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PoliGAF 2017 |OT1| From Russia with Love

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D

Deleted member 231381

Unconfirmed Member
Crocodile said:
Honestly, I don't think many who were in favor of Ellison have done a good job arguing this point. Even most people in here over the weeks have argued basically "give it to Ellison so some Sanders supporters don't throw a tantrum".
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Not many people here are of the Sanders wing, though, so they wouldn't. You're all corporate shills paid off by CorrectTheRecord to ensure that the neoliberal establishment stamp down on the noble proletarian. Especially Y2kev, who my private investigations can confirm is David Miliband.
 
P

pigeon

Banned
thehypocrite said:
It's nothing, has no value but let's not give it to the collective that wants it the most because ..... Reasons. No concessions, fuck them!!!
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For clarity, this is my argument too, should've been Ellison.

It's a totally irrelevant office, but the crazy left people are all pissed off about it because they are stupid, so just let them have it.

The thing that strikes me is that it's really unclear why Perez is running at all. If it's really because Obama wanted to block Ellison, that is a huge problem for me, because Obama is supposed to be a sensible technocrat, and the entire point of being a sensible technocrat is that you DON'T GET EMOTIONAL ABOUT DUMB SHIT. Since the DNC chair is meaningless and both candidates will do a good job, the technocrats should have stayed the fuck out.

The fact that they didn't strikes me as a dagger in the heart of their justification for running the party! Literally the point is that they're supposed to be the rational ones and you should support them if you believe in good policy. If the fight actually is between two petty, incompetent factions then I may as well just join the socialists instead.

So that's a big concern for me personally -- I don't understand why anybody wanted Perez to run when Ellison was endorsed by Schumer and Sanders.

However, given that Perez won obviously everybody needs to SHUT THE FUCK UP because we're literally fighting Nazis here, come on.
 
C

Carpe Libertatem

Member
Crab said:
Right, but Sanders didn't endorse Perez for a reason (lobbyist donations).
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Bernie endorsed Ellison the day he announced (Nov 10), Perez didn't announce he was running until a month later

So, no, that's not the reason. He didn't endorse Perez because he already endorsed Ellison by the time Perez had announced.
 
T

thehypocrite

Member
The Technomancer said:
On November 8th we all had to become adults. Immedietly.
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I guess all our brains changed by osmosis then. Good to know, however the evidence seems to prove you wrong on that.
Zereta said:
Look, I'm an Ellison supporter. I was rooting for him. More because he has experience in mobilizing.

However, as an Ellison supporter, I can recognize that the election of Perez is only bad if as an Ellison supporter, you refuse to concede that Perez and Ellison (and Buttigeg) largely ran on the same platform. They want the same things.

Only difference is one endorsed by Warren and Sanders, and the other by Biden (possibly Obama).

None of this mattered. What, are you worried about the symbolism? Who gives a shit? Ellison and Perez both are advocating unity.
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Not really, they aren't equal even though their platforms are similar. Ellison displayed enthusiasm and engagement to the most vibrant but unfortunately broke part of the base.
 
B

Bonen no Max'd

Banned
Crab said:
Not many people here are of the Sanders wing, though, so they wouldn't. You're all corporate shills paid off by CorrectTheRecord to ensure that the neoliberal establishment stamp down on the noble proletarian. Especially Y2kev, who my private investigations can confirm is David Miliband.
Click to expand...
I thought Miliband was one of the good ones? Or is Ed the good one and David is the neoliberal sellout corporate shill?
 
D

Deleted member 231381

Unconfirmed Member
Wilsongt said:
Oh, right, I forgot you were in the UK. Right are you all up in arms about who American Democrats voted for DNC chair again?
Click to expand...

You think Trump doesn't affect us? That Russian encroachment on Europe couldn't have severe consequences, even war (that would be fought on my soil)? That the far-right doesn't have strong international links that mean when Farage rises, Trump rises, then Le Pen rises?

I can also be found on the Schulzwagon, the Hamonmobile, and the Plibersekplane, although to be fair I can actually vote for that last one.
 
D

Deleted member 231381

Unconfirmed Member
Bonen no Max'd said:
I thought Miliband was one of the good ones? Or is Ed the good one and David is the neoliberal sellout corporate shill?
Click to expand...

Ed was the good one
still in ruins, such deep ruins
. David was the lizardman and/or banana robot.

pg-38-bananas-2-rex.jpg


Yes, the picture did need to be that large.
 
T

thehypocrite

Member
pigeon said:
For clarity, this is my argument too, should've been Ellison.

It's a totally irrelevant office, but the crazy left people are all pissed off about it because they are stupid, so just let them have it.

The thing that strikes me is that it's really unclear why Perez is running at all. If it's really because Obama wanted to block Ellison, that is a huge problem for me, because Obama is supposed to be a sensible technocrat, and the entire point of being a sensible technocrat is that you DON'T GET EMOTIONAL ABOUT DUMB SHIT. Since the DNC chair is meaningless and both candidates will do a good job, the technocrats should have stayed the fuck out.

The fact that they didn't strikes me as a dagger in the heart of their justification for running the party! Literally the point is that they're supposed to be the rational ones and you should support them if you believe in good policy. If the fight actually is between two petty, incompetent factions then I may as well just join the socialists instead.

So that's a big concern for me personally -- I don't understand why anybody wanted Perez to run when Ellison was endorsed by Schumer and Sanders.

However, given that Perez won obviously everybody needs to SHUT THE FUCK UP because we're literally fighting Nazis here, come on.
Click to expand...
I agree with you pigeon, I'll even shut up. Back to the Nazi fight. Go Perez, Ellison and Mayor Pete whose last name I can't pronounce.
 
J

JesseEwiak

Member
Crab said:
You think Trump doesn't affect us? That Russian encroachment on Europe couldn't have severe consequences, even war (that would be fought on my soil)? That the far-right doesn't have strong international links that mean when Farage rises, Trump rises, then Le Pen rises?

I can also be found on the Schulzwagon, the Hamonmobile, and the Plibersekplane, although to be fair I can actually vote for that last one.
Click to expand...

I mean, maybe come back to us and tell us what we should do when the Labour party isn't a rolling tire fire being beaten with sticks by everybody inside and outside of the party? The Corbyn Experience is a good preview of what happens when you hand your party over to the Dumb Left.
 
D

Deleted member 231381

Unconfirmed Member
JesseEwiak said:
I mean, maybe come back to us and tell us what we should do when the Labour party isn't a rolling tire fire being beaten with sticks by everybody inside and outside of the party? The Corbyn Experience is a good preview of what happens when you hand your party over to the Dumb Left.
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I don't run the Labour Party. If I did, we'd be winning. I'm a winner. Won every time I ever ran for election. Tremendously electable, tremendous.

But being serious a) seeing an implosion up close like this is a great way to understand how to avoid them in the future, and b) if you're comparing Momentum to those supporting Ellison you have nooooo idea what you're talking about and I may as well just post more pictures of banana people.

EDIT: Or this, which even has a wikipedia article.
 
B

Bonen no Max'd

Banned
Yeah I guess it's just time to move on to making sure Perriello is the next governor of Virginia. Maybe he should run for president if he wins.

thehypocrite said:
I agree with you pigeon, I'll even shut up. Back to the Nazi fight. Go Perez, Ellison and Mayor Pete whose last name I can't pronounce.
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I think he would've won if he'd ran as Mayor Butts instead of Mayor Pete honestly. It'd make me more inclined to support him.
 
J

Joe Shlabotnik

Banned
OT thread about the election of a political party organizer at more than 500 posts in an hour.

I legit have no idea how there could be any other reaction or opinion on any of this besides "oh, okay".
 
D

Deleted member 231381

Unconfirmed Member
pigeon if you keep on like this, Spielberg's going to start casting you as his leading man
 
J

JesseEwiak

Member
pigeon said:
the fact that they literally want to murder me and my daughter kind of preoccupies my thoughts sometimes for some reason
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But, pigeon, have you sat down and reasoned with them rationally whether or not you're as much a human being deserving of basic rights as they are? I mean, ya' know, both sides and all.
 
T

thehypocrite

Member
Bonen no Max'd said:
Yeah I guess it's just time to move on to making sure Perriello is the next governor of Virginia. Maybe he should run for president if he wins.

I think he would've won if he'd ran as Mayor Butts instead of Mayor Pete honestly. It'd make me more inclined to support him.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I'm sure that last name impacted his prospects.
 
F

Fox318

Member
Joe Shlabotnik said:
OT thread about the election of a political party organizer at more than 500 posts in an hour.

I legit have no idea how there could be any other reaction or opinion on any of this besides "oh, okay".
Click to expand...
It's perception.

Same reason why Micheal Steele got so much press after Obama won and he became his party's respetive chairman.

Plus unlike the GOP the Democratic party had a scandle that forced the resignation of its chairwoman and her replacement had a scandle of her own.

It's a visable target. State chairs of purple states are a more important thing to look at right now but this has a naritive as well as a connection with the Sanders 's Establishment dems.
 
P

pigeon

Banned
Is it really not butt gig

I assumed it was butt gig and also that if it weren't butt gig he would currently be the DNC chair
 
E

eBay Huckster

Member
Bonen no Max'd said:
If we're following this line of reasoning, should we only run white men who can just vote like women or minorities since symbolism and representation doesn't matter?
Click to expand...

i mean, yeah, that's an already absurd line of reasoning taken to further heights of absurdity. i'm a mixed-race disabled guy, i am very intimately familiar with the importance of symbolism and representation. the point i was trying to make there was that at least with the POTUS office there are very real tradeoffs between policy and symbolism that we have to navigate in order to maximize both our policy gains and the representation of people who aren't The Default.

what the hell are the tradeoffs for the DNC chair? someone does administrative shit slightly better or worse, or a bunch of people who as far as i can tell have literally spent the past year with goalposts on wheels get mad for about a week before they move onto the next imagined slight against them.
 
O

Ogodei

Member
Crab said:
They are both involved, actually. In fact IIRC one of Keith's ideas was trying to reduce institutional overlap because of how inefficient it is making the whole process.
Click to expand...

Frankly the federal races should all be under one umbrella. There's good reason for the state and local parties to be a bit separated due to regional differences, but no reason to have a DCCC and DSCC as separate organs from the DNC.
 
T

thefro

Member
eBay Huckster said:
what the hell are the tradeoffs in the DNC chair? someone does administrative shit slightly better or worse, or a bunch of people who as far as i can tell have literally spent the past year with goalposts on wheels get mad for about a week before they move onto the next imagined slight against them.
Click to expand...

In this case, a lot of those people would have probably been mad about Keith "selling out" and appointing Perez as Deputy Chair had the roles been reversed.
 
W

Wilsongt

Member
An investigation by Fox 25 in Oklahoma has confirmed that Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) Administrator Scott Pruitt used a private email account to conduct official business while he was the state’s attorney general, directly contradicting what he told the Senate during his confirmation hearing.
Click to expand...

Time to lock up Hillary over Pruitt's private email use.
 
B

Bonen no Max'd

Banned
eBay Huckster said:
i mean, yeah, that's an already absurd line of reasoning taken to further heights of absurdity. i'm a mixed-race disabled guy, i am very intimately familiar with the importance of symbolism and representation. the point i was trying to make there was that at least with the POTUS office there are very real tradeoffs between policy and symbolism that we have to navigate in order to maximize both our policy gains and the representation of people who aren't The Default.

what the hell are the tradeoffs for the DNC chair? someone does administrative shit slightly better or worse, or a bunch of people who as far as i can tell have literally spent the past year with goalposts on wheels get mad for about a week before they move onto the next imagined slight against them.
Click to expand...
like, I'm not quitting the party or voting for a different party unless it's something local that doesn't matter. I'm still firmly anti-Trump and anti-Republican and I don't want to concede any ground or make any common cause and the Democratic party is the best vehicle to stop them electorally so despite frustrations I'll stay with it

But if the position is really so meaningless, why is it so bad to be annoyed that your preferred candidate got shut out mostly because some people panicked about him looking like he would win. If the position doesn't matter then why did Perez get parachuted in seemingly just to make sure Ellison didn't win?
 
E

eBay Huckster

Member
Bonen no Max'd said:
But if the position is really so meaningless, why is it so bad to be annoyed that your preferred candidate got shut out mostly because some people panicked about him looking like he would win. If the position doesn't matter then why did Perez get parachuted in seemingly just to make sure Ellison didn't win?
Click to expand...

dude

i'm literally not saying it's not okay to be annoyed, i'm saying i'm not gonna shy away from calling people out on being fucking morons about it like claiming this alone will lead to a loss in 2020 or that this is ~*e$tabli$hment $ellout$ once again*~
 
W

Wilsongt

Member
sangreal said:
you're funny

it's almost as if they pushed his nomination through because they knew this news was coming out. wait... that's exactly what happened
Click to expand...

Ethics issues and investigations are only relevent when a Democrat does it.

It's hard to continue to be interested in US politics when one party is so blantantly and transparently corrupt.
 
T

thepotatoman

Unconfirmed Member
pigeon said:
For clarity, this is my argument too, should've been Ellison.

It's a totally irrelevant office, but the crazy left people are all pissed off about it because they are stupid, so just let them have it.

The thing that strikes me is that it's really unclear why Perez is running at all. If it's really because Obama wanted to block Ellison, that is a huge problem for me, because Obama is supposed to be a sensible technocrat, and the entire point of being a sensible technocrat is that you DON'T GET EMOTIONAL ABOUT DUMB SHIT. Since the DNC chair is meaningless and both candidates will do a good job, the technocrats should have stayed the fuck out.

The fact that they didn't strikes me as a dagger in the heart of their justification for running the party! Literally the point is that they're supposed to be the rational ones and you should support them if you believe in good policy. If the fight actually is between two petty, incompetent factions then I may as well just join the socialists instead.

So that's a big concern for me personally -- I don't understand why anybody wanted Perez to run when Ellison was endorsed by Schumer and Sanders.

However, given that Perez won obviously everybody needs to SHUT THE FUCK UP because we're literally fighting Nazis here, come on.
Click to expand...

My most optimistic guess is that they didn't want Ellison to be a part timer, and then had too much momentium to quit by the time Ellison announced his intention to do it full time. Otherwise it seems like mostly a faction battle of Obama, Biden, and extreme Bernie haters, vs basically the rest of the party.

And I'm having a hard time figuring out what to say about either, other than just ignoring it from here on out.
 
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