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[Thequietone]

Why isn't California primary this week?😡

Because of snail mail. Already sent my vote in and my wife's. Two + votes for the Queen. That's why a California debate is useless...but whatever Sanders.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

1) I don't think it's unimportant that his comprehensive minority rights program only really materialized after Black Lives Matter stormed his stage and directly confronted him at multiple events. Nor did he seem to care about it enough to modulate his message and approach when it came to appealing directly to those voters.

I think Black Lives Matter ended up doing Sanders' campaign a world of good, and bluntly I think you're just wrong to say that he didn't modulate his message as a result.

2) "But he's not going to say that live on air" is not an excuse for his blatant dog-whistling. Sure, he has poor name-recognition among black people and he doesn't have the reach of Hillary Clinton (I'd argue all of these things are his own fault, but that's neither here nor there), and these may not be things he wants to publicly admit while competing against her. The point is there are plenty of ways he could address his deficiency with minority voters that doesn't lead to what many, many people have questioned as dog-whistle rhetoric. You can address your poor performance with certain segments of the electorate without maligning that group. This was a reality Hillary herself had to face early in the race when confronted about her poor performance with young voters. "Well, young people may not be for me. But I'm going to be for them." Boom. Easy. And I'll point out that every time Hillary has veered from that message and into a tone that is even slightly dismissive of young voters, she and her campaign have been rightly called out. Bernie doubles down.

You can't just double down on "it's dog-whistling" when it very clearly wasn't. Sanders has not maligned that group. He's done his best to address a message towards them. He could have done better of course, but the constant attempts to make Sanders out as some sort of closeted racist are pretty disgusting. Sanders has not, in any way, been dismissive of black voters. He went to the National Action Network Convention to give a 30-minute address. He dedicated a huge amount of effort to trying to meet with Black Lives Matter activists to try and modify his platform in a way suited to helping them best. He spent a lot of time on his HBCU tour and gave a passionate speech in the problems facing African Americans at Morehouse. I'm pretty disgusted by some of the assertions in this thread right now, to be honest.

 

[Y2Kev]

Crab, should Hillary pick Elizabeth Warren?

 

[AntraxSuicide]

Black voters know who Bernie Sanders is but they have KNOWN the Clintons for decades. 66% of Americans thought race relations were positive at the end of the Clinton presidency. It has dipped below 50%. They remember Bill Clinton. And Hillary doing all the right moves has maintained it but yes, there is definitely name recognition of the Clinton family. Stop denying this statement!

That's not nearly the same thing as what Crab is saying. And I still would say it's offensive, because you're implying that black people are voting on recognition over issues. This isn't the case. Black people wouldn't be rejecting Sanders this much if they actually aligned with his views. They don't. Calling black people "low information" or whatever dog whistle you'd prefer doesn't change that.

 

[Suikoguy]

I'm glad this happened. I had a problem with Salon for a long time, and now a lot of my friends are starting to agree with me.

It's frankly the second biggest surprise this primary behind the GOP nominating Trump.
So much of the "left wing" media has gone insane and is no longer based on reality.

It's depressing.

 

[Tamanon]

Remember how President Obama had to actually work to get the black vote? He had a little name recognition, but then put in the time and thought to reach out different communities. Basically, he had to sell that he would be a good advocate for the various segments.

Didn't just hire on a couple activists and call it a day.

 

[User 463088]

Black voters know who Bernie Sanders is but they have KNOWN the Clintons for decades. 66% of Americans thought race relations were positive at the end of the Clinton presidency. It has dipped below 50%. They remember Bill Clinton. And Hillary doing all the right moves has maintained it but yes, there is definitely name recognition of the Clinton family. Stop denying this statement!

What is even the point of this whole worthless discussion? To try to snag Sanders for dog whistling? Do you all seriously believe that?

No one is making that argument, though. In fact, the fact that the Clintons are known to the AA community is why that voting block has supported her. They know they've both been there, fighting the fight. There are deep connections. Preferring her over Sanders doesn't mean that they are ignorant or uninformed. Bernie just hasn't had a presence there.

I don't think Sanders has a racist bone in his body. I think he's tone deaf, though. I think he is incapable of taking criticism without double or tripling down. Because he acts as though he is incapable of being wrong, he had to find a reason to explain why he didn't do well in the south. He is incapable of looking internally for that. Everything is everyone else's fault. It's those damn conservative voters. It's that damn DWS. It's the fraud. And teh corruption. But it is never, ever, EVER the fault of Bernie Sanders.

 

[Armaros]

It's frankly the second biggest surprise this primary behind the GOP nominating Trump.
So much of the "left wing" media has gone insane and is no longer based on reality.

It's depressing.

It was easy to hide when they had crazy GOP to attack and they didnt dare go crazy vs Obama like they did with Hillary because they had no other candidate to back.
And Obama is too popular.

 

[AntraxSuicide]

I think Black Lives Matter ended up doing Sanders' campaign a world of good, and bluntly I think you're just wrong to say that he didn't modulate his message as a result.



You can't just double down on "it's dog-whistling" when it very clearly wasn't. Sanders has not maligned that group. He's done his best to address a message towards them. He could have done better of course, but the constant attempts to make Sanders out as some sort of closeted racist are pretty disgusting. Sanders has not, in any way, been dismissive of black voters. He went to the National Action Network Convention to give a 30-minute address. He dedicated a huge amount of effort to trying to meet with Black Lives Matter activists to try and modify his platform in a way suited to helping them best. He spent a lot of time on his HBCU tour and gave a passionate speech in the problems facing African Americans at Morehouse. I'm pretty disgusted by some of the assertions in this thread right now, to be honest.

I'm disgusted that you still haven't walked back your "Black people aren't rejecting his platform, they just don't know him!" line. You've got people like Crocodile making great points too that you just keep ignoring because you'd have to address your problematic statement.

Stop saying black people don't know who they're voting for, or don't know enough to pick another candidate. They know him, and chose his opponent. Full stop.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

Cab, should Hillary pick Elizabeth Warren?

I don't think so. She's doing well where she is, and more strength to her. I also don't think an all-white ticket is the best way to go, particularly after Obama; there needs to be a commitment to the idea that wasn't a one off and that there is room for minorities in Democratic politics. I'm not sure who I would pick. I don't think "rising star" is a good idea because it seems at face value unlikely the Democratic party can manage four consecutive terms and being attached to a one-term president doesn't do much for your career. I'd guess someone with a bit of experience, ideally from a swing state. Marcia Fudge might be a nice outside option.

 

[Thequietone]

Sanders has definitely dog whistled

But he was clearly joking. How could the perfect Sanders possibly be racist. MLK marched with Sanders after all.

Wasn't he giving that speech at a college? I'm pretty sure he just said that as a joke about students being smart. It wasn't meant to be "black people are dumb, you're a white state, you'll vote for me."

It was a stupid joke and bad optics at best. Dog whistling at worst.

To a crowd that contained a large number of Sanders' own minority supporters. Yes, calling your own supporters smart is clearly much dog-whistling, you should obviously call them stupid, how could I not see that.

Still bad optics. You don't call voters stupid because they didn't vote for you. Joke or not.

 

[BotoxAgent]

Remember how President Obama had to actually work to get the black vote? He had a little name recognition, but then put in the time and thought to reach out different communities. Basically, he had to sell that he would be a good advocate for the various segments.

Didn't just hire on a couple activists and call it a day.

Not to mention Sanders criticizing Obamas policies as not good enough--I mean I get where he's coming from but a lot of minorities approve the job obama is doing. Distancing yourself from Obama ain't gonna help make inroads with them

 

[eBay Huckster]

Marcia Fudge might be a nice outside option.

y'all can't have her

 

[JP_]

He is losing among the post-college educated, the very poor and the older.

That poll shows that with people under 36, he's supported by people at all levels of education. IIRC, education level differences were only significant early in the race and it's evened out -- I can't find numbers though. Do you have any up to date national demographic numbers for education/income levels? Either aggregate exit polls or opinion polls.

Age seems to be the biggest schism, but there are other trends, especially on race -- I'd love to see a discussion on why the race divide is specifically so much stronger for people over 36. Or is it just "young people are ignorant"?

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

-If there were a video from the Clinton side of the room, it would sound like she won. Microphones are going to make people with 15 feet sound a lot louder than everyone else.

-The schedule didn't work against Bernie. He'd be behind most of the time with any random distribution of states. He's lost more, and when he's lost it was by larger numbers of delegates. He'll soon lose California as well. He's lost red states, he's lost blue states, but most importantly, he's lost bigger states by wider margins, and won smaller states by (mostly) smaller margins. There is not schedule that helps him, short of taking all his wins and putting them first, and even then the South, MD, NY wipe that lead out the second they come around.

I'm late, but that rundown of how Bernie slowly pissed away my good will toward him was excellent. I wasn't that upset about the data breach, although I thought he handled it poorly. I was pissed about PP. But then went he started attacking other progressives he lost me completely. I don't generally like negative campaigning, and went he went full bore on it rather than addressing the weaknesses in his candidacy, he lost even my protest vote in the primary in favor of his issues.

 

[Box of Kittens]

Black voters know who Bernie Sanders is but they have KNOWN the Clintons for decades. 66% of Americans thought race relations were positive at the end of the Clinton presidency. It has dipped below 50%. They remember Bill Clinton. And Hillary doing all the right moves has maintained it but yes, there is definitely name recognition of the Clinton family. Stop denying this statement!

What is even the point of this whole worthless discussion? To try to snag Sanders for dog whistling? Do you all seriously believe that?

It's not just name recognition though. It's a failure on the Sanders campaign's part to come up with a message that resonates and to convince voters that he truly understands their concerns.

 

[Armaros]

That poll shows that with people under 36, he's supported by people at all levels of education. IIRC, education level differences were only significant early in the race and it's evened out -- I can't find numbers though. Do you have any up to date national demographic numbers for education/income levels?

Age seems to be the biggest schism, but there are other trends, especially on race -- I'd love to see a discussion on why the race divide is specifically so much stronger for people over 36. Or is it just "young people are ignorant"?

Votes show she won the post grads, the very poor and the older.

I'll take votes over polls. Look up the NY primary demographics breakdown.

 

[royalan]

You can't just double down on "it's dog-whistling" when it very clearly wasn't. Sanders has not maligned that group. He's done his best to address a message towards them. He could have done better of course, but the constant attempts to make Sanders out as some sort of closeted racist are pretty disgusting. Sanders has not, in any way, been dismissive of black voters. He went to the National Action Network Convention to give a 30-minute address. He dedicated a huge amount of effort to trying to meet with Black Lives Matter activists to try and modify his platform in a way suited to helping them best. He spent a lot of time on his HBCU tour and gave a passionate speech in the problems facing African Americans at Morehouse. I'm pretty disgusted by some of the assertions in this thread right now, to be honest.

It's not just me anymore. Multiple posters in this thread have chimed in to agree that Bernie Sanders' comments on his losses in the South have been problematic at best, and blatant dog-whistling at worst. And it's not just this thread; it's a common perception of his words. And I will continue to double-down on it as such, and if you have a problem with that, then let me remind you that you are not obligated to respond to my posts.

I also never said that Bernie is a closeted racist. I do believe that he doesn't have the experience or the understanding of the black community that his supporters like to argue that he does, I take offense to the assertion that I should give him a pass. I also don't give a shit what speech he gave or how any HBCU's he spoke at. Black people are more than a little used to white politicians paying lip service come election time. This is another reason why Hillary has gotten the support that Bernie has not. If anything this is a stronger indictment of Bernie Sanders' rhetoric. Because he if really cared about that outreach he did to the black community, if he really listened, then it should be obvious to him why his words on the South are problematic. The black voices inside and outside of the party calling for him to tone it down should resonate with him. Instead he doubles down.

 

[excelsiorlef]

Because he genuinely prefers Clinton to Trump? Come on, he's always worked closely with the Democratic Party and opposed the Republicans. His policy platform is obviously much closer to Clinton than Trump, and he consistently talks about how awful Trump is - he attacks Trump much more strongly than he ever does Clinton. Regardless of what else you think of Sanders, he is a man of principle and has a long career that attests to that. He's not going to risk a Trump win.

Is that why he falsely accused Roberta Lange of stealing the election from him and acting in massively fraudulent ways in a statement that should have been about speaking out against the harassment she's received.

Is that what a man of principle does?

 

[Beer Monkey]

Why am I supposed to care about a poll of people who don't vote?

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

He could have done better of course, but the constant attempts to make Sanders out as some sort of closeted racist are pretty disgusting. Sanders has not, in any way, been dismissive of black voters. He went to the National Action Network Convention to give a 30-minute address. He dedicated a huge amount of effort to trying to meet with Black Lives Matter activists to try and modify his platform in a way suited to helping them best. He spent a lot of time on his HBCU tour and gave a passionate speech in the problems facing African Americans at Morehouse. I'm pretty disgusted by some of the assertions in this thread right now, to be honest.

Re:the bold, I agree, he's not racist. Do you find the attempts to paint Clinton as a closet racist just as disgusting? Because they are all over the place in pro-Bernie articles.

As far as the rest, I think it's a matter of too little and too late, and pandering. He hasn't reached out the way Clinton has, and he doesn't highlight racial Justice is his speeches or platform as effectively as Clinton does. He's seen as playing catch-up, and rightly so.

 

[Y2Kev]

Is that why he falsely accused Roberta Lange of stealing the election from him and acting in massively fraudulent ways in a statement that should have been about speaking out against the harassment she's received.

Is that what a man of principle does?

I don't think he actually did that.

 

[JP_]

Votes show she won the post grads, the very poor and the older.

I'll take votes over polls.

You're referring to exit polls, which can vary state to state. In some states like Wisconsin, he wins with post-grads. Like I said, what you claim was true early on but IIRC the education level differences have mostly evened out after the early states and I'd like to see numbers to confirm either way.

 

[Cesare Borgia]

Remember how President Obama had to actually work to get the black vote? He had a little name recognition, but then put in the time and thought to reach out different communities. Basically, he had to sell that he would be a good advocate for the various segments.

Didn't just hire on a couple activists and call it a day.

John Edwards did the same, as well as Hillary (but of course she was already well liked within that community). As far back as late 2005 all three candidates were laying the groundwork for contesting the black vote. It's no different than contesting for the Evangelical vote in a republican primary. Winning either the GOP or democrat nom requires you to do well in the south.

Martin O'Malley began some African American outreach early. I'm sorry but trotting out three black surrogates, one of whom has called the first black president the n-word (and not in a nice way), is not a form of "black outreach." It's the type of thing republicans do (see: Palin, Michael Steel, etc).

Winning the black vote was never a guarantee for Obama. There has always been a level of tension between the old guard of black politics (first and second generation Civil Rights Movement candidates) and newer/young black candidates. If you've seen Street Fight you know what Cory Booker had to deal with in terms of accusations about not being black enough, being too smart, having too many suburban (or Jewish) connections, etc. Obama dealt with all that for years in Chicago and the issue returned as he geared up to run. A publicly reported example was the initial tension between Obama and Detroit's former mayor Kwame Kilpatrick. I remember Kilpatrick insinuating Obama's blackness was somehow in question.

TLDR black people aren't stupid and winning the black vote has always been a complex issue/battle. But one way you don't win the black vote is by insulting them, which is what Sanders' supporters did for months before moving on ("the south doesn't matter").

 

[Spoiled Milk]

No one is making that argument, though. In fact, the fact that the Clintons are known to the AA community is why that voting block has supported her. They know they've both been there, fighting the fight. There are deep connections. Preferring her over Sanders doesn't mean that they are ignorant or uninformed. Bernie just hasn't had a presence there.

I don't think Sanders has a racist bone in his body. I think he's tone deaf, though. I think he is incapable of taking criticism without double or tripling down. Because he acts as though he is incapable of being wrong, he had to find a reason to explain why he didn't do well in the south. He is incapable of looking internally for that. Everything is everyone else's fault. It's those damn conservative voters. It's that damn DWS. It's the fraud. And teh corruption. But it is never, ever, EVER the fault of Bernie Sanders.

[Hey Adam, I want you to know I've always appreciated your tenor in this thread and I think you've always been candid.]

People in this thread have been making this argument. Crab used the phrase name recognition and now people are jumping down his throat because it's a dog-whistle, conjured from an invisible warrant. If half the criticism of Bernie Sanders' language (not his policies, he deserves every bit of criticism there) was used against Hillary Clinton then... Actually, it is! All the time! And it sucks and I hate it! Honestly, this kind of discussion is really pointless.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

B) Why is it always our fucking fault for being idiots and never Sanders fault for never engaging in the Black community before his run, even in his home state if the Vermont State leaders are correct, or choosing the worst Black surrogates possible or having a campaign message that is so laser focused for so much of the time on economics above all else or wanting to primary or move away from the policies (in spirit at least) of the SUPER POPULAR among Black people sitting president, etc? Adults take responsibility for their shortcoming - why is Sanders so bad at doing so? Even if you want to argue "he has to spin it because he's losing" he's doing a bad job at spinning because he keeps stepping on toes when he does it.

This is a strawman. Neither Sanders, nor I, have *ever* said black voters are idiots. Ever. Sanders did engage with the Vermont black community. There's quite a good article on this here: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/liam-miller/african-american-leaders-in-vermont_b_9300672.html

Patrick Brown, executive director of the Greater Burlington Multicultural Resource Center, has this to say about Bernie Sanders: “We are all so proud of him.”

Brown has been organizing Martin Luther King, Jr. Day events since the early 90s; speakers have included Archbishop Desmond Tutu, Anita Hill, and the Rev. Al Sharpton. According to Brown, Sanders is a regular participant, introduced Anita Hill when she spoke, and received an award from Rev. Sharpton.

Oddly enough, Brown’s words appear in a recent piece attacking Sanders, that said Vermont’s black leaders found they were invisible to him. The premise is strikingly at odds with Bown’s account - which, ironically, is buried more than 650 words into the piece. Before his words in praise of Sanders appear, however, three other individuals critical of Sanders are quoted. While Brown’s active status as a black leader in Vermont is inarguable, the others aren’t so clear; they include a lawyer for an international finance and aerospace corporation; the founder of an organization that Bizapedia lists as ‘inactive’; and the executive director of an organization based 150 miles from Burlington, who seems also to be its lone member.

It gets weirder, though. The ‘inactive’ organization, the African American Alliance of the Northeast Kingdom, appears in one other website apart from the Bizapedia listing: across the top of a page on a libertarian website, whose sole content is a link to a rough paraphrase of the original article. The paraphrase, titled “Black Leaders Skewer Sanders: He’s Neglected Us”, does not include Brown’s praise for Sanders. The name of the inactive organization is extremely prominent; the name of the libertarian website it appears on it is far smaller, and is easily missed (see image).

Then again, maybe it’s all just poor formatting, that coincidentally supports a blatantly false narrative about a Presidential candidate’s relationship with the black community in his home state, right before the first predominately African American primary takes place.

(cut down to selected parts, but you can read the article in full).

I also think it's pretty insulting to suggest people like Nina Turner are bad surrogates without supporting your statement.

Sanders' campaign focus has been on the economic issues because, bluntly speaking, they're what you need to build the cross-sectional coalition that wins elections. There are poor black people and poor white people; it's an issue that should cross the racial divide. However, he has put out a comprehensive list of racial rights reforms, one that Campaign Zero considers more complete than Clinton's.

Wanting to primary Obama had nothing to do with Obama's race. Sanders suggested it in 2011 immediately after Obama proposed a cut to Social Security, and for that reason. Heck, Sanders stumped for Obama against Clinton in '08, and endorsed Jesse Jackson in both runs and ensured that Vermont was one of the few states to vote for Jackson.

 

[Armaros]

Putting a list of Racial reforms on a website and only speaking about it when directly pushed is the definiton of pandering. And his pivots to economic positions when broached on those topics do not help at all.

A few pundits put it best, Hillary would gets skewered if she put out the same type of answers to specific Questions like Bernie. Or Pivotrd like Bernie.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

I'm disgusted that you still haven't walked back your "Black people aren't rejecting his platform, they just don't know him!" line. You've got people like Crocodile making great points too that you just keep ignoring because you'd have to address your problematic statement.

I'm not ignoring it. There are many of you, and only one of me, and I'm relatively busy, so I will work my way through each of your statements as and when I can.

At the time of the Southern primaries, Sanders' name recognition was about ~67% among minority voters. That's literally just name recognition, implying that a further proportion might have known him only as "oh, that guy from Vermont? Yeah, I've heard a bit about him". I think it's pretty unreasonable to suggest that Sanders hasn't struggled from lack of awareness amongst black voters; while he still loses to Clinton among the subsample of minority voters aware of both, it was a much closer affair.

Some of that blame is on Sanders. You're right he never built a national profile as someone committed to the black American community, although in some fairness he never built a national profile at all (his name recognition was at about 4% in the polls from when he declared candidacy). However, the disparity between awareness of Sanders in the black American community and among other voters (including Hispanic ones, actually), despite some genuine effort from the Sanders campaign that involved a lot of outreach to #BLM, indicates that a larger problem is a structural one that Sanders has less control over - especially given the absolutely stark difference between younger and older black voters.

This isn't saying that all black voters would have flocked to the Sanders banner had this been different. Firstly, it would be grossly insulting to treat the black vote as homogeneous to begin with, secondly, Clinton's platform obviously has appeal in and of itself, and thirdly, a world in which these structural barriers did not exist would look so different it would be very difficult to make any certain statement anyway. However, it is at least plausible to suppose that he would have done better among black voters, and given the way that primarily black primaries were front-loaded and shaped the narrative of the race, Sanders doing somewhat better would have been enough to change the tone and scale of the outcome if not the eventual winner.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

y'all can't have her

With those Ohio polls, we might need her. :x

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

If Bernie carried hot sauce in his purse he would not have this issue.

Spoiler

The idea that hot sauce is pandering has really pissed me off, and is almost literally the "look at that bitching eating crackers" meme come to life.

 

[User 463088]

[Hey Adam, I want you to know I've always appreciated your tenor in this thread and I think you've always been candid.]

People in this thread have been making this argument. Crab used the phrase name recognition and now people are jumping down his throat because it's a dog-whistle, conjured from an invisible warrant. If half the criticism of Bernie Sanders' language (not his policies, he deserves every bit of criticism there) was used against Hillary Clinton then... Actually, it is! All the time! And it sucks and I hate it! Honestly, this kind of discussion is really pointless.

I don't think people are jumping down Crab's throat because of the name recognition line. I think it was some of the other arguments put forward that people had issue with. That's just my take on it, though. Even if people only voted for Queen because they recognized her name, that's a failure of the Bernie campaign.

 

[royalan]

If Bernie carried hot sauce in his purse he would not have this issue.

Spoiler

The idea that hot sauce is pandering has really pissed me off, and is almost literally the "look at that bitching eating crackers" meme come to life.

Lord the arguments I got into with irl friends over that as crazy.

The crux of the argument seemed to be, "Ok ok...well turns out she was telling the truth. STILL, she should have lied because her actually carrying hot sauce in her bag doesn't fit the idea of Hillary Clinton I have in my mind."

 

[eBay Huckster]

With those Ohio polls, we might need her. :x

those ohio polls with clinton up 5 points?

 

[SirClinksAlot]

This primary really needs to be fucking over. I am so sick of it and Bernie.

 

[eBay Huckster]

speaking of current polls, sam wang has another article out about them

 

[Deleted member 231381]

It's not just me anymore. Multiple posters in this thread have chimed in to agree that Bernie Sanders' comments on his losses in the South have been problematic at best, and blatant dog-whistling at worst. And it's not just this thread; it's a common perception of his words. And I will continue to double-down on it as such, and if you have a problem with that, then let me remind you that you are not obligated to respond to my posts.

With respect, this thread is not particularly reflective of either Democratic support in general, Sanders supporters in general, or any particular demographic in general other than PoliGAF posters. Given the Clinton bent in here, it is hardly surprising that there are a number of people ready to see the worst in Sanders regardless of the occasion.

If you want me to ignore your posts, I'm quite happy to, but this conversation largely started as a result of you asking me a question about why I was so confident that Sanders would bend the knee. It seems unfair for you to ask me a question, deny my answer, and then claim I ought not to respond to your denial of my answer. That's not a conversation. Beyond that, if I fail to reply, posters accuse me of ignoring people. You can see that there's not exactly a winning hand for me here.

I also never said that Bernie is a closeted racist. I do believe that he doesn't have the experience or the understanding of the black community that his supporters like to argue that he does, I take offense to the assertion that I should give him a pass. I also don't give a shit what speech he gave or how any HBCU's he spoke at. Black people are more than a little used to white politicians paying lip service come election time. This is another reason why Hillary has gotten the support that Bernie has not. If anything this is a stronger indictment of Bernie Sanders' rhetoric. Because he if really cared about that outreach he did to the black community, if he really listened, then it should be obvious to him why his words on the South are problematic. The black voices inside and outside of the party calling for him to tone it down should resonate with him. Instead he doubles down.

This is a shift of the goalposts. I agree Sanders' experience and understanding of the black community are limited. I don't think he should be given a pass over this. Neither of these statements are sufficient to show that he used dog-whistles. He did not. Beyond that, black voices (obviously) do not all agree with one another. There are a significant number of black voters who do still support Sanders; I'd rather he listened to their advice on outreach than that of those backing Clinton who obviously have the potential for conflict of interest.

 

[User 463088]

those ohio polls with clinton up 5 points?

Also, I' not sure she's really that popular around the state really. I'm not sure she has that type of pull. Maybe I'm misreading Ohio, though?

 

[eBay Huckster]

maybe we're all misreading ohio and it'll vote for

Spoiler

jill stein

 

[Deleted member 231381]

those ohio polls with clinton up 5 points?

RCP average is 3.0; I'd rather like to be more comfortable than that. Besides, Marcia Fudge could do good work on the national stage.

 

[eBay Huckster]

rcp can fight me

e: like, actually. they haven't posted the yougov poll and i can personally guarantee that q poll isn't accurate

 

[Y2Kev]

I think we need a man unfortunately. I think all white is a bad idea and probably so is all female. Though I do like the potential for a woman to throw Trump's shit back in his face.

 

[User 463088]

rcp can fight me

RCP like:

 

[VendettaRed07]

If Bernie carried hot sauce in his purse he would not have this issue.

Spoiler

The idea that hot sauce is pandering has really pissed me off, and is almost literally the "look at that bitching eating crackers" meme come to life.

She should have just doubled down and said it was true, the "is it working?" comment was kind of awkward.

But I don't get how Bernie was never accused of pandering when he was using a guy who went by the name of Killer Mike as his own personal hype man for half of the primary. He would not have given him the time of day had he not been losing black voters by such huge margins. And I don't think its a coincidence we haven't heard anything from him now that Bernie has moved on from the southern states.

 

[Holmes]

The end of the FBI investigation on Clinton:

 

[User 463088]

The end of the FBI investigation on Clinton:

Did something happen that I didn't hear about?

 

[Aaron Strife]

Lord the arguments I got into with irl friends over that as crazy.

The crux of the argument seemed to be, "Ok ok...well turns out she was telling the truth. STILL, she should have lied because her actually carrying hot sauce in her bag doesn't fit the idea of Hillary Clinton I have in my mind."

Lol what the hell?

"I don't trust Hillary Clinton. She should have lied!"

I hate people.

 

[eBay Huckster]

on a side note, my favorite thing about this cycle is gonna be the dozen facebook posts i'll see from people kvetching about how close the polls are every day for the next two-odd months

 

[excelsiorlef]

I don't think he actually did that.

He did exactly that. A bulk of his statement that he made, after walking away from a question about it at a press conference in Puerto Rico, which ostensibly should have been about condemning harassment was about all the ways the woman being harassed "screwed over" his campaign:

The chair of the convention announced that the convention rules passed on voice vote, when the vote was a clear no-vote. At the very least, the Chair should have allowed for a headcount.

The chair allowed its Credentials Committee to en mass rule that 64 delegates were ineligible without offering an opportunity for 58 of them to be heard. That decision enabled the Clinton campaign to end up with a 30-vote majority.

The chair refused to acknowledge any motions made from the floor or allow votes on them.
The chair refused to accept any petitions for amendments to the rules that were properly submitted.

The bolded 100% blames her for Clinton having a majority of the delegates.

In a statement that should have been about harassment and violence he spent more time directly attacking the victim of it and frankly implying she deserved it.

 

[Aaron Strife]

on a side note, my favorite thing about this cycle is gonna be the dozen facebook posts i'll see from people kvetching about how close the polls are every day for the next two-odd months

I wonder if Trump bragging about modest leads in states like Georgia will translate to similarly hilarious diablosing on the left.

"Clinton is losing GEORGIA! Everyone run for cover!"

 

[Suikoguy]

The bolded 100% blames her for Clinton having a majority of the delegates.

In a statement that should have been about harassment and violence he spent more time directly attacking the victim of it and frankly implying she deserved it.

How could they be heard if they were not even there?
Sanders is such a mess.