Well no wonder he's pushing the pot stuff again. He's got an industry to support!
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PoliGAF 2017 |OT1| From Russia with Love
- Thread starter ItWasMeantToBe19
- Start date
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Well no wonder he's pushing the pot stuff again. He's got an industry to support!
tedrotheredro
Member
Two industries: private prisons and pharmaceuticals. Win, win!
It seems pretty bizarre at first glance, but when you consider that Russia is probably the last great bastion of white nationalist, Christian social conservativism, it makes sense that that would resonate with American conservatives. Russia ain't the atheist communist symbol it used to be.
Well, now we know why he blew up.
On the heels of the Trump administration removing data from government sites and mulling a nonsensical new calculation for trade deficits, they're looking to cook the books on terrorism stats, too.
White House effort to justify travel ban causes growing concern for some intelligence officials
These guys are working backwards to create a basis for Trump's alternate reality.
White House effort to justify travel ban causes growing concern for some intelligence officials
These guys are working backwards to create a basis for Trump's alternate reality.
Ironically the same way we got into the Iraq War that jump started all this nonsense in the first place.
Wanda/Wander
Member
The "funny" thing about the lead up to the Iraq War was the amount of effort the Bush Administration went to bend the truth to sell the public on idea of invasion, while Trump's Administration is like "fuck any sense of reality, let's just makes some stuff up"
RastaMentality
Banned
and they were largely successful at selling it at first too. an actual competent Trump presidency would be absolutely terrifying.
But then that hypothetical person would be nothing like Trump.
smokeymicpot
Beat EviLore at pool.
http://cnn.it/2lwzX5I
FBI refused White House request to knock down recent Trump-Russia stories
Washington (CNN)The FBI rejected a recent White House request to publicly knock down media reports about communications between Donald Trump's associates and Russians known to US intelligence during the 2016 presidential campaign, multiple US officials briefed on the matter tell CNN.
White House officials had sought the help of the bureau and other agencies investigating the Russia matter to say that the reports were wrong and that there had been no contacts, the officials said. The reports of the contacts were first published by The New York Times and CNN on February 14.
FBI refused White House request to knock down recent Trump-Russia stories
Washington (CNN)The FBI rejected a recent White House request to publicly knock down media reports about communications between Donald Trump's associates and Russians known to US intelligence during the 2016 presidential campaign, multiple US officials briefed on the matter tell CNN.
White House officials had sought the help of the bureau and other agencies investigating the Russia matter to say that the reports were wrong and that there had been no contacts, the officials said. The reports of the contacts were first published by The New York Times and CNN on February 14.
Well they had the intelligence community on board with passing it off to the public.
NYCmetsfan
Banned
eh, its more immigration I suspect
Infinite Stars
Member
What the actual fuck is Comey's game? He knows that when Trump goes down, so does the entirity of the fucking GOP. Why is he playing Chicken with this, because he's seemingly playing both sides and just .
He's either the dumbest person in Washington right now or the smartest, and I can't tell which.
RastaMentality
Banned
It'd be like if Trump fired everybody and got a competent legal and media team tomorrow. Someone who could really sell Bannon and his' ideas in the best way.
Aaron Strife
Banned
I think people were just latching onto any world leader to compare Obama unfavorably to. I remember a similar meme going around about "the president of Australia" being a "REAL Christian, who believes in GOD" and a man, at the time when Australia's prime minister was an agnostic woman.
When you consider God-fearing conservative male asshole world leaders today, besides Putin there's not a lot of options that stand out.
Dominican Power
Member
CrimzonSamurai
Member
I dunno if that was ever a real meme or just some idiot woman's tweet that was screen capped for all eternity.
Mr.Shrugglesã
Banned
God damnit. =(
ItWasMeantToBe19
Banned
What was on Fox News just now?
What happened to Donnie sending in the national guard?
thehypocrite
Member
12d chess.
I think there are factions inside the FBI that were fiercely anti-Clinton which pressed him to release the letter, while there are others who want see this Russia thing through and resist external pressure to quash it. I think post election the anti-Russia side has gotten stronger as the agency has faced more criticism of being partisan.
Aaron Strife
Banned
Comey could be America's greatest hero if there's a huge Dem wave in 2018-2020 that gives us a Dem president and supermajorities. President Clinton with a GOP Congress would have certainly resulted in another disastrous midterm, and even more likely a loss in 2020 when the GOP might have felt compelled to run a more moderate candidate.
Of course, the damage Trump does could outweigh that.
Of course, the damage Trump does could outweigh that.
soul creator
Member
Susan Sarandon is that you
Bonen no Max'd
Banned
Second bill of rights here we go
T
thepotatoman
Unconfirmed Member
Wait, what? Since when is generally removing regulations unpopular?
https://twitter.com/nickgourevitch/status/834919858924044288
https://twitter.com/nickgourevitch/status/834919858924044288
When someone actually starts doing it.
ItWasMeantToBe19
Banned
Regulations on "small businesses" are the devil.
Regulations on corporations people love.
Okay, I need to get this off my chest. I've been holding it in, but I'm starting to think that not expressing this is starting to become unhealthy. Maybe once I get it out, I can move away from it. I've been disturbed by these tendencies and I don't advocate any one to actually act on the thoughts presented here. I just need them expressed. And if you don't want to listen to what essentially amounts to a long, politically charged bitch fest, feel free to skip this.
The election and subsequent actions of Trump have made me develop what I can only call fascistic tendencies.
I mean, I've always had what I liked to call stricter standards for opinions and arguments than most other people. For the most part, this pertained to idle philosophy debates or otherwise arguments about stupid shit like movies, comics, and general stories. My position was that everyone was entitled to an opinion, but not everyone's opinion had the same value. For example, saying you don't like Obama may be an opinion I disagree with, but I can atleast respect disliking Obama because you really don't like his foreign policy decisions vs something like "he's a muslim". I mean, I feel I shouldn't even have to explain this, because I feel this is obvious and everyone should have long acknowledged some opinions are less valid than others, but my point is that I've always been someone inclined to, in exasperation, just dismiss people's arguments with a "Well, you're wrong, you stupid motherfucker" if I felt it was warranted. When people cling to opinions you cannot support with evidence or logic, then they're wrong, even if they're not wrong in the absolutist sense of fact vs fiction like saying "Rocks are Candy". Something like "Obama is a muslim" is not based in reality enough to be called wrong, despite not being an absolute fact.
Still, I was never really bothered by those people. Annoyed, sure, but I always felt that people like these would eventually be sifted out in proper discourse. Hypothetically, if someone was legitimately interested in seeing whether Obama was born in Kenya, they'd see the lack of evidence, the contradictory statements, the general transparent pretense of the whole thing vs people who reasonably point out all the reasons the idea that Obama was born in Kenya is absurd and naturally incline themselves to the people who make the reasonable arguments.
This election has shown that doesn't happen. Trump has developed what I feel can only be described as a cult. For Trump to win, people had to willingly not educate themselves in favor to adhere to their confirmation bias. I've always known that was a force that people had to contend with, but I never expected that it would be to such a degree that people would elect a man like Trump to the highest office of the nation. Clearly, I was the one who was wrong this time.
And my general reaction to this has been: if that's how things are, if people are capable of this stupidity, why should they have a choice to decide the fate of themselves and others? I mean, the crux of democracy is that you have a choice in deciding who represents you. But how can you reliably make that choice if you are so grossly misinformed, either by coincidence or because you decided to shut out anything you didn't want to hear? You can't. Making good decisions requires knowing what the real choices are. There's no going around that. To make a responsible choice between A and B, you need to know what A and B truly are. And the way information on our society works (from legitimate news media to fake news online) makes it impossible to cultivate an environment where people know the choices they're supposed to make.
This isn't a functional democracy. It's broken. The only thing I can say in favor of it at this particular moment is that I've never seen this level of activism from the left. People are fighting to do all they can to limit the tide of horror that Trump's administration is working to unleash, the media finally seem to have decided to do their actual fucking jobs, and Trump's administration is feeling struggling to make it's horrific policies into practice.
But I honestly don't have much hope that this will last the 2 years necessary to gain more seats in the government (assuming we win every seat that can be won). Or the 4 years before we can oust trump. Theoretically, sure, it's possible that we keep doing this and minimalize the damage for his term. But far more likely is that something will happen. Perhaps Trump will be provoked and we'll enter into another war. Maybe Trump will get sick of the protesters and start to impose a military state. Perhaps Putin gets away with something truly harrowing and we do nothing to stop it because Trump's his pawn. Or maybe something deceptively positive seeming will happen, like Trump will be impeached and then we'll have President Pence instituting terrible policies in a more subtle, successful way. Worst of all, God forbid another terrorist attack happens ala 9/11, which will give Trump all the justification he needs to blow some poor country all the way to (possibly nuclear) hell. So many hundreds of ways this can go wrong that it seems inevitable that it will.
So...and I stress that this is in my own thoughts, so I haven't advocated this in any way to anybody nor do I do so now because I know the consequences it'd bring.... I can't imagine a better outcome for this government than things getting violent. You know the general discussion regarding the whole punched Nazi thread? Where the dickhead is now afraid to speak out his hatred and bigotry because he fears people will harm him for it? I can't help finding appeal in imagining that policy writ large to the Trump administration. Don't kick out our immigrant friends or will will kick you out of your homes. Stop killing black people or we'll return the favor. Don't abuse others lest ye be abused. I mean, I am sorry, but I just can't imagine having more hope for the country than waking up one morning and reading a news headline that says "The entirety of the GOP is gone". I have no wish to have the people running it dead as people, as much as I despise them, but what a world it'd be if the GOP were just gone, leaving democrats to make all the decisions. Because this is the point that the GOP has shown itself to be flat out fucking evil and it will harm the country in every way at all expense (except, perhaps, it's own). They are not a legitimate governing body who seeks to better the lives of it's citizens. Why the fuck should they continue to exist?
And frankly, as I said, I think it will eventually come to violence anyway. Trump doesn't have Obama's patience. Eventually, he'll just go "You know what? Fuck it, bring in the military." And what will our alternative be then?
If people are stupid enough to have chosen this, to not see the consequences coming, then they obviously aren't mature or intelligent enough to have a legitimate say in making governmental decisions. And if you think that's going too far, ask yourselves, why do not let children vote, no matter how good their grades are? We recognize that children are not complete people who are worthy of the responsibility of making that kind of decision. These people may be of age and citizenry to vote, but they can't be mature and intelligent if they voted for Trump. At best, these people followed the cultish mindset and voted because Trump had an R next to his name with no consideration for his vile character or positions. At worst, people genuinely like some vile positions he has, and reconfigure others they don't. But I've never met a trump supporter that didn't do mental gymnastics to justify his bs, which implies to me that no one truly, authentically supports him. They just recreate their own image of Trump to their ideal as they go. And this is all encouraged by Trump, who lies through his teeth to give them the excuse to do that, saying anything he needs to to make himself look appealing at any given moment. The model of rationality that I adhere to, collecting evidence and trying to figure out the truth of things to make the most informed decision possible, is scorned and rejected today.
I'd be happy to talk to these people, to help inform them and clear their understanding. My faith in democracy was based in that people would reach an educated, intelligent position on any given topic, given enough time. I was wrong about this. They wouldn't because they don't want to. They'll push the doomsday button in blind, raging ignorance, fucking everybody over, and pat themselves on the back for it. There is no talking to these people. They'll never listen because they have no interest in seeking out the truth. They already have the closest thing they need to it, their own voice. So I ask again, why should they get a vote? Why shouldn't their say be taken away, by force if necessary?
Now, if you are forming a response telling me how dangerous this thinking is, don't bother. I know that violence destroys the faith of any kind of legitimate democracy as easily as misinformation does. And I know there isn't a practical or incorruptible test we can administrate to decide if a person is qualified to vote that can't be abused to hell and back. And it is hypocritical to spurn Trump's fascism when all I want is a force of fascism that works for me, doing my will. It's all stuff I know and I DO NOT advocate anything of what I said here to be implemented. I know what everything I said here is mostly born of anger, frustration, and misanthropy. Everything I described here is bad.
I'm just, at this moment, struggling to see why it's worse than what we already have.
The election and subsequent actions of Trump have made me develop what I can only call fascistic tendencies.
I mean, I've always had what I liked to call stricter standards for opinions and arguments than most other people. For the most part, this pertained to idle philosophy debates or otherwise arguments about stupid shit like movies, comics, and general stories. My position was that everyone was entitled to an opinion, but not everyone's opinion had the same value. For example, saying you don't like Obama may be an opinion I disagree with, but I can atleast respect disliking Obama because you really don't like his foreign policy decisions vs something like "he's a muslim". I mean, I feel I shouldn't even have to explain this, because I feel this is obvious and everyone should have long acknowledged some opinions are less valid than others, but my point is that I've always been someone inclined to, in exasperation, just dismiss people's arguments with a "Well, you're wrong, you stupid motherfucker" if I felt it was warranted. When people cling to opinions you cannot support with evidence or logic, then they're wrong, even if they're not wrong in the absolutist sense of fact vs fiction like saying "Rocks are Candy". Something like "Obama is a muslim" is not based in reality enough to be called wrong, despite not being an absolute fact.
Still, I was never really bothered by those people. Annoyed, sure, but I always felt that people like these would eventually be sifted out in proper discourse. Hypothetically, if someone was legitimately interested in seeing whether Obama was born in Kenya, they'd see the lack of evidence, the contradictory statements, the general transparent pretense of the whole thing vs people who reasonably point out all the reasons the idea that Obama was born in Kenya is absurd and naturally incline themselves to the people who make the reasonable arguments.
This election has shown that doesn't happen. Trump has developed what I feel can only be described as a cult. For Trump to win, people had to willingly not educate themselves in favor to adhere to their confirmation bias. I've always known that was a force that people had to contend with, but I never expected that it would be to such a degree that people would elect a man like Trump to the highest office of the nation. Clearly, I was the one who was wrong this time.
And my general reaction to this has been: if that's how things are, if people are capable of this stupidity, why should they have a choice to decide the fate of themselves and others? I mean, the crux of democracy is that you have a choice in deciding who represents you. But how can you reliably make that choice if you are so grossly misinformed, either by coincidence or because you decided to shut out anything you didn't want to hear? You can't. Making good decisions requires knowing what the real choices are. There's no going around that. To make a responsible choice between A and B, you need to know what A and B truly are. And the way information on our society works (from legitimate news media to fake news online) makes it impossible to cultivate an environment where people know the choices they're supposed to make.
This isn't a functional democracy. It's broken. The only thing I can say in favor of it at this particular moment is that I've never seen this level of activism from the left. People are fighting to do all they can to limit the tide of horror that Trump's administration is working to unleash, the media finally seem to have decided to do their actual fucking jobs, and Trump's administration is feeling struggling to make it's horrific policies into practice.
But I honestly don't have much hope that this will last the 2 years necessary to gain more seats in the government (assuming we win every seat that can be won). Or the 4 years before we can oust trump. Theoretically, sure, it's possible that we keep doing this and minimalize the damage for his term. But far more likely is that something will happen. Perhaps Trump will be provoked and we'll enter into another war. Maybe Trump will get sick of the protesters and start to impose a military state. Perhaps Putin gets away with something truly harrowing and we do nothing to stop it because Trump's his pawn. Or maybe something deceptively positive seeming will happen, like Trump will be impeached and then we'll have President Pence instituting terrible policies in a more subtle, successful way. Worst of all, God forbid another terrorist attack happens ala 9/11, which will give Trump all the justification he needs to blow some poor country all the way to (possibly nuclear) hell. So many hundreds of ways this can go wrong that it seems inevitable that it will.
So...and I stress that this is in my own thoughts, so I haven't advocated this in any way to anybody nor do I do so now because I know the consequences it'd bring.... I can't imagine a better outcome for this government than things getting violent. You know the general discussion regarding the whole punched Nazi thread? Where the dickhead is now afraid to speak out his hatred and bigotry because he fears people will harm him for it? I can't help finding appeal in imagining that policy writ large to the Trump administration. Don't kick out our immigrant friends or will will kick you out of your homes. Stop killing black people or we'll return the favor. Don't abuse others lest ye be abused. I mean, I am sorry, but I just can't imagine having more hope for the country than waking up one morning and reading a news headline that says "The entirety of the GOP is gone". I have no wish to have the people running it dead as people, as much as I despise them, but what a world it'd be if the GOP were just gone, leaving democrats to make all the decisions. Because this is the point that the GOP has shown itself to be flat out fucking evil and it will harm the country in every way at all expense (except, perhaps, it's own). They are not a legitimate governing body who seeks to better the lives of it's citizens. Why the fuck should they continue to exist?
And frankly, as I said, I think it will eventually come to violence anyway. Trump doesn't have Obama's patience. Eventually, he'll just go "You know what? Fuck it, bring in the military." And what will our alternative be then?
If people are stupid enough to have chosen this, to not see the consequences coming, then they obviously aren't mature or intelligent enough to have a legitimate say in making governmental decisions. And if you think that's going too far, ask yourselves, why do not let children vote, no matter how good their grades are? We recognize that children are not complete people who are worthy of the responsibility of making that kind of decision. These people may be of age and citizenry to vote, but they can't be mature and intelligent if they voted for Trump. At best, these people followed the cultish mindset and voted because Trump had an R next to his name with no consideration for his vile character or positions. At worst, people genuinely like some vile positions he has, and reconfigure others they don't. But I've never met a trump supporter that didn't do mental gymnastics to justify his bs, which implies to me that no one truly, authentically supports him. They just recreate their own image of Trump to their ideal as they go. And this is all encouraged by Trump, who lies through his teeth to give them the excuse to do that, saying anything he needs to to make himself look appealing at any given moment. The model of rationality that I adhere to, collecting evidence and trying to figure out the truth of things to make the most informed decision possible, is scorned and rejected today.
I'd be happy to talk to these people, to help inform them and clear their understanding. My faith in democracy was based in that people would reach an educated, intelligent position on any given topic, given enough time. I was wrong about this. They wouldn't because they don't want to. They'll push the doomsday button in blind, raging ignorance, fucking everybody over, and pat themselves on the back for it. There is no talking to these people. They'll never listen because they have no interest in seeking out the truth. They already have the closest thing they need to it, their own voice. So I ask again, why should they get a vote? Why shouldn't their say be taken away, by force if necessary?
Now, if you are forming a response telling me how dangerous this thinking is, don't bother. I know that violence destroys the faith of any kind of legitimate democracy as easily as misinformation does. And I know there isn't a practical or incorruptible test we can administrate to decide if a person is qualified to vote that can't be abused to hell and back. And it is hypocritical to spurn Trump's fascism when all I want is a force of fascism that works for me, doing my will. It's all stuff I know and I DO NOT advocate anything of what I said here to be implemented. I know what everything I said here is mostly born of anger, frustration, and misanthropy. Everything I described here is bad.
I'm just, at this moment, struggling to see why it's worse than what we already have.
jack_package_200
Banned
Also I do not have any hope James Comey will stand against Trump. He got what he wanted.
soul creator
Member
One of the twitter replies kind of gets at this, but part of the explanation may be the difference between the typical "likely voter" and the population as a whole.
I've noticed tons of issues that when you break them down, a lot more people than expected tend to take a progressive (and even "radical" side). But voters tend to be older, whiter, and wealthier than the nonvoting population, which tends to be poorer, non-white, and younger.
And of course, it could all depend on context with each person's lives at the time. If everything's going fine in your life, then you want big gubment out of your life. If you've just had a medical bankruptcy, or a pipeline just exploded in your community, all of a sudden, regulations become important to the average person. To paraphrase a wise man:
when the pipeline explodes you feel a burning sensation
Getting closer to the State, in a tight situation
Aaron Strife
Banned
Only looking for a silver lining wherever I can. There's a chance we're not in the darkest timeline!
Well, mass death is generally worse than living in a tense environment.
That said, violent self defense is not fascism. Fascism is a specific thing despite its use as a pejorative.
Totally. The ascent of bigotry has made me a bigot against the bigots, and the ascent of fascism has made me feel like we need strong government action to suppress and censor these people.
Hypocritical as hell, but that's Trump's America for ya.
metalslimer
Member
Is it just me or has Trump been much less active this week?
Mr.Shrugglesã
Banned
He got his juice injection via his rally so he's probably just basking.
CrimzonSamurai
Member
Session's scheme to crack down on legal marijuana has got to come back to bite them, right? I mean that's basically telling the entire libertarian-leaning faction of the GOP from the western states to go sit and spin.
smokeymicpot
Beat EviLore at pool.
It won't. They will label it has stopping the opioid problem.
CrimzonSamurai
Member
I know that they're framing it that way but I really don't think that's going to hit home for voters in CO, AZ, CA, etc. The opioid problem isn't as big there and the local single-issue activists on the legalization front will go full 10th amendment during the midterms. Seems like an issue that Dems could get a headway with in those states.
Beer Monkey
Member
Legal marijuana helps the opioid problem.
smokeymicpot
Beat EviLore at pool.
It will. These are the same people who got upset about e-mails. If that opioid number goes down they will attach it with it. Just make pieces to it all. Weed-Opioid-Mexicans. Add on to what ever you want.
We might know that others do not. Drugs are bad M'Kay.
Dubbedinenglish
Banned
It's been rolling into the vet care issues too for PTSD.
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