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PoliGAF 2016 |OT5| Archdemon Hillary Clinton vs. Lice Traffic Jam

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T

TheFatOne

Member
Yea this is about what I expect from Sanders. He can't condemn his base for their bullshit because they will eat him alive. He's going to just try to wait this out and disappear.
ciaossu said:
An adult said this?

I can't believe I fell for his schtick and voted for him. What a man-child
Click to expand...

Oldest con in the politics game is the man of the people bullshit. Easy to fall for it as well.
 
HUELEN10

HUELEN10

Member
Brainchild never condoned the actions of violence, and neither did Sanders' statement. I believe he (Sanders) should have condemned things more, but the statement as a whole doesn't condone bad actions.

I think some of you are mis-reading what has been said.
 
O

Orbis Tabula

Member
The Technomancer said:
All he had to say, all he had to say, was "I know some people engage in violence and harassment in the name of my campaign. To those people I want to say: please do not support me, or act as though you represent me"

That's so incredibly basic
Click to expand...

Yup. I mean, I hate to jump on the hate train, because if gets out of hand here sometimes, but this was an easy one. This is one of those instances where you swallow your pride and take your lumps, even if you think it's not your fault. Painting yourself as the victim here makes you look petty and dumb. He's making himself look stupid in order to contest a claim over 2 or 3 delegates and its simply not worth it.
 
T

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
I mean

fuck

I really really don't like to make the GamerGate comparison

There are obviously orders of magnitude of difference in the size, the destructiveness, and the misogyny and hate being spewed

But from a tactical perspective there are a lot of parallels to draw
 
H

hawk2025

Member
Everyone knows how to craft a fucking easy condemning statement.


And everyone knows what it actually sounds like when you cap off a paragraph with "...but these two things that might not even be related happened to us, too".

Stop dancing around it. He had ZERO give on that statement.
 
B

Bowdz

Member
Cesare Borgia said:
https://twitter.com/RalstonReports/status/732653090898247680
Click to expand...

I'm lmao at all the people that thought we'd heard the last of Ralston after the initial NV caucus had happened. John Ralston be like:

Breaking-Bad-Were-Done-When-I-Say-Were-Done.gif
 
I

Iolo

Member
Supers now have a legitimate excuse to declare before DC. I don't think enough will immediately to make it official, but you'll likely see movement now. We don't need this crap in our politics, no matter what side you are on.
 
B

brainchild

Banned
Zornack said:
Which petition?
Click to expand...

The petition to amend the temporary rules, which was submitted by at least 20% of all delegates according to state convention rules.

HUELEN10 said:
Brainchild never condoned the actions of violence, and neither did Sanders' statement. I believe he should have condemned things more, but the statement as a whole doesn't condone bad actions.

I think some of you are mis-reading what has been said.
Click to expand...

In fact, I condemned their actions in this very thread. The responses thus far have been very disappointing.
 
HUELEN10

HUELEN10

Member
hawk2025 said:
Everyone knows how to craft a fucking easy condemning statement.


And everyone knows what it actually sounds like when you cap off a paragraph with "...but these two things that might not even be related happened to us, too".

Stop dancing around it. He had ZERO give on that statement.
Click to expand...

Why should there be any give when you are not responsible, even after you condemn the condemnable (which again, he should have done more of IMO)?
 
A

ampere

Member
TheFatOne said:
Oldest con in the politics game is the man of the people bullshit. Easy to fall for it as well.
Click to expand...

I considered my primary vote as a "protest vote" and didn't expect him to win, but I should still be better than that.

Policy plausibility has to become a bigger part of my candidate choice in the future.
 
A

Aaron Strife

Banned
This is plotting out exactly like GamerGate.

First it was allegations against Zoe Quinn sleeping with journalists to get positive coverage of her game. Turns out to be untrue. Little shitheads who left death and rape threats suddenly go "Oh no, that's not what we were pissed about! It was ethics in gaming journalism! Also fuck Zoe Quinn!"

They're already mad dammit, and they're gonna keep on keeping on.
 
H

Hazmat

Member
I don't smoke, but I think I'm going to need a cigarette after Clinton finally ends Sanders' brief flirtation with relevance.
 
K

kirblar

Member
The Technomancer said:
I mean

fuck

I really really don't like to make the GamerGate comparison

There are obviously orders of magnitude of difference in the size, the destructiveness, and the misogyny and hate being spewed

But from a tactical perspective there are a lot of parallels to draw
Click to expand...
Didn't the anti-GG sub also devolve into awful tactics as well?
 
O

Orbis Tabula

Member
Yeah, I'm still not gonna go so far as to get into calling this gamergate bullshit. That's still a bridge and a half too far for me. Nor am I certain that nothing wrong actually did happen to Sanders here. I haven't watched the videos, but I would buy that things happened as they claim, a priori. It's believable. But the situation spun out of control and it seems like only one camp is responsible for the escalation here. I expected a disowning. But whatever. I'm not too worked up about it, as Bernie lost this months ago and I think BernieOrBust will be irrelevant. Let's talk about something else. Where's that email server guy!?
 
U

User 463088

Banned
The issue is not just this one specific instance, though. Every single time Bernie's campaign has done something wrong, there's always someone else at fault. It's never, ever Bernie's people. Ever. When they got caught accessing information they shouldn't have...well someone else must have done it too (even though there were no facts to support that.) Bernie's people sneak into place they're not supposed to be? Well...FRAUD!

It's tiring. He is not infallible. He is not perfect. He's a politician who is so far out of his depths its laughable.
 
B

BlastProcessing

Member
Crayons said:
I can barely see the text in that picture. What is it, Bernie claiming fraud?
Click to expand...

Here is a real link.

Sander's PR said:
PRESS RELEASE
Sanders Statement on Nevada
MAY 17, 2016
Twitter Facebook Email Link
FORT LAUDERDALE, Fla. – U.S. Sen. Bernie Sanders on Tuesday issued the following statement:

“It is imperative that the Democratic leadership, both nationally and in the states, understand that the political world is changing and that millions of Americans are outraged at establishment politics and establishment economics. The people of this country want a government which represents all of us, not just the 1 percent, super PACs and wealthy campaign contributors.

“The Democratic Party has a choice. It can open its doors and welcome into the party people who are prepared to fight for real economic and social change – people who are willing to take on Wall Street, corporate greed and a fossil fuel industry which is destroying this planet. Or the party can choose to maintain its status quo structure, remain dependent on big-money campaign contributions and be a party with limited participation and limited energy.

“Within the last few days there have been a number of criticisms made against my campaign organization. Party leaders in Nevada, for example, claim that the Sanders campaign has a ‘penchant for violence.’ That is nonsense. Our campaign has held giant rallies all across this country, including in high-crime areas, and there have been zero reports of violence. Our campaign of course believes in non-violent change and it goes without saying that I condemn any and all forms of violence, including the personal harassment of individuals. But, when we speak of violence, I should add here that months ago, during the Nevada campaign, shots were fired into my campaign office in Nevada and apartment housing complex my campaign staff lived in was broken into and ransacked.

“If the Democratic Party is to be successful in November, it is imperative that all state parties treat our campaign supporters with fairness and the respect that they have earned. I am happy to say that has been the case at state conventions in Maine, Alaska, Colorado and Hawaii where good discussions were held and democratic decisions were reached. Unfortunately, that was not the case at the Nevada convention. At that convention the Democratic leadership used its power to prevent a fair and transparent process from taking place. Among other things:

*The chair of the convention announced that the convention rules passed on voice vote, when the vote was a clear no-vote. At the very least, the Chair should have allowed for a headcount.

*The chair allowed its Credentials Committee to en mass rule that 64 delegates were ineligible without offering an opportunity for 58 of them to be heard. That decision enabled the Clinton campaign to end up with a 30-vote majority.

*The chair refused to acknowledge any motions made from the floor or allow votes on them.

*The chair refused to accept any petitions for amendments to the rules that were properly submitted.

“These are on top of failures at the precinct and county conventions including trying to depose and then threaten with arrest the Clark County convention credentials chair because she was operating too fairly.”
Click to expand...
 
T

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
EskimoJoe said:
Yeah, I'm still not gonna go so far as to get into calling this gamergate bullshit. That's still a bridge and a half too far for more. Nor am I certain that nothing wrong actually did happen to Sanders here. I haven't watched the videos, but I would buy that things happened as they claim, a priori. It's believable. But the situation spun out of control and it seems like only one camp is responsible for the escalation here. I expected a disowning. But whatever. I'm not too worked up about it, as Bernie lost this months ago and I think BernieOrBust will be irrelevant. Let's talk about something else. Where's that email server guy!?
Click to expand...

To be fair I'm talking both about the convention behavior but also very very much about the reports of phone harassment directed at people tangentially related to "the enemy" figures. That's honestly the larger story here to me
 
O

Orbis Tabula

Member
The Technomancer said:
To be fair I'm talking both about the convention behavior but also very very much about the reports of phone harassment directed at people tangentially related to "the enemy" figures. That's honestly the larger story here to me
Click to expand...

The phone harassment is unavoidably disgusting. Shameful behavior. I'm just still hesitant to apply the gamergate label. Perhaps irrationality, I admit.
 
U

User 463088

Banned
EskimoJoe said:
Yup. I mean, I hate to jump on the hate train, because if gets out of hand here sometimes, but this was an easy one. This is one of those instances where you swallow your pride and take your lumps, even if you think it's not your fault. Painting yourself as the victim here makes you look petty and dumb. He's making himself look stupid in order to contest a claim over 2 or 3 delegates and its simply not worth it.
Click to expand...

This is my thing as well. But, it goes back to something that has been clear for a while. Bernie cannot be wrong about anything. Some (some, not all!) of his supporters work from this perspective backwards. Bernie's policies are always 100% right for no reason other than he happens to hold them, facts be damned. He wasn't wrong about his Brady Bill votes. He wasn't wrong about his PLCAA vote. His campaign wasn't wrong for the email thing/the NV union thing/the fake endorsement things. His campaign exists in a world in which he can never, ever screw up about anything. Ever.

Hillary screwed up with Nancy Reagan and she fucking owned it. That's leadership. You take your lumps and you move on.
 
T

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
EskimoJoe said:
The phone harassment is unavoidably disgusting. Shameful behavior. I'm just still hesitant to apply the gamergate label. Perhaps irrationality, I admit.
Click to expand...

Like I said above, there can be absolutely no question about the difference in orders of magnitude. But from a tactical standpoint there's analogous strategy
 
D

Dan

No longer boycotting the Wolfenstein franchise
adam387 said:
The issue is not just this one specific instance, though. Every single time Bernie's campaign has done something wrong, there's always someone else at fault. It's never, ever Bernie's people. Ever. When they got caught accessing information they shouldn't have...well someone else must have done it too (even though there were no facts to support that.) Bernie's people sneak into place they're not supposed to be? Well...FRAUD!

It's tiring. He is not infallible. He is not perfect. He's a politician who is so far out of his depths its laughable.
Click to expand...
No means are out of bounds when you believe you're the country's progressive messiah.
 
B

Bowdz

Member
HUELEN10 said:
Why should there be any give when you are not responsible, even after you condemn the condemnable (which again, he should have done more of IMO)?
Click to expand...

Because if you are the leader of a so called movement, it is your responsibility to set the tone for your followers. If they demonstrate behavior that you don't like, even if they ardently support you, it is up to you to condemn their actions and set the bar for the rest of the movement. It is the reason we shit on Trump so much. He stokes the flames is discontent with minority groups and then acts surprised when there is violence in his name. What happened to the Bernie that was going to run a clean, issue oriented campaign?
 
A

ampere

Member
brainchild said:
There are victims on both sides here...
Click to expand...

Try to be objective. Some folks are receiving death threats, some folks think their voices votes weren't counted correctly over an irrelevantly minor margin of delegates

Think for a minute, then tell me "victims on both sides" again

Krauser Kat said:
I had my 30th birthday this past weekend and i wanted a pinata so i made a trump one.
iuvNXGz.png


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5s1JoR-pW8Q

It was a good day.
Click to expand...

Love it. Happy birthday
 
B

Box of Kittens

Banned
I mean "we condemn harassment but hey it's happening from both sides and we're the real victims and those people totally had it coming anyway" is pretty much textbook gamergate. Do I think Bernie Sanders is as bad as them? No. But his response to harassment is similarly terrible.

The Technomancer said:
Like I said above, there can be absolutely no question about the difference in orders of magnitude. But from a tactical standpoint there's analogous strategy
Click to expand...

Basically this.
 
W

Wilsongt

Member
I swear, all Hillary has had to do this entire election cycle is sit back and let all of her opponents eat themselves alive. The GOP destroyed themselves and now Sander's is doing the same.
 
O

Orbis Tabula

Member
adam387 said:
This is my thing as well. But, it goes back to something that has been clear for a while. Bernie cannot be wrong about anything. Some (some, not all!) of his supporters work from this perspective backwards. Bernie's policies are always 100% right for no reason other than he happens to hold them, facts be damned. He wasn't wrong about his Brady Bill votes. He wasn't wrong about his PLCAA vote. His campaign wasn't wrong for the email thing/the NV union thing/the fake endorsement things. His campaign exists in a world in which he can never, ever screw up about anything. Ever.

Hillary screwed up with Nancy Reagan and she fucking owned it. That's leadership. You take your lumps and you move on.
Click to expand...

I tend to try to resist getting into the sort of psychoanalyzing of candidates, with the whole "they're doing this because they think like this..." line of thinking, but it's hard not to see Sanders and be reminded of a few people I know who have been incapable of admitting when they're wrong. It's frustrating to see, and doubly frustrating when it's someone you agree with. Sometimes you have to be willing to take losses, even if you don't think it's fair, or you don't think the other person deserves the win, because it puts you in a better position later.
 
E

eBay Huckster

Member
his supporters are basically gamergate-esque paulites at this point, between the 50 kinds of concern trolling about "following the rules" when they've been all about gaming them for any perceived delegate advantage up until now and the constant and unending harassment and brigading of anyone who isn't "on their side"
 
HUELEN10

HUELEN10

Member
Bowdz said:
Because if you are the leader of a so called movement, it is your responsibility to set the tone for your followers.
Click to expand...

Sanders isn't the leader of the "we are gonna be rowdy shitty people at the DNC, regardless of reason" coalition, that's why. Shouldn't those people be the ones apologizing while he merely condemns those people at that thing that went too far?

And again, I repeat, Sanders should have done some more condemning.
 
V

VendettaRed07

Member
Speculation Time!

Had this primary been a two horse race, between Martin O'malley and Clinton, would he have collected more, less, or about the same amount of delegates as Bernie
 
B

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
chiym1992 said:
Erica Werner ‏@ericawerner 14m14 minutes ago
Reid says just spoke w sanders re violence at Nevada dem convention, expects sanders to speak out
Click to expand...

God, to be a fly on the wall...

NeoXChaos said:
CirhJEcWgAAjPwn.jpg:large
Click to expand...

He cannot be this stupid. He can't be this stupid, right?

Oh my god he's actually this fucking stupid. Well, so much for his committee chair. Harry Reid is going to eat his ass alive for this.

chiym1992 said:
I wanna be in the room where Harry Reid reads this
Click to expand...

Can I be in the room for this moment instead?

Wilsongt said:
I swear, all Hillary has had to do this entire election cycle is sit back and let all of her opponents eat themselves alive. The GOP destroyed themselves and now Sander's is doing the same.
Click to expand...

For once Clinton derangement syndrome is working in her favor. I guess the universe felt she was due.
 
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