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PoliGAF 2016 |OT2| we love the poorly educated

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A

Anoregon

The flight plan I just filed with the agency list me, my men, Dr. Pavel here. But only one of you!
I don't think all Hillary supporters are racist. I think some Hillary supporters are racist based on some of the vile things that have been spewed online about Obama. It's not a large number of them. It's probably very small. They just happen to have large mouths, and we hear about them more than the majority of Hillary supporters who are quite lovely people.

HISTORY REPEATS ITSELF RABBLE RABBLE
 
E

Elaugaufein

Member
adam387 said:
That's not what was being said or argued.

Y2Kev was talking about the militant Sander's supporters, the ones that I think 99% of Bernie supporters would disavow. Of those people, I would argue that a vast majority are white, straight males. White, single males is the only group Bernie has won consistently, and by huge margins. I believe it was by 39% points in Mass.

I don't think all Bernie supporters are sexist. I think some Bernie supporters are sexist based on some of the vile things that have been spewed online about Hillary. It's not a large number of them. It's probably very small. They just happen to have large mouths, and we hear about them more than the majority of Bernie supporters who are quite lovely people.
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Then I am uncertain how winning straight white males by 30 points is relevant unless you're claiming that at least ~15% of young, white, straight, males voting in a Democratic primary are GG members.
Y2Kev said:
I said militant and I meant it. I don't have any issue with Bernie supporters! I think the roving band of Internet vigilantes though is very familiar.
Click to expand...

I know that's why I quoted adam not you. Though I'll admit the circle post was tempting too.

Manmademan said:
everyone sane knew what you meant
Click to expand...

Now I'm getting free diagnosis of my overall mental state, bonus.
 
U

User 463088

Banned
Anoregon said:
I don't think all Hillary supporters are racist. I think some Hillary supporters are racist based on some of the vile things that have been spewed online about Obama. It's not a large number of them. It's probably very small. They just happen to have large mouths, and we hear about them more than the majority of Hillary supporters who are quite lovely people.

HISTORY REPEATS ITSELF RABBLE RABBLE
Click to expand...

I don't doubt that some 08 Hillary supporters voted against Obama because of his race. It's disgusting. It's vile, but I'm sure it happened. Just as I'm sure some people voted against Hillary because of her gender. (In 08 and 16).

And anyone who refuses to vote for someone based on race, gender, ethnicity, religion or sexual orientation should be called out on it. We're Democrats. We're better than that shit.
 
G

Gruco

Banned
Diablos said:
I just hope Sanders can be mature enough to not throw a hissy fit and then explore a third party run himself. His behavior lately is just not acceptable in terms if respecting the party. I don't trust his sensibilities and regard for the outcome of the GE.
Click to expand...

Well of course he has no appreciation for the party. He's not part of it. That said I just don't see a 3rd party run of the table. He'll drag the fight out, delude his followers into thinking it's competitive, and they'll whip themselves into a frenzy for the next several months. At some point they'll start talking about it. But I remain confident Bernie wouldn't take it remotely seriously.

ItWasMeantToBe19 said:
Kasich is going to be Trump's VP (my speculation):

http://www.cnn.com/2016/03/03/polit...odcast-interview/index.html?eref=rss_politics
Click to expand...

Nah. JIM WEBB will be Trump's VP. It's too perfect.

pigeon said:
I am also super fascinated by Mitt Romney's backdoor run for the nomination here.

I didn't understand his big speech at all until the Vox article on this: http://www.vox.com/2016/3/3/11155110/mitt-romney-donald-trump-speech
Click to expand...
Also worth noting: Our Principles PAC is lead by ex Romney staff and has been ramping up anti Trump attacks. Willing to be he's more invested in this plan than even the speech was letting on.
 
G

gutter_trash

Banned
I watched Jim Webb on Morning Joe. He really really doesn't like Hillary and said that he will not vote for her.

Webb is goign to vote for Trump LOL
 
U

User 463088

Banned
Elaugaufein said:
Then I am uncertain how winning straight white males by 30 points is relevant unless you're claiming that at least ~15% of young, white, straight, males voting in a Democratic primary are GG members.
Click to expand...

That is not what is being argued, nor is that what anyone is claiming.

I think we would agree that the vast majority of Gamergate people are white, straight men. Bernie's largest block of supporters come from white, unmarried men. Y2Kev was talking about the militant Bernie supporters. We were (mostly facetiously I'm sure) talking about how they may overlap. That's all. It's not some huge indictment of white, males who support Bernie.

And, note I used the /s on my post because I was being (mostly) sarcastic.
 
U

User 463088

Banned
Hillary received the endorsement of the United Farm Workers.

http://www.ufw.org/_board.php?mode=view&b_code=news_press&b_no=17846&page=1&field=&key=&n=1159

After elected farm worker leaders from companies under UFW contracts discussed the presidential race for a year, studied the candidates’ words, actions and careers, and recently spent an hour closely interviewing Hillary Clinton on key farm worker issues, the United Farm Workers believes Secretary Clinton is the strong, most respectful leader our country needs now.

Hillary Clinton has consistently stood with farm workers and immigrants, fought on behalf of and voted for comprehensive immigration reform, repeatedly sponsored the UFW-negotiated AgJobs legislation as a senator, supported farm workers in their fights for union contracts and worked to end discrimination against them.

The consistent respect Hillary Clinton has shown farm workers over her career, her willingness to answer tough questions, her commitment and work to end prejudice and her determination in the pursuit of progressive change have earned our support. Hillary Clinton has the strong resolve needed to make change happen. She is the most experienced candidate for president in recent memory. And she is the best equipped to defeat the nativist, hateful forces of the current Republican front-runner.
Click to expand...
 
I

ItWasMeantToBe19

Banned
I'm old enough to remember when "Political Correctness is running amok" articles were being written by outlets that now think Trump is going too far with dick jokes.
 
M

Makai

Member
HylianTom said:
One of my favorite parts of that Nate Cohn analysis? Rubio would likely end-up winning just 3 more states, falling 4 short of the number required to even be eligible for the nomination ballot in Cleveland.

===

I feel bad for normal Bernie supporters. That's some embarrassing shit.
Click to expand...
Unless the y changed the rules recently anyone can be nominated on second ballot.
 
E

Elaugaufein

Member
adam387 said:
That is not what is being argued, nor is that what anyone is claiming.

I think we would agree that the vast majority of Gamergate people are white, straight men. Bernie's largest block of supporters come from white, unmarried men. Y2Kev was talking about the militant Bernie supporters. We were (mostly facetiously I'm sure) talking about how they may overlap. That's all. It's not some huge indictment of white, males who support Bernie.

And, note I used the /s on my post because I was being (mostly) sarcastic.
Click to expand...

Yes, I'd agree that GG is mostly white, straight , men. Also true. And there's probably a non-zero overlap between militant Bernie supporters and GG , though it's highly unlikely to be circle (if nothing else because some of those GG people are off on the GOP side and it's incredibly likely many of them are effectively apolitical given their habit of working outside societal systems in a destructive fashion using terror tactics).

For a fascetious / sarcastic thing the implication sure gets made fairly often. And with what appears to be varying degrees of seriousness. Though you're not someone who I've seen give the impression of being super serious about it.
 
U

User 463088

Banned
Elaugaufein said:
Yes, I'd agree that GG is mostly white, straight , men. Also true. And there's probably a non-zero overlap between militant Bernie supporters and GG , though it's highly unlikely to be circle (if nothing else because some of those GG people are off on the GOP side and it's incredibly likely many of them are effectively apolitical given their habit of working outside societal systems in a destructive fashion using terror tactics).

For a fascetious / sarcastic thing the implication sure gets made fairly often. And with what appears to be varying degrees of seriousness. Though you're not someone who I've seen give the impression of being super serious about it.
Click to expand...

I mean, to be honest, I would like to know why Bernie does disproportionally better with white, unmarried men than with every other group. This is not me calling his supporters sexist or anything like that. I want to know if it's a messaging thing or what. I'd argue it's probably based on age, because unmarried men tend to be younger, but I'm not sure that's enough of an explanation.

But, at the end of the day, we're left with a candidate in the Democratic Party who seems to be mainly building a coalition around young, white (mostly) male people. And, to be frank, I don't know how I feel about that.
 
H

HylianTom

Banned
Makai said:
Unless the y changed the rules recently anyone can be nominated on second ballot.
Click to expand...
I keep forgetting this. Chaos on the second ballot, hot damn.

CCS said:
See, Hillary has an excellent grassroots movement! :p
Click to expand...
rimshot-gary.gif
 
E

Ekai

Member
And now we get to comparing Bernie supporters to GG. Even as a 'joke' it seems like a new low to demean your fellow Democrats.
I get that some of you said "militant" Bernie supporters but still. It's GG you're talking about here.
 
V

Valhelm

contribute something
adam387 said:
That's not really fair...it's not like the only demographic group Bernie wins consistently is young, white, single men....and it's not like he wins that group by 30(ish) points...../s
Click to expand...

Bernie's success is driven by his enormous support among young women, who substantially prefer him by no small margin. Please don't spread misinformation to promote your own ideological narrative
 
C

CCS

Banned
Elaugaufein said:
Wouldn't that be some kind of Lawn or Turf Association.

(There's a terrible joke there that I'm not going to make.)
Click to expand...

The Clintons' think they're above the law(n).

Ekai said:
And now we get to comparing Bernie supporters to GG. Even as a 'joke' it seems like a new low to demean your fellow Democrats.
I get that some of you said "militant" Bernie supporters but still. It's GG you're talking about here.
Click to expand...

The point was there is a small but non zero and vocal overlap between the two groups.
 
G

Gruco

Banned
adam387 said:
I mean, to be honest, I would like to know why Bernie does disproportionally better with white, unmarried men than with every other group. This is not me calling his supporters sexist or anything like that. I want to know if it's a messaging thing or what. I'd argue it's probably based on age, because unmarried men tend to be younger, but I'm not sure that's enough of an explanation.

But, at the end of the day, we're left with a candidate in the Democratic Party who seems to be mainly building a coalition around young, white (mostly) male people. And, to be frank, I don't know how I feel about that.
Click to expand...

This obviously isn't the whole story, but two conjectures:

1) A lot of these people might be Republicans in any other generation. But the trinity of Clinton-Bush-Obama younger people have grown up with has left the very idea of republicans unacceptable.

2) People who want more conservative policies support Sanders. There is obviously a share of his support which is just existential rage against policy continuation.

I have no claims on how much this explains. Certainly not the whole story. But probably important.
 
O

Owzers

Member
all Cruz does is insinuate and give half truths, between lying Ted and Clueless Trump I'm hoping Hillary can dodge prison. MSNBC host tried to go after cruz's deception that Richard haass is just some liberal advisor and that he also advised Bush and Powell and the spokesman shrugged it off and said those two aren't running.
 
O

Oltsu

Banned
adam387 said:
I mean, to be honest, I would like to know why Bernie does disproportionally better with white, unmarried men than with every other group. This is not me calling his supporters sexist or anything like that. I want to know if it's a messaging thing or what. I'd argue it's probably based on age, because unmarried men tend to be younger, but I'm not sure that's enough of an explanation.

But, at the end of the day, we're left with a candidate in the Democratic Party who seems to be mainly building a coalition around young, white (mostly) male people. And, to be frank, I don't know how I feel about that.
Click to expand...

He puts economic issues and anti-big business / anti-bank rhetoric at the forefront instead of social issues.

White men aren't affected as much by the current hot social issues so when a lot of the Dem platform is based on social issues (and sometimes the representatives at the top are actually opposed to these young male dems on economic issues) you'll get people who actually don't care for obama or clinton much at all. Because both Clinton and Obama are strong on social issues but are quite honestly heavily pro big business, pro big banks etc. Another angle would also be Clinton / Obama being extremely pro surveillance state.

So essentially you have democrats who are socially liberal (as in they do think that most of the social issues are important) but are left wondering whether their economic needs and ideology are completely forgotten in the age of cronyism, terrible campaign finance, deals like the TPP, etc.

It's not that complicated.
 
M

Macho Madness

Member
In my entire time growing up, there has been only one brief period where I found Republicans acceptable and that was the few months after 9/11.

Since then, not even close.
 
A

ApharmdX

Banned
Elaugaufein said:
If there's one thing I've learned from being in IT academia and talking to friends in IT who work in the government anad private sectke its that adherence to proper practices is universally terrible unless you're in an area where there'll be major consequences and there's actjve enforcement. If anything it gets worse at higher levels of authority since those people a) tend to be not tech or sec as background and b) are used to getting a lot of leeway to start with (which admittedly they probably need in a lot of situations).

The stories I've heard from my government friend could fill the entire quota of negative examples for a project management book , with enough left over for a software engineering book and another one on security practices.
Click to expand...

I can believe it, especially in large organizations where implementing appropriate security is complicated, expensive, and time-consuming, but this is just beyond the pale. Hillary's email server contained a mix of personal and official communications, including national defense intel, and was curated by her own staff. I could go on and on about this, but there's a lot of fault to be found here. It's not just a smear like Benghazi.

Suikoguy said:
There was no "policy" on Secretary of States regarding emails at that point. The rules changed with Kerry.
Click to expand...

shinra-bansho said:
I'm not sure how many times it needs to be said specifically that using a private email account didn't violate official policy. Because it didn't.

Also the metacommentary is boring. Victim complexes are boring. Why aren't you talking about Ted Cruz eating snot on live TV.
Click to expand...

It's more complicated than this. The policy in place at that time, as I understand it, allowed for State Department officials to send email through personal accounts, but it was designed to accommodate emergencies where employees would not have access to their official email. The intent was never for workers to exclusively use personal email for official communications. And it was supposed to be transparent to the federal government. The fact that many emails were deleted before the information was released is pretty damning.
 
O

Oltsu

Banned
Jim Webb has a D in front of his name. That might actually be a pretty smart move for VP pick for trump.

That said I still think he should have gone for someone like sleepy Carson. Make the racism claims harder to get to stick.
 
U

User 463088

Banned
Valhelm said:
Bernie's success is driven by his enormous support among young women, who substantially prefer him by no small margin. Please don't spread misinformation to promote your own ideological narrative
Click to expand...

I was talking about specific exit polling data.

In Mass:

Married Men:
H: 49
B: 50

Married Women
H: 59
B: 40

Unmarried Women:
H: 53
B: 46

Unmarried Men:
H: 30
B: 69

In Oklahoma, where Hillary lost, she won all women by 2 points, but lost all men by 27.

I don't doubt that Bernie does well among young, white women. Never have. However, he does even better among young, white men in several states.

(And I think a lot of this is more ideological than anything. Younger voters, regardless of gender, are just more into Bernie for whatever reason)
 
M

Macho Madness

Member
Oltsu said:
Jim Webb has a D in front of his name. That might actually be a pretty smart move for VP pick for trump.

That said I still think he should have gone for someone like sleepy Carson. Make the racism claims harder to get to stick.
Click to expand...
He won't have a D in front of his name if he's the Republican nominee.
 
P

PBY

Banned
Lmao still blows my mind at how these debates always end w/ a Trump rout in every single online poll, without fail.

I don't know that they mean anything, but its so consistent its hilarious.
 
R

Rubenov

Member
Oltsu said:
Jim Webb has a D in front of his name. That might actually be a pretty smart move for VP pick for trump.

That said I still think he should have gone for someone like sleepy Carson. Make the racism claims harder to get to stick.
Click to expand...

He says he wants a politician. Why would 2 outsiders run? Besides, black people will not all of a sudden consider voting for Trump because there's a black man on the ticket, nor anyone else with half a brain for that matter.

VP is all about Kasich and Ohio IMO.
 
U

User 463088

Banned
PBY said:
Lmao still blows my mind at how these debates always end w/ a Trump rout in every single online poll, without fail.

I don't know that they mean anything, but its so consistent its hilarious.
Click to expand...

It's just people freeping the polls. Same way Ron Paul always won the debates. Whoever has the greater online presence wins.

I thought last night was Trump's best performance until the shit show got worse in the middle.
 
E

Elaugaufein

Member
adam387 said:
I mean, to be honest, I would like to know why Bernie does disproportionally better with white, unmarried men than with every other group. This is not me calling his supporters sexist or anything like that. I want to know if it's a messaging thing or what. I'd argue it's probably based on age, because unmarried men tend to be younger, but I'm not sure that's enough of an explanation.

But, at the end of the day, we're left with a candidate in the Democratic Party who seems to be mainly building a coalition around young, white (mostly) male people. And, to be frank, I don't know how I feel about that.
Click to expand...

Where do you expect (young), white , straight , male liberals to go ? They have to go somewhere and it's kind of unnatural to expect them to automatically support all other groups while not in anyway pursueing some of their own interests. A respect for human dignity / rights is not a motivation for absolute selflessness for anyone but (metaphorical) saints.
 
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