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PoliGAF 2017 |OT6| Made this thread during Harvey because the ratings would be higher

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T

teiresias

Member
PBY said:
If you want to be the person to tell fucking DREAMERS that their protests are "counter-productive" because they don't want increased border security and want full amnesty - be my guest.
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Pelosi isn't the one that would stand in the way of that if it was within her power. They should be protesting the GOP instead of the people working their assess off to get them the best deal possible with a completely GOP-controlled government.
 
P

Plinko

Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
teiresias said:
Pelosi isn't the one that would stand in the way of that if it was within her power. They should be protesting the GOP instead of the people working their assess off to get them the best deal possible with a completely GOP-controlled government.
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Exactly. It is pointless to go after Pelosi for this.
 
V

VendettaRed07

Member
teiresias said:
Pelosi isn't the one that would stand in the way of that if it was within her power. They should be protesting the GOP instead of the people working their assess off to get them the best deal possible with a completely GOP-controlled government.
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It sort of is within her power now, given she can whip votes to make something happen. It is possible that whatever the administration has in mind with "increased border security" or what it will entail wouldn't even have the votes necessary with only republican votes. But maybe they can sneak more in their by getting democrats to bite if they attach DACA to it.

We aren't sure what is going to happen but it isn't like many are not justifiably nervous of what might be compromised here
 
V

Vixdean

Member
There's a part of me that feels the GOP is trying to pull off some some sort of legislative rope-a-dope with the ACA repeal effort, but then I remember that the people involved are too incompetent and short sighted to ever plan or execute such a tactic.
 
P

Plinko

Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
Vixdean said:
There's a part of me that feels the GOP is trying to pull off some some sort of legislative rope-a-dope with the ACA repeal effort, but then I remember that the people involved are too incompetent and short sighted to ever plan or execute such a tactic.
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Maybe, but don't forget how scummy and evil they are, too. I don't usually like to call people "evil," but I can't help it when I see all of the aspects of this bill.
 
K

kirblar

Member
Kusagari said:
He'll pass it if they somehow get the votes, but it's pretty clear McConnell doesn't want to bother with this turd of a bill.
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Yeah, he likely doesn't want to touch it because it'll waste time they don't have.

The problem is still McCain and in order to fulfill his demands you'll need a month+.
 
B

Blader

Member
pigeon said:
That does not logically imply that they, or we, should now support "Dream Act, but with more ICE officers on the streets raiding people's homes."
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I mean, that shouldn't be our first offer, no. But if the process ultimately boils down to that or nothing, do we go with nothing? Do you tell the 25-year-olds who have been living and working here nearly their entire lives that because we wouldn't compromise on the number of ICE agents, they have to go back to their parents' home countries?
 
M

Maledict

Member
Assuming Collins and Murkowski remain as Nos, that puts it all on McCain or Rand Paul as the third No. I have little faith in either tbh...
 
B

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
Maledict said:
Assuming Collins and Murkowski remain as Nos, that puts it all on McCain or Rand Paul as the third No. I have little faith in either tbh...
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I have more faith in McCain than I do Rand Paul. Paul is a bog-standard GOP goon who tries to talk like he isn't. At least McCain will back his talk up with action up once in a blue moon.
 
S

sc0la

Unconfirmed Member
See this is the thing. The repeal is NEVER fully gone. We only had to pass ACA once but we have to defend it a million times and there is no penalty for them taking wild shots at it.

this is why a president Clinton was such an important firewall for ACA, dreamers,
global stability and sanity

But you know "her emails both sides pay to play tuberculosis"
 
P

Pyrokai

Member
What the hell is going on. They're going on recess. They're not going on recess. The repeal is dead. The repeal is alive. McCain's a no. McCain's a yes because bestie Graham wrote it.

I'm so confused.
 
C

CrimzonSamurai

Member
It's just a statement of observation conveying no information or anything of significance.

It's literally just "hey these guys are buds he might vote for it."
 
C

Cybit

FGC Waterboy
I have a really bad feeling that we will fuck up the DACA deal because of those protests, and ACA will get blown up because we celebrated with 3 minutes left in the 4Q. Could easily see 2017 leading to DACA falling apart because we got too greedy with no leverage, and ACA getting gutted (but everything in the bill will be set to happen in 2021). :/
 
S

Spoiled Milk

Banned
Fenderputty said:
What does logic have to do with the reality of the situation?
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The Republicans control all branches of government so they shouldn't expect Democratic votes on anything unless it's for something the Republicans don't want. You've got it backwards in this case - the Republicans are the ones who mostly want the Dream Act (I think? I forget which reality I woke up in) so if there aren't enough votes and they really want Democratic votes they need to make concessions to the Democrats.

So the proper way to do this is to say: okay, both the Democrats and the Republicans want the DREAM Act. Pass that in a clean bill. Done. Now the Republicans want increased immigration enforcement and Democrats don't. So if the Republicans want that passed but don't have enough votes then they make an equally sized concession on something else.
 
P

pigeon

Banned
Blader said:
I mean, that shouldn't be our first offer, no. But if the process ultimately boils down to that or nothing, do we go with nothing? Do you tell the 25-year-olds who have been living and working here nearly their entire lives that because we wouldn't compromise on the number of ICE agents, they have to go back to their parents' home countries?
Click to expand...

The 25-year-olds in question are literally the ones holding this protest.

Fenderputty said:
What does logic have to do with the reality of the situation?
Click to expand...

This post does a good job of sounding hard-bitten and reasonable but actually just being incoherent.

The people protesting have a specific goal. They want that goal to be accomplished. The fact that you think they should want something different, or that you don't think the thing they want is feasible, is not really meaningful.
 
B

Bam Bam Baklava

Member
Cybit said:
I have a really bad feeling that we will fuck up the DACA deal because of those protests, and ACA will get blown up because we celebrated with 3 minutes left in the 4Q. Could easily see 2017 leading to DACA falling apart because we got too greedy with no leverage, and ACA getting gutted (but everything in the bill will be set to happen in 2021). :/
Click to expand...

Democrats got played into voting for a debt ceiling extension, which made all of this possible.
 
P

pigeon

Banned
Cybit said:
I have a really bad feeling that we will fuck up the DACA deal because of those protests, and ACA will get blown up because we celebrated with 3 minutes left in the 4Q. Could easily see 2017 leading to DACA falling apart because we got too greedy with no leverage, and ACA getting gutted (but everything in the bill will be set to happen in 2021). :/
Click to expand...

Bam Bam Baklava said:
Democrats got played into voting for a debt ceiling extension, which made all of this possible.
Click to expand...

None of this makes any sense at all.
 
F

Fenderputty

Banned
Spoiled Milk said:
The Republicans control all branches of government so they shouldn't expect Democratic votes on anything unless it's for something the Republicans don't want. You've got it backwards in this case - the Republicans are the ones who mostly want the Dream Act (I think? I forget which reality I woke up in) so if there aren't enough votes and they really want Democratic votes they need to make concessions to the Democrats.

So the proper way to do this is to say: okay, both the Democrats and the Republicans want the DREAM Act. Pass that in a clean bill. Done. Now the Republicans want increased immigration enforcement and Democrats don't. So if the Republicans want that passed but don't have enough votes then they make an equally sized concession on something else.
Click to expand...

So from the standpoint of leverage, wasn't Paul Ryan basically starting from the "give us wall funding or F off?" The only reason that fell through was because Trump undercut his negotiation and offered it for less.

Do we think Paul Ryan would have brought up a clean bill?


pigeon said:
This post does a good job of sounding hard-bitten and reasonable but actually just being incoherent.

The people protesting have a specific goal. They want that goal to be accomplished. The fact that you think they should want something different, or that you don't think the thing they want is feasible, is not really meaningful.
Click to expand...

This post does a good job of sounding hard-bitten and reasonable but actually just being incoherent.

Find me the post where I said they shouldn't protest for Amnesty. I'll wait. This entire conversation stemmed from a question about poo pooing Pelosi while she's doing the best she can right now with what she's got. That's the reality. All of my comments have come from this perspective.
 
P

PBY

Banned
Cybit said:
I have a really bad feeling that we will fuck up the DACA deal because of those protests, and ACA will get blown up because we celebrated with 3 minutes left in the 4Q. Could easily see 2017 leading to DACA falling apart because we got too greedy with no leverage, and ACA getting gutted (but everything in the bill will be set to happen in 2021). :/
Click to expand...

what are you even talking about
 
K

Kevinroc

Member
https://twitter.com/mikedebonis/status/910254629031641089

Bipartisan ACA fix effort is dead, @SenAlexander announces.

DKHfvQqWsAErSza.jpg
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