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[Paskil]

I forgot but was just reminded that we'll have to recast all of our absentee ballots on Tuesday. I hope there aren't a ton. The bar code on the ballots is printed incorrectly. At the Spring Primary, we had around 115 absentee ballots in two separate batches. Just casting those ballots is time consuming, much less remaking them and then casting them.

Turnout is expected to be around 15% last I saw, sadly.

 

[B-Dubs]

Because it was a vector to attack Hillary

No really

that's it

If you don't live here you can't quite realize just how much they've hated her for decades

Well, also Obama. They figured why not get a 2-for-1 out of it.

 

[Oblivion]

Maybe this has been posted already and I missed it.

But if not, I'm surprised poligay.

Spoiler

This is Hill and Bill's nephew.

His name is.

Tyler.

Not gay, but damn, that dude has an incredible physique.

 

[Paskil]

Well, also Obama. They figured why not get a 2-for-1 out of it.

More like a threefer if you toss in Islam.

 

[hawk2025]

Because it was a vector to attack Hillary

No really

that's it

If you don't live here you can't quite realize just how much they've hated her for decades

After Bin Laden was killed, Republicans were utterly fucked by the perception that Obama and Clinton were successful in home security.

They picked up the very next thing, and are hanging on to it to dear life to construct a narrative.

Facts be damned, logic be damned. They are riding it and will keep riding it to their bitter end.

 

[pigeon]

I have question for all of you.
Being a Dane, with a lot of close family in the U.S, I feel invested in your general election, in a way many of my countrymen do not.

My question is this:

Why it is of such great importance to the republicans, whether it was a YouTube video or a non-videorelated violent protest, that resulted in the Benghazi outpost assault?

The technomancer is correct but I wanted to expand on this because I am a little embarrassed for my country as to how dumb the answer to this question is.

Immediately after the Benghazi attack there were some reports that the attack was linked to a specific anti-Muslim YouTube video. Some government statements slightly alluded to this possibility.

This was taken by the reactionary news network and spun into refusing to call it terrorism and apologizing for America, to the degree that Mitt Romney made a false claim in one of the debates based on Fox News reporting about it.

Because it was part of the original Benghazi reactionary spin, it ended up being imbedded into a lot of the conspiracy narratives about the event.

 

[sc0la]

The technomancer is correct but I wanted to expand on this because I am a little embarrassed for my country as to how dumb the answer to this question is.

Immediately after the Benghazi attack there were some reports that the attack was linked to a specific anti-Muslim YouTube video. Some government statements slightly alluded to this possibility.

This was taken by the reactionary news network and spun into refusing to call it terrorism and apologizing for America, to the degree that Mitt Romney made a false claim in one of the debates based on Fox News reporting about it.

Because it was part of the original Benghazi reactionary spin, it ended up being imbedded into a lot of the conspiracy narratives about the event.

True, it is imbeded in the conspiracy but the only reason the conspiracy lives on is to shit on Clinton. If some how Bernie or another non Biden candidate ended up the nominee they would would have stopped giving two shits about Benghazi.

 

[Sianos]

I have question for all of you.
Being a Dane, with a lot of close family in the U.S, I feel invested in your general election, in a way many of my countrymen do not.

My question is this:

Why it is of such great importance to the republicans, whether it was a YouTube video or a non-videorelated violent protest, that resulted in the Benghazi outpost assault?

"Hillary said a YouTube video did Benghazi" - its one of those phrases that really demonstrates a lot about the speaker. I think it was Hannity who dropped that wonderful gem first?

Apparently, the party that complains about people speaking Spanish are ironically poor at understanding English themselves. Hillary presented the motive that current intelligence demonstrated as the motivation for the terrorists to commit that act of terror and thus become terrorists and somehow that is equivalent to downplaying the attack. Because apparently Republicans fail to understand that terrorists have motivations for committing terrorism, motivations that it would be useful to understand - and understanding their motivation is in no way condoning it. This is what happens when the only way you communicate about a nuanced subject is to play semantic games and scream the phonemes "RADICAL ISLAMIC TERRORISM" as opposed to having meaningful discussion.

Republicans fail to understand that a terrorist attack in response to an anti-Islsmic video is still blatantly terrorism. They could have spun it into Muslims attacking the freedom of speech, but no: instead the go for the dreadfully stupid accusation of "Hillary said a video did Benghazi!!"

 

[B-Dubs]

True, it is imbeded in the conspiracy but the only reason the conspiracy lives on is to shit on Clinton. If some how Bernie or another non Biden candidate ended up the nominee they would would have stopped giving two shits about Benghazi.

Had Biden run and won they would have shifted it over to him, since he was part of the administration.

 

[andthebeatgoeson]

https://twitter.com/DrJillStein/status/761713195702595584



Oh, you !

I hope he shows up.

 

[Effect]

Been away from news for majority of the day and it was good. Good to finally have a day to not have my anxiety skyrocket. However as soon as I come back to read today I see the thing below. The 4 chan image.

So outside of that anything major happen today that should get one worried? Also the thing below have they made up stuff like this before?

It's 4chan. The one place on the internet more toxic and full of trolls than r/TheDonald.

 

[AntraxSuicide]

I'm with you two. Why the fuck is there any devil's advocacy for the candidate that espouses an American brand of fascism and white nationalism? He's not a serious political alternative. He's an existential threat to democracy and the security of billions of people. How the fuck does anything else he has to say matter? Am I taking crazy pills??

Yeah, pigeon, you have my bow.

People arguing against this are no different from cowards like Paul Ryan who probably aren't racists but don't really care to ever criticize racists. These people are totally cool with racists in the same way I'm cool with the dishes in my sink right now; I'd love it if they weren't dirty, but damned if I do anything to change that situation.

If we aren't willing to call out racists as unacceptable, then we've decided that we agree with the Southern Strategy. I reject this entirely as morally reprehensible.

 

[jevity]

Thank you for all the answers :0)

 

[sc0la]

wait wait wait. so the IS a video of the Iran payment. After trump said he saw one, swore it was real, then had to walk it back because he was talking about the other one?

lmao

Had Biden run and won they would have shifted it over to him, since he was part of the administration.

thats why I said non Biden candidate. though I should have used a dash properly, non-Biden

 

[mo60]

Been away from news for majority of the day and it was good. Good to finally have a day to not have my anxiety skyrocket. However as soon as I come back to read today I see the thing below.

So outside of that anything major happen today that should get one worried? Also the thing below have they made up stuff like this before?

Besides trump pissing off somali immigrants with some of the stuff he said about them yesterday at his portland maine rally nothing major happened.There was a protest earlier today were they were protesting against him because of those comments.

 

[Paskil]

wait wait wait. so the IS a video of the Iran payment. After trump said he saw one, swore it was real, then had to walk it back because he was talking about the other one?

lmao



thats why I said non Biden candidate. though I should have used a dash properly, non-Biden

I don't think anyone truly knows what happened. No one can know what is going on in the mind of a Donald Trump. Sometimes, I speculate there is nothing going on and he's just responding to external stimuli. Kind of like a giant, roving sea cucumber.

 

[Box of Kittens]

I think my big disagreement is with the notion that trying to convert Trump supporters is a realistic goal. I think it's better not to normalize his views and rhetoric than to try and change a mind that's most likely made up.

 

[User 463088]

Seriously, this is bullshit.

I gave up. I switched to the BBC. I paused it like four times, and we still finished the entire thing (including the parade of nations) before NBC was done.

There is no excuse for what they're pulling in 2016.

Anyway, watching Trump do this endorsement is physically painful. I mean, this is pitiful. He even did that "Fuck you, I did this" cheeky grin.

 

[AntraxSuicide]

I think my big disagreement is with the notion that trying to convert Trump supporters is a realistic goal. I think it's better not to normalize his views and rhetoric than to try and change a mind that's most likely made up.

Yeah, you don't convert these people. Robert Byrd was a huge outlier; more racists are people like my father-in-law who freely admits to being racist and believes we're in the midst of a culture war (in a way, he's right, but it's not "Brown people vs white people" but "Racists vs non-racists"). The goal is to make it so that he feels he can't express his views, and then his views die out (my wife and sister-in-law didn't even know he was a racist until they got to college and he got divorced; my mother-in-law was apparently keeping that aspect of him in check).

You age out racism through shame, not by hugging racists into suddenly liking Muslims.

 

[Spider from Mars]

Met Timmy K at the opening of a local office in the city before his speech and the dude is a ball of sunshine.

 

[johnsmith]

Is Trump's strategy is just to have rallies and leave? If he does not have much of a campaign then it means he literally has little idea of how he is actually faring besides polling. I guess if he does have bad polling in one state, he'll go there and do rallies to get support. It is largely complete waste of time though, if that is the case; because only his supporters go there and he doesn't say anything different.

Yes. That's literally his strategy. He doesn't even have staff in a lot (most?) battleground states.

I can't find it but there was an article a few months ago talking about how he doesn't think he needs GOTV because he can just hold rallies and appear on tv whenever he wants.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

I'm not in the best spot today today to argue with Pigeon (on mobile travelling) but I think we're more arguing a matter of degree and approach and not one of a policy of tolerating racism. I don't make the leap that any Trump supporter is automatically racist, and if their priorities are so fucked up that they ignore Trump's racism you work on the priorities. Pigeon kinda went 0 to 60, which was why my reaction. It gave little room for Lensar to come around to any realization. Fine if you assume he's a closet racist and that's why he likes Trump, not fine if it's a guy just getting out of a bubble and needs perspective. It would not surprise me if he were very young. I think it's worth trying, which is why I suggested genuinely curious questions. Even if he is a closet racist you can learn from that, or expose it and then go on blast.

 

[Bonen no Max'd]

Do the presidential debates get legit streams when they happen or do I need to look into getting local TV channels if I want to watch them live?

 

[watershed]

Do the presidential debates get legit streams when they happen or do I need to look into getting local TV channels if I want to watch them live?

They're online too. At least I watched them online in 2012.

 

[User 463088]

I'm not in the best spot today today to argue with Pigeon (on mobile travelling) but I think we're more arguing a matter of degree and approach and not one of a policy of tolerating racism. I don't make the leap that any Trump supporter is automatically racist, and if their priorities are so fucked up that they ignore Trump's racism you work on the priorities. Pigeon kinda went 0 to 60, which was why my reaction. It gave little room for Lensar to come around to any realization. Fine if you assume he's a closet racist and that's why he likes Trump, not fine if it's a guy just getting out of a bubble and needs perspective. It would not surprise me if he were very young. I think it's worth trying, which is why I suggested genuinely curious questions. Even if he is a closet racist you can learn from that, or expose it and then go on blast.

I'm going to jump off this post if you don't mind to kind of explain what my thought process is. (And it's in no way directed at pigeon, btw. My whole focus on this issue was that I agreed with what Hillary said earlier today, and I think it's the right way to approach this).

I'm not willing to say that every person who votes for Trump is a racist, homophobic, misogynistic, Islamophobe. A lot of them are. Hell, probably a majority. These people are unreachable. Shaming them serves no purpose other than making them shut up...which, again, I don't have a problem with.

My issue is if we approach everyone who says "I'm going to vote for Trump" with "You're a white nationalist, you know that, right?" Boom. Conversation closed. Our response should be "Why do you support Trump?" Maybe it's because the person is pro-life, and they feel the GOP ticket is their only choice. Maybe it's because they're worried about their economic status and feel he can bring them jobs. Maybe it's because they're scared about terrorism.

While their support for Trump DOES mean they're either ambivalent, supportive or unaware of Trump's ignorance and hatred, I still feel there's utility in engaging with them. Maybe these people aren't winnable...but ther are arguments we can put forward that show our candidates strengths while illustrating Trump's weaknesses on all of these issues. And then, yes, by the way...he's a racist. Are you okay with that? We might not win anyone, but we might make some of them think for just a second. And then, next time, maybe they're a little bit more receptive.

No one is calling to tolerate or entertain racists. No one is saying their voice is worthy of anything other than immediate derision and shaming to whatever degree. And, yes, I believe Trump is a white nationalist and anyone who supports him is enabling that. So, there's even more incentive to try and win people over. And if we can't? Shame the hell out of them.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

Yup, pretty much that.

PS I'm in Ohio for the night and every fiber of my Michigan-born body is screaming to flee.

 

[User 463088]

Yup, pretty much that.

PS I'm in Ohio for the night and every fiber of my Michigan-born body is screaming to flee.

I'm so sorry to hear that.

That you're from Michigan, I mean. I'll pray for you.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

I'm so sorry to hear that.

That you're from Michigan, I mean. I'll pray for you.

Oh, I left long ago. Proud enough to be from there, smart enough not to go back (except to visit or camp).

 

[ampere]

My issue is if we approach everyone who says "I'm going to vote for Trump" with "You're a white nationalist, you know that, right?" Boom. Conversation closed. Our response should be "Why do you support Trump?" Maybe it's because the person is pro-life, and they feel the GOP ticket is their only choice. Maybe it's because they're worried about their economic status and feel he can bring them jobs. Maybe it's because they're scared about terrorism.

I don't think this was the issue exactly. It was more "hey, you're supporting a white nationalist, how do you reconcile this and what other policy stances of Trump's makes this OK for you?" The poster could reply as you gave examples, but instead they said it was "trolling".

I think that approach is totally fine, because pretending that Trump isn't a white nationalist just isn't right.

 

[sc0la]

Yup, pretty much that.

PS I'm in Ohio for the night and every fiber of my Michigan-born body is screaming to flee.

You can never escape once you are in Ohio. Stuck. Forever.

 

[User 463088]

Oh, I left long ago. Proud enough to be from there, smart enough not to go back (except to visit or camp).

Still, I have to shit on Michigan anytime I have the chance. I'm in Ohio. It's all we have.

 

[User 463088]

I don't think this was the issue exactly. It was more "hey, you're supporting a white nationalist, how do you reconcile this and what other policy stances of Trump's makes this OK for you?" The poster could reply as you gave examples, but instead they said it was "trolling".

I think that approach is totally fine, because pretending that Trump isn't a white nationalist just isn't right.

Like I said, my initial posting on the subject was 100% based off what Hillary was arguing today. I'm sure it's online somewhere, but it was arguing how can you win Trump supporters when you've said such things about Trump, doesn't that mean they're the same? (Paraphrasing, because I'm stupid and tired. )

 

[eBay Huckster]

You can never escape once you are in Ohio. Stuck. Forever.

just watch me

 

[Armoured Priest]

I'm going to jump off this post if you don't mind to kind of explain what my thought process is. (And it's in no way directed at pigeon, btw. My whole focus on this issue was that I agreed with what Hillary said earlier today, and I think it's the right way to approach this).

I'm not willing to say that every person who votes for Trump is a racist, homophobic, misogynistic, Islamophobe. A lot of them are. Hell, probably a majority. These people are unreachable. Shaming them serves no purpose other than making them shut up...which, again, I don't have a problem with.

My issue is if we approach everyone who says "I'm going to vote for Trump" with "You're a white nationalist, you know that, right?" Boom. Conversation closed. Our response should be "Why do you support Trump?" Maybe it's because the person is pro-life, and they feel the GOP ticket is their only choice. Maybe it's because they're worried about their economic status and feel he can bring them jobs. Maybe it's because they're scared about terrorism.

While their support for Trump DOES mean they're either ambivalent, supportive or unaware of Trump's ignorance and hatred, I still feel there's utility in engaging with them. Maybe these people aren't winnable...but ther are arguments we can put forward that show our candidates strengths while illustrating Trump's weaknesses on all of these issues. And then, yes, by the way...he's a racist. Are you okay with that? We might not win anyone, but we might make some of them think for just a second. And then, next time, maybe they're a little bit more receptive.

No one is calling to tolerate or entertain racists. No one is saying their voice is worthy of anything other than immediate derision and shaming to whatever degree. And, yes, I believe Trump is a white nationalist and anyone who supports him is enabling that. So, there's even more incentive to try and win people over. And if we can't? Shame the hell out of them.

If I may continue your thought, adam. I probably don't need to say this (but I'm going to anyway), in a public forum such as this one, taking the time to engage may or may not change that person's mind. However, there are those that lurk but are still taking the time to read through these threads (like I do). You might not convince the one you're engaging with, but you might make someone who is reading through (and not posting) make up their mind if a fence-sitter, or possibly even reconsider their position. In those cases, a more respectful tone, at least initially, can work a little better.

Put simply: the act of publicly engaging affects more than those directly engaged.

 

[User1608]

Given my place in life, no matter what someone's reasons are for voting for Trump, their support of him feels like a huge f you to me and others I know regardless.

Some friends are just people to me now.

I can totally admit there have been times where I have told some off on this site. I must work on that for the more reasonable people. Idk.

 

[eBay Huckster]

Given my place in life, no matter what someone's reason are for voting for Trump, their support him feels like a huge f you to me and others I know regardless.

Some friends are just people to me now.

i'm basically at this point

like, cool, y'all support trump, glad to see you don't give a shit about your disabled friends, or anyone in the QUILTBAG spectrum, or (in the case of the one south asian trump supporter) anyone else with non-white skin

 

[Grief.exe]

Do the presidential debates get legit streams when they happen or do I need to look into getting local TV channels if I want to watch them live?

I watched all the primary debates, the RNC, and the DNC streaming online. No doubt the debates will be the same.

 

[Slurpy2k20]

https://twitter.com/DrJillStein/status/761713195702595584



Oh, you !

To be honest, I find Jill Stein truly despicable, for the sole reason that she seems only interested and excited about shitting on and attacking the democratic party, and Clinton, when she knows that this only helps Trump, the only other alternative, whom she doesn't bother to acknowledge, attack, or repudiate. Proves to me that no matter what views, ideals, and policies she claims to espouse, she really doesn't give two fucks about the country or its citizens, and is only a politician that will do whatever she feels benefits her politically at any given moment, fuck everything else. Same with Assange, who is also a piece of garbage is apparently is set on sabotage the democrats, and only the democrats.

 

[User1608]

i'm basically at this point

like, cool, y'all support trump, glad to see you don't give a shit about your disabled friends, or anyone in the QUILTBAG spectrum, or (in the case of the one south asian trump supporter) anyone else with non-white skin

Pretty much. Absolutely no excuse.

God, I know someone who has minority and other immigrant friends and when I saw her repeat the angry rhetoric of Trump and say Make America Great Again, I wanted to scream. Same with the Hispanic acquaintance who supports the racist.

 

[User 463088]

Given my place in life, no matter what someone's reasons are for voting for Trump, their support of him feels like a huge f you to me and others I know regardless.

Some friends are just people to me now.

I can totally admit there have been times where I have told some off on this site. I must work on that for the more reasonable people. Idk.

And I agree with this too. And, like, I feel that our two arguments aren't mutually exclusive. Because Trump's rhetoric (and by extension his supporters) have the potential to hurt so many people, I want to do everything I can to stop people from voting for him. And, I worry that certain tactics (As justified as they are. As much as I share the feeling behind them) has the potential to shut off dialog.

Like, maybe I'm over blowing the potential here, but I'm a stubborn asshole. Someone comes at me a certain way, and I dig my heals in. Hard. So, I try to avoid that tactic because I know how it affects me. But, that's probably just because I'm a bitch who is never, ever wrong on anything. Believe me.

At the end of the day, though, I'm a cis-gender white male. And that still means I have a ton of privilege. So, maybe turning up the rhetoric s the right way to deal with this. The truth is...idk the best way to deal with this. I never thought we'd have to! With people like McCain, Bush or Romney, while I fundamentally disagreed with them on a plethora of issues, it was never like this. It should never, ever be like this. This is not okay.

 

[ampere]

Like I said, my initial posting on the subject was 100% based off what Hillary was arguing today. I'm sure it's online somewhere, but it was arguing how can you win Trump supporters when you've said such things about Trump, doesn't that mean they're the same? (Paraphrasing, because I'm stupid and tired. )

I didn't see what she was saying, but yea I get the pragmatism putting trying to convince the person to not vote Trump being put as priority

I guess I just don't feel asking someone to reconcile the really horrible stuff Trump says and does is going too far in terms of offending the Trump supporter prior to having further conversation. Though, since I'm not a Trump supporter, maybe I'm just not seeing it. idk

I do agree with pigeon's argument that if you let people disconnect the bigotry from Trump, you're sort of overlooking one of the most dangerous parts of his persona, and it absolutely has to be addressed. I think the danger of his propensity to recklessly use nukes is even more paramount, but I haven't seen any good answers to that concern yet either

 

[Slurpy2k20]

How the fuck does Trump find these women for his campaign? I would be ultra curious to get inside their heads and really discover the real reason they support the guy, beyond their bullshit-stated propaganda reasons. I can only assume their hatred for X, Y, or Z beats out anything else. Are they just completely shitty, nasty people? Look at her just smiling her ass off and just talking about him in such a sycophantic way. I just can't wrap my mind around it. The guy on the left looks wasted, BTW.

https://youtu.be/DlgjS--OsYw

 

[User1608]

And I agree with this too. And, like, I feel that our two arguments aren't mutually exclusive. Because Trump's rhetoric (and by extension his supporters) have the potential to hurt so many people, I want to do everything I can to stop people from voting for him. And, I worry that certain tactics (As justified as they are. As much as I share the feeling behind them) has the potential to shut off dialog.

Like, maybe I'm over blowing the potential here, but I'm a stubborn asshole. Someone comes at me a certain way, and I dig my heals in. Hard. So, I try to avoid that tactic because I know how it affects me. But, that's probably just because I'm a bitch who is never, ever wrong on anything. Believe me.

At the end of the day, though, I'm a cis-gender white male. And that still means I have a ton of privilege. So, maybe turning up the rhetoric s the right way to deal with this. The truth is...idk the best way to deal with this. I never thought we'd have to! With people like McCain, Bush or Romney, while I fundamentally disagreed with them on a plethora of issues, it was never like this. It should never, ever be like this. This is not okay.

I am proud irl I have convinced and managed to tell people that Trump is not the way. Sure, it's MA, so it may not mean much, but that's less support for him and I wasn't as angry while speaking to them even while I was clearly frustrated in my attempts to lead them away. Anything helps and I'm doing my part in creating sensible dialogue.

McCain I had some respect for way back, so nothing wrong there, and even Romney I didn't have this strong contempt for in 2012 like I do for Trump despite his self deportation comments, which says a lot. Indeed, Trump is a full-blown racist and nationalist, and I will not rest, for the sake of the country.

 

[aspiegamer]

To follow up further on the "it was a video" thing, beyond the fact that no, no one actually gives a fuck; That sort of hate video is 100% legal to make in the US. The guy who produced it was jailed but for violating parole and not because of any nasty shit he said. In much of the rest of the world, deliberately inciting like that would get you arrested for realises. Being an international story and everyone with slightly different free speech rules, it made it far more confusing.

How the fuck does Trump find these women for his campaign? I would be ultra curious to get inside their heads and really discover the real reason they support the guy, beyond their bullshit-stated propaganda reasons.

https://youtu.be/DlgjS--OsYw

That's a rude thing to say about Huckabee.

But really, there's always a list of "some" people that don't mind being a spokesperson for literally any terrible thing as long as they're paid well or offered some sort of higher position (in the case of a political candidate). When you have 330 million Americans, it's not hard to find a dozen or so that will gladly show their faces for exposure on live tv for a paycheck.

That's not to say that don't believe in the message. They likely do, or at least most of them do. Look at it this way-- 98% of scientists affirm global warming. Those other 2% are somewhere, be they truly deniers or paid staff of energy firms. But they ARE out there. Finding loud people with opinions is easy in the internet age, which, coincidentally, is where the Trump campaign has hired some people from.

 

[User 463088]

I am proud irl I have convinced and managed to tell people that Trump is not the way. Sure, it's MA, so it may not mean much, but that's less support for him and I wasn't as angry while speaking to them even while I was clearly frustrated in my attempts to lead them away. Anything helps and I'm doing my part in creating sensible dialogue.

McCain I had some respect for way back, so nothing wrong there, and even Romney I didn't have this strong contempt for in 2012 like I do for Trump despite his self deportation comments, which says a lot. Indeed, Trump is a full-blown racist and nationalist, and I will not rest, for the sake of the country.

It means a lot. Every vote against Trump is a win. Every single one.

 

[User1608]

And yeah, really, the main point of my words about Trump's rhetoric to my friends, colleagues, acquaintances who are willing to listen is that it is hurtful, and affects us minorities.

It is especially aimed at them because a majority of them, truth be told, as I alluded to the other night, are white, and so I wanted to give them some perspective.

It means a lot. Every vote against Trump is a win. Every single one.

That's great to hear.

 

[Beer Monkey]

How the fuck does Trump find these women for his campaign?

Stockholm Syndrome.

I'm not kidding. There are different forms and degrees of being captive in life.

 

[Box of Kittens]

To be honest, I find Jill Stein truly despicable, for the sole reason that she seems only interested and excited about shitting on and attacking the democratic party, and Clinton, when she knows that this only helps Trump, the only other alternative, whom she doesn't bother to acknowledge, attack, or repudiate. Proves to me that no matter what views, ideals, and policies she claims to espouse, she really doesn't give two fucks about the country or its citizens, and is only a politician that will do whatever she feels benefits her politically at any given moment, fuck everything else. Same with Assange, who is also a piece of garbage is apparently is set on sabotage the democrats, and only the democrats.

The problem the Green Party has is that their immediate goal is to get to 5% for federal funding, and the way for them to do that is to convince people who would otherwise cast a Democratic ballot to vote Green instead, so they kind of need to build up this narrative of "the Democrats are just as bad or maybe even worse than the Republicans."

Now, I have zero sympathy for this dilemma. Third parties don't really work in our system, they should put their policy goals above their funding goals, and try focusing on the local level instead of focusing so much on these stupid presidential campaigns. But, it's basically why they act the way they do.

 

[B-Dubs]

The problem the Green Party has is that their immediate goal is to get to 5% for federal funding, and the way for them to do that is to convince people who would otherwise cast a Democratic ballot to vote Green instead, so they kind of need to build up this narrative of "the Democrats are just as bad or maybe even worse than the Republicans."

Now, I have zero sympathy for this dilemma. Third parties don't really work in our system, they should put their policy goals above their funding goals, and try focusing on the local level instead of focusing so much on these stupid presidential campaigns. But, it's basically why they act the way they do.

They act the way they do because it's all a vanity exercise for both the Green and the Libertarian parties.

Let me put it this way, if Jill Stein really gave a shit about her policy goals she'd run for Congress. She's based out of Massachusetts if I remember right, there's no earthly reason she can't move to a district friendly to her ideas and run for office there. She doesn't because the whole thing is a farce.

If the Green or Libertarian parties really cared they'd run people at the local level and build up a bench so they could eventually establish a presence in Congress. It's not that third-parties don't work in our system, it's just that we don't have real third-parties. We've got illusions run on self-delusion.

 

[benjipwns]

How the fuck does Trump find these women for his campaign? I would be ultra curious to get inside their heads and really discover the real reason they support the guy, beyond their bullshit-stated propaganda reasons. I can only assume their hatred for X, Y, or Z beats out anything else. Are they just completely shitty, nasty people?]

Maybe you need some explanatory polling:

Though Nunberg left Trump’s campaign in August, in a recent poll conducted for another client, Nunberg asked women in Connecticut who opposed marijuana legalization who they respected more: a politician who is also charitable and a world-renowned businessman, father and grandfather or an “Elderly woman who not only openly allows her husband to have affairs but tries to silence the women.” The figure with the favorable abstract framing of Trump beat the figure with the negative abstract framing of Clinton by more than 20 points, according to Nunberg.

“He’s a masculine figure and that will attract women to him,” said Nunberg. “It’s their dirty little secret. They like Donald Trump.”