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PoliGAF 2016 |OT2| we love the poorly educated

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H

HK-47

Oh, bitch bitch bitch.
Zornack said:
We've had two candidates prove that a big bankroll isn't enough to get the nomination. Politicians aren't as reliant on contributions from corporations as Bernie wants you to believe.
Click to expand...

That incorrect. Presidental candidates arent. The rest of the system is certainly vulnerable to loads of money.
 
C

Cerium

Member
I don't know what Mitt hopes to accomplish unless he's auditioning for that third party run that the establishment keeps talking about.

If he just spends the whole time lamely criticizing Trump, it will only make Trump stronger by providing him a Jeb Bush like chew toy.

If he endorses Rubio, it will convince precisely zero people to change their vote.

So what the fuck is he thinking?
 
U

User 463088

Banned
I'm going to sit down later and do the math to make sure, but I agree with the guy on Reddit. Bernie would have to win every single remaining state by 7-8% to have a shot at erasing Hillary's delegate advantage.
 
M

Macho Madness

Member
This is just surfacing today but might provide some good insight if you're not understanding why Bernie is failing at courting the black vote, and why it's probably too late:

https://np.reddit.com/r/NeutralPoli..._bernie_sanders_doing_well_with_black/d09sdaw

"Why isn't Bernie Sanders doing as well with black voters?"

1. Because we already know what it's like to have someone promise us the moon and leave us out to dry. Believe it or not, we actually have a great deal of experience with far left politicians and figureheads. MLK, it's argued, was a socialist. The Black Panthers were socialists. We've had these ideas and promises run up and down our communities from East to West coast, North to South.... It never pans out. We've seen assassinations, fraud, all sorts of dirty tricks... Oftentimes though, it's as simple as politicians flat out lying to us. Bernie Sanders isn't new. So all these promises sound great and all, but they all sound like pipe dreams.

2. Who is he? No, not saying "black people haven't heard of Bernie Sanders", I mean, who is Bernie Sanders? He's this guy from Vermont apparently that claims he was very active in the Civil Rights movement but has been auspiciously absent from just about every black struggle since then. Suddenly he's on the national stage and all these people are saying, "well, he was there with you in the 60's so you should be with him now". Uh huh, and where has he been since? I honestly can't believe people would actually try and say what Sanders and his supporters say to black people with a straight face. Like we owe him something. Here's the truth, a LOT of people were involved in the CRM. Many went on to lead illustrious careers in politics and government. Some became real usurpers and phonies, others never stopped working for the community. Others simply moved on. The ones that the black community supports the most are people who went on to politics and government and never stopped working for the Black community. They represent us to this day. They give back to our communities. They speak out for us etc etc.... Suddenly Sanders wants to come around after 50 so years and cash in on some credit he has from the 60's and his supporters are demanding support as if he's been a champion of our community all this time? Nah son. Doesn't work that way.

3. His supporters, again, have done him no favors. His supporters are rabid. Especially true online. When the BLM thing happened, holy shit, the racism and venom was unbelievable. These people were supposed to be progressive too... But all you read was how stupid we were, nigger this and coon that. Even now, those same people are making passive aggressive (or flat out aggressive) comments towards black people for not supporting bernie enough or those who say they support Hillary. Black people are on the Internet, folks. We see exactly what you see when we read the comments section on news sites, on Reddit, on tumblr, on Twitter, on Instagram or on Facebook etc.

4. Black people aren't as liberal as a lot of people think we are. We just don't vote republican. But we are HUGE on church. We aren't comfortable supporting gay rights and we really aren't comfortable with atheism. Again, Idk if there's sources (I'm sure there should be- look at how CA went for Prop 8 in 2008 on basically the backs of black turnout) for this but I'm just speaking as someone who IS black and IS active in his community and has been all his life. As far as politics go, we're pretty moderate, if not straight conservative.

5. We LOVE the Clinton's. Again. We LOVE the Clinton's. Bill is the nigga and Hillary is a G haha but seriously, they're basically heroes for us and honorary black people to many black people. And it's rightfully earned. People always point to the crime laws as how we should be against them, but there ignorant of the fact that WE SUPPORTED THOSE CRIME LAWS. Man, the 90's were CRAZY. People were getting smoked for wearing Starter jackets and getting jacked for shoes. You couldn't go into certain neighborhoods or parts of the city if you didn't know someone who would vouch for you. And if you had on the wrong color, it was wraps. People were getting killed left and right. Innocent people too. Sitting in their living rooms watching tv and little kids were catching stray bullets through the eyes. The 80's and 90's were HELL. We were pissed off that the government wasn't helping us. Of course we wanted these gangsters and thugs locked up... WTF? Are we HAPPY that the laws unintended consequences ended up locking more of us up disproportionately? No. But no one can say with a straight face that, when those laws were written, Bill Clinton's goal was to lock up all black people. And Hillary's super predator comments? Bruh, that shit was real! It's surreal to watch urban white yuppies tell us what we should be outraged about. You never lived in our hoods. There sure as shit were young ass kids in middle school and high school that were out bangin and they were stone cold killers. Let me repeat that one more time: there absolutely were people on the streets, young ass kids too, that would have no qualms with jacking a couple, shooting an old lady through the lung and watching her bleed out. I'm talking about stoniest of the cold killers. Baby killers. Infant killers. Some of these thugs had no soul bruh, the brutality is something I've noticed a lot of white Americans are just completely ignorant or unaware of. That shit was absolutely accurate! And every time I hear shit like this from Bernie supporters my only reaction is, "damn... You really don't know". Dude, the 80's and 90's were HORRIBLE for black people and the ONLY people in government that seemed to care were the Clinton's. They fought HARD and passed the gun laws. They passed the crime bills that cleaned up our streets (albeit with terrible unintended consequences). They tried their best and they fought hard for us when no one else really did. Everybody was still wet off Reagan and was trying to be the next Ron. I know this is neutral politics and I'm trying to be on my best behavior, but F--- Ronald Reagan tho. Seriously. The reason me saying that matters is because, to a lot to black people, the Clinton's were the ones who had our backs after that guy ripped our communities to shreds and ruined us. Back to the point, we see the mud Bernie supporters are trying to sling on Hillary (and Bill to some extent), and it's just more of the same shit we saw in the early 90's. But Clinton had our backs in the 90's and we had his at the voting booth. And we got her back too now. She's not the same lady she was back then. She's older, obviously. But is ANYONE the same person they were 25 years ago? I'd hope not.
Click to expand...

Gave me a new perspective.
 
Y

Y2Kev

TLG Fan Caretaker Est. 2009
Cerium said:
I don't know what Mitt hopes to accomplish unless he's auditioning for that third party run that the establishment keeps talking about.

If he just spends the whole time lamely criticizing Trump, it will only make Trump stronger by providing him a Jeb Bush like chew toy.

If he endorses Rubio, it will convince precisely zero people to change their vote.

So what the fuck is he thinking?
Click to expand...

Maybe he's endorsing Trump/
 
S

shinra-bansho

Member
You all really secretly just want to be HRC's GBF, come on, admit it. So you may as well just wear that as the label.

brainchild said:
Oh? I could've sworn I saw a racial breakdown of the voters on the CNN exit polls. I know I couldn't have imagined this. I remember talking about how Bernie swept up nearly all the demographics in NH.
Click to expand...
It's broken down into white and non-white, he won the 7% latter share (with the all the error that entails) by 1 pt. Within that share of the poll 2% were black, 2% Asian, 1% Latino, 2% other.

And my point isn't that one can draw conclusions about Clinton winning the AA vote; it's that conclusions either way based on nothing substantial are spurious. There is no, or insufficient, useful actual data.
 
B

brainchild

Banned
Macho Madness said:
This is just surfacing today but might provide some good insight if you're not understanding why Bernie is failing at courting the black vote, and why it's probably too late:

https://np.reddit.com/r/NeutralPoli..._bernie_sanders_doing_well_with_black/d09sdaw

"Why isn't Bernie Sanders doing as well with black voters?"



Gave me a new perspective.
Click to expand...

I can't take anyone who makes such sweeping generalizations about their race seriously. "We LOVE the Clintons", "We're big on church", etc.

Speak for your damn self. As a black person, I find his comments highly offensive. Voting trends are one thing, but speaking for your race is another, and those generalizations have crossed the line.
 
1

120v

Member
Cerium said:
I don't know what Mitt hopes to accomplish unless he's auditioning for that third party run that the establishment keeps talking about.

If he just spends the whole time lamely criticizing Trump, it will only make Trump stronger by providing him a Jeb Bush like chew toy.

If he endorses Rubio, it will convince precisely zero people to change their vote.

So what the fuck is he thinking?
Click to expand...

possible he has some kind of "bombshell" with the angle he's been playing on tax returns

though i dunno why he couldn't just leak that to rubio's people or whatever
 
N

NeoXChaos

Member
brainchild said:
I can't take anyone who makes such sweeping generalizations about their race seriously. "We LOVE the Clintons", "We're big on church", etc.

Speak for your damn self. As a black person, I find his comments highly offensive. Voting trends are one thing, but speaking for your race is another, and those generalizations have crossed the line.
Click to expand...

you were explained this earlier along with Ekai in previous discussions about this.
 
R

Rubenov

Member
Jack Remington said:
So coming up we've got the following states. I'm predicting:

March 5th
Kansas (caucus) - Cruz
Kentucky (caucus) - Trump
Louisiana - Trump
Maine - Trump

March 6th
Puerto Rico - Marco

March 8th
Hawaii (caucus) - who the fuck knows?
Idaho - Trump or Cruz
Michigan - Trump
Mississippi - Trump stomp

March 12th
District of Columbia - Marco?

March 15th
Florida - Trump stomp
Illinois - Trump
Missouri - Trump
North Carolina - Trump
Ohio - Trump

Anyone have anything different?
Click to expand...

I have Idaho for Cruz and Hawaii for Marco
 
M

Macho Madness

Member
Here's something no one is reporting on. Trump has a women problem:

Trump's deficit of female voter vs. male voter:
VA: 7 points
VT: 3 points
TX: 6 points
TN: 5 points
SC: 8 points
OK: 9 points
NH: 5 points
NV: 2 points
MN: No data yet
MA: 6 points
IA: 1 point
GA: 10 points
AR: 6 points
AK: No data yet
AL: 16 points
Click to expand...

Averages out to a 7 point deficit nationwide.

Now just keep this one quiet for a little longer okay?
 
B

brainchild

Banned
shinra-bansho said:
You all really secretly just want to be HRC's GBF, come on, admit it. So you may as well just wear that as the label.

It's broken down into white and non-white, he won the 7% latter share (with the all the error that entails) by 1 pt. Within that share of the poll 2% were black, 2% Asian, 1% Latino, 2% other.

And my point isn't that one can draw conclusions about Clinton winning the AA vote; it's that conclusions either way based on nothing substantial are spurious. There is no, or insufficient, useful actual data.
Click to expand...

Sure, I can agree with that. But it's enough to shape impressions, regardless of how precise/imprecise they are.

I could just as easily say that based on the anecdotes I have in Minnesota, it sure SEEMS that the AA community supports Sanders more in Minnesota, even if I turn out to be wrong.


NeoXChaos said:
you were explained this earlier along with Ekai in previous discussions about this.
Click to expand...

There is no acceptable explanation for making those kinds of generalizations. Just don't do it. Period. It's offensive.

It would be different if they said, "AA voters in South Carolina are big fans of the Clintons and tend to go to church...". Talk about relevant demographics, not YOUR WHOLE DAMNED RACE.

Shit's inexcusable.
 
R

RastaMentality

Banned
No one's really said this outright yet. Are the only possible outcomes in the republican primary a Trump win or a brokered convention now? If Rubio has no path and Cruz sucks outside of the south, what other options are there?
 
S

shinra-bansho

Member
Just overlay this with the GOP timetable.
1284202566571695685.png
Click to expand...
 
R

royalan

Member
brainchild said:
Sure, I can agree with that. But it's enough to shape impressions, regardless of how precise they are.

I could just as easily say that based on the anecdotes I have in Minnesota, it sure SEEMS that the AA community supports Sanders more in Minnesota, even if I turn out to be wrong.




There is no acceptable explanation for making those kinds of generalizations. Just don't do it. Period. It's offensive.

It would be different if they said, "AA voters in South Carolina are big fans of the Clintons and tend to go to church...". Talk about relevant demographics, not YOUR WHOLE DAMNED RACE.

Shit's inexcusable.
Click to expand...

You should understand when people are speaking conversationally. He shouldn't have to preface every sentence with "Now, I'm not speaking for all black people, but..." when it's already very clear.

He makes legit points (especially when paired with the polls indicating that black folk as a block don't seem to give a shit about Bernie), but he's obviously expressing them casually.
 
S

Suikoguy

I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
brainchild said:
I can't take anyone who makes such sweeping generalizations about their race seriously. "We LOVE the Clintons", "We're big on church", etc.

Speak for your damn self. As a black person, I find his comments highly offensive. Voting trends are one thing, but speaking for your race is another, and those generalizations have crossed the line.
Click to expand...

Point numbers 1 and 2, in particular, are not "generalizing" as you put it.
Of course, if you wanted to ignore those points, it would be easy to look at the other ones and complain about them.
 
W

WayneMorse

Banned
A Human Becoming said:
There's way too much red on the East Coast for comfort.
Click to expand...

It seems to me like there's a serious cultural legacy of racism in the North and Midwest from when blacks were seen as a threat to white labor that goes on til today.

Rural areas of the North are racist as shit. Suburban and rural Midwestern states are just as racist as any parts of the deep South.
 
I

ItWasMeantToBe19

Banned
Giving a short speech on climate change to a Utah sorority coming up. Seem appealing at all?

Has everyone here heard of Flint, Michigan? Basically, Flint is a mostly poor, mostly black city. So, the politicians in Michigan felt they could get away with endangering the water supply of Flint. They wanted to save five million dollars and so, these Michigan politicians shifted Flint to a questionable water source. Now, thousands of residents of Flint suffer from lead poisoning and the cleanup costs alone will be in the billions.

The populace of Flint Michigan is the disadvantaged. The people of the city were largely poor, largely black, and were already facing an uphill battle through life. And then their political representatives thought it was acceptable to risk poisoning their children. I mean, does this situation sound fair at all? Destroying the health of the most vulnerable in society?

How some politicians have reacted to global warming has nearly mirrored their reaction to Flint. Global warming will harm the most vulnerable in society. Countries in Africa, the Middle East, and Asia will be most affected by global warming. Hundreds of millions of people in those areas make less than a dollar and twenty five cents a day. Does it sound fair to these poor, vulnerable people to say ‘Well, our polluting is causing warming that will kill your crops and endanger your water supply, but hey, we have to worry about our economy first’? Does that sound fair when we have so many millionaires and billionaires and the people most at risk from global warming are making less than a dollar twenty five?

Now let’s talk about economics for a minute. Economists say that tackling global warming with a carbon tax could reduce growth by point oh three percentage points a year. Point oh three percentage points. If we tax carbon fuels, people will use less carbon energy and the environment will be in a better place. And we can use those tax dollars to stimulate the economy or fund green energy or cut taxes for the middle class or we could even just send a check to people’s homes. Meanwhile, if global warming continues, our farms could die off, Florida will be a little bit underwater, and our ski industry will suffer. Tackling global warming is good for the economy.

Overall, politicians are taking risks with the environment that will harm the most vulnerable in society. They are taking these risks because of bad economics. But we-us here in this room-can change these political dynamics. At Citizens Climate Lobby, we talk to politicians and the media frequently to convince them of the need to take action on global warming. Our organization takes some credit for getting 11 House Republicans to publicly support taking global warming seriously. We’re making progress and you can help us make even more progress. So, please, join Citizens Climate Lobby and please take attitudes on global warming into account before you cast your vote in November. Taking action on global warming is one of the best ways to make the world fairer and to best protect the most vulnerable in society. Thank you.
Click to expand...
 
K

Kusagari

Member
Macho Madness said:
Here's something no one is reporting on. Trump has a women problem:



Averages out to a 7 point deficit nationwide.

Now just keep this one quiet for a little longer okay?
Click to expand...

Am I missing something or does it seem like some of his biggest wins have the biggest gaps?

He must have absolutely destroyed with men in Alabama to get the numbers he did.
 
B

brainchild

Banned
royalan said:
You should understand when people are speaking conversationally. He shouldn't have to preface every sentence with "Now, I'm not speaking for all black people, but..." when it's already very clear.

He makes legit points (especially when paired with the polls indicating that black folk as a block don't seem to give a shit about Bernie), but he's obviously expressing them casually.
Click to expand...

He shouldn't have to preface anything because he shouldn't be making the statement in the first place. It doesn't even matter if he had legitimate points to make.

It's just as offensive when comedians do it in regards to their generalizations about white people or black people.

You don't get to dictate to me how I should feel about this, regardless of how insignificant it may seem to you.

Suikoguy said:
Point numbers 1 and 2, in particular, are not "generalizing" as you put it.
Of course, if you wanted to ignore those points, it would be easy to look at the other ones and complain about them.
Click to expand...


generalize:

to make a general statement or form a general opinion; especially : to state an opinion about a larger group that is based on a smaller number of people or things within that group

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/generalize

Black people are a LARGE ASS GROUP. We span across many different states, nations, ethnicities, and beliefs all across the world. Aside from our pigmentation and DNA, there is no common thread between us, especially one of behavior, besides human behavior. If you want to talk about a specific subset of black people, come up with a word for that, but 'black people' is too fucking broad.
 
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