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[Tarydax]

.

Daaaaamn

 

[Brawndo Addict]

The implication is Cher intends to open up her home for dreamers when the time comes.

Okay, I'm gonna side with the random twitter user on this one then. Pretty fucking easy for celebrities to say they're gonna do all kinds of things on Twitter and get free press for non-existent sacrifices. What's wrong with waiting to talk game until you've actually have done something?

Cher's comeback is basically, "Oh yeah, well, just wait and see bitch". Uhh, that's exactly what the person said they are going to do ('wait and see'), it's not even a comeback. Or am I supposed to be impressed because Cher appended bitch to the end and that somehow transforms it into some amazing putdown?

 

[Abinash117]

Looking like Republicans will try to get wall funding with any DACA bill. Should be no Dem votes for that. Push comes to shove I think a clean DACA bill could be veto proof

I posted an article about that. In it said that the while some want that, actual dropping DACA will make negotiations for that hard. Plus Democrats think the wall is a none starter. Besides many Republicans are willing support a clean DACA bill anyway.

I think the administration probably wants a DACA bill with the wall, but Trump has little leverage.

 

[Zona]

Do you challenge them on their views at least?

Fucking constantly. I know them well enough that I've started preloading citations/articles into my phone if I'm pretty sure their going to bring an issue up.

Not that I can get them to actually read them most of the time, or accept it on the once in a blue moon event that they do read something I've provided. If it's not from Fox or further right it's fake, and information counter to their beliefs is wrong by virtue of not being what they believe. I've spent hours in conversation with all the effect of trying to tear down a brick wall with your head.

 

[metalslimer]

Looking like Republicans will try to get wall funding with any DACA bill. Should be no Dem votes for that. Push comes to shove I think a clean DACA bill could be veto proof

I don't think republicans can put together a veto proof number to pass a clean bill. I doubt it would ever even get brought to the floor.

 

[Y2Kev]

I think voting for the wall is giving trump what he wants. No one will blame democrats for this humanitarian crisis. Sucks but giving in will be an indelible stain.

 

[pigeon]

I think voting for the wall is giving trump what he wants. No one will blame democrats for this humanitarian crisis. Sucks but giving in will be an indelible stain.

I agree with this banker

 

[AntraxSuicide]

I mean, I guess?

This is tantamount to telling local law enforcement to actually detain ICE agents. Otherwise how are you going to stop them?

I don't actually hate this idea but it's, shall we say, fraught.

I think they meant legislatively. You cut funding for their vehicles and redefine their jurisdiction just like the FBI is currently restricted to interstate or federal crime without a local invitation. Make it so that ICE only has jurisdiction if requested from local law enforcement, and then slash their budgets to ribbons.

 

[Blader]

Trump is passing the buck to Congress (which, uh, I think is the opposite of how that saying goes) so I don't think we necessarily need veto-proof majorities to pass a DACA bill. Sessions is opposed to DACA as policy period, but Trump seems to have let himself open to signing a bill on it.

On the wall, while I can see where the PSA guys are coming from, I think voting for a wall would be like voting to invade Iraq. That's a stain on your record you'll never be absolved of, no matter what the reasoning for it may be. Especially after months/years of criticizing the wall over and over.

 

[pigeon]

I think they meant legislatively. You cut funding for their vehicles and redefine their jurisdiction just like the FBI is currently restricted to interstate or federal crime without a local invitation. Make it so that ICE only has jurisdiction if requested from local law enforcement, and then slash their budgets to ribbons.

Oh, sure, if we win in 2020.

I was focused on state legislature because they can act today.

 

[Sianos]

people who are salivating at any opportunity to "debate" the humanity of racial and sexual minorities are not going be satisfied with keeping it abstract forever

and those who cape for them are complicit in any horrors that result from this

"i didn't know the people calling for ethnic cleansing and torture would actually do it!" is a damn dirty lie

 

[Mark Andrew]

 

[nature boy]

Immigration can be a controversial topic. We all want safe, secure borders and a dynamic economy, and people of goodwill can have legitimate disagreements about how to fix our immigration system so that everybody plays by the rules.
But that’s not what the action that the White House took today is about. This is about young people who grew up in America – kids who study in our schools, young adults who are starting careers, patriots who pledge allegiance to our flag. These Dreamers are Americans in their hearts, in their minds, in every single way but one: on paper. They were brought to this country by their parents, sometimes even as infants. They may not know a country besides ours. They may not even know a language besides English. They often have no idea they’re undocumented until they apply for a job, or college, or a driver’s license.

Over the years, politicians of both parties have worked together to write legislation that would have told these young people – our young people – that if your parents brought you here as a child, if you’ve been here a certain number of years, and if you’re willing to go to college or serve in our military, then you’ll get a chance to stay and earn your citizenship. And for years while I was President, I asked Congress to send me such a bill.
That bill never came. And because it made no sense to expel talented, driven, patriotic young people from the only country they know solely because of the actions of their parents, my administration acted to lift the shadow of deportation from these young people, so that they could continue to contribute to our communities and our country. We did so based on the well-established legal principle of prosecutorial discretion, deployed by Democratic and Republican presidents alike, because our immigration enforcement agencies have limited resources, and it makes sense to focus those resources on those who come illegally to this country to do us harm. Deportations of criminals went up. Some 800,000 young people stepped forward, met rigorous requirements, and went through background checks. And America grew stronger as a result.

But today, that shadow has been cast over some of our best and brightest young people once again. To target these young people is wrong – because they have done nothing wrong. It is self-defeating – because they want to start new businesses, staff our labs, serve in our military, and otherwise contribute to the country we love. And it is cruel. What if our kid’s science teacher, or our friendly neighbor turns out to be a Dreamer? Where are we supposed to send her? To a country she doesn’t know or remember, with a language she may not even speak?

Let’s be clear: the action taken today isn’t required legally. It’s a political decision, and a moral question. Whatever concerns or complaints Americans may have about immigration in general, we shouldn’t threaten the future of this group of young people who are here through no fault of their own, who pose no threat, who are not taking away anything from the rest of us. They are that pitcher on our kid’s softball team, that first responder who helps out his community after a disaster, that cadet in ROTC who wants nothing more than to wear the uniform of the country that gave him a chance. Kicking them out won’t lower the unemployment rate, or lighten anyone’s taxes, or raise anybody’s wages.

It is precisely because this action is contrary to our spirit, and to common sense, that business leaders, faith leaders, economists, and Americans of all political stripes called on the administration not to do what it did today. And now that the White House has shifted its responsibility for these young people to Congress, it’s up to Members of Congress to protect these young people and our future. I’m heartened by those who’ve suggested that they should. And I join my voice with the majority of Americans who hope they step up and do it with a sense of moral urgency that matches the urgency these young people feel.

Ultimately, this is about basic decency. This is about whether we are a people who kick hopeful young strivers out of America, or whether we treat them the way we’d want our own kids to be treated. It’s about who we are as a people – and who we want to be.
What makes us American is not a question of what we look like, or where our names come from, or the way we pray. What makes us American is our fidelity to a set of ideals – that all of us are created equal; that all of us deserve the chance to make of our lives what we will; that all of us share an obligation to stand up, speak out, and secure our most cherished values for the next generation. That’s how America has traveled this far. That’s how, if we keep at it, we will ultimately reach that more perfect union.

https://www.facebook.com/barackobama/posts/10155227588436749

 

[Sirpopopop]

Don't punch down. We got our wake-up call last November. Nothing is washing this taste away.

For you, yes. However, eight years from now there are going to be younger voters who have never experienced the taste of a Trump presidency. They will easily fall prey to "both sides are the same" rhetoric, or just not vote for some reason or other.

 

[Aaron Strife]

Rubio, you fucking cowardly snake.

 

[AntraxSuicide]

Oh, sure, if we win in 2020.

I was focused on state legislature because they can act today.

I'd like to say locals can pitch a jurisdiction fit over ICE but I can't explicitly find the jurisdiction for the ERO branch.

Looking into that though, don't scrap ICE, just the ERO within it. HSI (the other part of ICE) seems fine.

 

[SpaceCadetKeon]

So far every Republican congressmen I've seen, except for McCain, has shit on Obama for how he enacted the program when they were the ones who did nothing and forced his hand. Eat a bag of dicks you partisan hacks.

 

[More_Badass]

Fucking constantly. I know them well enough that I've started preloading citations/articles into my phone if I'm pretty sure their going to bring an issue up.

Not that I can get them to actually read them most of the time, or accept it on the once in a blue moon event that they do read something I've provided. If it's not from Fox or further right it's fake, and information counter to their beliefs is wrong by virtue of not being what they believe. I've spent hours in conversation with all the effect of trying to tear down a brick wall with your head.

My dad once told me he wouldn't look at NYT or WaPo articles if I sent him one because they're not really journalists, but rather just lie and write stories that dont reflect reality

Dont reflect reality

That's what you're dealing with. It's not a misunderstanding or willful ignorance or something that could be countered by facts and data; it's literally seeing the world, its people, events, in a completely different lens. Mental schemas are very very hard to break

 

[Blader]

It is pretty remarkable that there really seems to be no bottom to Rubio's cowardice. "It is up to the White House to outline what kind of law they would like to sign"...that's YOUR job!

 

[Aaron Strife]

It is pretty remarkable that there really seems to be no bottom to Rubio's cowardice. "It is up to the White House to outline what kind of law they would like to sign"...that's YOUR job!

Like that ever stopped their endless parade of ACA repeal bills while Obama was president.

 

[RumbleHumble]

It is pretty remarkable that there really seems to be no bottom to Rubio's cowardice. "It is up to the White House to outline what kind of law they would like to sign"...that's YOUR job!

It's just more hot potato. No Republican wants to be accountable for the results of the Republican party.

Like that ever stopped their endless parade of ACA repeal bills while Obama was president.

It's easy to pull shit like this when you know it won't be law.

 

[Box of Kittens]

I just get so mad the more I think about the cowardice of the Republican Party on DACA. They want a Democratic president so it can remain in place while they rail against it for racist votes.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

I think voting for the wall is giving trump what he wants. No one will blame democrats for this humanitarian crisis. Sucks but giving in will be an indelible stain.

At the end of the day, the wall doesn't actually do anything. It's a white elephant - it's not going to be able to deter someone seriously minded to get across. The funding is... not insignificant, but slight compared to some of the things Trump could seriously take an axe to.

Meanwhile, allowing DACA to fail with no replacements would be a tragedy on an untold scale. You would see families ripped apart, people driven to suicide, an atmosphere of hate and fear dwarfing anything seen so far.

If I could be confident that the Republicans would abide by the deal, and they were unwilling to accept an alternative, I'd vote for the wall in return for DACA renewal. I wouldn't have that as my starting position, or even admit to it as an option too early in the process, but if protecting vulnerable children from harm meant sacrificing my position in future primaries, so be it.

 

[Diablos]

It is pretty remarkable that there really seems to be no bottom to Rubio's cowardice. "It is up to the White House to outline what kind of law they would like to sign"...that's YOUR job!

Republicans are like 'no u' with each other

 

[Box of Kittens]

https://twitter.com/daveweigel/status/905148734299926528

Dave Weigel‏Verified account
@daveweigel

.@LindseyGrahamSC rules out "the wall" as a DREAM add-on: "If that’s what you mean by border security, you’re not going to get the votes."

Remind me again why we should do this.

 

[Host Samurai]

I think voting for the wall is giving trump what he wants. No one will blame democrats for this humanitarian crisis. Sucks but giving in will be an indelible stain.

The best part of a wall going up is that it will get knocked the fuck down because its nothing more than a shallow racist vanity monument. He will flip his shit once its nothing more than rubble.

 

[Finale Fireworker]

For you, yes. However, eight years from now there are going to be younger voters who have never experienced the taste of a Trump presidency. They will easily fall prey to "both sides are the same" rhetoric, or just not vote for some reason or other.

This is why we must take it upon ourselves, no matter the political climate, to make the younger generation extremely miserable and woke.

Every day, I go to a Junior High School and slap ten children and tell them to either vote left or get used to it. This is my duty. I must assuage my Millennial Guilt™.

 

[Hubbl3]

https://twitter.com/daveweigel/status/905148734299926528



Remind me again why we should do this.

That top reply nails it:

TDI‏
@jfarrlley

Replying to @daveweigel @LindseyGrahamSC
Fast forward 2 months : Graham a yes vote on Dreamer act with Wall funding

 

[Vimes]

The PSA "build the wall to save the dreamers" thing was just them discussing a hypothetical, I don't understand how it became a Thing.

I think as the political calculus around DACA shapes up we're gonna be reminded that the wall remains an unpopular, expensive, racist pipe dream. Nobody likes it except the deplorables.

I love Crooked Media and they are essential to me making sense of wtf is going on most of the time, but they are wrong about things sometimes.

 

[Blader]

That top reply nails it:

He just said they wouldn't have 60 votes for it, not that he wouldn't vote for it himself!

The PSA "build the wall to save the dreamers" thing was just them discussing a hypothetical, I don't understand how it became a Thing.

I think as the political calculus around DACA shapes up we're gonna be reminded that the wall remains an unpopular, expensive, racist pipe dream. Nobody likes it except the deplorables.

I love Crooked Media and they are essential to me making sense of wtf is going on most of the time, but they are wrong about things sometimes.

It seemed like a pretty impromptu talking point. They raised it and settled on a position within like 30 seconds. I'll be curious to hear if they follow up on it in today's pod.

 

[Diablos]

Lindsey Graham must really hate his life.

 

[Box of Kittens]

It is pretty remarkable that there really seems to be no bottom to Rubio's cowardice. "It is up to the White House to outline what kind of law they would like to sign"...that's YOUR job!

"DACA was usurpation of the powers belonging to the legislative branch by the executive branch. Now we can finally come up with a legislative solution... just as soon as the executive tells us what to do."

 

[Finale Fireworker]

Lindsey Graham must really hate his life.

Hey, wow, finally: a politician I can relate to.

 

[SomewhatGroovy]

I agree with this banker

Pfft, I never listen to Bond Traders.

 

[Tamanon]

It's weird how they're acting like Congress was prevented from doing a bill while the executive action was in place.

It's not like they weren't allowed to, or weren't allowed to for ALL THE FUCKING YEARS.

 

[Wilsongt]

It's weird how they're acting like Congress was prevented from doing a bill while the executive action was in place.

It's not like they weren't allowed to, or weren't allowed to for ALL THE FUCKING YEARS.

They were all for immigration reform until 2015 hit and the Trump base made it a wedge issue. Then Rubio became "yes massa Trump. Immigration bad massa Trump".

 

[A Human Becoming]

Whenever I think about moving, I realize I'm an example of a problem Democrats have. I live in New Hampshire Congressional District 1, which Sea-Porter (D) won by <5k votes and Trump by 1-2%. As people here know, Hillary won the state by <3k votes and Hassan by a hair over 1k. While victories by Shea-Porter and Hillary were not consequential, Hassan's victory was for stopping the disastrous Republican healthcare 'reform'. The three votes for Democrats between my parents and myself mattered.

My small town went for Trump 2:1 and while there are cities in my CD that went for Hillary (Manchester, Dover, Portsmouth) and on the other side of the state (Nashua, Concord), being in a community I don't feel shares my values isn't the only reason I want out of the state. While there are certain aspects I like about New Hampshire, such as not being particularly religious, being more socially liberal and the general climate (I hate the heat), I can't live the way I want here. The state has struggled to retain younger people: one reason being they don't want to invest in public commodities, such as infrastructure, that make travel more accessible. We're one of the oldest states in the country, and the vast majority of job growth in the next decade will be in healthcare to aid the elderly. After looking at the election results from November, I really believe Hillary only won here because of college students, which Republicans I feel are trying to disenfranchise.

The desire to leave your home state isn't unusual after more than two decades of residence, but it's where I see myself most comfortable (if money were no problem) isn't strategically beneficial: Massachusetts, Washington, Vermont, Oregon and Hawaii. Even if I were to move to the less liberal state, such as Michigan and Iowa, I would want to be in Iowa City or Ann Arbor, both heavy Democratic areas.

I'm over the rural life, and it's where Democrats struggle now. The rural/urban divide has always existed in the US, and probably does in all countries, but it seems to be getting worse due to demographic and economic changes.

 

[Drkirby]

The best part of a wall going up is that it will get knocked the fuck down because its nothing more than a shallow racist vanity monument. He will flip his shit once its nothing more than rubble.

If any part of the wall goes up, I expect him to be dead by the time its knocked down.

 

[Poodlestrike]

What?

Please expand on this. You think we could win Afghanistan?

I'm not him, but it's doable. You stick enough men and materiel in there to push the Taliban out of contested areas, give the local government time to consolidate support and gain permanency and legitimacy in the eyes of the populace, then rinse and repeat.

The problem is the timescale. "Winning" Afghanistan would be a multigenerational task.

 

[pigeon]

I'm not him, but it's doable. You stick enough men and materiel in there to push the Taliban out of contested areas, give the local government time to consolidate support and gain permanency and legitimacy in the eyes of the populace, then rinse and repeat.

The problem is the timescale. "Winning" Afghanistan would be a multigenerational task.

I mean...okay. Yes, I agree, if we include forcibly colonizing Afghanistan over 50-100 years as a potential option, then the problem is political will, not capability. There is no political support for a campaign of imperialist conquest in the 21st century.

 

[Zona]

My dad once told me he wouldn't look at NYT or WaPo articles if I sent him one because they're not really journalists, but rather just lie and write stories that dont reflect reality

Dont reflect reality

That's what you're dealing with. It's not a misunderstanding or willful ignorance or something that could be countered by facts and data; it's literally seeing the world, its people, events, in a completely different lens. Mental schemas are very very hard to break

Believe me I know, it's like we exist in two separate realities that somehow physically overlap. I don't know what to do when it's obvious we have completely different A priori assumptions. I keep trying because I love the guy and I'm not someone who can ignore the views he holds, especially as he's a cop, but I despair of ever getting through to them.

 

[Finale Fireworker]

Whenever I think about moving, I realize I'm an example of a problem Democrats have.

[...]

I just want to say that, while I don't have any comfort for your situation, I can relate to it. My fiance and I are very fortunate live in Southern Maine and actually have decent jobs here. Southern Maine is safe and blue and feels good to live in, but it feels extremely precarious. Our Governor is an insane psychopath and Susan Collins gets to skate by as a moderate darling. There is a lot of work to be done in Maine because our historically independent state is becoming redder, older, and weaker.

Maine is an extremely difficult state to live and work in. The younger population empties out of the state like there's a hole in the bottom.

Ironically, a lot of them move to New Hampshire. But most go straight through to Massachusetts.

My fear about living in Maine, which is a state I truly love, is that it will become redder and redder as the population just gets older and older. The state is completely impotent economically. What will it be like to live here five years from now? Will I still be happy?

For now, I guess we'll just stay and keep voting. But the thought of there being more lucrative pastures in more lively, bluer states makes it hard to stay put.

 

[Joe]

How would you describe the effects of today's news on Dreamers?

I want to write letters to my representatives but I'm having trouble properly and adequately framing the effects Dreamers will endure because of this.

I'm thinking along the lines of something like: "putting the future of 800,000 honest Americans in limbo over the next 6 months" but that is quite the understatement and doesn't come close to demonstrating the seriousness of the issue.

 

[Poodlestrike]

I mean...okay. Yes, I agree, if we include forcibly colonizing Afghanistan over 50-100 years as a potential option, then the problem is political will, not capability. There is no political support for a campaign of imperialist conquest in the 21st century.

Well, yeah. Whatever we do in Afghanistan is going to be an imperialist conquest, we ousted the local government and installed one more to our liking.

There aren't any good options, here.

 

[whyamihere]

Oh so now you Republicans care about the "rule of law"

 

[Wilsongt]

How would you describe the effects of today's news on Dreamers?

I want to write letters to my representatives but I'm having trouble properly and adequately framing the effects Dreamers will endure because of this.

I'm thinking along the lines of something like: "putting the future of 800,000 honest Americans in limbo over the next 6 months" but that is quite the understatement and doesn't come close to demonstrating the seriousness of the issue.

Maybe try to find out how many dreamers are in the army. Then say they should replace those dreamers with the sons and daughters of congress members because they care so much about positions being taken away from true Americans.

 

[RDreamer]

My dad once told me he wouldn't look at NYT or WaPo articles if I sent him one because they're not really journalists, but rather just lie and write stories that dont reflect reality

Dont reflect reality

That's what you're dealing with. It's not a misunderstanding or willful ignorance or something that could be countered by facts and data; it's literally seeing the world, its people, events, in a completely different lens. Mental schemas are very very hard to break

My dad once sent me and my sister an email about how Obamacare going through would make my mom closer her business to try and guilt us from voting Obama, basically. I was concerned so I spent an entire day reading over the actual text of the law and sent him a response citing almost nothing but the actual text of the law.

His response?

"Nice lefty talking points, but reality doesn't work like that."

 

[dramatis]

It’s unclear if the administration will ask for something in turn for protecting DACA recipients. For example, Trump, who has made no secret of his desire to erect a wall along the U.S.-Mexico border, may offer to sign a DACA bill in exchange for Democrats agreeing to fund the barrier. But anti-immigration hardliners would oppose that arrangement.

“Border-wall-DACA tradeoff, no deal,” Chris Chmielenski, the director of content and activism at NumbersUSA, told me last week, when asked how he would feel if DACA was traded for border-wall funding. “If you’re talking about border-wall funding in exchange for DACA, that’s a non-starter,” Robert Law, the director of government relations at FAIR, said Tuesday.

It seems like the opposite side doesn't like the idea of a bargain either.

Immigration Hardliners Cautiously Praise Trump for Ending DACA

 

[pigeon]

How would you describe the effects of today's news on Dreamers?

I want to write letters to my representatives but I'm having trouble properly and adequately framing the effects Dreamers will endure because of this.

I'm thinking along the lines of something like: "putting the future of 800,000 honest Americans in limbo over the next 6 months" but that is quite the understatement and doesn't come close to demonstrating the seriousness of the issue.

I mean, many of them will literally die if they are deported back to a country they've never lived in and don't speak the language of.

All of their lives will be destroyed.

 

[Blader]

I mean...okay. Yes, I agree, if we include forcibly colonizing Afghanistan over 50-100 years as a potential option, then the problem is political will, not capability. There is no political support for a campaign of imperialist conquest in the 21st century.

I think capability is also probably an issue. The effort would require exponentially more troops than Trump wants to send in, and to sustain those levels for decades. Is our military really able to occupy a country not just for that long, but to do so for that long with many tens of thousands of troops regularly?