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PoliGAF 2017 |OT5| The Man In the High Chair

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Ogodei

Member
Anyways, there will be no invisible primary in 2020 and if Obama didn't jump in the primary to help Hillary in 2016, he sure as shit isn't jumping in to help Patrick in 2020.

So he can push him to run all he wants, but this is a terrible idea. Booooo.

There's always an invisible primary, it's just more expansive in some years than others, and usually it happens so quietly that you never even know someone was thinking of running. Who do we know got "scared off" by Clinton? Probably plenty of people, but we don't know their names (Biden, arguably, despite the death of his son i think he would have gone for it if the other contenders were less challenging than Clinton).

Weren't that many Dems in good position to run last year. A field without Clinton might have attracted Warren, Castro, or Booker, but few enough others.
 
We already know it's more-than-likely that Dems will pick up the open FL-27 district. So now Dems, with a genetic ballot lead of 7.8%, are only going to pick up one more seat?

k.
KDK2017072701-table2.png


Dummycrats will only win one GOP-held Tossup seat, but somehow we'll hold all of our own.

His model says we only pick up CA-49 and FL-27. These results do not exist in a vacuum! There are very few universes where we don't make any substantial gains and yet open seat MN-1 stays blue.
 

Emerson

May contain jokes =>
He called Trump winning the popular vote.

Not really. His prediction model is based around whether the incumbent party will retain the White House or lose it. He might have separately predicted Trump would win the popular vote, but that's not what his "13 keys" thing was about.

The problem with that system though is that several of the keys are fairly subjective.
 
This is about Patrick being exposed to literally the exact same line of attack in the primaries as Hillary was, because neither of them are behaving in a way you'd expect someone with further aspirations to be behaving career-wise after leaving office.

It was a big problem for Hillary and it'd be a big problem for Patrick, even moreso in an actual multiway primary filled w/ people like Booker, Harris, Gillibrand, etc. who don't have that issue.

Was that line of attack effective, or was it 25 years of right wing propaganda taking hold combined with newly unleashed nonsense from alternative facts outlets aligned with Russian interests?

Hillary had baggage that, quite frankly, it would be unreasonable to expect any candidate to have again for a while, compounded by her inability to get out of her own way with her entirely too guarded public persona.

Let Patrick run. If he's ineffective, he'll lose in the primary. If he wins, Bernie Bros better be on board, or they deserve the second term of Trump even more than the first.

I had a few on my Facebook last year and what I didn't understand until earlier this year is that many of them were actually absorbing fake news about Hillary at higher rates than Trumpets. Reposting it and so on. Sadly now that they realize they've been had they're all, "Well it doesn't matter because she was a TURRIBLE candidate" non stop. You see it here on gaf, too.

Basically they got suckered, "but it doesn't matter anyway because reasons."

So they're smarter than trumpets, but too embarrassed to change their minds. Team mentality is the worst.

The worst.
 
Not really. His prediction model is based around whether the incumbent party will retain the White House or lose it. He might have separately predicted Trump would win the popular vote, but that's not what his "13 keys" thing was about.

The problem with that system though is that several of the keys are fairly subjective.

What? He said his model correct predicted Al Gore winning.
 
Genuine question because I'm not trying to be antagonistic here, I'm trying to actually understand other people's perspective.

Do you believe (a significant number of) pro-life advocates actually believe abortion is murder?

The ones I know certainly do.
 

kirblar

Member
Was that line of attack effective, or was it 25 years of right wing propaganda taking hold combined with newly unleashed nonsense from alternative facts outlets aligned with Russian interests?

Hillary had baggage that, quite frankly, it would be unreasonable to expect any candidate to have again for a while, compounded by her inability to get out of her own way with her entirely too guarded public persona.

Let Patrick run. If he's ineffective, he'll lose in the primary. If he wins, Bernie Bros better be on board, or they deserve the second term of Trump even more than the first.
It was very effective in the '12 general against Romney!

Trump was immune to a bunch of stuff because he was a faux-populist liar. That won't be the case in 2020 regardless of who their nominee is, so you need to make sure it's an attack you can credibly make against that person!
 
There's no need to get worked up or start shouting. I'm perfectly fine with being wrong and learning. Got a good link where I can read how it really works?

I mean, I'm not yelling, it's the internet. You're the one who decided to come in here and post Random Math Dude's super cool Surefire Model! and then defend it with such conviction by saying.

Polls cited by 538 include options for "Other" and/or "Not Sure" and/or "I would not vote".

When 'D' or 'R' is isolated on ballot the lead shrinks.

A lot of these people won't vote because it's a midterm election and trying to model what that election is going to look like in an LV model is going to be tricky regardless. Of the "not sures", you have to dive into demographics to look at how at how they might lean or which way they might lean partisan wise.

Anyways, this works both ways:

http://fivethirtyeight.com/features...r-model-is-more-bullish-than-others-on-trump/

Assumption No. 1: The high number of undecided and third-party voters indicates greater uncertainty.

Historically, there’s been a strong correlation between the number of undecided and third-party voters, and polling volatility. It also makes sense intuitively. You can think of an election as having two constraints: Candidates keep campaigning until they run out of time (Election Day), or until they run out of voters to persuade (undecideds). While the candidates are almost out of time this year, the number of undecideds is still fairly high (although it’s decreasing). In national polls, Clinton and Trump together have approximately 85 percent of the vote, while Mitt Romney and Barack Obama had about 95 percent of the vote at this time four years ago.

http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-invisible-undecided-voter/

The late shift toward Trump, like other periods of polling instability throughout the campaign, was consistent with a long-term pattern. Historically, the more undecided and third-party voters there are, the more volatile and less accurate the polling has tended to be. The relationship ought to be fairly intuitive: There’s not much a pollster can do when a voter hasn’t yet made up her mind. In 1980, for instance, final polls showed Ronald Reagan leading Jimmy Carter roughly 43-40, with 17 percent of voters undecided or saying they planned to vote for independent John Anderson. Reagan wound up winning in a landslide, 51-41, making for a seemingly massive polling error. But Carter technically didn’t underperform his polls: it’s just that Reagan hugely outperformed his as undecideds and Anderson voters broke his way. A milder example came in 2000, when a relatively high number of voters said they were undecided or planned to vote for Ralph Nader, presaging an upset win in the popular vote by Al Gore (George W. Bush had led by 3 to 4 percentage points in the final national polls). By contrast, the 2004 and 2008 cycles had very few undecided voters and highly accurate polling.

FiveThirtyEight’s model accounted for the high number of undecideds, which is part of the reason it gave Trump better odds than other forecasts. I’m somewhat perplexed as to why these voters didn’t draw more attention from other modelers or reporters, however, since they were often key to understanding the progression of the campaign. With a large fraction of voters not firmly committed to either candidate — no doubt in part because of the historic unpopularity of both Clinton and Trump — it didn’t take much to move them from one candidate to the other, and so news events had more impact on the polls in 2016 than they did in 2012.

The high number of undecideds means that you're either looking at a more at-parity election or that Dems have more of a landslide. But unlike the 2016 election, we also have Trump's job approval numbers, which are highly predictive in terms of midterm electorate.

rakich-trump-approval-0213_net.png


So yes, while it's possible that a high number of undecideds means that the GOP is closer than you think, you can't just ignore the fact that people are saying undecided. That's not how polling works. And then when you compare Trump's approval rating with how Democrats are doing in special elections in 2017, it paints a much different picture (with like, actual numbers!) than Math Dude's numbers.

Again, I'm bearish on the House, but I'm also sick of Math Dudes coming in with this One Trick that will predict everything! based on no track record. See how your model does in 2018, my dude.

(And something else about Trump's approval ratings lately? Number of undecideds has gone down. It gives it much less uncertainty)
 

Emerson

May contain jokes =>
What? He said his model correct predicted Al Gore winning.

Ah, you're right. But his description of the model says repeatedly it determines whether the incumbent party will retain or not. And he just claims Gore as an anomaly. But of course he also claims Trump as a correct prediction, so it's just bullshit really.
 

Stumpokapow

listen to the mad man
But how do you square this kind of hedging to moderates, with this?
Ignoring women’s fundamental freedoms and equality to win elections is both an ethically and politically bankrupt strategy.
I stopped counting long ago each time I have to defend a constitutional right that I was brought up to believe was sacrosanct to Democrats. Expressing my outrage, every time, is unproductive and personally exhausting. I have in the intervening years learned about the history of Democratic tolerance and how it ebbs and flows with cyclical elections.
https://www.vox.com/first-person/2017/5/25/15681240/democrats-pro-choice-abortion-trump

This is your base (that's the president of NARAL). If you don't have them, you have nothing.

I think I addressed this--bringing in interest groups and really getting a handle on where private positions diverge from public ones and the important role of interest groups in keeping the party grounded--in the first post, but if your position is that the Democratic party shouldn't compete in any state where they can't run a candidate who is destined to get a 100% NARAL rating, then the game is over because there are maybe 75-100 Democratic seats in the country by that standard.
 
Genuine question because I'm not trying to be antagonistic here, I'm trying to actually understand other people's perspective.

Do you believe (a significant number of) pro-life advocates actually believe abortion is murder?

Republicans, eh. Pro-Life Advocates, yes.
 
Genuine question because I'm not trying to be antagonistic here, I'm trying to actually understand other people's perspective.

Do you believe (a significant number of) pro-life advocates actually believe abortion is murder?

The loop on this (and why I thought defining anti-choice separately from anti-abortion, btw) is that if you want to minimize the number of abortions, making it harder for women to get them safely and legally is about the worst possible way of going about it. Abortion still carries a stigma, and most people who feel that they need one will still get one, they'll just have a much worse time of it. So the number of "murdered" babies is gonna remain roughly constant.

Most anti-choice politicians are notably thin on answers to this problem, such as improved availability of birth control and better sex-ed.
 

PBY

Banned
The loop on this (and why I thought defining anti-choice separately from anti-abortion, btw) is that if you want to minimize the number of abortions, making it harder for women to get them safely and legally is about the worst possible way of going about it. Abortion still carries a stigma, and most people who feel that they need one will still get one, they'll just have a much worse time of it. So the number of "murdered" babies is gonna remain roughly constant.

Most anti-choice politicians are notably thin on answers to this problem, such as improved availability of birth control and better sex-ed
.

The bolded is because, in many cases, such "solutions" are also against the religious beliefs that underlie the objection to abortion.
 
According to his Twitter profile and blog, the person who did this model is not a statistician, but rather an undergraduate studying government.

It also sounds to me like this model may not be validated, which is a big no-no. The Bickers-Berry model which showed Romney winning easily and conservatives touted so much in 2012 had eye-popping performance in "predicting" elections prior to 2012, because that's the data the model was built with. That model was unvalidated, and unsurprisingly it was way off the mark in 2012.

Color me skeptical about this model.

He called Trump winning the popular vote.

Even better, he only decided that the model predicts the popular vote after the 2000 election, when it said Gore would win.
 
The bolded is because, in many cases, such "solutions" are also against the religious beliefs that underlie the objection to abortion.

I mean, it's not like these people are particularly good Christians, either. Misogyny fits way better with their overall behavior patterns.

The point is that if you wanted, really wanted, to reduce the number of abortions, banning them is very nearly the worst way to go about doing that.
 
Genuine question because I'm not trying to be antagonistic here, I'm trying to actually understand other people's perspective.

Do you believe (a significant number of) pro-life advocates actually believe abortion is murder?

I'm not really sure how someone can be pro-life and not believe this

The concept is that human life begins at conception. Ergo, if you have an abortion, you've killed that human. Which is murder.

It's likely why people, even some liberals, are hesitant on abortion. Once you start believing it's murder, you have to find ways to either justify that murder isn't that bad in this situation, or justify that the clump of cells isn't human. The latter is a lot easier to get over than the former, but still, it's a block that stops people from re-considering their views. Especially if your peers will view you as a murderer.

And also with that, if you view pro-choice people are murderers, it becomes very hard to support them. Who would support murderers?

More liberal changes in thinking on abortion have moved at a glacial pace in the US.
 

pigeon

Banned
Genuine question because I'm not trying to be antagonistic here, I'm trying to actually understand other people's perspective.

Do you believe (a significant number of) pro-life advocates actually believe abortion is murder?

Sure. I think it's quite arguable that abortion at some points may be killing (murder is definitionally unlawful).
 

jtb

Banned
Biden actually has a bizarrely conservative voting record on abortion. I was really shocked a few years ago when I was going through old rollcalls and, like, it's not just that Biden was a moderate ideologically to begin with, this is a particular issue that he departed from the party on in a conservative direction. He seems to have moved left on the issue since becoming VP (and in his last few years as senator, particularly post-2006) and he's obviously a very sincere guy in how he presents himself so I assume he has the valence to convince people he has genuinely moved left, but his earlier voting record is really not what I would have thought it was. His public statements are considerably more liberal than his voting record as well, so it won't be immediately obvious if you Google it.

No, you're right. But people shouldn't be treating it as a good thing or a model for the party! Biden's from a blue state!

Plus, as a corallary to Biden's career has been the polarization of abortion as a political issue. Look at Hyde votes over time; they've shifted from being pretty evenly split between parties to being practically entirely GOP/Dem sorted. Biden's evolved with the political environment.

The loop on this (and why I thought defining anti-choice separately from anti-abortion, btw) is that if you want to minimize the number of abortions, making it harder for women to get them safely and legally is about the worst possible way of going about it. Abortion still carries a stigma, and most people who feel that they need one will still get one, they'll just have a much worse time of it. So the number of "murdered" babies is gonna remain roughly constant.

Most anti-choice politicians are notably thin on answers to this problem, such as improved availability of birth control and better sex-ed.

Murder is murder. The pro-life goal will never be to find a way to have 'safe, correct murder.' It will be to end murder entirely. This is a rhetorical solution in search of a question.
 

Emerson

May contain jokes =>
No, you're right. But people shouldn't be treating it as a good thing or a model for the party! Biden's from a blue state!

Delaware is a blue state (I live here), but it is not as liberal as its national reputation implies. It's only blue because of New Castle County, the other 2 counties are very conservative and much more rural in general. Even NCC has a large number of Catholics and suburban Christian moderately liberal families who are not friendly to abortion, especially decades ago when Biden was running for office (and not as a many-year incumbent).
 

pigeon

Banned
I'm not really sure how someone can be pro-life and not believe this

The concept is that human life begins at conception. Ergo, if you have an abortion, you've killed that human. Which is murder.

It's likely why people, even some liberals, are hesitant on abortion. Once you start believing it's murder, you have to find ways to either justify that murder isn't that bad in this situation, or justify that the clump of cells isn't human. The latter is a lot easier to get over than the former, but still, it's a block that stops people from re-considering their views. Especially if your peers will view you as a murderer.

And also with that, if you view pro-choice people are murderers, it becomes very hard to support them. Who would support murderers?

More liberal changes in thinking on abortion have moved at a glacial pace in the US.

Well, this is where it becomes important to remember that the actual mainstream abortion position is "it's complicated."

Asking people whether they're pro-choice or pro-life produces a consistent divide. At the same time, 80% of Americans support abortions in the first trimester or in the case of medical necessity, rape, etc. A similar percentage thinks partial-birth abortions should be banned.

So it's not really correct to argue that most Americans believe that life begins at conception and it's immediately
murder to get rid of it. Most Americans believe that the topic is fuzzy and there's no bright line, but they're comfortable with early abortions and less comfortable with late ones.

So am I, frankly! But I'm willing to assume that the people having late abortions are making a tough decision that is right for them, rather than to assume I know better than they do.
 

jtb

Banned
Delaware is a blue state (I live here), but it is not as liberal as its national reputation implies. It's only blue because of New Castle County, the other 2 counties are very conservative and much more rural in general. Even NCC has a large number of Catholics and suburban Christian moderately liberal families who are not friendly to abortion, especially decades ago when Biden was running for office (and not as a many-year incumbent).

Tbh, that describes just about every blue state in the nation. Bar, maybe, Vermont?
 

Emerson

May contain jokes =>
Tbh, that describes just about every blue state in the nation. Bar, maybe, Vermont?

That's fair, but the second half of the post is more relevant really. It's not an especially pro-choice state even now, even in the most liberal part of the state. Decades ago when Biden was having to run for office by doing anything more than saying "Hey, it's me, Joe! You know me well because Delaware has a population of like six people!" abortion was an even harder sell here.
 
I
Again, I'm bearish on the House, but I'm also sick of Math Dudes coming in with this One Trick that will predict everything! based on no track record. See how your model does in 2018, my dude.

(And something else about Trump's approval ratings lately? Number of undecideds has gone down. It gives it much less uncertainty)

At the very least you should only use a subset of the available data to build your model and then see how it performs on the data you left out. It's not as good as testing out how it predicts a new election, but it's certainly better than nothing and people with these "OMG amazingly accurate models" never do it (which is part of why the models are so "accurate").

Also, modeling individual House races is really fucking hard. Nate Silver tried in 2010 and his model did quite terribly, to the point where he hasn't even tried since. And Nate Silver is a damn good modeler.
 

jtb

Banned
That's fair, but the second half of the post is more relevant really. It's not an especially pro-choice state even now, even in the most liberal part of the state. Decades ago when Biden was having to run for office by doing anything more than saying "Hey, it's me, Joe! You know me well because Delaware has a population of like six people!" abortion was an even harder sell here.

I hear you. As the party has shifted to being much more cosmopolitan and urban-based, not coincidentally, the politics and partisanship of abortion have also shifted along with it. (Which was the chicken and which was the egg - I'm not sure)
 
Well, this is where it becomes important to remember that the actual mainstream abortion position is "it's complicated."

Asking people whether they're pro-choice or pro-life produces a consistent divide. At the same time, 80% of Americans support abortions in the first trimester or in the case of medical necessity, rape, etc. A similar percentage thinks partial-birth abortions should be banned.

So it's not really correct to argue that most Americans believe that life begins at conception and it's immediately
murder to get rid of it. Most Americans believe that the topic is fuzzy and there's no bright line, but they're comfortable with early abortions and less comfortable with late ones.

So am I, frankly! But I'm willing to assume that the people having late abortions are making a tough decision that is right for them, rather than to assume I know better than they do.

I think this was more about hardcore single issue abortion voters, rather than most people. Generally, the group of people labeled "pro-life" are against any and all forms of abortion with maybe some exceptions for rape and life or death situations for the woman.

I also share your opinions on abortion, though. Late term ones make me very uncomfortable, but if a woman feels that's best for her, then so be it.
 

Blader

Member
KDK2017072701-table2.png


Dummycrats will only win one GOP-held Tossup seat, but somehow we'll hold all of our own.

His model says we only pick up CA-49 and FL-27. These results do not exist in a vacuum! There are very few universes where we don't make any substantial gains and yet open seat MN-1 stays blue.

In my amateur opinion, this seems like a hell of a lot of seats that are still lean/likely Republican.

Whenever I see someone post one of those Sabato lists with two dozen names listed in red as supposed good news for a D wave next year, I have to wonder how exactly all that red portends a D wave at all?
 
Even if you accept that it's acceptable to be bad on abortion rights in order to win elections, there isn't really any sort of evidence that anti-choice candidates are going to be big successes in GOP territory. In 2016 Democrats won three new congressional seats in districts Trump won (NV-3, NJ-5, and NH-1) and Rosen, Shea-Porter, and Gottheimer are all completely pro-choice (Gottheimer is gross otherwise though, his website says we need to emulate Reagan and O'Neill's work to "fix" the tax code *barf*). Of the Democrats that won in Trump districts, iirc a third of them are members of the CPC members, the same that are part of the New Democrats Caucus iirc. There isn't really any sort of common thread of Democrats being successful in Republican districts.

Of course, maybe you're arguing that Steve King will be taken down by some Democrat who talks about how much they hate abortion all the time but I'm pretty skeptical of that.
 
The entire point of putting a pro-life candidate out there is to make Republicans who are embarrassed by Trump too unmotivated to come out and vote.

White liberal women don't need to be inspired to vote for a Dem because they're all going to vote against the GOP because they hate Trump.

B(lack voters may need to be inspired but that is not related to this discussion)

But it could easily be the case that running moderate Dems would be electorally successful.

It just has to do with whether it's right or not to do.
 

Kusagari

Member
In my amateur opinion, this seems like a hell of a lot of seats that are still lean/likely Republican.

Whenever I see someone post one of those Sabato lists with two dozen names listed in red as supposed good news for a D wave next year, I have to wonder how exactly all that red portends a D wave at all?

You're almost never going to see a race with an entrenched incumbent shift to leaning the other way. The only way is if you have tons of polling showing them doing terribly.
 

jtb

Banned
The entire point of putting a pro-life candidate out there is to make Republicans who are embarrassed by Trump too unmotivated to come out and vote.

White liberal women don't need to be inspired to vote for a Dem because they're all going to vote against the GOP because they hate Trump.

B(lack voters may need to be inspired but that is not related to this discussion)

But it could easily be the case that running moderate Dems would be electorally successful.

It just has to do with whether it's right or not to do.

2016 would suggest otherwise. Well, white college educated women, I guess.

We'll see.

My first problem with this strategy is that I simply don't think it will work and risks alienating your base and undermining the grassroots energy.
 

PBY

Banned
The entire point of putting a pro-life candidate out there is to make Republicans who are embarrassed by Trump too unmotivated to come out and vote.

White liberal women don't need to be inspired to vote for a Dem because they're all going to vote against the GOP because they hate Trump.

B(lack voters may need to be inspired but that is not related to this discussion)

But it could easily be the case that running moderate Dems would be electorally successful.

It just has to do with whether it's right or not to do.

Also - what is the point. 4 years from now you've muddied the party's messaging on abortion rights, encouraged this creep to the right (that pigeon very smartly points out), and have thrown your base and their basic rights under the bus. And no one has really provided evidence that this kind of lip service even works.
 

pigeon

Banned
I think this was more about hardcore single issue abortion voters, rather than most people. Generally, the group of people labeled "pro-life" are against any and all forms of abortion with maybe some exceptions for rape and life or death situations for the woman.

I also share your opinions on abortion, though. Late term ones make me very uncomfortable, but if a woman feels that's best for her, then so be it.

My point is that the conversation often goes on the fact that about 50% of people say they're "pro-life," but at least 60% of those people support abortions in the first trimester. They are not the rabid "ban all abortions" people -- those folks are a small minority, despite driving conservative abortion policy.
 

kirblar

Member
Even if you accept that it's acceptable to be bad on abortion rights in order to win elections, there isn't really any sort of evidence that anti-choice candidates are going to be big successes in GOP territory. In 2016 Democrats won three new congressional seats in districts Trump won (NV-3, NJ-5, and NH-1) and Rosen, Shea-Porter, and Gottheimer are all completely pro-choice (Gottheimer is gross otherwise though, his website says we need to emulate Reagan and O'Neill's work to "fix" the tax code *barf*). Of the Democrats that won in Trump districts, iirc a third of them are members of the CPC members, the same that are part of the New Democrats Caucus iirc. There isn't really any sort of common thread of Democrats being successful in Republican districts.

Of course, maybe you're arguing that Steve King will be taken down by some Democrat who talks about how much they hate abortion all the time but I'm pretty skeptical of that.
Almost like this is the sort of thing that needs to be tailored to an individual electorate?

If only we had some sort of local internal competition to decide whether that's a good idea for them!
 
2016 would suggest otherwise. Well, white college educated women, I guess.

We'll see.

My first problem with this strategy is that I simply don't think it will work and risks alienating your base and undermining the grassroots energy.

Pretty sure we won all white liberal women.

Our issue was with white conservative women where we got killed.

My point is that the conversation often goes on the fact that about 50% of people say they're "pro-life," but at least 60% of those people support abortions in the first trimester. They are not the rabid "ban all abortions" people -- those folks are a small minority, despite driving conservative abortion policy.

I mean, you can point this out the other way though too.

50% of Democrats support some abortion restrictions. I'm pretty sure most of the Democrats would be happy or fine with a bill that banned abortions after 20 weeks with exceptions for life of the mother, rape, incest, or the baby likely dying soon after birth.

But the Dems have actually pushed for no abortion restrictions whatsoever.

It is more polarized in national politics than in reality. No major voter group supports their party's stance on abortion.
 

jtb

Banned
Polling on abortion is shit.

Like 80% of Americans support 'abortion with some restrictions' which could describe anything from the Roe v Wade status quo to 'rape, incest, life of the mother ONLY'. Or, in other words, a position that encompasses both parties' platforms.

But the Dems have actually pushed for no abortion restrictions whatsoever.

What are you referring to? The big push in 2016 I saw was on Hyde
 

CygnusXS

will gain confidence one day
Air Force to purchase bankrupt Russian airline's planes for Air Force One: report
The Air Force will reportedly attempt to lower costs on a pair of new presidential planes by buying two Boeing 747 jetliners abandoned by a bankrupt Russian airline.

Service officials are “working through the final stages of coordination to purchase two commercial 747-8 aircraft,” Air Force spokeswoman Ann Stefanek told Defense One.

The deal could be announced as soon as this week, though the Air Force is not expected to release the contract value, according to the report.

Officials said the Air Force is getting a "good deal" on the planes, which are, on average, listed at $386.8 million each.

The two planes, which are slated to be altered to become Air Force One presidential aircraft, were originally ordered in 2013 by Russia’s second-biggest airline Transaero, which went bankrupt in 2015.

Boeing flight-tested and put the two jets in storage while it searched for a buyer, allowing the Air Force to negotiate a good deal for the planes, sources told Defense One.

The Air Force had plans to build two new Air Force Ones to replace their aging counterparts when President Trump slammed "out of control" replacement costs on Twitter in December.
Doesn't sound like the planes actually made it into Russian hands, but that's quite the headline.
 

pigeon

Banned
Pretty sure we won all white liberal women.

Our issue was with white conservative women where we got killed.



I mean, you can point this out the other way though too.

50% of Democrats support some abortion restrictions. I'm pretty sure most of the Democrats would be happy or fine with a bill that banned abortions after 20 weeks with exceptions for life of the mother, rape, incest, or the baby likely dying soon after birth.

But the Dems have actually pushed for no abortion restrictions whatsoever.

It is more polarized in national politics than in reality. No major voter group supports their party's stance on abortion.

I would argue it's actually not that polarized in national politics -- the national policy remains "abortions should be legal but restricting some abortions should also be legal" and hasn't moved in decades, which is also the mainstream position.

It's extremely polarized in state politics.
 
In my amateur opinion, this seems like a hell of a lot of seats that are still lean/likely Republican.

Whenever I see someone post one of those Sabato lists with two dozen names listed in red as supposed good news for a D wave next year, I have to wonder how exactly all that red portends a D wave at all?
It means Democrats have much more opportunity.

Look at how many GOP-held tossup seats there are compared to the Democrats', 11 versus 3. Even if you just split those down the middle, Democrats come out 4 seats ahead (5 ahead when you factor in that FL-27 is considered Lean D).

Often in wave elections, one side pretty much runs the tables, so you could imagine in a good environment that we win all of the Tossups and pick up a chunk of those Lean Rs and maybe even one or two Likely Rs.

The important thing is that those GOP lists have been getting longer and longer throughout Trump's presidency. Lean Rs being moved to Tossup, Likely Rs being moved to Lean R, and Safe R seats that would never be competitive in a normal election suddenly have an outside chance at flipping. This is encouraging because it's rare that the House flips simply by winning all of the most competitive-on-paper seats, it's because other seats that shouldn't be competitive suddenly are. KY-6 is a good example of this - Sabato has it rated as Likely Republican, but Democrats just landed a great candidate in a district that still votes for Democrats downballot occasionally.
 

chadskin

Member
At one point during the interview, Trump seemed annoyed that one of the Wall Street Journal reporters in the room called the reaction to his July 24 Boy Scouts speech “mixed.”

“There was no mix there. That was a standing ovation from the time I walked out to the time I left, and for five minutes after I had already gone. There was no mix,” Trump said.

He added: “And I got a call from the head of the Boy Scouts saying it was the greatest speech that was ever made to them, and they were very thankful. So there was – there was no mix.”
http://www.politico.com/story/2017/08/01/trump-wall-street-journal-interview-full-transcript-241214

Never fails to amaze me.
 
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