Oh good god you really pulled out the "didnt want it enough" bullshit from sports talk radio.
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PoliGAF 2017 |OT4| The leaks are coming from inside the white house
- Thread starter Spoiled Milk
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ErasureAcer
Banned
Am I? Have I thrown a stone?
Hillary had an economic platform, it was just a real one, not populist soundbites like "Mexicans are stealing your job!" or "Punish Wall Street!". It was complex, like the actual economy. Because it couldn't be said in 10 words or less, the national media didn't cover it, and the average American voter couldn't be bothered to learn more
Queen of talking on the phone
Ziltoidia 9
Member
I don't understand this, I've never got the feeling of dishonesty from Warren. If Bernie indeed wouldn't work out, I feel that she would have massive party support. I just don't think she is the type to even want to be president. She also isn't the type to really get involved, so when she didn't endorse Bernie or anything, I didn't get mad at her. She doesn't like some parts of politics.
whyamihere
Banned
you get me.
Autodidact
Banned
I think you misunderstood him. Warren is honest, but sometimes in politics you have to lie, embellish, or stretch the truth. Neither she nor Hillary really has that skill.
Heather Hurlburt (@natsecHeather) brought up a good point on yesterday's Deep State Radio podcast: The Trump's come from the real estate development and entertainment industries and didn't expect to win the election so she wouldn't be surprised at all if increasingly explicit smoking guns turn up.
Also, she noted that Trump Jr. essentially hated his father for years after he divorced Ivanna (his mom) for Marla Maples and only established a relationship with him later in life, and also that Trump Sr. hasn't always treated Trump Jr., even in his adult years, with much respect.
Also, she noted that Trump Jr. essentially hated his father for years after he divorced Ivanna (his mom) for Marla Maples and only established a relationship with him later in life, and also that Trump Sr. hasn't always treated Trump Jr., even in his adult years, with much respect.
Aaron Strife
Banned
The greatest irony is that the ones who tell the truth are accused of being liars, because the truth isn't always pleasant.
Same as Clinton, she is too much of a dork, she wouldn't be able to get the "soundbites" and sound legit when having to flipflop
Clinton's issue isn't dishonesty. That's the maddening thing about it.
Clinton's issue is that she doesn't project honesty well. That is to say, Clinton is bad at lying. She is fundamentally incapable of projecting faux-sincerity and spouting bullshit.
Think about times when you really saw Clinton gung-ho and sinking her teeth into a speech and had passion. It was normally topics she clearly cared deeply about and held strong opinions on. The reason she's not a good national politician is that she can't do that on-demand, she can't do it w/ stuff she doesn't fully believe in.
Warren is honest as they come, but she has that ivory tower coastal elite stink on her. She talks like a professor (because she is one!) and that doesn't connect with middle America, and she doesn't have a lot of charisma. It's honestly hilarious that someone can say Hillary is a shit candidate and then back Warren in a 2020 run
IggyChooChoo
Member
Speaking as a Kentucky resident, it's the best thing Rand's done for our state* in years.
*commonwealth
Bruh I wasn't talking to you, it was everyone. Also it was a joke.
Spoiled Milk
Banned
Goddammit, seriously?
Republicans Block Effort To Revoke Jared Kushners Security Clearance
Like, WHY? What does he bring to the table other than incompetence?
And why are these Republicans so fucking scared of Trump?
Republicans Block Effort To Revoke Jared Kushners Security Clearance
Like, WHY? What does he bring to the table other than incompetence?
And why are these Republicans so fucking scared of Trump?
ArkhamFantasy
Member
Cant bring themselves to do anything that even remotely looks bad for the party.
Because Trump's base is their party base. The inmates took over the asylum.
Ziltoidia 9
Member
I won't quote everyone but I get now what yall are talking about. I just hadn't ever detected that from Warren, I get the same vibe of "truthiness" from her as I do with Bernie. As for Hillary, I feel all the faux scandals over the years just highlight that issue more for her and it really hurt in the end, to the point where Obama voters in the rust belt were willing to vote for some billionaire opportunistic egomaniac. Which honostly says more about the voters and not Hillary. People should have known what was better for them.
Chained Prometheus
Member
a) His voting block
b) Damage that comes from going against their same-party president
c) They don't want a scandal to break out that reveals they've known that Trump (and the election) was compromised
d) Kremlin has kompromat on other high-level GOP members too
e) Potentially all of the above
Aaron Strife
Banned
American hivemind never likes to admit that we screwed up an election.
Al Gore and John Kerry would have made undeniably better presidents than George W. Bush, but they lost so it's their fault for being boring.
Donald Trump has an 85% approval rating among Republicans. Until that number gets to around 65/60% then nothing major politically will happen. (He started at 89% approval in January)
This number is the key to everything and the answer to most Trump-related and GOP political questions.
http://www.gallup.com/poll/203198/presidential-approval-ratings-donald-trump.aspx
Roland_Gunner
Member
Paul is going the other way and playing to the tea party / libertarian fantasists by attacking the AHCA from the right. Quite clever.
ErasureAcer
Banned
But nearly two-thirds said the economy is in poor shape, and Trump won more than six in 10 of that larger group. per the Washington Post article I linked earlier.
And as said before, she could have had the greatest messaging but the people of Wisconsin didn't hear it because she didn't even try.
You're trying to make Hillary sound smarter than she is. Her economic message is so complex it's unexplainable in simple terms? Really? There's no simplified version? Please.
idiots
Avon Barksdale
Member
Hillary Clinton got around three million more votes.
Going to call bullshit on that "2/3rds" stat: http://www.gallup.com/poll/1609/consumer-views-economy.aspx
The people who are upset about "the economy" are mostly going to be Republicans voting against the incumbent party.
http://www.gallup.com/poll/197474/economic-confidence-surges-election.aspx
"The Economy" in the context of political polling is heavily politicized and completely unreliable as a measure of people's actual views.
The people who are upset about "the economy" are mostly going to be Republicans voting against the incumbent party.
Bonen no Max'd
Banned
Alright ErasureAcer I've got a take for you
what if Hillary is a bad candidate, bad politician, and a debatably bad person who also did not win the bulk of her support in the primary and general because she was a woman?
what if Hillary is a bad candidate, bad politician, and a debatably bad person who also did not win the bulk of her support in the primary and general because she was a woman?
Autodidact
Banned
Stop, you guys. If we're mean to him, he might vote for Trump next time. Remember that our bad messaging and stubbornness make people leave the Democratic Party.
Deuce Deuce
Member
So much for the tolerant left...
Democrats 2020: "Erasure Acer can get fucked, also jobs"
Well she lost the election, so at the very least she ended up being the worst of the two!
I've read accounts of Don Jr.'s roommates at Penn who saw Trump smack his son around.
Just because people thought the economy was bad doesn't mean it was. The economy was doing pretty alright, and if you want proof that it was all perception, look at the Gallup Economic Confidence Index.
http://www.gallup.com/poll/151550/gallup-daily-economic-confidence-index.aspx
On November 3, 2016, it was -11. 1 month later, with Obama still in office and Trump barely even starting his transition team, all of the sudden it's +12. That's a 23 point swing with no actual economic changes or policies. People thought the economy was bad because right wing news had a nonstop barrage saying it was bad. Then once their guy got into office they started saying the economy was good. I'm not saying the economy was perfect, but with a Republican Congress that stonewalled everything and recovering from the biggest recession in nearly a century, it was doing alright. And after years of stagnation, in 2015 and 2016 we were finally starting to see wage growth. The economy was getting better, but people were told it wasn't so that's what they thought.
I'm not going to deny Hillary blew the Rust Belt states. She did. This does nothing to change the fact that this all started because you thought the main reason people voted for Hillary is because she's a woman.
And are you trying to say that the economy isn't complex? It is, and her solution to fixing it was complex. Hillary is a wonkish dork. She isn't good at providing simple soundbites, she's good at crafting detailed plans that go over the heads of most people. Yes, she wasn't able to convey that policy, because she sucks at that. That's been a problem with her for years. But to act like that means she doesn't have a plan is disingenuous. She had one. It was complicated. She couldn't boil it down. That is part of the reason for her failure. This doesn't change the fact that she had a plan
Autodidact
Banned
Only if it's in smaller print under "Kamala YAAAS QUEEN GAWD!"
But then again, we piss people off when we do that too.
You might think that bigoted people are looking for any excuse to justify their garbage votes and lay the blame on us.
But no, we probably pushed them toward Trump for something something reasons.
You're mean to the moderates and the left! Tolerant left my ass! Now everyone's for Trump, sorry.
She had a giant detailed rational policy you can read at any time including on the front page of her website the entire time. Maybe you didn't like her ideas but this is Bernie Bro levels of either delusion or disingenuity.
ErasureAcer
Banned
And some also thought she was more electable than Bernie all the while ignoring the polls that said otherwise, this very board included. *
LOL @ all the hate in this thread. You guys must live miserable lives.
*The real delusion and disingenuity.
Polls don't matter, votes do. Hillary got more votes than Bernie. A LOT more. For all the talks from the Bernie wing about a rigged primary, taking the nomination from the winner that outright dominated the loser would be actual rigging and voter suppression
And LOL @ us leading miserable lives. We're able to move on from 2016, admit what Hillary did wrong, and look to the future and actually do shit to fight the neofascists trying to take over our country. You're too busy taking potshots at a party that mostly agrees with you while doing nothing about the actual threat to democracy, and you seem unable to address why Bernie got stomped in the primary
Autodidact
Banned
To be serious for a moment, I still haven't comprehended the political spectrum that these malcontents have created. If I'm mean to the moderates and the left and I drive people toward Trump, then what am I?
A centrist neoliberal shill, I guess. But I thought they used that term as a synonym for "centrist corporatist Democrats," who they also sometimes derisively call "moderates." But they'll tell me I'm mean to the moderates. Does that mean I'm self-loathing?
I get so confused.
I've noticed polls only seem to matter when Bernie's involved.
She got 3 million more votes than Trump, lost by under 100K between 3 states, all while we gained House and Senate seats during the election. It was a complicated, incredibly narrow loss. But if you have "a better candidate than Clinton" and run the same campaign, we likely win. That's going to be a rough pill for a lot of lefties.
If you want to see a dumpstering, go check out the '72 election. Or any of the elections in the 1980.
...You're the one who keeps coming back to a board with people you apparently can't stand. That's miserable.
Autodidact
Banned
If Shillary rigged the primary, you don't think she could rig all the polls that showed her winning, too?
Wake up.
Fenderputty
Banned
This is where the bernie bro brings up the inability to vote in closed primaries while ignoring his dominance in the totally democratic caucuses
ErasureAcer
Banned
Someone has to speak the truth.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=yE7UAJRHdCQ#t=72
Warren is the second most popular politician in the country right now...
Hillary is borderline Bush-level toxicity and is polling worse than Trump.
And that someone arrives, I'll be sure to listen.
It's easy to be popular when you snipe from the outside and never offer any actual feasible policy solutions that can be turned into actual legislation and passed.
The GOP has become a party entirely based on this principle of permanent opposition, and we're seeing issue on the left w people attempting it (see: single-payer in California) as well.
(Note: Warren actually has attempted actual feasible policy solution and that's why she's become a target for the GOP)
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