• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

PoliGAF 2017 |OT1| From Russia with Love

Status
Not open for further replies.
why you guys sleeping on my girl

landscape-1478696227-catherinesenator.jpg




Washoe is literally 3 Dems, 3 Republicans. The ultimate swing county!

She's not getting through the primary unless she spends all of the next two years talking about how great gay people are and has like three or four viral moments defending LGBT rights. We'll see how it goes.

She's incredibly talented and a ridiculously good speaker though.
 

Valhelm

contribute something
The decision by Cory Booker and 12 other Senate Dems to vote against the drug bill is totally inconsolable.

This could have been the last chance in years for Senate Democrats to pass a significant piece of legislation, and they squandered it. I can't believe this.
 
I will say I think if the nominee is CCM or Harris we should run super hard for Arizona, but I don't see a winning map without at least some Rust Belt.
 
She's not getting through the primary unless she spends all of the next two years talking about how great gay people are and has like three or four viral moments defending LGBT rights. We'll see how it goes.

She's incredibly talented and a ridiculously good speaker though.

I'm struck by how good of a speaker she is. And her debate against Heck was literally a murder.
 
She's not getting through the primary unless she spends all of the next two years talking about how great gay people are and has like three or four viral moments defending LGBT rights. We'll see how it goes.

She's incredibly talented and a ridiculously good speaker though.

I think the country is totally ready for a gay president.
 
I think the country is totally ready for a gay president.

I would guess yes too, but CCM just has this thing in the past where she somewhat aggressively defended Nevada's gay marriage ban as Nevada's attorney general and she used disgusting analogies to defend it.

And that was in 2014.

She needs to make amends right now or the super pro-LGBT base in the Dem primary will eat her alive.
 

Cybit

FGC Waterboy
The decision by Cory Booker and 12 other Senate Dems to vote against the drug bill is totally inconsolable.

This could have been the last chance in years for Senate Democrats to pass a significant piece of legislation, and they squandered it. I can't believe this.

Were there reasons given for not passing it? I'm still pretty confused at how we voted against the prescription drug law.
 
I would guess yes too, but CCM just has this thing in the past where she somewhat aggressively defended Nevada's gay marriage ban as Nevada's attorney general and she used disgusting analogies to defend it.

And that was in 2014.

She needs to make amends right now or the super pro-LGBT base in the Dem primary will eat her alive.

I don't remember it being that throated of a defense, and then she didn't appeal when they lost? Maybe? Am I wrong?
 
I would guess yes too, but CCM just has this thing in the past where she somewhat aggressively defended Nevada's gay marriage ban as Nevada's attorney general and she used disgusting analogies to defend it.

And that was in 2014.

She needs to make amends right now or the super pro-LGBT base in the Dem primary will eat her alive.

Oh, I thought she was gay. Didn't realize she was anti-gay until 2014 and fought against gay marriage

Yea, she's not going anywhere.
 
So looking at the Nevada State Assembly (controlled now by Dems) only 3 (!!) Dem members of the caucus aren't from Clark County. They're all from Washoe County (2 from Reno, one from a Reno suburb).

Of the 15 GOPers, 1 is from Lyon County, 1 is from Nye County, 1 is from Douglas County, 1 is from Elko County, 1 is from Carson City, 3 are from Reno/suburbs in Washoe County, and the remaining 7 are from Clark County, with 4 in Vegas proper.

This made me curious about Illinois, since it is somewhat similar to Nevada in that both have populations concentrated in a single metro (roughly 40% of Illinoisans live in Cook County, while about 2/3rds of Nevadans live in Clark County).

Based on a quick inspection, here's what the numbers appear to be for the House.

Cook County Democrats: 44
Collar county* Democrats: 12
Other Democrats: 11
Republicans: 51

Of the 11 others, 5 are from St. Louis suburbs, and one each are from Peoria, Decatur, Urbana (home, along with Champaign, of the main campus University of Illinois), Rockford, and the Quad Cities. One is from rural Southern Illinois. I would need to examine more carefully, but as far as I can tell that would be the only predominantly rural district represented by a Democrat. The Chicago metro alone is not quite enough to get the Democrats a majority, but the combination of the Chicago and St. Louis metros is.

*Counties bordering Cook, each of which is predominantly Chicago suburb.
 
I would guess yes too, but CCM just has this thing in the past where she somewhat aggressively defended Nevada's gay marriage ban as Nevada's attorney general and she used disgusting analogies to defend it.

And that was in 2014.

She needs to make amends right now or the super pro-LGBT base in the Dem primary will eat her alive.

I don't remember it being that throated of a defense, and then she didn't appeal when they lost? Maybe? Am I wrong?

It wasn't:

https://lasvegassun.com/news/2012/may/27/governor-attorney-general-stick-book-gay-marriage/

Sandoval and Cortez Masto say they are following the book when defending the state in a lawsuit that seeks to nullify Nevada's definition of marriage as between a man and a woman, which voters embedded in the constitution 10 years ago.

Nevada's solicitor general last week filed a motion to dismiss the lawsuit brought by eight same-sex couples. The suit claims Nevada's ban violates their federal right to equal protection under the law.

The solicitor general's motion argued that marriage is a state issue and that federal courts have no jurisdiction.

Despite seeking to have the same-sex marriage lawsuit tossed out of court, both Cortez Masto and Sandoval have, true to their penchant to avoid controversy, refused to fully engage in the political debate. They're framing their roles as technocrats doing an administrative job rather than politicians or ideologues wading into an emotional issue.

Filing a motion to dismiss is not an unusual litigation strategy.

Even advocates for gay marriage in Nevada are sympathetic to the legal obligations that Sandoval and Cortez Masto have to defend the state's constitution.

”The first duty of the governor and attorney general is to uphold the Constitution of Nevada. Based on that, I see a move to dismiss as a reasonable response," said state Sen. David Parks, D-Las Vegas.

Also, then:

http://www.cnn.com/2014/02/11/us/nevada-abandons-ban-same-sex-marriage/

Nevada won't defend its ban against same-sex marriage, saying its legal position has been "undermined" in a series of rulings that began last June with a historic U.S. Supreme Court ruling recognizing gay marriages.

The state's decision comes in a case filed by eight same-sex couples represented by the gay rights group Lambda Legal. The case challenged Nevada's constitutional amendment banning marriage for gay and lesbian couples, the group said.

A federal court judge dismissed the suit in 2012 at Gov. Brian Sandoval's request, but Lambda Legal appealed that ruling to the federal 9th Circuit Court of Appeals. Since then, the U.S. Supreme Court struck down a key part of the federal Defense of Marriage Act that had denied to legally married same-sex couples the same federal benefits provided to heterosexual spouses.

A subsequent 9th Circuit Court ruling in an unrelated case persuaded Nevada to abandon its defense of the gay marriage ban, Nevada officials said. That recent case involved a preemptory challenge to strike a prospective juror in a trial because he was gay, but the 9th Circuit ruled that discriminatory classifications based on sexual orientation must receive heightened scrutiny and should be presumed unconstitutional, Lambda Legal said.

"After thoughtful review and analysis, the state has determined that its arguments grounded upon equal protection and due process are no longer sustainable," Nevada Attorney General Catherine Cortez Masto said in a statement Monday.
 
I don't remember it being that throated of a defense, and then she didn't appeal when they lost? Maybe? Am I wrong?

The language was pretty aggressive.

Words matter.

Or they should, wherever they are, even in legal briefs.

Perhaps it was the brandishing of laws prohibiting incest and bigamy to argue against gay marriage in a brief responding to a federal appeal. Perhaps it was asserting that Nevada laws encouraging “traditional marriage” actually “define Nevada society.” Or perhaps it was asserting that the 2002 constitutional ban on same-sex marriage “did not take away any right.”

https://www.ralstonreports.com/blog...ortez-masto-set-state-back-gay-marriage-brief
 
I mean, the only thing I really give Trump himself credit for is being unbelievably savvy about the news cycle and manipulating the news cycle and media to do a ton of work for him. See all the charts about how much free advertising the media ended up giving him. The only other kind of smart thing he did was hire Conway, who, despite being a ridiculous money chasing sleazeball who I dislike on an extreme level, did her job well during the election (which includes being able to convince the toddler-esque Trump to hand over his phone and not do anything stupid).

Outside of that, this election, at least currently, felt like "which one of them can mess up the least". Trump played the media really well, played his brand really well, and then got lucky with Clinton having a few costly mistakes that came up at the wrong time (and played into his media manipulation well). But we do have to understand that while his messaging is despicable and messed up and generally not palatable to the majority of Americans, it is on-target with enough people to win the presidential election (even if not popular vote) - and we have to counter that (be it by expanding the electoral pool, effectively highlighting his hypocrisy, etc) for both 2018 and 2020.

FWIW, I actually do think his numbers will go up a teensy bit after the inauguration, but then stay like in the 30s for the majority of his presidency. (If any of the Russia rumors get verified, then all bets are off). But approval ratings are often just tied to "how the country is doing" as much as anything else - so if we have an economic boom because of a completely extraneous reason, Trump's approval ratings would rocket up. So I think looking at how he played the media and press is something that we should do in terms of trying to properly estimate him. I probably wouldn't go further than that for now.

As for who to run in 2020 - Brown seems good, but 4 years is a long time away, and I suspect Trump may end up creating a couple of Democratic superstars over the next 2-4 years. Basically, too early to tell for me. I don't like the idea of a celebrity or whatnot - I think that's taking the wrong lesson out of it.

I'd say we're pretty much on the same page.

This might sound crazy but I would like it if my party ran someone qualified for president. Sorry if that's a purity test.

Same here. I want to win of course, but having the president be qualified to do the job is kinda important, and "more qualified than Trump" is not exactly where I would set the bar.
 

daedalius

Member
Like, my dad is one of the few people that legitimately liked Trump and helped him win the primary.

My dad is a stalker who makes fun of the disabled, makes wildly racist comments, and says that all people who speak Arabic are terrorists and he claims that he's wildly oppressed all the time. He's a Christian in identity, but has not attended church in two decades but still gets extremely offended when you question the church.

There are lots of these people among the GOP base, but there are very few of them in the overall electorate. It's maybe 20% of people who are like this.

We have the same kind of father apparently

My dad is the exact same way, listens to Limbaugh daily and Fox News is his "safe space for conservatives"
 

mo60

Member
I will say I think if the nominee is CCM or Harris we should run super hard for Arizona, but I don't see a winning map without at least some Rust Belt.

Some of the rust belt will flip back(i.e. PA, WI) with high urban turnout and decreased rural turnout especially if the nominee is decent and if trump or whoever follows him in four years time is damaged goods.
 
Why is Ohio so politically different from the other states in the region? Is it the southern parts by Kentucky that make it more lean-R than the northern lakes states?
 

Valhelm

contribute something
My face when I heard we sent troops into Poland: :D
My face when I remembered that this is not to perform a coup against the Law and Justice Party: :/

I'd be totally OK with a left-wing CIA undermining far-right parties across Europe.

Why is Ohio so politically different from the other states in the region? Is it the southern parts by Kentucky that make it more lean-R than the northern lakes states?

Ohio is blue for a Midwestern state and red for a Northeastern state. It's kind of a median between those two areas.
 

Jeels

Member
Some of the rust belt will flip back(i.e. PA, WI) with high urban turnout and decreased rural turnout especially if the nominee is decent and if trump or whoever follows him in four years time is damaged goods.

We don't necessarily know that yet. These could be permanent trends. (Ie south flipping blue to red, NE flipping red to blue, etc).
 

mo60

Member
We don't necessarily know that yet. These could be permanent trends. (Ie south flipping blue to red, NE flipping red to blue, etc).

Overall trend will probably be that the rust belt turns more red while the south turns more blue but some states in the midwest/rust belt will turn blue again or more blue. The south eastern part of PA should help turn the state blue again on the presidential level. Kansas will probably be another interesting midwest state to watch on the presidential level since it may actually turn slightly more blue in the next decade or so. WI and MI are a bit questionable at the moment, but I think WI has a better chance of turning blue again then MI. MN will stay blue for now.
 

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
Senate just got out of it's Trump/Russia briefing and Durbin says it's worse than it had originally sounded, according to a Gaffer watching FOX. I can only assume they now have some information we don't.
 
Senate just got out of it's Trump/Russia briefing and Durbin says it's worse than it had originally sounded, according to a Gaffer watching FOX. I can only assume they now have some information we don't.
Well if that isn't a worthy source idk what is. Btw so hype for switch presentation later
 

Cybit

FGC Waterboy
Going back to earlier talks about globalization...

https://bostonreview.net/forum/dean-baker-globalization-blame

Fantastic commentary that I wanted to point out (h/t to LGM)

Among the many myths about globalization, the worst is that the loss of large numbers of manufacturing jobs in the United States (and Europe) was inevitable. Because the developing world is full of low-paid workers, this argument goes, it was impossible for Americans to compete. Economists and politicians promoting this view might consider the outcome unfortunate for U.S. workers, but also unavoidable. They take comfort in the growing living standards of billions of impoverished people in the developing world.

This is a palatable view of the history of the last forty years for those who were not its victims, but it is wrong in just about every way.

Globalization need not have taken the course it did. There was nothing inevitable about large U.S. trade deficits, which peaked at almost 6 percent of GDP in 2005 and 2006 (roughly $1.1 trillion annually in today’s economy). And there was nothing inevitable about the patterns of trade that resulted in such an imbalance. Policy decisions—not God, nature, or the invisible hand—exposed American manufacturing workers to direct competition with low-paid workers in the developing world. Policymakers could have exposed more highly paid workers such as doctors and lawyers to this same competition, but a bipartisan congressional consensus, and presidents of both parties, instead chose to keep them largely protected.

…

It is not just the volume and direction of trade flows that reflect policy choices. A second assumption in the familiar story about globalization concerns the content of those flows. Trade deals negotiated by administrations of both parties have been designed to enable U.S. corporations to manufacture goods in developing countries and return the output to the United States with minimal restrictions. This choice puts U.S. manufacturing workers in direct competition with low-paid workers in the developing world. Our economy may gain as a whole from access to low-cost goods made in the developing world, but a predictable and actual outcome of this pattern of trade is the loss of U.S. manufacturing jobs and downward pressure on the wages of less-educated workers generally.

There were other options, and there still are. Just as we can save money on shoes and shirts by buying goods made in China, we could save on our medical bills and legal services if we allowed low-paid doctors, lawyers, and other professionals from developing countries to practice in the United States.

As it stands, almost nothing has been done in this era of trade liberalization to reduce the barriers protecting our most highly paid professionals. It is illegal for a doctor to practice medicine in the United States unless she has completed a U.S. or Canadian residency program. (The number of slots in these programs is strictly limited, with a small fraction open to foreign-trained doctors.) Dentists are prohibited from practicing in the United States unless they graduate from an American dental school; the lone exceptions among foreign nationals are graduates of Canadian dental schools.

It is absurd to believe that the only way to be a competent doctor is to complete a U.S. residency program. If we applied our free-trade principles to medical and dental services, as well as to the work of other highly paid professionals, we would establish an international system of credentialing that would allow foreign professionals to train to our standards and practice in the United States. This is not some absurd fantasy. Able workers in these fields already collaborate all over the world; the bones and teeth and hearts in India are no different from those of Americans.

….

In short, almost everything about the story of globalization as a natural or necessary process is false. The United States does not need to run a trade deficit, large or small, with the developing world. And these trade deficits are not prerequisites for reducing poverty there.

If globalization in the current mode was not preordained, it was also not an accident. The exposure of American manufacturing workers to competition with low-paid foreign workers follows policy choices made by officials who knew their decisions would result in lower pay for Americans.

Ending protectionism for highly paid professionals and intellectual property would help to reverse the past four decades of upward income redistribution, but it will not be enough on its own. It is also necessary to attack the bloated financial sector and its excessive paychecks, fix a broken corporate-governance structure that allows CEOs outlandish salaries, and rethink macroeconomic policy that has sacrificed employment on the alter of low inflation. I address these issues more thoroughly in my new book, Rigged.
 
Overall trend will probably be that the rust belt turns more red while the south turns more blue but some states in the midwest/rust belt will turn blue again or more blue. The south eastern part of PA should help turn the state blue again on the presidential level. Kansas will probably be another interesting midwest state to watch on the presidential level since it may actually turn slightly more blue in the next decade or so. WI and MI are a bit questionable at the moment, but I think WI has a better chance of turning blue again then MI. MN will stay blue for now.
I actually would think Michigan would flip sooner than Wisconsin - smaller margin in a bigger state. You just need to turn out Detroit and Clinton didn't.

But that's a simplistic argument.
 

mo60

Member
I actually would think Michigan would flip sooner than Wisconsin - smaller margin in a bigger state. You just need to turn out Detroit and Clinton didn't.

But that's a simplistic argument.

The problem is detriot's population is declining if I recall which will make it harder for the democrats to win MI in the future.
 

Valhelm

contribute something
The Nazi march in Whitefish Montana was canceled and the Cuban Adjustment Act is being repealed.

This makes up for the Democrats' failure to pass the drug bill.
 
I'd be totally OK with a left-wing CIA undermining far-right parties across Europe.



Ohio is blue for a Midwestern state and red for a Northeastern state. It's kind of a median between those two areas.
Huh, WI/MI/MN are all more D heavy. It's the second most red state by the Great Lakes after Indiana.

The problem is detriot's population is declining if I recall which will make it harder for the democrats to win MI in the future.
Wisconsin also has many more flipped Obama counties than Michigan, which means there are probably more voters that we could flip.
 
Wisconsin also has many more flipped Obama counties than Michigan, which means there are probably more voters that we could flip.

House Republicans just ceased investigating the Flint Water Crisis, and are largely considered the ones responsible for it occurring in the first place. I don't imagine after 2-4 years of a Trump Administration Michigan will continue to vote for Republicans since they have lied, mislead, and harmed them at every opportunity.
 

avaya

Member
House Republicans just ceased investigating the Flint Water Crisis, and are largely considered the ones responsible for it occurring in the first place. I don't imagine after 2-4 years of a Trump Administration Michigan will continue to vote for Republicans since they have lied, mislead, and harmed them at every opportunity.

Kansas.
 

Just a reminder that Brownback fared much worse in his reelection campaign than in his original run. He was first elected in a landslide and barely hung on the second time around during a Republican wave cycle in a deep red state.

I am not going to make any predictions about how Michigan will vote the next time around because it is way too early for that, but there is this pervasive notion that voters are completely indifferent about the performance of their elected officials and it really is not the case.
 
At the very least, let's not conflate "he won" with "he's popular". He clearly isn't.

Quite true. There's literally no reason at all to ever argue against the statement "Hillary Clinton millions more votes than Trump." Dems snatch defeat from the jaws of victory a lot, and saying things like "Ya know, Trump is actually really well liked" is incorrect and self sabotage.
 

avaya

Member
Quite true. There's literally no reason at all to ever argue against the statement "Hillary Clinton millions more votes than Trump." Dems snatch defeat from the jaws of victory a lot, and saying things like "Ya know, Trump is actually really well liked" is incorrect and self sabotage.

But the shitty system means CA and NY are deemed less important than middle of nowhere USA. They shouldn't be, but they are.

The worry is what the fuck happened in PA to me, that is a substantial raw vote lead he dragged out. Was D turnout that anaemic in Philly burbs and Pittsburgh?
 

Cybit

FGC Waterboy
But the shitty system means CA and NY are deemed less important than middle of nowhere USA. They shouldn't be, but they are.

The worry is what the fuck happened in PA to me, that is a substantial raw vote lead he dragged out. Was D turnout that anaemic in Philly burbs and Pittsburgh?

If trends hold the way they are, there's a very good chance that in 20-30 years, the election just basically comes down to Texas every time. Basically some version of this map.

OpDb7.png
 

avaya

Member
If trends hold the way they are, there's a very good chance that in 20-30 years, the election just basically comes down to Texas every time. Basically some version of this map.

OpDb7.png

I trust you on this but I don't understand red VA or NC.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom