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[Kusagari]

They aren't *exactly* the same, but every DNC candidate is going to be talking about a 50-state strategy. Experience, personality, etc all matter. Perez was able to convince people and Ellison couldn't despite early momentum and big endorsements from all wings of the party.

Again, the irony in your statement is palpable coming from a Bernie supporter.

I honestly doubt there's any real difference between what the two would have done as chair. Regardless, I do think Obama tried a power play with Perez and I don't think it was a good look.

 

[Tall4Life]

What's so bad about Tom Perez?

The Obama camp made him join the race because they didn't want Ellison at all, even though both are pretty much the same otherwise.

 

[tbm24]

He won't clear his throat.

He's taking a page out of the Obama playbook, need husk when you speak.

 

[PBY]

Yep, I'm content with Perez winning. The "liberal wing" are acting like children it's a bad idea to follow their lead. I'm sure some will throw a hissy fit and keep on wishing everything falls apart because they didn't get their way, withdraw and do other self destructive things just so they can say they say "I told you so."

Always love when people who aren't even in the party are the first to declare it's dead when they don't get their way.

A good candidate was going to win today either way. Grats to Perez. Now time to get to work.

I don't even disagree with your overall sentiments - but presenting there aren't any problems/the leftist wing is just a fringe group that will go away is the definition of not learning from past mistakes.

 

[thehypocrite]

If this is really how little it takes to disengage people with Trump as president we are fucked either way

We have thousands of posts, tweets, research that illustrates how fickle democratic voters are. Keep shutting out the grassroots with same old same.

 

[Wilsongt]

So the Democrats are officiallg dead now, right? Time for 100 years of Republican controlled US?

Good. Was getting tired of spineless, bleeding heart liberals, anyway.

 

[Emerson]

You need to stop taking people for granted. "The other guy is worse" isn't enough.

Yeah it is.

If the ultra liberals want to throw a hissyfit and vote for Trump or some shit they can feel free. Make things worse for yourselves.

Everyone needs to get the fuck over it literally this very second. It's over. There is no other goal than the impeachment or otherwise removal of Donald Trump at the earliest possible opportunity.

 

[BlackClouds]

It reflects a party that isn't listening to its base

Who's the base (of the Democratic Party)?

 

[Holmes]

Hi Melkr.

 

[sc0la]

He's more than doubled his follower count & majorly raised his profile, so I think his campaign was a huge success. Won't have trouble raising money/getting media attention.

Running for something to raise your profile, and actually being stuck with the gig are two different things though.

Spoiler

Ask Donald Trump.

But it seems like running was a good play.

 

[Y2Kev]

For the record, I don't really have much problem with Perez. I quite like the guy - you might remember I was suggesting him as an alternative to Tim "Who?" Kaine as Clinton's VP choice. I'm not really disappointed Perez as a person is DNC chair. However, I think the open and obvious rejection of a candidate who clearly had more popular support from the party grassroots was an absolutely terrible message to send. It just cements the DNC as out of touch and encourages disengagement.

But he also had more support from the party establishment. It's kind of why I can't understand how he lost. Ellison had far greater support with party leaders. Why did he suck so much? He must be Hillary Clinton.

You need to stop taking people for granted. "The other guy is worse" isn't enough.

I don't really agree. Yes, you can't win on "Trump sux." But that you could lose on "the dnc chair isn't who your favorite politician endorsed" is kind of silly. I believe someone 4real will run and they will make the case. This is irrelevant and people losing their shit on twitter because of this are idiotic.

 

[metalslimer]

We have thousands of posts, tweets, research that illustrates how fickle democratic voters are. Keep shutting out the grassroots with same old same.

How is Perez the same old same? Keith is also deputy chair so this whole thing is pointless.

I will wait to see what happens when it comes to running actual elections.

 

[eBay Huckster]

Yep, I'm content with Perez winning. The "liberal wing" are acting like children it's a bad idea to follow their lead. I'm sure some will throw a hissy fit and keep on wishing everything falls apart because they didn't get their way, withdraw and do other self destructive things just so they can say they say "I told you so."

the most infuriating part of this is that perez is, by literally every indication, part of the liberal wing

 

[thehypocrite]

I agree with this, but Perez is a very liberal candidate who will do just as good of a job as Ellison would have. If electing him DNC chair is what disengages people than at some point they were going to become disengaged either way



No having a bad candidate with years of baggage and a Russian campaign fucked us.

But you are shutting people with grassroots support, ignoring their voices and claims and then you complain about them being disengaged? Disengagement isn't an irrational outcome in that scenario and its a byproduct of your actions.

 

[BiggNife]

Some of you guys are acting like Perez is the next DWS when in fact he's pretty close to being as progressive as Ellison.

 

[Bonen no Max'd]

But he also had more support from the party establishment. It's kind of why I can't understand how he lost. Ellison had far greater support with party leaders. Why did he suck so much? He must be Hillary Clinton.

Are Obama and Biden no longer powerful influential figures? You are making it sound like he'd consolidated all of the establishment support.

 

[NeoXChaos]

Great job Perez will do for us. I am pleased.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

I agree with this, but Perez is a very liberal candidate who will do just as good of a job as Ellison would have. If electing him DNC chair is what disengages people than at some point they were going to become disengaged either way

That's just terrible reasoning. "Oh, they might have, maybe, become disengaged anyway, so let's disengage them as much as possible now." Even if that's true, which it isn't, this was an especially important issue for a lot of people who just felt the need to be represented and have their voice heard, but even if it was and they disengaged a year or two years down the line, you still lost a year or two years of activism and small donations and community organizing. That has a big impact on your 2018 chances.

Let's face it, there was no real reason for Perez to win this. Anyone going "oh, well, eh? doesn't really matter" is basically just a wounded Clintonite holding a grudge against the Sanders wing for whatever reason not wanting to admit it. There's no connection between "they're exactly the same" and "Perez should win". If it didn't matter to you, but you knew Ellison mattered to other people, then you'd have gone with Ellison. The fact you didn't, and that you can pretend not to care, means that you actually did care, and just didn't have the guts or honesty to admit it and own it.

 

[royalan]

The right man won.

 

[Officerrob]

Make no mistake, Obama still runs the Democrat party

 

[tbm24]

the most infuriating part of this is that perez is, by literally every indication, part of the liberal wing

Liberal wing is defined by a certain gate keeper if you haven't noticed.

 

[Y2Kev]

Are Obama and Biden no longer powerful influential figures? You are making it sound like he'd consolidated all of the establishment support.

Obama didn't even endorse him! If the weird middle of the party prefers Obama over the alternative, I can't say I blame them considering Nina Turner is below them and Chuck Schumer is above them.

 

[shem935]

Weird how some would still want Obama's influence in the democratic party. Crazy right?

 

[Carpe Libertatem]

the most infuriating part of this is that perez is, by literally every indication, part of the liberal wing

Yep, the character attacks on Perez - a man who has spent his life fighting for civil rights (including labor!) - are pretty gross

Weird how some would still want Obama's influence in the democratic party.

Very weird how one of the most popular outgoing presidents in history is still popular in the Democratic Party.

 

[Mr.Shrugglesツ]

The king has spoken.

---
Bonus Ourrevolution release:

Our Revolution on Saturday released the following statement after Tom Perez was elected DNC Chair:
"First and foremost, we want to thank the hundreds of thousands of Our Revolution supporters who made this fight their own. Keith may not have won, but his campaign should serve as a reminder that politics -- done right -- can bring us together.

"Make no mistake: our fight for progress does not end here. While the media has been focused on the race for chair, we have been winning elections within state and local parties. This would not be possible without the grassroots knocking on doors, making human connections, and bringing people together. This is a product of everyday people fighting for a party that stands up for middle and working class families, not special interest. We must continue this work.

"Last night Keith talked about 'bus boy Democrats' - who always want to 'take things off the table' because they don't want to fight. We can no longer accept that. Now is the time to bring it all to the table and to pull up some extra chairs.

"With Trump and his allies controlling Washington, we have to take it upon ourselves to elect progressives -- even if elements of the Democratic Party are locked in complacency."

https://ourrevolution.com/press/our-revolution-statement-dnc-chairmanship-election-results/

 

[Kusagari]

Obama didn't even endorse him! If the weird middle of the party prefers Obama over the alternative, I can't say I blame them considering Nina Turner is below them and Chuck Schumer is above them.

lol you know that Obama was privately backing him and everyone that was voting knew it.

 

[RastaMentality]

The king has spoken.

Happy he wasn't in on any types of bullshit.

Weird how some would still want Obama's influence in the democratic party. Crazy right?

the immensely popular guy who has actually won national elections? insane

 

[Deleted member 231381]

Some of you guys are acting like Perez is the next DWS when in fact he's pretty close to being as progressive as Ellison.

I don't think anyone has actually said this. It's a terrible strawman and intellectually dishonest.

 

[metalslimer]

That's just terrible reasoning. "Oh, they might have, maybe, become disengaged anyway, so let's disengage them as much as possible now." Even if that's true, which it isn't, this was an especially important issue for a lot of people who just felt the need to be represented and have their voice heard, but even if it was and they disengaged a year or two years down the line, you still lost a year or two years of activism and small donations and community organizing. That has a big impact on your 2018 chances.

Let's face it, there was no real reason for Perez to win this. Anyone going "oh, well, eh? doesn't really matter" is basically just a wounded Clintonite holding a grudge against the Sanders wing for whatever reason not wanting to admit it. There's no connection between "they're exactly the same" and "Perez should win". If it didn't matter to you, but you knew Ellison mattered to other people, then you'd have gone with Ellison. The fact you didn't, and that you can pretend not to care, means that you actually did care, and just didn't have the guts or honesty to admit it and own it.

I didn't care who won the race, and would have been happy with Ellison. I actually agree there really was no reason for Perez to win this besides Obama still wanting some hold on the DNC, but Perez is not a part of the Clinton establishment that has ruled the DNC for years.

 

[Wilsongt]

People keep calling Republicans snow flakes, but Democrats are the biggest bunch of fucking babies if they don't get their way. I fucking swear to God.

 

[Bonen no Max'd]

Yep, the character attacks on Perez - a man who has spent his life fighting for civil rights (including labor!) - are pretty gross

luckily no one was writing about how Ellison hates Jews and is a scary Muslim

 

[BiggNife]

Obama didn't even endorse him! If the weird middle of the party prefers Obama over the alternative, I can't say I blame them considering Nina Turner is below them and Chuck Schumer is above them.

Obama didnt "officially" endorse him but it was incredibly obvious Obama wanted him to win and I think the majority of the DNC knew that

In December he made a statement along the lines of saying Perez would be an excellent DNC chair and never ever brought up Ellison

Everyone knew where he landed

 

[Emerson]

Sanders remarks exactly what I hoped they'd be. Move on.

 

[Aylinato]

The king has spoken.

Yes, king of not actually being a democrat

 

[thehypocrite]

How is Perez the same old same? Keith is also deputy chair so this whole thing is pointless.

I will wait to see what happens when it comes to running actual elections.

The same way Clinton was same old same. They keep using the same heuristics and expecting different outcomes.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

People keep calling Republicans snow flakes, but Democrats are the biggest bunch of fucking babies if they don't get their way. I fucking swear to God.

I don't know, on the scale of not ruined -> ruined, you on Election Night was olympic gold level.

 

[Crocodile]

WaPo: "Tom Perez elected to lead DNC in a blow to liberal wing"
let's goooo

Ok that headline is stirring shit for the sake of stirring shit

Who's the base (of the Democratic Party)?

Black Women Sanders diehards

Spoiler

The king has spoken.

Good on Bernie. Saying the right things here in every respect

 

[CygnusXS]

Yep, I'm content with Perez winning. The "liberal wing" are acting like children it's a bad idea to follow their lead. I'm sure some will throw a hissy fit and keep on wishing everything falls apart because they didn't get their way, withdraw and do other self destructive things just so they can say they say "I told you so."

But hey, does anyone know why the youth don't vote reliably?

 

[metalslimer]

Good on Bernie for not stirring the shit with this.

 

[Sibylus]

So, what differs between Perez and Ellison in terms of action plan? You know, the part that actually fucking matters.

 

[Crocodile]

luckily no one was writing about how Ellison hates Jews and is a scary Muslim

I mean those were super gross too. They didn't come from Perez or anyone he has influnce over that I'm aware of. Did they?

 

[Wilsongt]

I don't know, on the scale of not ruined -> ruined, you on Election Night was olympic gold level.

I'm sorry, I didn't realize that being upset that Donald fucking Trump beat Clinton was on the same level as one progressive winning over another for DNC chair.

 

[Y2Kev]

That's just terrible reasoning. "Oh, they might have, maybe, become disengaged anyway, so let's disengage them as much as possible now." Even if that's true, which it isn't, this was an especially important issue for a lot of people who just felt the need to be represented and have their voice heard, but even if it was and they disengaged a year or two years down the line, you still lost a year or two years of activism and small donations and community organizing. That has a big impact on your 2018 chances.

Let's face it, there was no real reason for Perez to win this. Anyone going "oh, well, eh? doesn't really matter" is basically just a wounded Clintonite holding a grudge against the Sanders wing for whatever reason not wanting to admit it. There's no connection between "they're exactly the same" and "Perez should win". If it didn't matter to you, but you knew Ellison mattered to other people, then you'd have gone with Ellison. The fact you didn't, and that you can pretend not to care, means that you actually did care, and just didn't have the guts or honesty to admit it and own it.

Why do you keep blaming "Clintonites" when Perez's inclusion in the race is obviously the work of Obamaland? Unless you think they're the same. Is there really any evidence the legacy Clinton farmhands had anything to do with this at all? From what I can tell, there are no Clinton people who expressed any strong feelings either way on here. I think self preservation is more important for me, frankly

For the record I said I wished Ellison would won so we could avoid the psychological damage people think has been inflicted upon them.

 

[Bonen no Max'd]

I mean those were super gross too. They didn't come from Perez or anyone he has influnce over that I'm aware of. Did they?

was Ellison calling Perez a corporate shill?

 

[Officerrob]

Ellison not gaining a since vote on the second ballot is extremely surprising

 

[Tranqueris]

The king has spoken.

Unfortunately history has shown that sometimes even Bernie has a hard a time trying to talk to these people and tell them, "hey, this is still a good choice."

 

[The Technomancer]

The same way Clinton was same old same. They keep using the same heuristics and expecting different outcomes.

I mean, if what the "far left" wants is people who literally have no experience in politics so they're not tainted sorry but I'm not sure how we work with that

 

[Carpe Libertatem]

luckily no one was writing about how Ellison hates Jews and is a scary Muslim

I'm not sure Jewish organizations and people like Dershowitz (wrongfully) taking issue with some of his past comments is comparable to how Tom Perez has been framed

And I supported Ellison, fwiw

 

[Deleted member 231381]

Why do you keep blaming "Clintonites" when Perez's inclusion in the race is obviously the work of Obamaland? Unless you think they're the same. Is there really any evidence the legacy Clinton farmhands had anything to do with this at all?

I was talking about people in this thread, actually, who spent weeks telling us how little they cared and have suddenly broken out the joyous fist-pumping on Perez's win.

For the record I said I wished Ellison would won so we could avoid the psychological damage people think has been inflicted upon them.

No, it actually has been inflicted. Things like these do matter to people. Symbolism is enormously important. If you made Obama a white guy, he'd have passed basically all the same legislation (probably more, having to battle against racism) and done his job just as well, but that doesn't mean he'd have had the same impact on America. Sometimes people are important for who they are, and what they represent. Ellison came to represent a DNC willing to listen. Perez came to represent a DNC that was going to continue down the same old path.

 

[BiggNife]

So, what differs between Perez and Ellison in terms of action plan? You know, the part that actually fucking matters.

As far as I know, basically nothing.

They both had a very strong focus on grassroots and wanted a revival of the 50 state plan.