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PoliGAF 2016 |OT16| Unpresidented

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Hardly. This all ends with the death of Capitalism.

Oh here we go with wasting time fighting capitalism.

Because I'm sure a majority of Americans are gung ho about signing onto a platform of "fuck capitalism".

You go ahead and waste time pushing Jeremy Corbyn type bullshit, because that sure has worked out for the left in the UK, right?
 

Plinko

Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage

Wilsongt

Member
Donald J. Trump ‏@realDonaldTrump 1h1 hour ago

I thought and felt I would win big, easily over the fabled 270 (306). When they cancelled fireworks, they knew, and so did I.
6,779 replies 4,470 retweets 19,263 likes
Donald J. Trump ‏@realDonaldTrump 1h1 hour ago

Various media outlets and pundits say that I thought I was going to lose the election. Wrong, it all came together in the last week and.....
3,968 replies 3,333 retweets 15,474 likes
Donald J. Trump ‏@realDonaldTrump 2h2 hours ago

So... What is going to go on longer: Trump patting himself on the back for winning or PoliGAF reinventing the primary and people saying Bernie was robbed over and over again?>
 

Odrion

Banned
http://www.governing.com/blogs/politics/gov-democrat-howard-deans-fifty-state-strategy.html

Before we crunch the numbers, we should note that the patterns below can't be linked exclusively to Dean's 50-state project. After all, the Democrats experienced two of their strongest election cycles during that time. They benefited from a strong congressional tailwind in 2006 and a winning presidential candidacy in 2008. Meanwhile, the numbers began to turn negative during the midterm election of 2010, a Republican rout.

That said, the patterns are suggestive. In the 20 states we looked at -- those that have voted solidly Republican in recent presidential races -- Democratic candidates chalked up modest successes, despite the difficult political terrain. Then, after the project stopped, Democratic success rates cratered.

The 20 states we looked at are Alabama, Alaska, Arkansas, Georgia, Idaho, Kansas, Kentucky, Louisiana, Mississippi, Montana, Nebraska, North Dakota, Oklahoma, South Carolina, South Dakota, Tennessee, Texas, Utah, West Virginia and Wyoming. We excluded any state that has voted Democratic in recent presidential contests or was considered potentially competitive for the Democrats, even if the state ultimately sided with the GOP (such as Arizona and Missouri).

Here's how the Democrats fared in the reddest of red states between January 2005 and January 2009, the period when the 50-state project was in operation:
State House seats: Net gain of 39 seats, a 2 percent increase of all seats in the states analyzed
State Senate seats: Net loss of two seats
Governorships: Net loss of one
Attorney generalships: Net gain of one (elected seats only)
U.S. House seats: Net gain of three seats
U.S. Senate seats: Net gain of one seat
Presidential performance: In 15 of the 20 states, the Democratic nominee saw an increase in vote share between 2004 and 2008. In three other states, the vote share remained constant. It dropped in only two states.

"Where we really made a big difference was in states like Nebraska, where Obama won an electoral vote in 2008," Dean said. "He had a real party to work with."

Overall, Democrats either improved their results in the reddest states between 2005 and 2009 or, at worst, suffered only minor setbacks, which, given the obstacles the party faced in these solidly Republican states, was almost a victory in its own right.

Now let's compare this record to the one between January 2009 and January 2013.

State House seats: Net loss of 249 seats, a decrease of 13 percent of the existing seats in those states
State Senate seats: Net loss of 84 seats, a decrease of 12 percent
Governorships: A decrease by half, from eight governors to four
Attorney generalships: A drop by two-thirds in elected AGs, from nine to three
U.S. House seats: A 40 percent drop, from 44 seats to 26
U.S. Senate seats: A drop from 11 seats to 8. (It could drop further by 2014: Of those eight remaining seats, three senators are retiring and another three face tough reelection contests.)
Presidential performance: Only two of the 20 states (Alaska and Mississippi) saw higher support for Obama in 2012 than in 2008. In most of the 20 solidly red states, Obama's 2012 vote fell back roughly to John Kerry's level from 2004.
Altogether, these post-2009 declines are, to put it bluntly, pretty catastrophic. In these 20 solidly red states, the Democrats controlled 13 legislative chambers in 2005, a number that fell to just three in 2013. Of the 40 chambers in these states, only two experienced a net gain of Democratic seats between 2005 and 2013; in the other 38, the Democrats lost ground.

And because state legislative seats and lower statewide offices provide the "bench" for future runs for governor and Congress, these developments could prompt a self-perpetuating death spiral for the party in these states.
 
Somebody posted the link to the research (from a Twitter link--Pew Research, maybe?) in here weeks ago. We had a lengthy discussion about it. I'm not just pulling these numbers out of thin air.

Plus, I am not AT ALL saying the economy was the main issue. No implication was made there at all on my part. I posted a while back that I believed there were like 7 or 8 issues all at play here, but racism/sexism/Comey were top of the list.
Fair.

I looked for this data for a few minutes before giving up. The entire issue is moot, Plinko. It doesn't matter what percentage her ads focused on the economy because 1) it was enough that voters actually concerned about this issue cast their ballot for her by a wide margin and 2) it was not the primary issue for the rust belt to begin with. I recognize you aren't disagreeing with that last point, but many Bernie faithful are. There is a desperate rush to paint a very distorted picture of the failures of Democrats by this crowd and I am honestly just exhausted by it.
 

Odrion

Banned
Is Dean going to be involved at some level again? I mean, the whole thing collapsed after he left, he says he wants to be involved, but I haven't heard a peep from democrats about him.

he pulled out from the chair race and that's kinda it for now
 

royalan

Member
Is Dean going to be involved at some level again? I mean, the whole thing collapsed after he left, he says he wants to be involved, but I haven't heard a peep from democrats about him.

It's not even so much the lack of a 50 state strategy. From the reading the article, the problem seems to be money. Running a 50 state strategy with paid staffers in each state promoting candidates costs money. There's just no way around that.

In hindsight, that ban Obama imposed on the DNC accepting donations from federal lobbyists might have been a mistake.

Going forward, the other thing that Democratic party is going to have to wrestle with is balancing the dislike of money in politics with the need for money for politics. That self-imposed restriction on donor money cost our party dearly. And there's no evidence that the type of money that was raised from small donors by Bernie Sanders can be raised for local races. Until the system gets changed wholesale, we need big donors.

Good luck convincing the far left of that.
 
Trump dominating in Ohio even as he and Ohio's beloved governor had a feud is one of those things that suggest very few politicians actually can change people's opinions on issues they care about.

Trump is the only Republican who can make his base hate other Republicans and that's because the Deplorables view his word as God. Kasich couldn't change the mind of maybe even one Ohio Republican about Trump.
 

mo60

Member
Trump dominating in Ohio even as he and Ohio's beloved governor had a feud is one of those things that suggest very few politicians actually can change people's opinions on issues they care about.

Trump is the only Republican who can make his base hate other Republicans and that's because the Deplorables view his word as God. Kasich couldn't change the mind of maybe even one Ohio Republican about Trump.

The funny thing is that hilary won Hamilton county by more then obama won that county by in 2008 and 2012. Kasich probably did indirectly help her in a way in some ohio counties.
 
Comey's letter likely gave them the excuse. They wanted to come back, but had been properly shamed into not doing so until then. It would account for the movement everyone seems to have seen after the letter and before the election.

Pretty much. They won't have such an excuse when it's a New Blood democrat running against Trump.
 
Pretty much. They won't have such an excuse when it's a New Blood democrat running against Trump.

Sure they will - "I was fooled by the liberal media into thinking Trump would be a disaster, but look at all we accomplished..."

They won't get back say, David Frum, but the National Review has already shifted into "why are Democrats whining so much" mode.
 
Sure they will - "I was fooled by the liberal media into thinking Trump would be a disaster, but look at all we accomplished..."

They won't get back say, David Frum, but the National Review has already shifted into "why are Democrats whining so much" mode.

A few problems with that:

1) Trump is about to enter office with approval ratings below 50%. Unless he gets his own 9/11 moment, those numbers will only go down.

2) There are many things Trump and the GOP want to do that WOULD result in very immediate disaster, such as repealing the ACA

3) Most of the GOP still doesn't like Putin and won't be happy if Trump keeps appeasing him

Like, I know of numerous conservatives who would EASILY vote for Trump's opponent in 2020 so long as that opponent isn't Bernie Sanders or Elizabeth Warren.
 

dramatis

Member
The origin of your TV set is a simple lesson in the dangers of ignoring globalization.
By the late 1950s, the US was home to an enormous new industry, and its manufacturers were understandably lured by the domestic market. As one executive at now-defunct Zenith put it, just a small increase in market share in Los Angeles might represent as much revenue as an entire country outside the US. So the focus stayed close to home.

But others saw the opportunities abroad. It was Japanese firms that started taking US technology overseas through licenses from RCA. Pretty soon, they were exporting what they learned back to the US in the shape of TV parts—and later whole TVs.

They were committed competitors. They tested meticulously to avoid quality problems. They were eager adopters of automation—while their American competitors, intent on saving jobs, were reluctant to replace workers with machines, according to Martin Kenney, a professor at the University of California, Davis, who has studied the sector. Japanese products started to get both better and cheaper than what the US produced.
The US government at the time responded to the losses as Trump is proposing to do some 50 years later, with trade barriers. But the efforts ended up strengthening US competitors. In 1977, the US started restricting imports of Japanese TVs and components. That encouraged Japanese companies to move some production to the US, as intended, but it also gave a boost to Taiwanese and Korean producers by moving their biggest competitor, Japan, out of the way. When the US blocked imports from those countries as well, production moved to Southeast Asia.

In another example of protectionist policies backfiring, the US imposed high duties on television tubes, the kind of sophisticated, high-value component it wanted to keep within the country. At the same time, it set lower tariffs for assembled products than on individual components for the benefit of US manufacturers that were assembling TVs abroad. The result: US companies imported tubes from Asia to their Mexico plants, loaded them into TVs, and exported the nearly ready units to the US. Meanwhile, the American tube makers saw orders collapse.
The color-tube TV industry was the US’s to lose, but the US never really owned the flat-screen TV industry. The inventions and discoveries that enabled it originally came from the US. But in those early days, the ultimate application for them, flat-screen TVs, was deemed to be too far off to be worth investing in by US companies, according to Stefanie Lenway, who co-authored a 2003 book examining the demise of the US’s TV industry.

The Japanese, however, had less grandiose aspirations. They started using the new flat screen technology in wristwatches and calculators. By doing so, they got a jumpstart on a technology that eventually transformed the whole TV industry. The change wasn’t solely in the way the final product looked and worked, but also in how it was conceived.
I suppose free trade and globalization is evil.
 

Plinko

Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
Billy House
‏@HouseInSession

Proposed Goodlatte amendment to rules package would place the independent Office of Congressional Ethics under oversight of Ethics Committee

This right here? This is insane. Shady, underhanded, dishonest garbage.
 
I actually appreciate how no possible information or events can change your mindset

He's the epitome of what I call the "so-called-progressive". Doesn't care about actual progress, but sure loves to use this election as an excuse to hate on liberals and democrats.

He probably has never even worked for a Political campaign.
 
It's not even so much the lack of a 50 state strategy. From the reading the article, the problem seems to be money. Running a 50 state strategy with paid staffers in each state promoting candidates costs money. There's just no way around that.

In hindsight, that ban Obama imposed on the DNC accepting donations from federal lobbyists might have been a mistake.

Going forward, the other thing that Democratic party is going to have to wrestle with is balancing the dislike of money in politics with the need for money for politics. That self-imposed restriction on donor money cost our party dearly. And there's no evidence that the type of money that was raised from small donors by Bernie Sanders can be raised for local races. Until the system gets changed wholesale, we need big donors.

Good luck convincing the far left of that.
Yep. Every office tied to the DNC needs money. Letting staff go unpaid is just baffling.

The article Odrion posted makes a great point. If Dems are going to have any chance of regaining House/Senate seats, they need to have some presence in rural counties. School board, Mayor, whatever.
 

Grief.exe

Member
It's not even so much the lack of a 50 state strategy. From the reading the article, the problem seems to be money. Running a 50 state strategy with paid staffers in each state promoting candidates costs money. There's just no way around that.

In hindsight, that ban Obama imposed on the DNC accepting donations from federal lobbyists might have been a mistake.

Going forward, the other thing that Democratic party is going to have to wrestle with is balancing the dislike of money in politics with the need for money for politics. That self-imposed restriction on donor money cost our party dearly. And there's no evidence that the type of money that was raised from small donors by Bernie Sanders can be raised for local races. Until the system gets changed wholesale, we need big donors.

Good luck convincing the far left of that.

Drain
The
Swamp
 
I will share why I continuously and willingly engage in the Hillary vs. Bernie conversation, both online and in real life, because there is a reason.

...

I just wanted to say thanks for posting this. I've also continued to engage in the Hillary vs. Bernie conversation after the election, for virtually the same reasons, but I hadn't thought through those reasons or articulated them as eloquently as you just did, so I was starting to doubt myself. After many of my friends started bemoaning the ills of "identity politics" after the election (whether they were Jacobin Magazine-reading socialists or Silicon Valley centrists), I was starting to wonder whether I was just being contrarian or defensive. Thanks for reminding me that our voices in this conversation have an important purpose.
 
Why is that?

He's the most powerful Democrat in New York State and arguably, the most powerful Democrat in the country. He consistently wins some of the highest voting margins of any Senator. Nobody would dare run against him in New York. They'd get no support. Have no money. No endorsements. They'd be running entirely alone against the most powerful politician in the country in the safest senate seat in the country. And they'd lose, badly. And have no further career as a politician.

He's also insanely popular in New York. And that's not really going to change. He's done too much for the state that he can easily point to.

How do you run against this?
Schumer prides himself on visiting every one of New York's 62 counties each year and has successfully done so in each of the 16 years he has served in the United States Senate, the only New York senator to have done so.

He has a reputation for focusing on local issues that are important to average New Yorkers not normally associated with United States Senators, ranging from tourism, to local taxes, to job creation. When it was revealed that Adidas planned to end its contract for the manufacture of NBA jerseys with American Classic Outfitters, an upstate New York apparel company, and outsource production overseas, Schumer blasted the company, citing the risk to 100 workers at the plant. When it was revealed that Canon Inc. was considering relocating from its corporate headquarters in Long Island because of a dispute over road infrastructure funding, Schumer stepped in to advocate New York state redirect federal stimulus dollars to make the road improvements and keep the company and its jobs on Long Island. Along with his House and Senate colleagues, Schumer successfully worked to kill a Bush-era privatization plan for custodial and utility workers at the United States Military Academy at West Point. The plan would have called for turning over custodial and utility work to a Georgia company
 
Why is that?

Because he's popular in his district.

Why do think DWS kicked the shit out of Canova despite the great Bernie Sanders and his fund raising machine getting behind Canova to take down the "dispicable" DWS.

That and no one of worth is going to willingly enter that race. Which actually once again mirrors what happened with DWS. She's so well liked in her district that the only person willing to run against her was some fucking moron.
 

sc0la

Unconfirmed Member
Just a reminder, the biggest campaign of overt identity politics in over half a century took place in 2016
and it wasn't run by Hillary Clinton.

It's almost as if people who bemone "identity politics" really just wanted us to engage in a diet version of different flavor, funny that.
 

royalan

Member
I wonder if Chuck is playing Donny..... Kissing his ass to get on his good side in hopes he won't completely destroy this country.

This would be incredibly stupid and a waste of time.

Trump can like Chuck all he wants, but it'll be Paul Ryan and Mitch McConnell who have the most access and influence over him. They'll hold the keys to whether or not he's impeached.

Chuck, please don't be the latest Dumbass Dem walking to the elevator of Trump Tower with a stupid "he's going to listen to ME just you watch. I'm different!" grin on your face, only to be made a complete fucking clown by the time you make it back down.
 

sc0la

Unconfirmed Member
This would be incredibly stupid and a waste of time.

Trump can like Chuck all he wants, but it'll be Paul Ryan and Mitch McConnell who have the most access and influence over him. They'll hold the keys to whether or not he's impeached.

Chuck, please don't be the latest Dumbass Dem walking to the elevator of Trump Tower with a stupid "he's going to listen to ME just you watch. I'm different!" grin on your face, only to be made a complete fucking clown by the time you make it back down.
The best part is when they walk out like "it went great we had a wide ranging and fruitful discussion, he was very open and receptive!"

*4 days later Trump announces official policy is the opposite of thing he discussed.*

What are the demographics of Schumer's district?

The demographics of the district of
the state o
f New York? (He's a senator)
 

Oblivion

Fetishing muscular manly men in skintight hosery
Trump and the Republicans victory in the senate has broken me guys. Prior to the election, I would follow political news on a daily basis, but now it's more like once or twice a week. With the likes of Schumer and Manchin being fairly chummy with Trump, the courts getting packed with right-wing hacks and our chances of turning anything around in 2018 looking worse and worse as each day progresses, there seems like very little point in reading up on day to day political news.

God forbid, I may have to go back to the *shudder* gaming section!

If Schumer wants to be all chummy with Trump, he should be primaried. Real talk.

He just got re-elected. A primary threat six years down the line ain't gonna do shit (not that it would have done shit in the first place).
 
One question that we may not have talked enough about is if Kim Jong-un can bait Trump into invading NK and kicking off a U.S.-China war (obviously the Korean War and Vietnam War have seen U.S. and China come into conflict prior).

North Korea just stated that it is in the final stages of developing a nuclear weapon capable of reaching parts of the U.S. It won't happen!

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/816057920223846400

Jong-un's trolling didn't work on Obama, but Trump can be baited very easily.
 

mo60

Member
Who would challenge a guy that crushed his opponent by 43 points in the recent senate election in New York. No one is going to try to primary chuck schumer anytime soon.

I joked about trump trying to become best buds with Kim Jong Un a few days ago and I wouldn't be surprised if he tried to become Kim Jong Un's buddy.
 
Schumer's already talked openly about challenging Trump cabinet nominees

He's not going to roll over for Trump. His goal is probably more to cause divisions between Trump & his party, which I think is a very good strategy for a minority party
 
@realDonaldTrump
China has been taking out massive amounts of money & wealth from the U.S. in totally one-sided trade, but won't help with North Korea. Nice!

What does this even mean? Is the "Nice!" sarcastic?
 
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