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PoliGAF 2017 |OT3| 13 Treasons Why

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numble

Member
I remember. But I don't understand your argument here... if Dems threatened a shutdown in relation to AHCA, and the House simply moved voting on the bill back a week, then what is the point of ever threatening a shut down? Are you suggesting Pelosi, Schumer, et al. should say "drop this bill or we won't vote for a clean CR to keep the government will be open" will be met with Ryan and McConnell agreeing to those terms and then actually starting from scratch on healthcare afterward? Any shutdown threat contingent on AHCA will just be met with moving AHCA to the next opportunity for a floor vote.

You aren't reading what I am saying. If the GOP was forced to use reconciliation to pass the CR, their legislative plan to use reconciliation to pass AHCA and the tax cuts is in jeopardy. It isn't about moving AHCA down the line, it is about making AHCA harder to pass.

The government shutdown threats seemed to mostly be geared towards getting a CR with spending that the Democrats wanted. I think a victory on a short-term spending bill is less important, especially since it has no real long term legislative impact.

I think the GOP gave the Democrats what they wanted on the CR so that they could avoid the embarrassment of a shutdown and they went ahead and passed AHCA 6 days after the CR was passed.

In the obstructionist Democrats scenario:

Option 1 would be that the government would be shut down, the GOP and Trump would be embarrassed at the government shutting down on Trump's 100th day and they would spend the next days/weeks figuring a way out (they would not be passing AHCA 6 days after the shutdown).

Option 2 would be that the GOP uses up a reconciliation opportunity simply to avoid the government shutdown on Trump's 100th day of office.. They would need to reevaluate their legislative plan for the year because they would need to cram AHCA and tax cuts into one bill, the final reconciliation bill for 2017. It is less likely that they would have passed AHCA 6 days after using reconciliation to pass the CR, because AHCA would need to be bundled with the tax cuts now that there is only 1 reconciliation opportunity.

Option 3 would be that they just get rid of the legislative filibuster and pass a CR without Democratic votes or reconciliation. That also means that they can pass AHCA and tax cuts with 50 votes since the filibuster is gone. But it is doubtful that the GOP would kill the filibuster just to pass a short-term spending bill.
 

Blader

Member
I like Favs, but it's sniping like this that drives me up the wall: https://twitter.com/jonfavs/status/874631905076957185

@jonfavs
Jon Favreau Retweeted
If Heller's a yes this is gonna pass.
What's the plan, Senate Democrats?

If Heller's a yes and the bill is gonna pass, THEN THE BILL IS GONNA PASS.

@burgessev
Sen. Graham on press restrictions in Capitol: "of all the problems in America, y'all are pretty down the list"
https://twitter.com/burgessev/status/874662874970509312

Another genius move of 5th-dimensional chess from Lindsay "The Prince" Graham, in his years-long strategy to depose Donald Trump and position himself as the new Supreme Leader of the Republican Party.

You aren't reading what I am saying. If the GOP was forced to use reconciliation to pass the CR, their legislative plan to use reconciliation to pass AHCA and the tax cuts is in jeopardy. It isn't about moving AHCA down the line, it is about making AHCA harder to pass.

The government shutdown threats seemed to mostly be geared towards getting a CR with spending that the Democrats wanted. I think a victory on a short-term spending bill is less important, especially since it has no real long term legislative impact.

I think the GOP gave the Democrats what they wanted on the CR so that they could avoid the embarrassment of a shutdown and they went ahead and passed AHCA 6 days after the CR was passed.

In the obstructionist Democrats scenario:

Option 1 would be that the government would be shut down, the GOP and Trump would be embarrassed at the government shutting down on Trump's 100th day and they would spend the next days/weeks figuring a way out (they would not be passing AHCA 6 days after the shutdown).

Option 2 would be that the GOP uses up a reconciliation opportunity simply to avoid the government shutdown on Trump's 100th day of office.. They would need to reevaluate their legislative plan for the year because they would need to cram AHCA and tax cuts into one bill, the final reconciliation bill for 2017. It is less likely that they would have passed AHCA 6 days after using reconciliation to pass the CR, because AHCA would need to be bundled with the tax cuts now that there is only 1 reconciliation opportunity.

Option 3 would be that they just get rid of the legislative filibuster and pass a CR without Democratic votes or reconciliation. That also means that they can pass AHCA and tax cuts with 50 votes since the filibuster is gone. But it is doubtful that the GOP would kill the filibuster just to pass a short-term spending bill.

I understand your argument just fine. I understood it the first time. I just happen to think "we won't vote to fund the government unless you abandon AHCA" is an inherently toothless threat from the Democrats when there's no reason to ever believe the GOP will respond to that, and I don't think cramping their reconciliation calendar a little more is any kind of gain. So what if they have to cram AHCA and tax cuts into one bill? Either they do and it works, or they don't and taxes get pushed back into a reconciliation bill for next year. Yeah, we've really derailed their agenda there, didn't we? And hey look at that, just in time for the midterms, some modest tax cuts coming to the American middle class to remind them of how great their Republican senators and congresspeople are!

Asking for the third time now: do you think Dems should refuse to lift the debt ceiling without winning concessions on healthcare and/or taxes?
 

Wilsongt

Member
Comey friend Richman tells me he is turning over the Comey memo to the FBI and that the special counsel's office is in touch with Judiciary

https://twitter.com/mkraju/status/874668693208391681

Retroactively charge Comey with leaking classified info!


Donald J. Trump @realDonaldTrump

2 million more people just dropped out of ObamaCare. It is in a death spiral. Obstructionist Democrats gave up, have no answer = resist!
9:56 AM · Jun 13, 2017


Dropped out, or lost coverage?

*throws it into the spin machine* definitely dropped out.

Sad!
Also, fuck Dumpling for trying to appropriate "resist".
 

smokeymicpot

Beat EviLore at pool.

Wilsongt

Member
This whole country can get fucked.

Immigration officials have rounded up dozens of Chaldean Christians living in Michigan, sparking protests from family members and advocates who say deporting the detainees back to Iraq is equivalent to a “death sentence.”

According to The Detroit News, Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) agents began their crack down on immigrant Chaldean Christians over the weekend, arresting anywhere from 40 to 100 people at or near their homes — mostly on Sunday. More arrests are expected throughout the week.

ICE’s Detroit field office claimed in a statement to ThinkProgress that all of those arrested had criminal convictions such as “homicide, rape, aggravated assault” and others. But reports abound of ICE detaining people who lack criminals records, or whose crimes primarily involve immigration violations.

Regardless, advocates say many Chaldeans arrested by ICE already served their sentences for smaller crimes years ago, and that sending them back to Iraq will only expose them to persecution.
 
One of the reasons now they are saying which is bullshit because they got Burr's pin number last week when they stopped at the ATM.

Incredible defense of cracking down on TV cameras from Senator Tim Scott: cameras could catch the PIN numbers of senators at ATM machines.

https://twitter.com/pdmcleod/status/874668144027205632

Which is weird because this happened.
NEW: Ranking Rules Cmte Sen. Klobuchar says Chairman Shelby told her he would not limit access to the press
https://twitter.com/kasie/status/874671733432877056
 
This whole thing is strange especially during the Health Care bill being done in secret and Sessions later today.

And now this.
Kasie Hunt‏Verified account @kasie 6m6 minutes ago
More
KLOBUCHAR comments suggest access restrictions have been dropped -- but we are checking to confirm.


I have no idea what is going on now? This has to be a play to get people off the bill but seems that it is doing the opposite now.
 

kirblar

Member
Because I think being needlessly defeatist and not willing to actually fight even though you know you'll lose is a terrible strategy that depresses our base.

So yeah, it's a totally valid response. I'm very disappointed!

I say this to try to end the conversation because we're not going to agree and I fundamentally think you're POV on this is flawed. Don't be surprised that I'm angry about it.
Living through George W. Bush manufacturing evidence to support a pre-9/11 pre-planned invasion to Iraq that I could see completely through, but no one else but like Krugman and a minority of other vocal individuals could see through or be willing to stand up for, followed by Kerry's defeat, followed by a landslide in '06 because Iraq failed, followed by the Tea Party Wave in '10 DIRECTLY AFTER A RECESSION THE GOP CAUSED, gave me a very dim view on the American electorate, yes.

This is not defeatism. It is an acknowledgement that when the GOP gets in power, they are going to use and abuse it. This is what they do. Norms do not matter to them. And they are almost never held accountable by the voters for it. It has happened before and will happen again. Doesn't mean we don't fight, but if they REALLY want to do something? They'll do it. External pressure will be much more effective than internal clogging.

This is why I'm looking for the bright spots. Paul Ryan having to go to Pelosi for the CR votes. The bipartisan Russia sanctions. I want them to be doing this shit. Leverage their internal fractures. And I don't want to sacrifice it at the altar of moves done only to placate an ignorant vocal portion who actually thinks norms and rules bother a man like Mitch McConnell. Because for this portion of the population, nothing will ever be good enough, because they're living in a self-created world where the only reason the GOP wins because the Dems let them.

I don't know if there's an age gap here (I'm 33) but I kinda suspect there might be?

(edit: I'm cool w/ dropping it here btw - we clearly have radically different perspectives.)
 
And now this.
Kasie Hunt‏Verified account @kasie 6m6 minutes ago
More
KLOBUCHAR comments suggest access restrictions have been dropped -- but we are checking to confirm
I have no idea what is going on now? This has to be a play to get people off the bill but seems that it is doing the opposite now.

It confuses me, too. Trump may be stupid, but some of these senators are smart enough to know that blocking press access would only increase interest and elicit backlash. Maybe McConnell and co. really DID make an uncharacteristic blunder.
 

smokeymicpot

Beat EviLore at pool.
new Gallup poll of Americans on Trump performance as president: 36% approve, 60% disapprove. highest level of disapproval of his presidency

https://twitter.com/JohnJHarwood/status/874674011967557638

Getting lower and lower.

It confuses me, too. Trump may be stupid, but some of these senators are smart enough to know that blocking press access would only increase interest and elicit backlash. Maybe McConnell and co. really DID make an uncharacteristic blunder.

This is a McConnell move. He knew what he was doing or trying to do.
 

Blader

Member
Now here's something that would actually stop AHCA:

@TopherSpiro
Reporters need to confirm this, but I'm hearing the Parliamentarian has ruled Trumpcare can't ban tax credits for plans that cover abortion.

https://twitter.com/TopherSpiro/status/874637319030046721

Unlike squishy moderates who will fold when given the first opportunity to do so, the hardcore conservative zealots will not vote for a bill that doesn't also kill tax credits for abortion services. And they'll have enough support from anti-abortion groups to feel protected enough to do so.

Of course, Pence could just overrule the parliamentarian/McConnell could move to replace her. Actually, that's probably more likely that conservatives refusing to vote for the bill. Well, fuck.
 
Aaaaand there it is. Forget ATMs, their bill has hit a snag and they don't want it reported on. Trying to block the press means they're scared in this case.
 

numble

Member
Aaaaand there it is. Forget ATMs, their bill has hit a snag and they don't want it reported on. Trying to block the press means they're scared in this case.
The Parliamentarian is ruling on the House bill language, which is public anyway.
Mike Pence can overrule the Parliamentarian by law.
 
https://twitter.com/mkraju
DCN4dhAU0AA2oyh.jpg:large

Someone fucked up bad here.
 
Kasie Hunt‏Verified account
@kasie
Follow
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Kasie Hunt Retweeted Dylan Byers
What matters is whether decades of precedent will be broken

So far we have not been told we are allowed to resume hallway interviews.

This in reference to the statement from Shelby. Someone is doing this behind the Committee.
 
Then why the hell have been talking like the Parliamentarian matters here? She's meaningless if that's the case.

Long standing rules are long standing rules. Fuck with the rules and you let the cat out of the bag. Fucking with the parliamentarian is only a couple rungs below fucking with the filibuster.
 

Wilsongt

Member
Fuck this orange mother fucker

SAN FRANCISCO — The Trump administration on Monday threw out a new rule intended to limit the numbers of endangered whales and sea turtles getting caught in fishing nets off the West Coast, saying existing protections were already working.

Economically, the new rule would have had "a much more substantial impact on the fleet than we originally realized," said Michael Milstein, a spokesman with the federal fisheries service, which killed the rule.

The rule would have applied to fewer than 20 fishing vessels that use mile-long fishing nets to catch swordfish off California and Oregon. The change would have shut down the drift gillnet fishing for swordfish for up to two seasons if too many of nine groups of whales, sea turtles or dolphins were getting caught in the nets.
 
Everyone knows the plan sucks, the vast majority of the country opposes it, democrats are actively opposing it. Delaying this by two weeks is not a hill to die on when it kills various other things that need to be done (Russian sanctions, Sessions hearing, etc).

Pretty fucking tired of liberals demanding bullshit because it makes them feel better.

Making an unpopular bill sit in the sun for 2 weeks is absolutely a worthwhile tactic. This isn't about feeling better. It's the correct strategy and it happens to be the moral thing to do. If you aren't willing to go to the mat for 24 million people having healthcare, wtf are you even doing?
 

kirblar

Member
Making an unpopular bill sit in the sun for 2 weeks is absolutely a worthwhile tactic. This isn't about feeling better. It's the correct strategy and it happens to be the moral thing to do. If you aren't willing to go to the mat for 24 million people having healthcare, wtf are you even doing?
It won't. Mitch will just change the rules on you. There are times (SC Fillibuster) when this is the right move.

The Senate bill will be w/ the CBO for about two weeks anyway.
 

Ogodei

Member
And now this.
Kasie Hunt‏Verified account @kasie 6m6 minutes ago
More
KLOBUCHAR comments suggest access restrictions have been dropped -- but we are checking to confirm.


I have no idea what is going on now? This has to be a play to get people off the bill but seems that it is doing the opposite now.

It seems like somebody pulled this move in Shelby's name behind Shelby's back.

Heads are going to roll somewhere. Or Shelby just realizes how bad a look this is and is reversing course but denying he was ever involved.
 
Now here could be something. The dossier says that Trump has fairly little real estate in Russia - not for lack of trying - but has done many shady deals with the Chinese.

Remember when that RNC fund raising site got raided by the FBI a month ago? Honestly, I would imagine we're going to see more and more stuff like this moving forward in rapid succession.
 

smokeymicpot

Beat EviLore at pool.
Well mark down September 5th.

https://www.bloomberg.com/politics/...-says-he-ll-testify-before-panel-in-september

President Donald Trump's longtime personal lawyer said he's been summoned to appear before the House Intelligence Committee in September, as multiple investigations into possible Russian contacts by the president's associates accelerate in Congress.

Michael Cohen said he's been asked to testify Sept. 5 in front of the House panel, which got sidetracked in its Russia investigation after Chairman Devin Nunes, a California Republican, was forced to recuse himself because of a controversy over his handling of classified material related to the probe.

Couple of sources say the Jared/Bannon war is back -- and Jared is worried Bannon is pushing a new round of negative stories about him...

https://twitter.com/GlennThrush/status/874688899003625473
 
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