetBlackPanda

JetBlackPanda

Member
Crocodile said:
I can't watch the video right now but looking at the comments I'm seeing a lot of "Sanders was a savior who got cheated by the DNC" and I don't have time for that right now. I'm also hoping one of the points isn't "don't call out racism/sexism".
Click to expand...

Grexeno said:
Stopped when the "Sanders would have won card" came out. The establishment candidate lost, but that sure as hell doesn't mean the outsider candidate would have won.
Click to expand...

I guess I should clarify I don't agree Sanders would have won, Hillary was my candidate from day 1.

however he is right about pretty much everything on Clinton, she was a bad candidate, especially this year.
 
H

Hindl

Member
JetBlackPanda said:
I guess I should clarify I don't agree Sanders would have won, Hillary was my candidate from day 1.

however he is right about pretty much everything on Clinton, she was a bad candidate, especially this year.
Click to expand...

My problem is that yes that's true. And of course the DNC favored Hillary, but they didn't prop her up. None of these Sanders is the savior videos address the fact that, had Sanders won the nomination, they would've oppressed millions of minority voters who explicitly voted against that outcome. Neither Hillary nor Bernie would've won. The rest about the arrogance of the DNC elite I agree with though.
 
JetBlackPanda

JetBlackPanda

Member
Hindl said:
My problem is that yes that's true. And of course the DNC favored Hillary, but they didn't prop her up. None of these Sanders is the savior videos address the fact that, had Sanders won the nomination, they would've oppressed millions of minority voters who explicitly voted against that outcome. Neither Hillary nor Bernie would've won. The rest about the arrogance of the DNC elite I agree with though.
Click to expand...

its not a sanders is the savior video, he says that in the beginning because he believes it but its about 4 seconds of the entire thing.
 
B

BanGy.nz

Banned
Donna was a political operative who saw an advantage to her party and took it, sure she should go but she sure as fuck shouldn't be demonized for helping her party.
 
T

Totakeke

Member
numble said:
I worked for OFA in Ohio and Pennsylvania. I think it is clear from the public information, the exit polls and even statements from Biden that the Obama-Biden campaign worked hard to include Rust Belt workers in their coalition with anti-trade rhetoric.

We do not have zero information. There is a lot of public information. It is public information that Obama was campaigning in Wisconsin on August 24, 2008, while Hillary was at a campaign fundraiser with Meg Whitman on August 23, 2016 and spending the week courting Jeb donors in California.
Click to expand...

These kind of analysis requires context and careful research. It's not something to draw conclusions from just within minutes.

Here's another difference. Clinton is a woman. Obama is a man.
 
M

mo60

Member
BanGy.nz said:
Donna was a political operative who saw an advantage to her party and took it, sure she should go but she sure as fuck shouldn't be demonized for helping her party.
Click to expand...

Like I said earlier. Keep her as the chair until her term is up and get someone else to run that is actually decent.
 
D

Deleted member 231381

Unconfirmed Member
mo60 said:
Like I said earlier. Keep her as the chair until her term is up and get someone else to run that is actually decent.
Click to expand...

Why keep her in her chair? Like, if you want change in the Democratic Party, the most important place to start is the chair. So why are we letting one of the people behind the greatest failure of the Democratic party in decades stay more than a second longer? She should have offered her resignation yesterday!
 
D

Deleted member 231381

Unconfirmed Member
Crocodile said:
Isn't Donna on her way out anyway in a short bit? Unless we have a replacement already lined up does it matter if she leaves tomorrow or in two months?
Click to expand...

You have 24 months until 2018's national elections. 2 months time is 8.33% of all that time. When Trump is President and 2018 offers even a tiny glimmer of retaking the Senate, do you want to be wasting 8.33% of your time?
 
B

BiggNife

Member
I feel like my main concern is that most people in the DNC want to keep Brazile because they live in a bubble.

Yes, we can praise Zach for being the guy to say everything is bullshit right now, but that's ignoring the fact that he was booed and Brazile's speech got massive cheers.
 
C

Crocodile

Member
Crab said:
You have 24 months until 2018's national elections. 2 months time is 8.33% of all that time. When Trump is President and 2018 offers even a tiny glimmer of retaking the Senate, do you want to be wasting 8.33% of your time?
Click to expand...

A) Do we have someone to replace her? I've heard names thrown out but nobody has said, "yes I'll take the job right now"! If we do then go ahead. Or do you want to replace and interim chair with another interim chair while we wait for a real chair?

B) Thanksgiving + Christmas means the rest of the year is likely not to be as productive as we'd like anyway. Though still, the first question is still point A I made.
 
G

Grexeno

Member
Dierce said:
If this does not lead to a Democratic wave election in 2018 and 2020 I don't know what will.
Click to expand...
Republicans will come out in force due to all the violence to vote for "law and order", Democrats will stay home because they don't know what the fuck a midterm is.
 
B

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
sphagnum said:
We're gonna need to get ready for street fighting soon to be honest.
Click to expand...

The Dems lose because they don't twist the knife. They don't put it where it belongs in the first place. The GOP will salt the Earth to win, the Dems need to be willing to do the same or this shit will keep happening.
 
K

Kid Heart

Member
shinra-bansho said:
This is from pages ago. But it's basically my view. I have voted in elections since I've been able. Not for some great love of any individual, but because there was a best available option to govern.

All this talk of finding unicorn candidates is depressing because it shows how weak, entitled and fairweather the voting blocks of ostensibly the left in the US can be. Because while some will vote like their life depends on it - because it does for them, others couldn't be bothered because they'll be fine in a Trump white nationalist world.
Click to expand...

I've always been a huge fan of this phrase that Kennedy used once:

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing"

To be honest I feel as if after yesterday those words ring true now more then ever. After Trump's victory the media seems already complacent to try and sweep everything Trump said prior to the election under the rug. I really hope I'm wrong, but I feel a storm is coming and I hope our nation is ready to weather it.
 
B

BreezyLimbo

Banned
Fox318 said:
Bernie on CNN practically sounds like Trump.
Click to expand...

Bernie and Trump were two sides of the same coin.

They were both anti-establishment, they both appealed to white voters, they were anti-trade and hated the elite...

...I think that's why people are saying Bernie had a chance. Clinton was an Establishment Elite that didn't appeal to alot of people.
 
M

mo60

Member
Crab said:
You have 24 months until 2018's national elections. 2 months time is 8.33% of all that time. When Trump is President and 2018 offers even a tiny glimmer of retaking the Senate, do you want to be wasting 8.33% of your time?
Click to expand...

The democrats need to line up someone good to take the position of DNC chair. It may take a bit of time to find someone that is good to take that position. Donna should get involved a bit in the process of reforming the party including finding the next person to run the DNC and providing some opposition to the GOP.
 
K

kirblar

Member
Crocodile said:
Hmmm.Thinking about this could be part of why Bernie's message was so unappealing to many minorities (which make up a huge portion of the Democratic primary base and a small part of the Republican primary base).
Click to expand...
White socialist viewpoints paper over racism by claiming its really an economic issue.

They just scapegoat upper classes instead of lowest
 
D

Deleted member 231381

Unconfirmed Member
Crocodile said:
A) Do we have someone to replace her? I've heard names thrown out but nobody has said, "yes I'll take the job right now"! If we do then go ahead. Or do you want to replace and interim chair with another interim chair while we wait for a real chair?
Click to expand...

Quite a few people have already made noises - O'Malley and Ellison off the top of my head. More people will come forward if she's made to resign. Obama can chose accordingly (I know technically its elected but the president's suggestion almost always goes).
 
D

Dierce

Member
Grexeno said:
Republicans will come out in force due to all the violence to vote for "law and order", Democrats will stay home because they don't know what the fuck a midterm is.
Click to expand...

We had a Democratic wave in 2006, it can happen again with the right leadership. We just have to make anti prejudice the central tenant.
 
J

jtb

Banned
@GovHowardDean
The dems need organization and focus on the young. Need a fifty State strategy and tech rehab. I am in for chairman again.

posted yet?
 
D

Deleted member 231381

Unconfirmed Member
mo60 said:
The democrats need to line up someone good to take the position of DNC chair. It may take a bit of time to find someone that is good to take that position. Donna should get involved a bit in the process of reforming the party including finding the next person to run the DNC and providing some opposition to the GOP.
Click to expand...

Donna shouldn't be involved with anything at this point. Asking Donna to pick the next DNC chair is just entrenching the current clique that got everything wrong. There are many people who would be interested in this role. If they have the talent and capacity to do it, it will already be clear from their careers. This is not something that needs an enormous amount of mulling over. If absolutely necessary, have her announce her resignation, but she'll stay on for two weeks or whatever to give everyone a chance to put in their CVs and have Obama and state party chairs look over them.

EDIT: Between Dean and Ellison, there's two fantastic choices right there. There is no need to prolong Donna's failures any longer.
 
D

dramatis

Member
Dierce said:
We had a Democratic wave in 2006, it can happen again with the right leadership. We just have to make anti prejudice the central tenant.
Click to expand...
Anti-prejudice was the central tenet of Hillary's campaign. It failed, so a bunch of economic progressives want to chase the white rural vote that went for Trump.
 
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