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PoliGAF 2016 |OT2| we love the poorly educated

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You can still provide the labels and fight against that narrative.

Only a Sith deals in absolutes ;)

Also, you can't speak for every American and say that them wanting GMO labels is based on the anti-science agenda.

Requiring labeling adds real costs to the production of food, and we know that if the public were properly informed, they would agree there is no benefit. High costs and zero benefit sounds like a terrible policy to me.
 
As an example of something that can counter the anti-science narrative of GMOs while still providing the labels, we can make it so that the labels say something to the effect of "currently there is no evidence that indicates that GMOs are harmful for human consumption, this label is purely for your information".

Obviously it wouldn't be worded exactly like that, but that is just ONE example in how you could label GMO foods without being anti-science.

"This product was grown using dihydrogen monoxide, a chemical known to the state of California to play a role in the development of cancer."
 

Cerium

Member
I think this is the third time I've posted it now, but "the will of the people" think that DNA in food should require a special label. I could probably get the will of the people to oppose the presence of C2H6O in wine.

Because the people are idiots.
No matter what he says or what mental gymnastics he needs to continue lying to himself, he would never be defending this garbage if his hero Sanders hadn't adopted it as part of his official platform.
 
I think this is the third time I've posted it now, but "the will of the people" think that DNA in food should require a special label. I could probably get the will of the people to oppose the presence of C2H6O in wine.

Because the people are idiots.

Then let's do something like this:

As an example of something that can counter the anti-science narrative of GMOs while still providing the labels, we can make it so that the labels say something to the effect of "currently there is no evidence that indicates that GMOs are harmful for human consumption, this label is purely for your information".

Obviously it wouldn't be worded exactly like that, but that is just ONE example in how you could label GMO foods without being anti-science.



I mean, sure.

But that's somewhat like -- and I regret this analogy already, but I'm going to run with it -- to adding a chapter on Intelligent Design to a Science book with a disclaimer that it doesn't have any actual scientific evidence.

It can be there, but why?

There are so many labels we can add first that would have significant, positive impacts on consumption. Why not increase the size of the Trans Fat and Sodium amounts on packaging instead of having a pointless GMO label?

It's not about the fact that it can be harmless with the proper warning that there's no science to support it. It's the fact that our resources are limited and we would pursue that instead of other things in precious packaging real estate.

This problem isn't going to just magically disappear. So labeling in this way would be a worthy compromise.
 

hawk2025

Member
Then let's do something like this:







This problem isn't going to just magically disappear. So labeling in this way would be a worthy compromise.

I disagree.

Government should be about allocating information and resources efficiently where markets can't.

It's not a worthy compromise, because it is an allocation of information that we know is inefficient.

It's not a problem, whether it disappears or not. I don't think vaccines should come with autism disclaimers, either, and that shit storm was way bigger than the GMO discussion.
 
Pretty big endorsement for Clinton, Myrlie Evers-Williams who is the widow of slain civil rights leader Medgar Evers has endorsed Hillary:

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...rlie-evers-williams-hillary-clinton/81410354/

Myrlie Evers-Williams, wife of the slain civil rights leader Medgar Evers, is calling on young Americans and those apathetic about voting to “take sides” in the 2016 election to stop a racist tide that’s “raising its ugly face in America.”
And she’s announcing she's on Hillary Clinton's side.
“I’ve lived long enough to see the ugliest of it all,” Evers-Williams said in an interview with USA TODAY in which she endorsed the former first lady.
 
Requiring labeling adds real costs to the production of food, and we know that if the public were properly informed, they would agree there is no benefit. High costs and zero benefit sounds like a terrible policy to me.

Properly informing the public through labels in the way I suggested would help to counter the anti-science agenda as well as allow Americans to make more informed decisions about the products that they consume. I'd say it's worth the cost if most Americans are asking for it.

"This product was grown using dihydrogen monoxide, a chemical known to the state of California to play a role in the development of cancer."

That's a lot different than the kind of label that I suggested.
 
Pretty big endorsement for Clinton, Myrlie Evers-Williams who is the widow of slain civil rights leader Medgar Evers has endorsed Hillary:

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...rlie-evers-williams-hillary-clinton/81410354/
Democrat side is boring now. Hillary will sew up the nomination between tomorrow and 15th.

GOP tho...Trump train needs more steam! Booger Ted really turned out to be the dark horse of the election as PD predicted.

In any case, as long as Little Marco loses Florida I will die a happy man.
 
GMO labeling is definitely not a priority for many voters.

It's not the top priority, but it's still important to them.

I disagree.

Government should be about allocating information and resources efficiently where markets can't.

It's not a worthy compromise, because it is an allocation of information that we know is inefficient.

It's not a problem, whether it disappears or not. I don't think vaccines should come with autism disclaimers, either, and that shit storm was way bigger than the GMO discussion.

Our government is about representative democracy that serves in the interest of the people, and if the majority of our people want more information about their food, you give it to them, even with additional costs. Hell, tax 'em for it and then see if they still care about it if you have to.

Also, it should be noted that my suggested disclaimers aren't anti-science but pro-science. They wouldn't promote GMOs as harmful, but NOT harmful.
 

A Human Becoming

More than a Member
Really? isn't that kinda mundane and monotonous after a while?
No. I like people asking personal questions that relate to larger issues than simply speaking about the larger issues. It also reduces the he said she said, which helps make the Republican debates awful but entertaining.
 

hawk2025

Member
It's not the top priority, but it's still important to them.



Our government is about representative democracy that serves in the interest of the people, and if the majority of our people want more information about their food, you give it to them, even with additional costs. Hell, tax 'em for it and then see if they still care about it if you have to.

Also, it should be noted that my suggested disclaimers aren't anti-science but pro-science. They wouldn't promote GMOs as harmful, but NOT harmful.

...yeah, I have basically no give here. I think it's preposterous to capitulate to this.

I categorically and completely disagree and I think I've made my point as clear as possible, so let's move on :)
 

pigeon

Banned
So should we should label all corn as GMO? Because corn was genetically engineered from Teosinte by Indigenous people.

CornProgression.jpg


That's a more fundamental change than any GMO protein expression modifications. The GMO label is not there for information, it's there so "organic" companies can make quick cash off FUD.

This does not seem like a super good comparison to me. Sure, corn was genetically engineered from maize. Over the course of like centuries of careful selection and winnowing! By the very nature of selective breeding, any characteristics that would be dangerous to people eating it were consistently removed, because, like, that's how centuries-long selective breeding works.

The change in timescale that GMOs represent is a meaningful difference, because that timescale is itself part of the process of ensuring safety. I really don't feel like this is a crazy point to make.

The GMO conversation is a little bit of a bummer to me, because it seems like it is considered immediately "anti-science," on the same scale as climate change denial or anti-vaccination, to have doubts about the ultimate safety of GMOs. This seems like a surprisingly zealous, black-and-white position for people who are ostensibly arguing for the success of reason to hold.

I think it's worth noting that it's only been fifty years since scientists were calmly assuring people that we didn't need to test thalidomide on pregnant women since science guaranteed it couldn't cross the placental barrier. Science is not, you know, an exact science, it's a series of incorrect certainties. That doesn't mean you should assume it's incorrect, but it is not unreasonable to maintain doubt.
 

Ecotic

Member
They shall be the first country we conquer.
All Mexico baby! We'll annex them and give a tax holiday on the $2 trillion in offshore money if it's invested into Mexico to bring them into first world standards. And then after 40 years of governing them as a territory, we'll admit the Mexican states into the union, annex the Canadian British Columbia to make our country contiguous, and the U.S will be the dominant world power for all eternity! The Chinese and Russians will cower before our feet.

It's what Polk would have wanted.
 
This does not seem like a super good comparison to me. Sure, corn was genetically engineered from maize. Over the course of like centuries of careful selection and winnowing! By the very nature of selective breeding, any characteristics that would be dangerous to people eating it were consistently removed, because, like, that's how centuries-long selective breeding works.

The change in timescale that GMOs represent is a meaningful difference, because that timescale is itself part of the process of ensuring safety. I really don't feel like this is a crazy point to make.

The GMO conversation is a little bit of a bummer to me, because it seems like it is considered immediately "anti-science," on the same scale as climate change denial or anti-vaccination, to have doubts about the ultimate safety of GMOs. This seems like a surprisingly zealous, black-and-white position for people who are ostensibly arguing for the success of reason to hold.

I think it's worth noting that it's only been fifty years since scientists were calmly assuring people that we didn't need to test thalidomide on pregnant women since science guaranteed it couldn't cross the placental barrier. Science is not, you know, an exact science, it's a series of incorrect certainties. That doesn't mean you should assume it's incorrect, but it is not unreasonable to maintain doubt.

Yeah, I think there's an argument to be made about the uncertainty factor. 'Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence' and all that jazz.

Still, we need to be careful in not confusing the public by conflating uncertainty with fear. At the same time, there are good ways to handle this, and ignoring the issue is not one of them.

I also agree that I'm disappointed with the overall tone on this issue, not just in this thread, but within some areas of the scientific community. This is not on the same level as climate change denial and vaccinations. It's really not.
 
Jesus Christ, Trump is a monstrous racist:

In 1991, Trump first faced questions about his dealings with Robert LiButti, a plump, balding and nationally famous horse breeder with an explosive temper who would later be banned from New Jersey casinos for his ties to Mafia boss John Gotti. At the time, New Jersey state regulators had launched an investigation into allegations by nine employees of one of Trump’s Atlantic City casinos, the Trump Plaza, that the hotel had repeatedly removed African-Americans and women from craps tables after LiButti, one of the highest-rolling gamblers in the city’s history, loudly complained about their presence when he was playing.

The probe resulted in a $200,000 fine against the Trump Plaza by the New Jersey Casino Control Commission for violating state anti-discrimination laws. Investigators found that LiButti had, on multiple occasions, berated blacks and women using what one state official described as the “vilest” language — including racist slurs and references to women in obscene terms — and that the Trump Plaza, in order not to lose his substantial business, sought to accommodate him by keeping the employees away from his betting tables, according to commission documents recently obtained by Yahoo News under the New Jersey Open Public Records Act.

https://www.yahoo.com/politics/trump-challenged-over-ties-to-mob-linked-gambler-100050602.html
 
It's not the top priority, but it's still important to them.

Nah, they only care when asked leading questions. It isn't really important to many citizens.

Our government is about representative democracy that serves in the interest of the people, and if the majority of our people want more information about their food, you give it to them, even with additional costs.

Nah, that's a terrible precedent. Our labeling criteria has been sane and rational for decades and we need to keep it that way.

Yeah, I think there's an argument to be made about the uncertainty factor. 'Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence' and all that jazz.

Well, the biggest uncertainty is in artificial selection and mutagenesis, and those techniques aren't GMO aka transgenesis, so this policy is not about uncertainty.
 
@Taniel
Rare poll of IL (big 3/15 prize) by Chicago Tribune. via @gregfeltes @TheMikeSansone

Clinton 67 Sanders 25
Trump 32 Cruz 22 Rubio 21 Kas 18
It's from 3/2 to 3/6.

Look at that split among non-Trump voters. Either Kasich or Cruz could take it depending on how Rubio's voters go.

Edit: Here's the source:
dln2dRT.jpg
 

Bowdz

Member
Why won't those godless heathens just drop out and endorse our Lord God King Emperor Trump? Booger eatin Ted and the fruit ninja have no chance.
 

ivysaur12

Banned
I think it's a little bizarre to say that the "people" are asking for GMO labeling when it was already rejected (albeit by a small margin) in one of the most liberal states in the country.

Maybe that'll change in CA, or maybe Oregon or Vermont will pass mandatory GMO labeling. But just because something is decided upon by a majority does not necessarily mean that it's a good idea. California's entire proposition system runs counter to the notion that the will of the majority on almost all major issues is a good idea.

Also GMO labeling is stupid anti-science fearmongering with no basis in fact and even stipulating that there is no harm proven by GMOs still implicitly implies that there's a reason why they should even be labeled in the first place.
 

HK-47

Oh, bitch bitch bitch.
That's a tough one, you'd want high VIT and FAI (love and kindness), high ADP for obvious reasons, high END for Benghazi Committee hearings, high INT and ATN for policy wonkishness and breadth, Soul Spears to pierce enemies' underprepared arguments, Dark Fog to cover up questionable activities, various healing miracles, and Denial, of course. Flash Sweat would be right out tho, she doesn't sweat. So I guess a hybrid sorceries/miracles/hexes caster with some wasted points in ADP?

Of course, she'll just wear the Tseldora set, since it's all yellow and boring and gives her extra souls courtesy of Wall Street donors.

Ah the speed runner's choice.
 
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