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PoliGAF 2017 |OT4| The leaks are coming from inside the white house

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I

IggyChooChoo

Member
Ether_Snake said:
I still think the reason Trump called Flynn at 3am to ask him if the US dollar should be strong or weak is proof he was asking Flynn to tell him what policies he should favor because Flynn was the one communicating with a foreign government to establish policies to enact, and it's why Trump is so desperate to get Flynn cleared; he knows it leads to literal treason.
Click to expand...
This seems increasingly plausible to me. Along with the theory that Cambridge Analytica was passing along voter/precinct data to the Russians to stovepipe targeted fake news into the the swing states.
 
R

royalan

Member
Maledict said:
Um, there are many branches of Christianity, and there's absolutely no reason for evangelical protestants to give a single shit about what the pope says, heck, for many years they considered the pope the antichrist (and some still do!).

The issue with the religious block vote is complicated. It's not that they are dumb, or that they ignore how bad Trump is. It's not even that they are hypocritical - they *know* he's a complete dick. But evangelical faith also has the strong notion that god works through flawed champions (David etc), and that a single issue can be more important that a persons character. If you honestly think that abortion is murdering babies, then the candidate more opposed to that is the one you will vote for regardless of what an evil, immoral person he is personally. Saving innocent babies lives is more important than Donald trump being crude, cheating on his wife, and generally being a dick.

It's a good reason why playing for the elderly evangelical vote is a complete waste of time. Until the Democratic Party changes its stance on abortion (which let's hope to fuck it never does!) those voters are out of reach no matter how religious the D candidate is and how evil and immoral the R candidate is.
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I know this is the conventional wisdom, but I call bullshit on this wisdom.

Black people consistently rank as the most devout group in the US, but we overwhelmingly reject Republican Evangelical bullshit because we realize how bad it would be for us overall. Our faith doesn't turn us into one issue voters.

Abortion, like "fiscal responsibility", is the convenient excuse.
 
R

RumbleHumble

Banned
Not said:
I'll say. It's stronger than ever.

Religion's what's keeping white supremacy afloat.
Click to expand...

Most major organized religions are explicitly against white supremacy despite its rise among its white adherents, which proves the initial point that organized religion doesn't really mean much to its white clergy.

I could see an argument being made that Neo-Nazis/KKK are an organized religion though.
 
R

RumbleHumble

Banned
royalan said:
I know this is the conventional wisdom, but I call bullshit on this wisdom.

Black people consistently rank as the most devout group in the US, but we overwhelmingly reject Republican Evangelical bullshit because we realize how bad it would be for us overall. Our faith doesn't turn us into one issue voters.

Abortion, like "fiscal responsibility", is the convenient excuse.
Click to expand...

And yet another dimension on all this I failed to consider. Damn I feel like a dumbass with that initial post.
 
I

IggyChooChoo

Member
PBY said:
Damn, this WH really has abolished the on-camera press briefings.

I wish the press would uniformly just say fuckit and turn on their cameras. I find this enormously frustrating.
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Footage of a journalist getting dragged out of the White House for filming a press briefing would really be something.
 
M

Maledict

Member
royalan said:
I know this is the conventional wisdom, but I call bullshit on this wisdom.

Black people consistently rank as the most devout group in the US, but we overwhelmingly reject Republican Evangelical bullshit because we realize how bad it would be for us overall. Our faith doesn't turn us into one issue voters.

Abortion, like "fiscal responsibility", is the convenient excuse.
Click to expand...

When I said the religious vote, I was talking specifically about the white evangelical Protestant churches to whom abortion really is a single issue. They are fairly unique in that respect - Catholics aren't a block vote, and most other religions aren't either or than possibly Judaism voting heavily for democrats (and even that's not a single issue item).

Abortion really does mean that much to some of these people. They are that fucking nuts,
 
R

RumbleHumble

Banned
Maledict said:
When I said the religious vote, I was talking specifically about the white evangelical Protestant churches to whom abortion really is a single issue. They are fairly unique in that respect - Catholics aren't a block vote, and most other religions aren't either or than possibly Judaism voting heavily for democrats (and even that's not a single issue item).

Abortion really does mean that much to some of these people. They are that fucking nuts,
Click to expand...

Can confirm on that. Some pro-lifers would go so far as to argue the "abortion" problem in this country is worse than slavery.
 
C

chadskin

Member
In an effort to debunk claims that Russia wanted to help him win the election, the president argued that's an illogical conclusion.

He thinks Putin would actually have been happier with Hillary Clinton in the White House because he's building the U.S. military and working to export U.S. energy, which Russia opposes.

"We are the most powerful country in the world and we are getting more and more powerful because I'm a big military person. As an example, if Hillary had won, our military would be decimated. Our energy would be much more expensive. That's what Putin doesn't like about me. And that's why I say, why would he want me? Because from day one I wanted a strong military, he doesn't want to see that," Trump told Robertson.
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http://www1.cbn.com/cbnnews/politic...wing-president-trump-at-the-white-house-today

I thought Hillary was the hawk ... 🤔

Also:
"I think we had an excellent meeting. One thing we did is we had a ceasefire in a major part of Syria where there was tremendous bedlam and tremendous killing. And, by the way, this is now four days. The ceasefire has held for four days. Those (previous) ceasefires haven't held at all. That's because President Putin and President Trump made the deal, and it's held."
Click to expand...

There have already been numerous ceasefire violations and at least one previous ceasefire held two weeks.
 
S

skullmuffins

Banned
Putin - who notably hates Hillary and gets along so well with Trump - would have preferred Hillary as president.

Checks out.

(let's ignore the fake news emails your son leaked that says Russia was literally working to help win you the election)
 
V

VendettaRed07

Member
One of my friends put the situation we are in like this

"I rewatched Death note the other day and it really made me start to think, that Mueller is L.. but instead of L going up against Light Yagami and other worldly Death Gods, trying to expose how he is using a supernatural book to kill whoever he wants.. he's investigating a group of people with the collective intelligence of Ed Edd and Eddy and trying to find out who took all the Jaw Breakers"
 
K

Kusagari

Member
I love how his cultists will eat that statement up even though one of their main talking points was Hillary being elected would lead to war with Russia.
 
K

Kusagari

Member
Trump probably will throw them under the bus if nothing happens, but he's not laying the groundwork for anything. He'll just do it because he's Trump.
 
B

BlastProcessing

Member
@KatyTurNBC
"It was a great G20. We had 20 countries" - Trump on @CBNNews

hose_to_head_king_of_the_hill.gif
 
I

Infinite Stars

Member
The "Protestant" branch that has been growing the most in recent years among White Americans is the Prosperity Gospel,
which rejects not only the Nicean Creed(which is The bedrock of the Religion as a whole) but also Jesus's own teachings. They are "Cultural Christians" who deserve to be blasted as Heretics at every chance, but they won't be, because they've slowly become acceptable.

Trump himself is tied to this heresy, but the fact that no religious leaders is willing to call him out for this because "Mah Abortions". At the risk of running a "No True Scotsman" fallacy, this trend of "
Christianity=Right Wing" is only really true among Caucasian Americans, because as Royalan points out, Black Evangelicals are the most devout group.

The "Gospel" they believe is the American Dream, not the Biblical Gospel, they just conflate the two so they can pretend to be better.
royalan said:
I know this is the conventional wisdom, but I call bullshit on this wisdom.

Black people consistently rank as the most devout group in the US, but we overwhelmingly reject Republican Evangelical bullshit because we realize how bad it would be for us overall. Our faith doesn't turn us into one issue voters.

Abortion, like "fiscal responsibility", is the convenient excuse.
Click to expand...
 
C

Crocodile

Member
Trump will also throw Congress under the bus if the bill becomes law and people start losing their insurance and/or premiums spike. Trump doesn't give a shit about anyone except himself.

Man, I can't decide if the worst aspects of this administration is all the bad things it is doing or all the good things that could be done but that aren't getting done. Just 4 years thrown down the drain.
 
T

Teggy

Member
I mean, no one on the right bothers to ask why when trump said "he" will repeal and replace Obamacare with "something great" the entire thing is being done by other people and he's just waiting to sign whatever it is?
 
I

Ithil

Member
I've long since noticed this problem with fake Christians in the US, who worship a made up White Jesus, money and a false version of America. That's why they claim to be patriots who love freedom, because those words don't mean to them what they actually mean in the English language.

I don't know what to call it, it's certainly not Christianity. Americanism or something.
As you said, they do not follow the Bible or Christian teachings, and the made up teachings they do preach, they don't follow either. They will always say they follow the Bible, but of course, they 100% do not.

It's being fed by the same fake as fuck language peddled by Fox News and right wing radio. That's why you'll hear "patriot", "liberty", freedom" etc bandied about so much by people that in fact hate liberty or justice for non-white Christians and hate 99% of America.
 
A

AntraxSuicide

Banned
Infinite Stars said:
They are "Cultural Christians" who deserve to be blasted as Heretics at every chance, but they won't be, because they've slowly become acceptable.
Click to expand...

Completely agree, but that's sorta the problem with these groups; they're so disconnected that there isn't a figure or body that can do this. In fact, different denominations are basically all cool with each other (save Mormons).
 
R

RumbleHumble

Banned
Ithil said:
I've long since noticed this problem with fake Christians in the US, who worship a made up White Jesus, money and a false version of America. That's why they claim to be patriots who love freedom, because those words don't mean to them what they actually mean in the English language.

I don't know what to call it, it's certainly not Christianity. Americanism or something.
As you said, they do not follow the Bible or Christian teachings, and the made up teachings they do preach, they don't follow either. They will always say they follow the Bible, but of course, they 100% do not.

It's being fed by the same fake as fuck language peddled by Fox News and right wing radio. That's why you'll hear "patriot", "liberty", freedom" etc bandied about so much by people that in fact hate liberty or justice for non-white Christians and hate 99% of America.
Click to expand...

That interpretation is pretty spot on. As a response to "Godless" communism during the Cold War, there was a movement to establish a sort of generic patriotic Christianity as a national religion. This movement can be seen in the adoption of the pledge of allegiance after World War II and amendment to include "under God" in the 1950s, as well as the various attempts to indoctrinate public schools with generally agreed upon religious prayers and ideas like those posed in Engel v. Vitale and Albington School District v. Schempp.

General summary of Engel v. Vitale:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engel_v._Vitale

General summary of Schempp:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abington_School_District_v._Schempp#Subsequent_developments

Pledge of Allegiance Developments:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pledge_of_Allegiance#Addition_of_.22under_God.22
 
A

ArkhamFantasy

Member
Trump doesnt really have to throw the house under the bus, Paul Ryan was doing that himself. "The president was sooooo great in these negotiations! We're just having some growing pains by having to actually govern for a change."

It was almost sad to watch.
 
I

Infinite Stars

Member
Coming this fall to CBS, it's America's new favorite sitcom, Cruz off Ted!

Ithil said:
I've long since noticed this problem with fake Christians in the US, who worship a made up White Jesus, money and a false version of America. That's why they claim to be patriots who love freedom, because those words don't mean to them what they actually mean in the English language.

I don't know what to call it, it's certainly not Christianity. Americanism or something.
As you said, they do not follow the Bible or Christian teachings, and the made up teachings they do preach, they don't follow either. They will always say they follow the Bible, but of course, they 100% do not.

It's being fed by the same fake as fuck language peddled by Fox News and right wing radio. That's why you'll hear "patriot", "liberty", freedom" etc bandied about so much by people that in fact hate liberty or justice for non-white Christians and hate 99% of America.
Click to expand...
They want the advantage of being connected to the "Christian Roots of America"(ignoring, of course, that the founding fathers were largely Deist and not specifically Christian) without having to believe.

I mean, I'm about 75% certain one could argue LBJ was one of the most devout presidents.
AntraxSuicide said:
Completely agree, but that's sorta the problem with these groups; they're so disconnected that there isn't a figure or body that can do this. In fact, different denominations are basically all cool with each other (save Mormons).
Click to expand...
Most Protestants Denominations are cool with each other, but there's the few that view others as all Catholic Heretics. I mean, the lack of a United Protestant Council just to say "No, this is wrong" is one of the reasons why I fell out of faith.
RumbleHumble said:
That interpretation is pretty spot on. As a response to "Godless" communism during the Cold War, there was a movement to establish a sort of generic patriotic Christianity as a national religion. This movement can be seen in the adoption of the pledge of allegiance after World War II and amendment to include "under God" in the 1950s, as well as the various attempts to indoctrinate public schools with generally agreed upon religious prayers and ideas like those posed in Engel v. Vitale and Albington School District v. Schempp.

General summary of Engel v. Vitale:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engel_v._Vitale

General summary of Schempp:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abington_School_District_v._Schempp#Subsequent_developments

Pledge of Allegiance Developments:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pledge_of_Allegiance#Addition_of_.22under_God.22
Click to expand...
Yup, it's Generic Milquetoast Christianity, but with all the substance of "Jesus have us Guns and God Bless America". There's been numerous books written on the marriage of the Right Wing and the Evangelicals in the wake of WW2 outside of the "Commies"
 
F

Futurevoid

Member
Aaron Strife said:
Blaaaargh Democrats aren't doing anything to propose a fix to healthcare, oh hey what's this

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/7/12/15955982/democrats-fix-obamacare
Click to expand...

These Democrats are agitating for a new strategy, one where they speak openly about the health law’s weak spots — particularly the individual market — and how to shore them up. The party has so far been reticent to highlight Obamacare’s problems at a moment when Democrats are fighting against Republican efforts to repeal parts of the law.
Click to expand...

I think the above highlights the frustration some of us are feeling in regards to the strategy as opposed to them "doing nothing". I think the quoted strategy these Democrats are agitating for is the right one. It's not enough to be FOR Obamacare - give people an alternative to the Senate bill that discusses the realities of fixing it (and expanding it for good measure with a public option).
 
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