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[TumblingHippo]

"Maybe we spent too much time focusing on equality..." is not a narrative I'm comfortable with liberals starting to consider.

Racists feel bad if you call them racist, so don't call them racist but instead show them other reasons why your party is cool and should be joined? No one's ever going to learn from that chart showing how low Dem turnout was, and instead thinking about things and go "Oh yeah gays and trans folk are too icky to a rural voter so let's pretend they don't exist for votes!"*

*Not actually saying anyone is actually saying this, but the messaging seems to be quickly approaching this.

 

[Isaac Otherworld]

Whenever she'd try to coin something, it would come across as cringey.

"Trumped up trickle down economics" was awful. It didn't mean anything. It was a pun on Trump's name tying him to trickle down economics that wasn't really the focus of the election. It fell completely flat.

The slogan "Love Trumps Hate" was absolutely abyssal on every level.

Why would you advertise your opponent's name in your slogan?!

"I'm with Her" was almost as bad because Trump was able to do the obvious rebuttal "I"m with you!"

 

[Totakeke]

Stronger Together lost by a little over 100k votes distributed across three states while winning the popular vote.

I think Yes We Can pretty decisively wins last night.

That's... an oversimplified comparison to say the least.

 

[Bonen no Max'd]

That's... an oversimplified comparison to say the least.

Sure, but Yes We Can is clear, strong messaging that really galvanizes the electorate. Discounting enthusiasm isn't something we should do from now on.

I'm aware that there's a million contributing factors to why we lost but I think it's important to remember that this election was lost by the slimmest of margins.

 

[RustyNails]

I honestly have no idea how Trump will last for 4 years with his terrible diet, lack of sleep, and the stress & weight of the presidency. He's already 70 for crying out loud...

Also now that we're talking about Garland again, I feel really bad for him. When he gave his speech accepting Obama's nomination, he seemed really emotional and on the verge of tears and talked a lot about how much getting a SCOTUS seat meant to him. I know it pales in comparison to the large brunt of suffering that Trump will potentially cause, but it's one of those sad stories that sticks out for me at the moment.

This is assuming the weight of America and the world's problems will weigh on him. That would require empathy. He will shrug it off and let Pence and others deal with it. He'll be more concerned about Trump golf courses, hotels and resorts.

 

[BreezyLimbo]

"Maybe we spent too much time focusing on equality..." is not a narrative I'm comfortable with liberals starting to consider.

Racists feel bad if you call them racist, so don't call them racist but instead show them other reasons why your party is cool and should be joined? No one's ever going to learn from that chart showing how low Dem turnout was, and instead thinking about things and go "Oh yeah gays and trans folk are too icky to a rural voter so let's pretend they don't exist for votes!"*

*Not actually saying anyone is actually saying this, but the messaging seems to be quickly approaching this.

Democrats need dog whistles against racists

 

[shadowsdarknes]

I really gotta hand it to Van Jones. The dude goes out of his way to find common ground with those with different views.

 

[Totakeke]

Sure, but Yes We Can is clear, strong messaging that really galvanizes the electorate. Discounting enthusiasm isn't something we should do from now on.

I'm aware that there's a million contributing factors to why we lost but I think it's important to remember that this election was lost by the slimmest of margins.

It shouldn't be won by slim margins. Making that goal as a target is a mistake. The goal should be a crushing victory.

 

[teiresias]

McConnell finally admits ending ‘war on coal’ might not bring back jobs


I really want to crow about Hillary's retraining policy, but... What's the point? These people will continued to be fucked, and that doesn't help us now. Push for their votes at the mid-terms and in 2020.

How do you push for their votes? They obviously don't want to hear reality. They want to be told they don't need to train for a new job and don't need anything beyond a high school education in this modern world.

 

[Plinko]

So democrats are already hinting they'll sparingly use the filibuster? Come on.

 

[Valhelm]

Whenever she'd try to coin something, it would come across as cringey.

"Trumped up trickle down economics" was awful. It didn't mean anything. It was a pun on Trump's name tying him to trickle down economics that wasn't really the focus of the election. It fell completely flat.

I think that was a pretty good way to characterize the problem with his policy. She might have been more successful if she explained why Trump's tax cuts and protectionism wouldn't actually improve the lives of everyday Americans.

Hillary's campaign was really more negative than Trump's, because she focused so much on opposing him rather than promoting her own views. She was in a tough position, because Trump's policy is so ambiguous, but her decision to attack his personality and behavior instead of political ambitions was a huge miscalculation. The biggest failure was on trade and employment. Trump used lies to justify his impossible solutions, but Hillary didn't really respond to the lies or his proposals. Even worse, she spent far too little time explaining why her positions were better.

The moralistic and emotional nature of Hillary's campaign wasn't received very well by the voters who legitimately believe Trump will help them.

 

[Doc Holliday]

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/11/donald-trump-senate-democrats-231256

Democrats look to exploit Trump divisions with GOP Congress
Senate Democrats hint they're willing to play ball with the president-elect and use the filibuster sparingly.

I like this strategy and I hate it....I like it because it might things passed that I've been hoping for a long time.

Mainly Infrastructure

But I hate it because the GOP will likely to gain more power in 2 years and trump would get reelected in 4.

 

[Fedelias]

I really gotta hand it to Van Jones. The dude goes out of his way to find common ground with those with different views.

Honestly he goes too out of his way. I don't know if its the CNN paycheck that keeps him on to bash heads with the likes of Lord and McEnany or if hes just THAT empathetic.

 

[ampere]

https://twitter.com/BernieSanders/status/798192678785716224

I come from the white working class, and I am deeply humiliated that the Democratic Party cannot talk to the people where I came from

.

This is exactly the shit from Bernie I was talking about earlier. He specifically means white working class. Fuck off with that, Bernie

 

[balladofwindfishes]

Trump doesn't really have any loyalty to the GOP, so the Democrats trying to work with him, to go against the GOP in congress might work if the Democrats do it right.

https://twitter.com/BernieSanders/status/798192678785716224
.

This is exactly the shit from Bernie I was talking about earlier. He specifically means white working class. Fuck off with that, Bernie

Bernie

You were born in NYC. When you came of age you moved to Vermont and haven't left.

I'm not entirely sure your situation matches someone whose never left their 5k population county.

 

[JP_]

https://twitter.com/BernieSanders/status/798192678785716224
.

This is exactly the shit from Bernie I was talking about earlier. He specifically means white working class. Fuck off with that, Bernie

This is the GAF purity test. Appealing to white working class is off limits, accuse him of dogwhistling etc. You act like it's a zero sum game.

 

[whyamihere]

The slogan "Love Trumps Hate" was absolutely abyssal on every level.

Why would you advertise your opponent's name in your slogan?!

"I'm with Her" was almost as bad because Trump was able to do the obvious rebuttal "I"m with you!"

I'm With Her was bad, but I'm With You also never caught on.

Love Trumps Hate was better, and is now being co-opted in a lot of the Trump protests. But, again, it's not an inclusive message that Democrats like. Same with I'm With Her.

 

[BreezyLimbo]

https://twitter.com/BernieSanders/status/798192678785716224
.

This is exactly the shit from Bernie I was talking about earlier. He specifically means white working class. Fuck off with that, Bernie

Hes not wrong though. The dems didnt spend any time on them, and lo and behold voters from that section voted for trump despite voting for obama previously.

Democrats can and should appeal to both minorities and the WWC. One does not negate the other.

 

[Brawly Likes to Brawl]

This is assuming the weight of America and the world's problems will weigh on him. That would require empathy. He will shrug it off and let Pence and others deal with it. He'll be more concerned about Trump golf courses, hotels and resorts.

He can't shove all the work on Pence and his cabinet. Since he's the one who sits in the Oval Office, there's still an immense amount of obligations he has no choice but to take part in. Even he knows this. He clearly didn't want this job and just got off to shouting MAGA to big crowds. Doesn't matter how much empathy he has, not even the biggest sociopath in the world can shake off being the face of an entire country.

That's the most upsetting thing about this election. America fell for the siren song of someone who knows absolutely nothing and never worked a day in their life.

 

[Valhelm]

https://twitter.com/BernieSanders/status/798192678785716224
.

This is exactly the shit from Bernie I was talking about earlier. He specifically means white working class. Fuck off with that, Bernie

He's not incorrect. The Democrats have a major problem connecting to white working class voters in the North, who have traditionally been a hugely important part in their coalition.

Pursuing neoliberal policies as these communities continue to bleed pushes these workers into the arms of bigots who promise to bring life and livelihood back to the Rust Belt.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

There's that word again "neoliberal"

 

[Zukkoyaki]

How do you push for their votes? They obviously don't want to hear reality. They want to be told they don't need to train for a new job and don't need anything beyond a high school education in this modern world.

Keep it short and simple like Joe Biden does when he talks about this kind of thing. Want to sell WWC on an infrastructure that'll put them back to work?

"Infrastructure folks. We're going back to work and we're rebuilding the country at the same time!"
"Need training? We'll get you training for FREE."
"Roads, bridges, sewers, electric grids, solar panels, wind turbines. We need them and you're getting to provide them. Let's get back to work!"

Not as elegant as MAGA but it sells the point in a fashion that's exciting, realistic and easy to process. Contrary to popular belief, a lot of these voters aren't stupid, they're just low information. If you have a good pitch alongside a quick and easy path to understand it, you have something.

 

[whyamihere]

Also, exploiting the divisions within the GOP is obviously the way to go. Though I'd hope they give Trump as few wins as possible.

I'm already relieved the filibuster will live.

 

[JP_]

Instead of assuming people use "neoliberal" incorrectly, maybe try assuming they're using it in the current economic lexicon: http://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/fandd/2016/06/ostry.htm

That way you can actually discuss it instead of just throwing shade.

 

[Valhelm]

There's that word again "neoliberal"

Do you prefer I say "corporate toadiness"?

 

[balladofwindfishes]

Instead of assuming people use "neoliberal" incorrectly, maybe try assuming they're using it in the current economic lexicon: http://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/fandd/2016/06/ostry.htm

That way you can actually discuss it instead of just throwing shade.

It's a meaningless buzzword. It might have root in an actual concept, but it's thrown around so much at targets it doesn't describe it's lost all meaning.

Hillary would have been the most liberal president since LBJ. Not neoliberal. Liberal liberal. Liberal as in liberal. As in without the neo part. Because she is a liberal.

The first is increased competition—achieved through deregulation and the opening up of domestic markets, including financial markets, to foreign competition. The second is a smaller role for the state, achieved through privatization and limits on the ability of governments to run fiscal deficits and accumulate debt.­

This does not describe Hillary Clinton at all.

 

[Totakeke]

Keep it short and simple like Joe Biden does when he talks about this kind of thing. Want to sell WWC on an infrastructure that'll put them back to work?

"Infrastructure folks. We're going back to work and we're rebuilding the country at the same time!"
"Need training? We'll get you training for FREE."
"Roads, bridges, sewers, electric grids, solar panels, wind turbines. We need them and you're getting to provide them. Let's get back to work!"

Not as elegant as MAGA but it sells the point in a fashion that's exciting, realistic and easy to process. Contrary to popular belief, a lot of these voters aren't stupid, they're just low information. If you have a good pitch alongside a quick and easy path to understand it, you have something.

You're right in a vacuum. Messages need to be compared against another message.

"Training vs. evil trade agreements causing factories moving to Mexico? Why can't I just keep my current job? I don't want retraining if you just keep things the way they were."

 

[Toxi]

This is the GAF purity test. Appealing to white working class is off limits, accuse him of dogwhistling etc. You act like it's a zero sum game.

Where did Sanders campaign during the primary?

Where did Clinton campaign during the primary?

We're in this awkward position where the Democratic party has trouble actually reaching all its constituency. We rightfully realize the problem with ignoring a major Democrat voting block while making the same mistake and taking another voting block for granted. Our strategy should be about not playing a zero sum game with Democrat voters.

 

[JP_]

It's a meaningless buzzword. It might have root in an actual concept, but it's thrown around so much at targets it doesn't describe it's lost all meaning.

Hillary would have been the most liberal president since LBJ. Not neoliberal. Liberal liberal. Liberal as in liberal. As in without the neo part. Because she is a liberal.

No I get it you heard somebody say that and it makes you feel clever. But in reality, it's still used to discuss economic policy, so...

 

[teiresias]

Also, exploiting the divisions within the GOP is obviously the way to go. Though I'd hope they give Trump as few wins as possible.

I'm already relieved the filibuster will live.

Did the GOP say it wouldn't nuke it?

 

[Beer Monkey]

I come from the white working class, and I am deeply humiliated that the Democratic Party cannot talk to the people where I came from

I'm humiliated you can't talk to black southern Democrats.

So there's a whole lot of irony here.

You know that cost you the nomination, right?

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

Instead of assuming people use "neoliberal" incorrectly, maybe try assuming they're using it in the current economic lexicon: http://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/fandd/2016/06/ostry.htm

That way you can actually discuss it instead of just throwing shade.

I'm pretty sure that if neoliberal is defined as "reducing role of state," we haven't had a neoliberal president since... Eisenhower?

Obama massively increased regulations and Hillary wanted to as well and yet they were decried as "neoliberals!"

 

[Zukkoyaki]

You're right in a vacuum. Messages need to be compared against another message.

"Training vs. evil trade agreements stopping factories moving to Mexico? Why can't I just keep my current job? I don't want retraining if you just keep things the way they are."

That's where it gets super tricky and you have to walk the line between honesty and fantasy. You just have to try your best to educate and sell to people at the same time instead of glossing over them like what happened this year.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

No I get it you heard somebody say that and it makes you feel clever. But in reality, it's still used to discuss monetary policy, so...

You can keep your meaningless buzz words that don't properly apply to the Democrats, meanwhile I'm going to actually think of reasons we can improve our messaging and pick a better candidate without abandoning minorities.

Because Obama and Hillary are basically identical in policy, and yet one appealed to WWC and one didn't. So there's something other than outright policy.

 

[Valhelm]

It's a meaningless buzzword. It might have root in an actual concept, but it's thrown around so much at targets it doesn't describe it's lost all meaning.

Hillary would have been the most liberal president since LBJ. Not neoliberal. Liberal liberal. Liberal as in liberal. As in without the neo part. Because she is a liberal.


This does not describe Hillary Clinton at all.

Hillary Clinton, like most Democrats, is pretty fiscally conservative outside of her support for a social democratic safety net. A jobs program based entirely on promoting private investment by the wealthy is not a left-wing position.

You can keep your meaningless buzz words that don't properly apply to the Democrats, meanwhile I'm going to actually think of reasons we can improve our messaging and pick a better candidate without abandoning minorities.

Because Obama and Hillary are basically identical in policy, and yet one appealed to WWC and one didn't. So there's something other than outright policy.

Romney and McCain were both more nakedly capitalist than Obama. Trump, effectively running to the left of Hillary on trade, totally blindsided her campaign.

 

[jmdajr]

Remember more innocent times?

 

[dramatis]

https://twitter.com/BernieSanders/status/798192678785716224

This is exactly the shit from Bernie I was talking about earlier. He specifically means white working class. Fuck off with that, Bernie

Man, it's like he forgot he came from Brooklyn

The slogan "Love Trumps Hate" was absolutely abyssal on every level.

Why would you advertise your opponent's name in your slogan?!

"I'm with Her" was almost as bad because Trump was able to do the obvious rebuttal "I"m with you!"

Aren't you fixating on things that are superficial at best?

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

Obama was the only leader in the western world willing to run massive deficits to reduce unemployment.

Very neoliberal by that IMF writer's definition.

 

[Barzul]

Did the GOP say it wouldn't nuke it?

It'd be a last resort, as it could easily come right back to bite them in the future. So they won't unless Dems absolutely stonewall like the GOP did during Obama's presidency.

 

[campfireweekend]

No I get it you heard somebody say that and it makes you feel clever. But in reality, it's still used to discuss monetary policy, so...

You clearly don't understand this word either. We have a part of the government that controls monetary policy, and nothing in Valhelms comment shows his ire is directed at them.

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

McMuffin keeping up the fight.

Will any national level elected GOP leaders condemn @realDonaldTrump's appointment of anti-Semite Steve Bannon to senior White House role?

https://twitter.com/Evan_McMullin/status/798023147718967296

 

[Brawly Likes to Brawl]

I'm humiliated you can't talk to black southern Democrats.

So there's a whole lot of irony here.

You know that cost you the nomination, right?

I tried bringing this up before and got told that black people were just "misinformed".

 

[campfireweekend]

Obama was the only leader in the western world willing to run massive deficits to reduce unemployment.

Very neoliberal by that IMF writer's definition.

But clearly the European left that implemented austerity is who we should hope to emulate.

 

[Zukkoyaki]

Hillary Clinton, like most Democrats, is pretty fiscally conservative outside of her support for a social democratic safety net. A jobs program based entirely on promoting private investment by the wealthy is not a left-wing position.



Romney and McCain were both more nakedly capitalist than Obama. Trump, effectively running to the left of Hillary on trade, totally blindsided her campaign.

The fact that the Clinton campaign hit Trump on being a bad business man instead of someone who shipped away jobs himself looks extremely boneheaded in hindsight -_-

 

[Pixieking]

The Alt-Right Hails Its Victorious God-Emperor

Trump connected to the segment of the population that was prepared to believe that racism was realism, misogyny was locker-room talk, inconvenient facts were media myths, and viciousness was the new normal. Just as surely as he has redrawn the electoral map, he has radically altered the Overton window. No Presidential candidate before him had ever mocked a disabled reporter, or bragged about his penis size during a debate. What kept every other candidate before him from stooping to these tactics, presumably, was deference to social norms. But norms can be swept aside.

Important thing to note, this (and I cherry-picked from the middle of the article). This is why normalization on Trump and his words/actions must not be allowed to happen.

Where did Sanders campaign during the primary?

Where did Clinton campaign during the primary?

We're in this awkward position where the Democratic party has trouble actually reaching all its constituency. We rightfully realize the problem with ignoring a major Democrat voting block while making the same mistake and taking another voting block for granted. Our strategy should be about not playing a zero sum game with Democrat voters.

Absolutely this... And it's why motivating and registering Dems to vote in the mid-terms is so important. Local and State level politics can be fine-tuned for the local and State level voter, and you can push that finesse up the ladder, to the 2020 ticket.

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

The first three months of Hillary's ads against Trump were "Trump outsources all of his businesses."

Come the fuck on, guys. They were annoying (because they were dumb) and frequent and they certainly happened.

 

[whyamihere]

In the Trump-era, Democrats should hone their message to the Working Class, not just the White Working Class. This is how Obama won twice

Spoiler

this was Dan Pfeiffer

 

[Totakeke]

The fact that the Clinton campaign hit Trump on being a bad business man instead of someone who shipped away jobs himself looks extremely boneheaded in hindsight -_-

She did in the debates.

 

[Beer Monkey]

I tried bringing this up before and got told that black people were just "misinformed".

They are "low information".

Gotta live the diet racism of so many privileged white "progressives".

 

[whyamihere]

Jeff Merkley is not here for Bannon

Trump’s appointment of racist alt-right champion Bannon to a senior post demeans the office and is unacceptable merkley.senate.gov/news/press-rel

“There should be no sugarcoating the truth here: Donald Trump just invited a white nationalist into the highest reaches of the government. Bannon has boasted that he made Breitbart News ‘the platform for the alt-right,’ which is the politically correct term for the resurrection of white nationalism.

“Under Bannon’s leadership, Breitbart News created news sections such as ‘Black Crime’ and compared the work of Planned Parenthood to the Holocaust. Under his leadership, Breitbart News ran this headline following the massacre of nine church-goers at an African American church in Charleston: ‘Hoist it high and proud: The Confederate flag proclaims a glorious heritage.’ He called conservative commentator Bill Kristol a ‘renegade Jew.’ Steve Bannon bears substantial responsibility for the open and disgusting acts of hatred that are sweeping across our nation.

“After running a campaign built on inciting divisions and hate, Donald Trump has claimed he wants to unite America. Yet he has done nothing meaningful to stop the wave of hate crimes and hate speech he has unleashed, and now has brought that strategy right into the Oval Office.

“Donald Trump needs to forcefully denounce the hateful actions and efforts to intimidate people that some of his supporters are undertaking and rescind the appointment of Steve Bannon.”