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PoliGAF 2017 |OT4| The leaks are coming from inside the white house
- Thread starter Spoiled Milk
- Start date
- Status
(It doesn't because divided government is the norm, not the exception.)
GoldenEye 007
Member
What was it, about 14 million losing coverage in 2018?
That's literally what the GOP is doing right now already. We would be the counterbalance in this scenario.
Box of Kittens
Banned
Here's an idea: When the Dems gain power again, they should show their goodwill by introducing a "super filibuster" that requires a majority of Republicans to pass any vote. They will surely return the goodwill by leaving it in place when they take power again.
Roland_Gunner
Member
That was the House bill. It won't be as bad because things are pushed out but millions of people are going to be hurt.
Snowman Prophet of Doom
Member
Kill the filibuster, but, tbh, without fixing our electoral system to allow multiple smaller parties that have to join in coalitions to fix particular issues (and getting rid of the electoral college and encouraging people in "safe" states to actually VOTE), the short-term effect will be even wilder, probably more frequent policy swings.
Box of Kittens
Banned
The filibuster, like the Electoral College, is one of those things that no one would ever put in if they were drafting a constitution, but people defend because it's the way things are and people aren't willing to admit that the structure of our government isn't actually that good. It's even more absurd than the EC in that it was created entirely by accident decades later and yet people still treat it as an important check and balance, but I guess it's less heinous in that at least it wasn't designed to increase the power of slaveholders.
Poodlestrike
Banned
Called both my Senators through the Capitol Switchboard. Ate answering machine both times. Expected that from Portman, but thought Brown would have an aide on the phone.
Ah well. Will definitely try again tomorrow.
Edit: Also, what sort of new dumbness is this? Of course you kill the Filibuster. Our entire premise as a party is that government should be doing stuff, helping people. That's why we get punished for inaction even when it's the Republican's fault. Kill the filibuster, push through fucking everything. They undo it the next time they get power, but you know what? People like the stuff we do when we're allowed to do it. So I'd put money on that being a less popular proposition than they'd hope.
Ah well. Will definitely try again tomorrow.
Edit: Also, what sort of new dumbness is this? Of course you kill the Filibuster. Our entire premise as a party is that government should be doing stuff, helping people. That's why we get punished for inaction even when it's the Republican's fault. Kill the filibuster, push through fucking everything. They undo it the next time they get power, but you know what? People like the stuff we do when we're allowed to do it. So I'd put money on that being a less popular proposition than they'd hope.
Suikoguy
I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
A constitutional amendment changing the electoral college and implementing rank-order voting would encourage compromise, voting, and multiple political parties. But it's not without it's own set of problems.
But if our concern is preventing a cycle of undoing and replacing everything done every 4 to 8 years, it would strongly address that over time.
Roland_Gunner
Member
Thats only going to happen with a constitutional convention and a complete re-working of how Americans view politics. Not saying its not needed but you're talking about the biggest change in our system since the Civil War.
Bonen no Max'd
Banned
If we can get a constitutional amendment through then fuck ranked choice, abolish the presidency and institute party list proportional representation.
oh, and give all MPs four or five year terms, not too picky on which is better or worse
oh, and give all MPs four or five year terms, not too picky on which is better or worse
Nomadic Sparks
Banned
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jun/22/american-politics-civil-war-alt-right-left-wing
This article represents the state of conservatism right now and OMFG why would you quote a lunatic like fucking Pat Buchanan, he is such barfy toiletry of a man
Handwringing over bullshit
GTFO with this treason
This article represents the state of conservatism right now and OMFG why would you quote a lunatic like fucking Pat Buchanan, he is such barfy toiletry of a man
Handwringing over bullshit
GTFO with this treason
Poodlestrike
Banned
I do like the idea of having a reactive body and a long-term body, but right now the whole idea is broken because Republicans vote in lockstep so the lunatics are effectively running both asylums.
smokeandmirrors
Banned
unicameral parliament or bust
Roland_Gunner
Member
If Ron Johnson of all people blows this thing up I'll lose my damned mind. Also Collins folding is the most 'moderate' GOP thing ever.
https://twitter.com/JordanUhl/status/878008282673168384
Running away from the bill that will make his Iowan people suffer.
Running away from the bill that will make his Iowan people suffer.
"when dems gain power again"
One step at a time, buddy.
Dem party is a wreck. Pelosi less popular than Trump. Obviously she doesn't deserve it, but that's the reality. Saying "well people are stupid" isn't going to win dems any seats. New people, same people, whatever -- dems need a new image either way. This isn't working.
Maybe things naturally swing back in 2018/2020 but it isn't looking like a sure thing and more importantly there's no reason to expect it to last. Trump should be making the entire GOP more toxic than ever before, but it's not happening -- hell, the GOP in congress aren't doing themselves any favors either with this healthcare stuff, but it doesn't seem to matter. After the election, Pelosi basically says she thinks dems can just keep on doing what they've been doing. I'm not sure if she's updated her position yet, but that's still insane. I can respect her skills as a legislator but uhhhh, wtf.
I don't know how you all aren't worried. The US government is a joke under the GOP and people don't seem to think dems would make it better. How is that acceptable? Is it unfair? Sure. People are dumb and GOP has no integrity and they use fear mongering to make democrats seem like monsters. But it works. And dems don't seem to have an answer to it.
One step at a time, buddy.
Dem party is a wreck. Pelosi less popular than Trump. Obviously she doesn't deserve it, but that's the reality. Saying "well people are stupid" isn't going to win dems any seats. New people, same people, whatever -- dems need a new image either way. This isn't working.
Maybe things naturally swing back in 2018/2020 but it isn't looking like a sure thing and more importantly there's no reason to expect it to last. Trump should be making the entire GOP more toxic than ever before, but it's not happening -- hell, the GOP in congress aren't doing themselves any favors either with this healthcare stuff, but it doesn't seem to matter. After the election, Pelosi basically says she thinks dems can just keep on doing what they've been doing. I'm not sure if she's updated her position yet, but that's still insane. I can respect her skills as a legislator but uhhhh, wtf.
I don't know how you all aren't worried. The US government is a joke under the GOP and people don't seem to think dems would make it better. How is that acceptable? Is it unfair? Sure. People are dumb and GOP has no integrity and they use fear mongering to make democrats seem like monsters. But it works. And dems don't seem to have an answer to it.
Dominican Power
Member
https://twitter.com/cnnbrk/status/878041916327301120
Democrats really ain't shit. This is what The Republicans want because they know Pelosi be getting in that ass.
Democrats really ain't shit. This is what The Republicans want because they know Pelosi be getting in that ass.
Rick Perry says he doesn't believe humans are responsible for climate change.
Says there needs to be a study by skeptics to look at evidence.
Franken says, hey, actually this was done already by the Koch bros, let me read it to you.
Study says skeptics were completely convinced.
Perry freaks out says it's wrong.
What the hell happened to the right in this country?
https://thinkprogress.org/amp/p/69fbc39619d4
Says there needs to be a study by skeptics to look at evidence.
Franken says, hey, actually this was done already by the Koch bros, let me read it to you.
Study says skeptics were completely convinced.
Perry freaks out says it's wrong.
What the hell happened to the right in this country?
https://thinkprogress.org/amp/p/69fbc39619d4
Is ~7% enough to overcome incumbent advantage? Because the vast majority of seats we'll be trying to wrestle from republicans will be held by incumbents.
Poodlestrike
Banned
Also the Senate Republicans being led by a man I'm reasonably sure is an actual sociopath doesn't help matters.
CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION FANFICTION:
-Ranked preference voting for erryone
-4 year lower house terms
-8 year upper house terms
-Lower house by district (all districts identical in population, numbers tied to smallest state, shape determined by algorithm)
-Upper house by state (100 senators, reapportioned every 10 years during the census, states WILL have different numbers of Senators depending on population, I'm really just making shit up at this point)
-Presidential responsibilities broken up; still chief in charge of diplomacy and military, but all other executive functions answer to legislative branch.
-New rights guaranteed include: healthcare, communications, shelter, food.
-Broad suite of voting rights protections.
CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION FANFICTION:
-Ranked preference voting for erryone
-4 year lower house terms
-8 year upper house terms
-Lower house by district (all districts identical in population, numbers tied to smallest state, shape determined by algorithm)
-Upper house by state (100 senators, reapportioned every 10 years during the census, states WILL have different numbers of Senators depending on population, I'm really just making shit up at this point)
-Presidential responsibilities broken up; still chief in charge of diplomacy and military, but all other executive functions answer to legislative branch.
-New rights guaranteed include: healthcare, communications, shelter, food.
-Broad suite of voting rights protections.
ShadowSwordmaster
Banned
A black man became president.
IggyChooChoo
Member
Constitutional convention fanfiction? I'm in!
1) Abolish electoral college
2) Abolish Senate
3) Cap House districts at 30,000 per district. This will lead to House going from 435 to roughly 10,000 members. (Right now I think avg. house district is like 700,000 people.)
4) Districts drawn up by non-partisan commission generally favoring compactness and partisan competition. Redrawn every 10 years.
5) Split House into three classes, with terms lasting three years, so 1/3 of House districts are up every year.
6) Election day is federal holiday every year, with federal guidelines requiring 3 weeks of early voting. Institute universal Federal ID.
7) Consolidate states into say, 7 superstates consisting of roughly equal population. State lines to be redrawn every 50 years. All states have unicameral legislature instead of bicameral ones.
8) Constitutional convention every 50 years (staggered against state redrawings)
9) All elections publicly financed.
10) All federal judges, including Supreme Court justices, limited to 20-year terms.
1) Abolish electoral college
2) Abolish Senate
3) Cap House districts at 30,000 per district. This will lead to House going from 435 to roughly 10,000 members. (Right now I think avg. house district is like 700,000 people.)
4) Districts drawn up by non-partisan commission generally favoring compactness and partisan competition. Redrawn every 10 years.
5) Split House into three classes, with terms lasting three years, so 1/3 of House districts are up every year.
6) Election day is federal holiday every year, with federal guidelines requiring 3 weeks of early voting. Institute universal Federal ID.
7) Consolidate states into say, 7 superstates consisting of roughly equal population. State lines to be redrawn every 50 years. All states have unicameral legislature instead of bicameral ones.
8) Constitutional convention every 50 years (staggered against state redrawings)
9) All elections publicly financed.
10) All federal judges, including Supreme Court justices, limited to 20-year terms.
"when dems gain power again"
One step at a time, buddy.
Dem party is a wreck. Pelosi less popular than Trump. Obviously she doesn't deserve it, but that's the reality. Saying "well people are stupid" isn't going to win dems any seats. New people, same people, whatever -- dems need a new image either way. This isn't working.
Maybe things naturally swing back in 2018/2020 but it isn't looking like a sure thing and more importantly there's no reason to expect it to last. Trump should be making the entire GOP more toxic than ever before, but it's not happening -- hell, the GOP in congress aren't doing themselves any favors either with this healthcare stuff, but it doesn't seem to matter. After the election, Pelosi basically says she thinks dems can just keep on doing what they've been doing. I'm not sure if she's updated her position yet, but that's still insane. I can respect her skills as a legislator but uhhhh, wtf.
I don't know how you all aren't worried. The US government is a joke under the GOP and people don't seem to think dems would make it better. How is that acceptable? Is it unfair? Sure. People are dumb and GOP has no integrity and they use fear mongering to make democrats seem like monsters. But it works. And dems don't seem to have an answer to it.
Shifts in opinion take time. Inertia is the first law of politics.
This is why the Democratic strategy to rely on demographics, while flawed in the short term, has some advantages: instead of relying on changing hearts and minds, which is possible but takes years to decades, vs just having more reliable Dem voters appear while reliable R voters die of old age.
Roland_Gunner
Member
A 20 or 25 year term doesn't seem unreasonable. With modern medicine you could judges stay seated for 50+ years with basically no oversight.
Roland_Gunner
Member
Edit: Wrong thread 
Snowman Prophet of Doom
Member
I agree! But we just elected Donald fucking Trump because there are literally only two organizations in our country capable of giving people any kind of political voice, and there is nowhere else for one side to go to get their goals implemented if a nutjob demagogue snatches the reins of power in one of them. Of course, people could just stay home and not vote for nutjob demagogues, but everything I know about psychology says that, in a situation like this, the people who do pay attention will rationalize things however they need to in order to not have to change (the mind seeks ideological homeostasis), and the ones that don't will just vote how they're told. I would say it is a needed change.
A cool strategy for the supreme court i've seen on another website:
1) Every newly-elected President gets to appoint exactly 1 supreme court justice. When a President comes into office after election, the most senior SC justice must resign, and the President gets to pick a new one. Senate can vote it down with a supermajority (in case of someone truly, grossly unqualified).
2) When a Supreme Court justice voluntarily retires, they get to pick their own replacement. Can again be voted down by a Senate supermajority.
3) When a Supreme Court justice dies or is otherwise forced out of the body for reasons other than 1), a majority of the remainder must agree on a replacement.
Justices appointed from 2 or 3 must be federal circuit justices. The President can pick anyone they choose.
This puts some predictability back into the courts.
1) Every newly-elected President gets to appoint exactly 1 supreme court justice. When a President comes into office after election, the most senior SC justice must resign, and the President gets to pick a new one. Senate can vote it down with a supermajority (in case of someone truly, grossly unqualified).
2) When a Supreme Court justice voluntarily retires, they get to pick their own replacement. Can again be voted down by a Senate supermajority.
3) When a Supreme Court justice dies or is otherwise forced out of the body for reasons other than 1), a majority of the remainder must agree on a replacement.
Justices appointed from 2 or 3 must be federal circuit justices. The President can pick anyone they choose.
This puts some predictability back into the courts.
Poodlestrike
Banned
How did I forget about the electoral college? Or the election day holiday? smh. Oooh, or publicly funded elections...
10,000 is too many for Congress. Like, that's not a workable number of people. You can talk televoting all you like it's still just a ridiculous number to expect to build a consensus around.
Why the term limits for judges?
This party is doomed.
Spoiled Milk
Banned
The chaos this healthcare bill will cause will be good for Democrats. Unfortunate we have to win this way.
Aaron Strife
Banned
1) Abolish the Senate
2) Abolish the House
3) Abolish the presidency
4) Abolish the judicial branch
5) Dictatorship
6) benji's in charge
And yeah I don't like the idea of 10,000 representatives. Imagine whipping 5,001 votes for a bill. Wyoming rule is fine, we'd get about an extra 100 votes.
2) Abolish the House
3) Abolish the presidency
4) Abolish the judicial branch
5) Dictatorship
6) benji's in charge
And yeah I don't like the idea of 10,000 representatives. Imagine whipping 5,001 votes for a bill. Wyoming rule is fine, we'd get about an extra 100 votes.
Emerson
May contain jokes =>
Go back to ancient Greek democracy. 1,000 Representatives randomly chosen from among all citizens. Few to no exceptions, similar to jury duty or perhaps slightly harsher. No subsequent terms except from sheer chance. Government pays salary and expenses of travel/relocation.
Spoiled Milk
Banned
just automate government with ai
Poodlestrike
Banned
How do people feel about a qualifications test for voting? I know that those're usually used for horrifically racist ends but what if we made it so that it's designed, managed, administered, etc. entirely by black women? I figure that'd solve most of the problems.
Emerson
May contain jokes =>
I oppose it but I do think you should have to pass a test to be allowed to have children.
Spoiled Milk
Banned
best troll
Bonen no Max'd
Banned
maybe we should just skip democracy and establish a military junta in order to enable technocrats to manage the population tbh
IggyChooChoo
Member
Okay, the 10,000 is more fanciful. But I think of that in relationship to the number of people represented rather than the workability of the body they work in. 30,000 isn't enough so anyone who wants to talk to their rep can get some time with them. And I think a 10k body would work; you'd just need sub-whips. It's not like the House particularly works on a consensus basis now. It's very top-down.
Term limits for judges is mostly about not having tons of ancient judges making decisions for us.
Poodlestrike
Banned
That does sound pretty appealing...
Spoiled Milk
Banned
I elect Holmes to be the voice of reason for this thread because everyone else has gone insane.
smokeandmirrors
Banned
praise be to first consul Musk.
Do they actually have to give up on long term demographics to do better in the short term? Is that why Pelosi is so toxic? It just seems like one piece of the puzzle to me and it's lazy to throw up your hands and just wait it out for the eventual shift that won't even necessarily be guaranteed. It's very possible that as the US gets less white, non-whites just get less reliably dem.
I'm all for leadership change. But if we're going to get rid of accoplished leadership, let it be because up-and-comers with vision have stepped up to the plate.
Sacking people because the GOP has been successful at placing the world at their feet and every woe on their shoulders is a level of weakness that is, frankly, hard to fight for.
Poodlestrike
Banned
This isn't wrong, tbh. I'd be in favor of Nancy stepping aside if we had some young gun looking to replace her, but getting rid of her just because the Republicans have been good at demonizing her is kind of stupid.
Every indication is still that we're going to take back the House in 2018. Let's see who we've got then.
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