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PoliGAF 2017 |OT4| The leaks are coming from inside the white house

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F

Fenderputty

Banned
Aaron Strife said:
Blaaaargh Democrats aren't doing anything to propose a fix to healthcare, oh hey what's this

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/7/12/15955982/democrats-fix-obamacare
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IMO this reads like political grandstanding to some degree. They don't address the mandate and how to get more healthy people into the markets effectively. They opted not to make the penalties harsher because it's not popular. A medicare buy in sounds nice but no details on age. No cost cutting for prescriptions.

I mean ... it's good that they're putting something up but this reads like the democratic version of the AHCA.
 
W

whyamihere

Banned
I can't tell if this is a joke.

@KidRock
I have had a ton of emails and texts asking me if this website is real… http://kidrockforsenate.com The answer is an absolute YES.

DEkBTXxXkAAkG4v.jpg:large
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There's no disclaimer language on the website, but.
 
A

Abinash117

Member
Maledict said:
Um, there are many branches of Christianity, and there's absolutely no reason for evangelical protestants to give a single shit about what the pope says, heck, for many years they considered the pope the antichrist (and some still do!).

The issue with the religious block vote is complicated. It's not that they are dumb, or that they ignore how bad Trump is. It's not even that they are hypocritical - they *know* he's a complete dick. But evangelical faith also has the strong notion that god works through flawed champions (David etc), and that a single issue can be more important that a persons character. If you honestly think that abortion is murdering babies, then the candidate more opposed to that is the one you will vote for regardless of what an evil, immoral person he is personally. Saving innocent babies lives is more important than Donald trump being crude, cheating on his wife, and generally being a dick.

It's a good reason why playing for the elderly evangelical vote is a complete waste of time. Until the Democratic Party changes its stance on abortion (which let's hope to fuck it never does!) those voters are out of reach no matter how religious the D candidate is and how evil and immoral the R candidate is.
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There's good points here. They supported Trump in large numbers because they believe he is the one that can reverse the decline of their perception of America which their view of what America should be is in fact declining.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/07/robert-jones-white-christian-america/532587/

Down the home stretch of the 2016 presidential campaign, one of Donald Trump's most consistent talking points was a claim that America's changing demographics and culture had brought the country to a precipice. He repeatedly cast himself as the last chance for Republicans and conservative white Christians to step back from the cliff, to preserve their power and way of life. In an interview on Pat Robertson's Christian Broadcasting Network (CBN) in early September, Trump put the choice starkly for the channel's conservative Christian viewers: ”If we don't win this election, you'll never see another Republican and you'll have a whole different church structure." Asked to elaborate, Trump continued, ”I think this will be the last election that the Republicans have a chance of winning because you're going to have people flowing across the border, you're going to have illegal immigrants coming in and they're going to be legalized and they're going to be able to vote, and once that all happens you can forget it."
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Post-election polling from the Public Religion Research Institute, which I lead, and The Atlantic showed that this appeal found its mark among conservative voters. Nearly two-thirds (66 percent) of Trump voters, compared to only 22 percent of Clinton voters, agreed that ”the 2016 election represented the last chance to stop America's decline."
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Trump's intense appeal to 2016 as the ”last chance" election seems to have spurred conservative white Christian voters to turn out to vote at particularly high rates. Two election cycles ago in 2008, white evangelicals represented 21 percent of the general population but, thanks to their higher turnout relative to other voters, comprised 26 percent of actual voters. In 2016, even as their proportion of the population fell to 17 percent, white evangelicals continued to represent 26 percent of voters. In other words, white evangelicals went from being overrepresented by five percentage points at the ballot box in 2008 to being overrepresented by nine percentage points in 2016.
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The percentage of white Christians in the country fell from 54 percent in 2008 to 47 percent in 2014. That percentage has fallen again in each subsequent year, to 45 percent in 2015 and to 43 percent in 2016. Similarly, the percentage of Americans who supported same-sex marriage rose from 40 percent in 2008 to 54 percent in 2014. That number stayed relatively stable (53 percent) in 2015—the year the Supreme Court legalized same-sex marriage in all 50 states—but jumped to 58 percent in 2016.
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One of the most perplexing features of the 2016 election was the high level of support Donald Trump received from white evangelical Protestants. How did a group that once proudly identified itself as ”values voters" come to support a candidate who had been married three times, cursed from the campaign stump, owned casinos, appeared on the cover of Playboy Magazine, and most remarkably, was caught on tape bragging in the most graphic terms about habitually grabbing women's genitals without their permission?
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Trump's campaign—with its sweeping promise to ”make American great again"—triumphed by converting self-described ”values voters" into what I've called ”nostalgia voters." Trump's promise to restore a mythical past golden age—where factory jobs paid the bills and white Protestant churches were the dominant cultural hubs—powerfully tapped evangelical anxieties about an uncertain future.
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The gravitational pull of nostalgia among white evangelicals was evident across a wide range of public opinion polling questions. Just a few weeks before the 2016 election, 66 percent of white evangelical Protestants said the growing number of newcomers from other countries threatens traditional American customs and values. Nearly as many favored building a wall along the U.S. border with Mexico (64 percent) and temporarily banning Muslims from other countries from entering the U.S. (62 percent). And 63 percent believed that today discrimination against whites has become as big a problem as discrimination against blacks and other minorities.
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They compromise their principles imo to elect an man that goes against to what they stand for to achieve an outcome that they desire. Actually it is a pretty common thing among humans I believe.

In 2011, consistent with the ”values voter" brand and the traditional evangelical emphasis on the importance of personal character, only 30 percent of white evangelical Protestants agreed with this statement. But with Trump at the top of the Republican ticket in 2016, 72 percent of white evangelicals said they believed a candidate could build a kind of moral dike between his private and public life. In a head-spinning reversal, white evangelicals went from being the least likely to the most likely group to agree that a candidate's personal immorality has no bearing on his performance in public office.
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Something similar happen many decades ago with rise of the KKK, I think( it was in a documentary I watched years ago). The KKK hated what was happening in the early 1900s and many white Americans thought the same way too.
 
TheLaughingStock

TheLaughingStock

Member
PBY said:
Chris Hayes perfectly summing up my frustration w/ the reaction to the DTJr emails, and the resulting "nothing matters???" reaction:
https://twitter.com/chrislhayes/status/885220937636999169
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This is why if you believe the collusion story, then a peaceful transition of power should not occurred. Everything should've grinded to a halt until leaders resolved concerns. Once you let alleged Russian agents in peacefully, then everything is tainted, corrupted and entrenched.
 
R

ratcliffja

Member
ivajz said:
Video of the dinner. No photo.
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OK thanks.

GoldenEye 007 said:
Sounds like he's upset Trump isn't doing anything about Clinton. Saying it's his DoJ that is showing inaction here.

So kind of deflecting blame from Democrats, who have none here, but his point is simply to harp on Clinton yet again.
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Even then, it reflects growing frustration with the Trump administration. He's feeling heat from all sides even if it's for different reasons.
 
G

GoldenEye 007

Member
TheLaughingStock said:
This is why if you believe the collusion story, then a peaceful transition of power should not occurred. Everything should've grinded to a halt until leaders resolved concerns. Once you let alleged Russian agents in peacefully, then everything is tainted, corrupted and entrenched.
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The last line of defense that was the Electoral College failed miserably. Things didn't even need to grind to a halt. That body could have acknowledged the situation and simply refused to install Trump/Pence. But yeah...
 
F

FyreWulff

Member
GoldenEye 007 said:
The last line of defense that was the Electoral College failed miserably. Things didn't even need to grind to a halt. That body could have acknowledged the situation and simply refused to install Trump/Pence. But yeah...
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Even more reason to get rid of it. One of the main "keep it" lines parroted constantly is that it would be a failsafe against someone that shouldn't have the office getting in. It completely failed to do so. It wouldn't have even been reversing the will of the people since it would have been in line with the popular vote.
 
B

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
FyreWulff said:
Even more reason to get rid of it. One of the main "keep it" lines parroted constantly is that it would be a failsafe against someone that shouldn't have the office getting in. It completely failed to do so.
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Yea, at this point there's no reason to keep it. The very situation it was meant to prevent has come to pass. What point to it is there now?
 
P

Plinko

Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
VendettaRed07 said:
Lincoln predicted this

3328e29ef0dd3ea32f72add22640f87a--republican-party-favorite-things.jpg


If Kid Fucking Rock gains a seat in the US Senate, the American experiment is finished.
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It's Michigan--anything is possible. If he had been on the ballot in 2016 with Trump on the ballot, there is a very real shot he would have won.
 
P

pigeon

Banned
TheLaughingStock said:
This is why if you believe the collusion story, then a peaceful transition of power should not occurred. Everything should've grinded to a halt until leaders resolved concerns. Once you let alleged Russian agents in peacefully, then everything is tainted, corrupted and entrenched.
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Yeah, but unfortunately the Republicans threatened to cause a popular uprising if we didn't let the Russians take over.
 
A

AntraxSuicide

Banned
B-Dubs said:
Yea, at this point there's no reason to keep it. The very situation it was meant to prevent has come to pass. What point to it is there now?
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Also there are a million different bones thrown to rural states as it is. Even if the EC were to end, this country will still be at the mercy of racists in a lot of ways.
 
P

Prof. Bathtub

Member
B-Dubs said:
Yea, at this point there's no reason to keep it. The very situation it was meant to prevent has come to pass. What point to it is there now?
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Maybe if it was dumped then we'd feel really embarrassed about climate disasters? A measure to preserve slave-states' power aided great ecological evil centuries later, very strange.

And the Bush wars as well, but energy/environment is the one big issue where it is completely impossible to Both Sides yourself, considering the options are something or nothing.
 
B

Beer Monkey

Member
Trump said he spent the first 20 or 25 minutes of his more than two-hour meeting with Putin last Friday in Germany on the election meddling subject.

"I said, did you do it? And he said no, I did not. Absolutely not. I then asked him a second time in a totally different way. He said absolutely not," Trump said.
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That totally takes twenty minutes.
 
S

Spoiled Milk

Banned
pigeon said:
There's a difference between alleged and confessed
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Wait, you were the person from whom I learned that what Bill did with Juanita was probably not consensual.

...or maybe that was ItWasMeantToBe.

But anyway it just seems silly to me to demarcate having a president with serious character flaws as being the end of American democracy when we've already had a long history of them. I seriously doubt Trump (or Clinton) were the first rapists elected president. Andrew Jackson killed someone.
Also Truman murdered hundreds of thousands.
 
R

ratcliffja

Member
Trump could have just asked if they'd work with any investigation and that Russia said that they would "do so to the best of their ability without compromising Russian intelligence." Then Russia could just say that anything more than a cursory inquiry would compromise Russian intelligence. It's not difficult to at least feign an investigation, guys.
 
W

whyamihere

Banned
Imagine thinking this. "I'll never be on the SCOTUS!" when you just started as a state AG six months ago.

@jmartNYT
Hear two issues are holding up @HawleyMO Sen bid: real family concerns & trepidation running for Sen could upend future SCOTUS prospects
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A

Autodidact

Banned
whyamihere said:
Imagine thinking this. "I'll never be on the SCOTUS!" when you just started as a state AG six months ago.
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I like this trend of McCaskill's most credible challengers withdrawing at this early stage - first Wagner, and now Hawley. Though a proficient campaigner, she'll need a bit of that kind of luck.
 
S

skullmuffins

Banned
@yashar

On CNN, @SenatorLankford says the Senate Intelligence Committee found out about the Don Jr/Russian lawyer meeting in April.

edit: from Kushner's updated forms


hmm.
 
A

Autodidact

Banned
I reflexively recoil when I see my senators' names. Never will you find two more hateful, sanctimonious pricks.

...But that piece of news sounds interesting.
 
R

ratcliffja

Member
skullmuffins said:
@yashar

On CNN, @SenatorLankford says the Senate Intelligence Committee found out about the Don Jr/Russian lawyer meeting in April.




hmm.
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If that's true, then that implies that the FBI knew as well. If it's also true that the FBI just found out about the e-mail chain from the NYT story, then there must be more evidence of the meeting.
 
B

Beer Monkey

Member
skullmuffins said:
@yashar

On CNN, @SenatorLankford says the Senate Intelligence Committee found out about the Don Jr/Russian lawyer meeting in April.

hmm.
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The SIC knows a lot of shit for sure. Ever see those videos where Dianne Feinstein for example looks shaken coming out of one of their meetings?

What the public is seeing through the drip-drip-drip of the leaks to the media and the trickle-truth responses from the Trump camp is the beginning of the avalanche, which is why it's dumb to say nothing is happening.
 
D

Dan

No longer boycotting the Wolfenstein franchise
ratcliffja said:
If that's true, then that implies that the FBI knew as well. If it's also true that the FBI just found out about the e-mail chain from the NYT story, then there must be more evidence of the meeting.
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I said it somewhere earlier, but everyone was overreacting to the CNN comment that the feds only recently got the full picture of the meeting. It was obvious they've known about it since at least the revised disclosures, it's the details that were only now becoming clearer.
 
S

skullmuffins

Banned
Dan said:
I said it somewhere earlier, but everyone was overreacting to the CNN comment that the feds only recently got the full picture of the meeting. It was obvious they've known about it since at least the revised disclosures, it's the details that were only now becoming clearer.
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yeah. I think it's true that the email chain was new while the existence of the meeting itself was already known for a while.
 
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