whyamihere
Banned
Dude.
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PoliGAF 2016 |OT16| Unpresidented
- Thread starter ItWasMeantToBe19
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Dude.
VendettaRed07
Member
It isn't required to win but it's probably required to actually do a good job.
Hopefully he runs for Governor and wins in the future. A lot of Obama's problems are down to real lack of experience. I'd like us to have more viable options for Governor's to run down the road. The Senate sucks.
Damn. Even Fox News watchers think Trump's presidency will be the worst.
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/fox-news-poll-trump-presidency-one-of-the-worst
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/fox-news-poll-trump-presidency-one-of-the-worst
VendettaRed07
Member
I believe there are a surprising amount of people who voted for him who are not happy he won, are incredibly nervous about him being in power or even flat out hate his guts
We just nominated like the one person who they were programmed to believe was worse and had zero ability to sway voters from the other side
WaffleTaco
Wants to outlaw technological innovation.
What were Obama's problems due to lack of experience?
Reminder: Trump won with a plurality of primary voters and a minority of GE voters.
Less than 100k votes in 3 states.
But please, let's continue to talk about how Clinton was the worse candidate in modern history.
Good Job Bob
Member
That poll's sample isn't only Fox viewers.
VendettaRed07
Member
Handling congress when he had both Houses. It isn't unreasonable to think someone with more political experience would have been able to shake down congress and get more votes in line. Trusting and surrounding himself with incompetent people like DWS running the party into the ground at the state level. Letting Republicans roll right over him and never really adapting or responding to their behavior. Making the wrong assumption that grandstanding and verbally scolding them would get his political opposition to do the right thing instead of getting down and dirty and playing politics
I'm not saying a more experienced President would have made everything go silky smooth but I think a bit more could have been achieved and Obama's lack of political experience I think still shows.
VendettaRed07
Member
I hate to say it but losing to Trump by really any margin at all sort of implies that. At least in terms of being able to draw votes from people of the other party especially considering the existential threat Trump is, there should have been more ability for her to make appeals similar to the 64 election. But she was involved in the "party war" and had to many battle scars to be able to do that.
Manmademan
Member
3 states that went to obama in 2012 by 449,000 votes (michigan), 213,000 votes (wisconsin), and 309,000 votes (pennsylvania).
Michigan and Pennsylvania hadn't gone to a republican president since 1988. Wisconsin since 1984.
Clinton failed miserably as a presidential candidate every way one could possibly fail as a presidential candidate.
Worse than gore, worse than kerry, up there with dukakis but at least Dukakis was running against someone competent. and don't give me the "but the popular vote!" argument- the popular vote was run up in states with high hispanic populations (TX, FL, CA) because those people were scared to fucking death that President Trump would destroy their way of life, erect a wall, and start a witch hunt for hispanics to run illegals out of the country. They weren't voting FOR clinton because of any masterful campaigning she did.
excelsiorlef
Member
Whatever we do let's just keep pretending that the popularity of overt White Supremacy isn't an attractive selling point.
Nope it's all Clinton... she's the worst ever.
Russia, Media, FBI no factor. Clinton is just the worst ever...
Man I acknowledge she made mistakes can you acknowledge that doesn't make her the worst ever?
Anything to keep white folk, who are the only demographic to break Trump, being held responsible for their role I guess.
Nope it's all Clinton... she's the worst ever.
Russia, Media, FBI no factor. Clinton is just the worst ever...
Man I acknowledge she made mistakes can you acknowledge that doesn't make her the worst ever?
Anything to keep white folk, who are the only demographic to break Trump, being held responsible for their role I guess.
Aaron Strife
Banned
Real talk, if there is a credible primary challenger to Trump in 2020 I will probably vote for them in lieu of participating in the Democratic primary unless someone really abhorrent (Gabbard) catches fire for whatever reason and I'm compelled to vote against them.
I (and many others) treated 2016 very much like a game because I didn't think Trump had a chance, and it backfired immensely.
Remember when we were mad at Virginia Democrats for crossing over to vote for Rubio against Trump? They fucking knew.
If I were a one issue voter my one issue would be "who isn't going to get us nuked." We can debate the merits of Kasich vs. Booker (as an example) when the general election rolls around, I just want Trump out of the picture.
I (and many others) treated 2016 very much like a game because I didn't think Trump had a chance, and it backfired immensely.
Remember when we were mad at Virginia Democrats for crossing over to vote for Rubio against Trump? They fucking knew.
If I were a one issue voter my one issue would be "who isn't going to get us nuked." We can debate the merits of Kasich vs. Booker (as an example) when the general election rolls around, I just want Trump out of the picture.
I remember a guy hyping up the Hispanic wave in Florida like there was no tomorrow before the election.
What happened to that Hispanic wave? It got wiped out by a racist wave, I suppose.
It happened. Hispanic vote in Florida was way up. White vote was just also way up.
Aaron Strife
Banned
Yup. Clinton got almost 300,000 more votes than Obama did in 2012.
Pity then that Trump got over 400,000 more than Romney.
There's also just a larger overall electorate than there was 2012.
Manmademan
Member
Let's be real here. Russia's involvement was limited to hacking and leaking information related to hillary's email scandal that would have and should have been put to bed a long time ago by any competent candidate. the fact that she couldn't shake that scandal OR the label of being competely untrustworthy is her own fault.
The FBI issue? same thing. all goes back to clinton's own hubris and inability to improve her negatives biting her in the ass.
ON TOP OF clinton being completely unable to connect with voters and deal with her email scandal, she ran the most asinine campaign possible- intentionally camping out in blue state strongholds to run up the score and intentionally ignoring any area that wasn't completely favorable to her- this was against the explicit advice of B.Clinton and Ed Rendell in the case of pennsylvania.
Hell, that's exactly what her strategy was in the 2008 primaries- camp out in democratic strongholds and run up the score on super tuesday- and she got dismantled when Obama campaigned hard in caucus states and ended her campaign that way. She learned nothing from that.
Clinton is excellent on policy and policy details, but has no desire or ability to actually get on the road and campaign as Obama did, or B.Clinton did everywhere they possibly could. But sleeping in her own bed was more important than busting your ass to get elected, because she assumed (wrongly) that she had the election in the bag. She thought didn't NEED to campaign in red counties or reach out to the white working class. And I'm sorry, but white working class democrats are still democrats, and deserve to have their needs addressed.
No one in modern presidential history has run a campaign that badly, TWICE, the exact same way. Kerry might have lost and Gore might have lost, but either of those two would have won in 2016.
yup. and I admitted I made a bad call. Hispanic turnout was astronomical, but the panhandle came out in force and wiped it out- possibly BECAUSE the huge turnout from hispanics was getting so much press. Even WITH that, Clinton should have been able to win easily without florida- but lost democratic strongholds nationwide like dominoes due to piss poor strategy. I along with many other people were led to believe she was using Obama's playbook from 08 and 12, with plenty of boots on the ground and outreach. She was absolutely not doing that.
excelsiorlef
Member
A simple no would have sufficed.
You literally downplayed every other element to just blame Clinton for everything.
Retromelon
Member
lel
Yep to all of this. Even imagine if she went up against a more reasonable and agreeable GOP candidate like Kasich. If she barely lost to Trump, I'm willing to bet she would've been annihilated by Kasich. We of course don't know if that would've happened, but the fact that she lost to fucking TRUMP should be a HUGE red flag for Democrats.
VendettaRed07
Member
She's not the "worst ever". I think she would have been a good President had she actually gotten in there obviously. Which is why I voted for her.
The point was that being in the spotlight for as long as she was, having more negative ad money spent against her over the last 30 years really hurt. It isn't all her fault. But it was the way it was and she had very little ability to move beyond her past and started out with half the country hating her right out of the gate. Of course the idiots who have platooned our countries future and the entire western world because they crave the tears of SJWs more than Voldermort craves unicorn blood are at fault and fully responsible but there isn't as much as we can do about forcing them to vote for someone they hate for whatever reason to preserve sanity and stop a psycho as much as there is our ability to chose someone who would have had more of an ability to garner cross over appeal in way like Obama did in 08 winning solid red states like Indiana.
lel
Lol. White skin color is recessive. A felon has no room to talk about science.
Kasich isn't going to get the insane rural turnout.
excelsiorlef
Member
And policy gets to be talked about. Focused on.
And that overt racism/white supremacy isn't offered.
VendettaRed07
Member
Trump also did much better than Romney did with the Hispanic vote in Florida right?
I guess the best hope in that scenario is that it had more to do with Rubio's raised national profile aiding Trump than anything else.
Not as much as Trump, no, but he did win Ohio (which is his home state of course, but let's go into this). A big part of the reason why he won Ohio was rural support. That's already a benefit to him for other states. Not only that, but he's considered much more moderate and would pull more waverers and would most likely pull people who hated both candidates but voted Hillary so Trump wouldn't get elected. With the penchant of the GOP coming home and how hated Clinton was by people in the middle, yeah I think it is very likely Kasich would've dominated her.
You're naive if you think policy would be the focus. Hillary's perceived character problems would still be a huge issue. Emails don't go away just because orange turd isn't the GOP chosen one. All of the negative stigma won't go away. And matching up that Hillary Clinton against perceived good guy, common man, sensible and moderate Kasich? She's toast.
Bonen no Max'd
Banned
Kasich also wouldn't have lost the college educated whites that Clinton picked up.
AntraxSuicide
Banned
All of these are arguments against BLM protests, which you tried to cover up by including them in your list of "Approved Moderate Protests" but you could only give them "they were looking for attention." This is basically the white moderate MLK quote.
Trump still won college educated whites, but in a lot of states college educated women supported hilary.
Yes, they were looking for attention for something undercovered by the media. That allows you to get support from larger institutions. Ferguson has gotten better as a result of the exposure- they were able to do voter registration and ran a candidate (winning!) in order to try and change things. Attention is a worthwhile goal, and there was a clear goal in mind with what they wanted to do with it. (improve things- any things)
This does not apply to something like OWS. OWS was protesting Wall Street immediately after the biggest financial crisis in decades. This is like trying to draw attention to a car crash on the side of the road by pointing a neon sign at it. It's a car crash - people are going to look. They made a lot of noise and achieved nothing, because they weren't trying to achieve anything in the first place.
Attention for attention's sake is not a noble goal. This is why Susan G. Komen is reviled by many.
To try and equate these two types of things is gross and ridiculous. And especially randomly bringing BLM into it simply to invoke MLK for the sake of invoking MLK.
Bonen no Max'd
Banned
Like with working class rural whites, this is where margins do matter. Trump still won college whites but did much poorer with them than typical past Republicans, in the same way Hillary losing some rural counties is expected but the margins she lost them by are not. Kasich would have had much better margins with that group than Trump did which would've helped make up with probably not getting the insane Florida panhandle like turnout.
I wouldn't be surprised if someone like evan mcmullin decided to challenge trump in 2020 time but instead in the primaries unlike McMullin
Aaron Strife
Banned
Sure but that doesn't explain 700k extra people on its own.
Racist white voters in the panhandle were just waiting for a candidate who spoke their language.
VanMardigan
has calmed down a bit.
lel
This went over my head, I'm sure it went over dinesh's head as well.
AntraxSuicide
Banned
Nah, I brought it up because I think it describes you well. Protests are cool as long as you aren't late to work. Because God forbid bad traffic happens.
And you misunderstand the Dakota pipeline protests. They had no leverage. Just like you gleefully mentioned above, protesters can be removed. Their obstruction was that they drew negative press for those involved.
But they also probably held up some postal workers, so fuck them.
Protestors can be removed in a situation like this, but at severe, severe cost to those doing it. The bad PR from physical injury and such is why you have people with guns allowed to run wild over Government property for a month, because after the incidents in the '90s, officials are scared shitless of the backlash.
This is the leverage they had. It's not visible, but it was very much there. Why do you think they never made an actual sustained attempt to forcibly get them out?
Bonen no Max'd
Banned
...did you miss the part where they where spraying freezing water and the woman got her arm blown off?
OfficerRaichu15
Member
Gretchen carlson got pissed off on tv for getting wrecked by a Harvard law prof lol.
Also Poli gaf I got a dilemma.
So some friends of mine are very pro trump. They told me that the democrats are a bunch of losers for waiting until now for the elector thing and said that this qould have happen with Democrats not caring about popular vote.
What should I do?
Also Poli gaf I got a dilemma.
So some friends of mine are very pro trump. They told me that the democrats are a bunch of losers for waiting until now for the elector thing and said that this qould have happen with Democrats not caring about popular vote.
What should I do?
No, I didn't. They got massive negative PR backlash from that and backed off it once it started circulating. (if I'm recalling the sequence of events correctly.) And that's without trying to physically remove them by going in with police, rather than being gigantic dicks trying to get them to move. If you think the stuff getting circulated was bad from that - imagine it if you see them fighting protestors hand to hand.
build a wall
AntraxSuicide
Banned
1) There were a lot of attempts to run them off.
2) Now explain how none of these things you've said here could apply to the protest suggestions you dismissed earlier.
OfficerRaichu15
Member
It really upsets me about it especially when we havent been this heated until this election.
Bad Idea: Trying to shut down the US congress to draw attentiong to Trump/GOP being a bunch of poopyheads
Good Idea: Protesting in NC's congress right this second to attempt to delay/stop/draw attention to their coup.
The former achieves nothing. The former can potentially achieve something.
AntraxSuicide
Banned
I see no real difference between these.
Edit: Neither of these would do anything. Or are you backtracking on whether signs and shit can affect legislation?
Then you will never understand my point of view.
But if it helps: people already think Trump/GOP are a bunch of poopyheads. They really don't need a reminder.
Bonen no Max'd
Banned
I'm not sure what you're trying to say here.
Their leverage was that getting their arms blown off looks bad? And that's why it's okay for them to protest?
AntraxSuicide
Banned
Then how does this not apply to your bad NC example? Your point of view makes no sense.
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