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[Stoney Mason]

On the experience issue, first she's VP not president. So you could argue that she will learn from mccain while being the VP and get experience.

I could make that argument about anybody including Dan Quayle. Like I said, I think she is a good pick strategically and politically. And there were definitely some hypocrisy issues with Biden as the selection imo but I think she represents some hypocrisy issues herself.

 

[GhaleonEB]

Obama got a four point bouce in this morning's Rasmussen tracker. Similar to yesterday's five point Gallup bounce.

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/pub...ial_election/daily_presidential_tracking_poll

 

[Amir0x]

Official: Palin is pick, FoxNews

 

[Cloudy]

The only real hit against her right now is "experience" which is obviously something Obama does not want to dwell on

But McCain wants to and this takes that away. This is a serious reach that reeks of desperation IMO

If Obama had picked Hilary, there's NO way they would have done this..

 

[Y2Kev]

Although....how does she fill McCain's "weakness" on the economy? That's why it makes no sense.

She doesn't, true. But I don't think most people are thinking this deeply when they step into the booth. She brings a number of "surface" pros: she's not old, she's a woman, she fits all the checklist descriptors of what a Republican needs to be.

All I'm saying is the Obama campaign has a lot of work to do in characterizing her in the way that all of us know she needs to be characterized and we should NOT laugh at this pick.

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

Nobody asked these things about Biden because Biden complementing Obama by filling a "weakness" that people perceived to have about Obama, real or not.

Nobody is gonna ask about Palin's experience except for people thinking very carefully about the implications of McCain's age (and also people who probably weren't going to vote McCain anyway). I don't think that any inexperienced labels will stick-- primarily because I'm not sure the Democrats are good at this smear thing.

I think this is the best possible pick he could have made.

Every single metric for VP begins and ends with Presidentiality. Every conversation about either pick for either candidate has started and ended with that question. "Could they be president?"

But in all seriousness, punditry has no bearing on the effect of the pick. More glaringly obvious is what she absolutely does not bring to the ticket, which is "Anything Significant". No key states. Any female appeal is offset by her pro-life stance.

It does nothing to the meter, and does nothing to court independents or battleground voters, which is the only way McCain can win.

 

[C.Dark.DN]

anyone in here actually hear her voice? it decreases the sex appeal dramatically.

 

[devildog820]

Halperin has met her and likes her but thinks this would be a dumb move. And despite him being a doofuss in my view he is a good analog of the MSM.

Doesn't matter. In order to avoid being accused by the GOoPers as a collection of liberal hacks, old media will spin it as a good pick. Bolstered by pundit hacks, old media will spin this into a great pick.

 

[Krowley]

Although....how does she fill McCain's "weakness" on the economy? That's why it makes no sense.

she is a double down on McCains maverick image because of her reform reputation and her outsider quality. She's also a move towards the base because of her very strong pro-life credentials and a reach for women voters becasue of her gender and a grab for male voters cause she's kinda hot.

 

[eznark]

The major setback being the Hillary factor. She probably won't let a woman waltz into the whitehouse without a fight.

Monica?

 

[Amir0x]

Monica?

oh shi--

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

She doesn't, true. But I don't think most people are thinking this deeply when they step into the booth. She brings a number of "surface" pros: she's not old, she's a woman, she fits all the checklist descriptors of what a Republican needs to be.

All I'm saying is the Obama campaign has a lot of work to do in characterizing her in the way that all of us know she needs to be characterized and we should NOT laugh at this pick.

Can I still laugh? Picking a VP candidate just to dominate a news cycle has to be the dumbest impetus ever.

 

[AstroLad]

she fits all the checklist descriptors of what a Republican needs to be.

oh so i guess alan keyes is chopped liver now?

 

[DarienA]

I can't wait to hear the "logic" behind this veep choice.

 

[Huzah]

I don't know anyone here who isn't voting for McSame because he's old.

Right so who are these people that not only care that Mccain's VP is inexperienced but also fear that Mccain will die very soon after he takes office and care enough to not vote republican?

 

[gkryhewy]

she is a double down on McCains maverick image because of her reform reputation and her outsider quality. She's also a move towards the base because of her very strong pro-life credentials and a reach for women voters becasue of her gender and a grab for male voters cause she's kinda hot.

Does not compute

Monica?

:lol :lol Nice work!

 

[giga]

I think the pick is smart. The only real hit against her right now is "experience" which is obviously something Obama does not want to dwell on. Additionally, she meets every requirement of the base, which McCain clearly does not.

And she is an attractive women, who will play well on TV.

Better than his other options anyway.

But it still makes McCain look hypocritical with all the experience attacks on Obama. If he continues those attacks, you sure can bet the Obama campaign will call him out on it.

 

[PhoenixDark]

Why are people attacking the choice and her? She's got more executive experience than Obama and McCain

doesn't make her a good politician of course but jeez. I wonder how the PUMAs will take this. They clearly care more about Hillary than women's issues, so the possibility of this woman becoming the first female president could convince them to vote Obama....

 

[The Chosen One]

Last week, when it was Obama doing the cockteasing, it was just as stupid. And with all the praise Obama got for keeping his pick secret, McCain has done a BETTER job. He's unfurling his VP pick today and folks are STILL guessing. Obama had to rush out the text message after the press figured out who it was. I'm still pissed that he didn't send the text message before the press owned him.

The media is pissed right now though. The difference is last week Obama didn't have campaign aids leak FALSE info. They were just coy and didn't leak anything at all. This time around the McCain campaign seems to be deliberately leaking FALSE info to create chaos and knock the Obama's speech over the front page.

The problem is it seems the McCain campaign might burn some bridges by doing it this way. Their idea of keeping a secret is throwing a bunch of shit in the air and have the the press scramble through the manurer.

 

[GhaleonEB]

Official: Palin is pick, FoxNews

I'm kind of out of the loop thanks to cavorting around at PAX, but isn't this a really transparent attempt to steal female votes? My understanding of her from a few weeks agon is that she would otherwise be a terrible pick.

 

[Frank the Great]

All Obama needs to do is put out an ad with Hillary Clinton blasting Palin for being pro-life and women vote=secure.

 

[so_awes]

The Daily Show's take on Obama's life http://www.comedycentral.com/videos/index.jhtml?videoId=183509

:lol :lol

 

[eznark]

I agree with the people saying that now McCain can't hit Obama on experience, but I think that ship has sailed anyway. The argument becomes circular and allows for Palin to be an acceptable choice as experience has been rendered moot.

If you just look at what a Republican candidate "should" be according to the base, Palin is it.


This is the correct "ideological" pick and only looks desperate if you want it to.

 

[Smiles and Cries]

Official: Palin is pick, FoxNews

Alaska is mighty cold

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

But it still makes McCain look hypocritical with all the experience attacks on Obama. If he continues those attacks, you sure can bet the Obama campaign will call him out on it.

They already have this morning at just the idea of it. I'm telling you. This was a total audible.

 

[Jason's Ultimatum]

I'm kind of out of the loop thanks to cavorting around at PAX, but isn't this a really transparent attempt to steal female votes? My understanding of her from a few weeks agon is that she would otherwise be a terrible pick.

Steal female votes, as in Democratic female votes? I really don't see them crossing over to support Palin, judging by her stance.

 

[AstroLad]

All Obama needs to do is put out an ad with Hillary Clinton blasting Palin for being pro-life and women vote=secure.

hillary is the real winner here

 

[Beer Monkey]

Which do you like for the next MoveOn.org ad:

"One heartbeat from the Presidency?"

or

"How dumb does John McCain think you are?"

 

[Amir0x]

I'm kind of out of the loop thanks to cavorting around at PAX, but isn't this a really transparent attempt to steal female votes? My understanding of her from a few weeks agon is that she would otherwise be a terrible pick.

It is super fucking transparent. But, as I said, she brings a number of compelling advantages outside of just being female. She could dissipate severe attack dogging from Biden, else risk sympathy vote. Remember during the primaries when Hillary was perceived to be unfairly wronged, and the media narrative as a result? This is like that.

She has core conservative values, minor executive experience and most specifically she can still highlight the idea of insurgency in the Republican party as a well known whistle blower and a maverick pick for sure.

The argument becomes circular and allows for Palin to be an acceptable choice as experience has been rendered moot.

Obama sort of GRABBED that validation by virtue of destroying one of the most powerful political machines of all time. Palin...hasn't.

 

[eznark]

To those who are claiming hypocrisy...it's politics, hypocrisy does not matter.

I want Change, give me insider Biden:I want experience, give me Palin

What is the difference.

 

[Tamanon]

I can't wait to hear the "logic" behind this veep choice.

She keeps Alaska's 3 electoral votes in the R column! Somehow he found someone with a state that is worth less in the college than Delaware.

Ami: Remember, there's only one vice-presidential debate, so Biden doesn't have to be too much of an attack dog. He can just keep focusing on McCain

 

[PhatSaqs]

The Palin pick shakes things up again. Tho it undermines McCains experience argument.

 

[The Chosen One]

Either way this is McCain's first big executive decision and he's flunking with flying colors. He's making a extremely reactive decision. It really doesn't seem this was well thought out at all.

 

[VanMardigan]

She brings MUCH NEEDED youth, charm, conservatism, and plain old variety and spice to McCain's ticket. His candidacy has lacked the dynamic enthusiasm of Obama's campaign, and Palin brings a buzz and excitement that the Republicans haven't had all year.

Kiss the DNC buzz goodbye, cause this weekend's going to be all about Palin. And really, there was no other viable pick that would have the kind of short term positive impact and buzz that Palin will have. The only question is, how will she help the ticket beyond the short term buzz. If it's Palin, it's the perfect pick for McCain right now. I'm not so sure about a month from now, though.

Is she a good debater? Is she a dynamic speaker? Is she good on the stump? Can she handle the ridiculous pressure of presidential campaigning?

Those are the things I'd worry about if I was McCain. But for now, I'm sure he'll be enjoying the massive amounts of attention this pick will generate.

 

[delirium]

The media is pissed right now though. The difference is last week Obama didn't have campaign aids leak FALSE info. They were just coy and didn't leak anything at all. This time around the McCain campaign seems to be deliberately leaking FALSE info to create chaos and knock the Obama's speech over the front page.

The problem is it seems the McCain campaign might burn some bridges by doing it this way. Their idea of keeping a secret is throwing a bunch of shit in the air and have the the press scramble through the manurer.

I don't remember any leak saying one it was this person or another. Most of the "leaks" have been deconfirming people as candidates.

 

[Azrael]

Although....how does she fill McCain's "weakness" on the economy? That's why it makes no sense.

She doesn't, but I think the Republicans know they aren't going to close the gap on the economy this election. They're relying on a mix of identity politics (people who won't vote for Obama because his skin has too much melanin + voters who will vote for McCain because Palin has a vagina) and foreign policy, which is laughable because eight years of neocon foreign policy has been disastrous and McCain is even more neocon than Bush, but the average American is more ignorant/uninformed about foreign policy than any other issue, and they gravitate to who talks toughest every time.

 

[KingGondo]

But in all seriousness, punditry has no bearing on the effect of the pick. More glaringly obvious is what she absolutely does not bring to the ticket, which is "Anything Significant". No key states. Any female appeal is offset by her pro-life stance.

Not all women are pro-choice. Most voters don't have some kind of mental check-list like pundits (and some posters here) seem to believe. Only the die-hard pro-choicers will be turned off, and they're not voting for McCain anyway.

 

[thefit]

If they Picked Palin because they fell for the medias story that there was a real riff between Clinton female supporters and so thought they could capitalize on the scorned woman vote with a woman of their own....WOW, major backfire. Its evident they did fall for it by trying to reach out to Clinto supporters in those ads they ran.:lol

I can't wait for the debates.

Will she say she has no problem with a man telling her how to decide on her body? How will she claim to be her own person when the party she works for loves telling her gender where their place should be, or is she just there to be his work wife?:lol :lol

 

[vitaflo]

Every single metric for VP begins and ends with Presidentiality. Every conversation about either pick for either candidate has started and ended with that question. "Could they be president?"

Bingo. She is a total failure of a pick in this regard. Especially when everyone in the media has been talking for months that McCain needs to pick someone who could be ready to be president day one either because of his age, or because he will only run for one term, etc. The pick is scary for that reason alone.

It's also a stupid pick because Pawlenty is just as much a card carrying Republican who hits all the points but has VASTLY more experience. This pick is such a reach it's a joke.

 

[Huzah]

I could make that argument about anybody including Dan Quayle. Like I said, I think she is a good pick strategically and politically. And there were definitely some hypocrisy issues with Biden as the selection imo but I think she represents some hypocrisy issues herself.

Well I think Dan Quayle's downfall was his public gaffe problems, the potato potatoe, the kennedy smackdown etc.

People, VP selection probably only has effect on voters on the fence, and most voters on the fence are people who don't pay much attention to politics or think deeply about it.

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

What is the difference.

The Democratic Base is bigger than The Republican Base. Full stop.

McCain needed (past tense, that ship has sailed if this is the pick) to appeal to independents and moderates. It's just the numbers.

 

[Fatalah]

MSNBC doesn't have a web simulcast up anymore

Where can I watch live news coverage, CNN has that stupid turner plugin...

 

[Forgotten_Taco]

She's going to get killed in the vp debate... Do people watch those?

 

[Fjolle]

Her oldest daughter is kinda hot.. And legal :lol

 

[eznark]

The Democratic Base is bigger than The Republican Base. Full stop.

McCain needed (past tense, that ship has sailed if this is the pick) to appeal to independents and moderates. It's just the numbers.

oh, I just meant in terms of hypocrisy. Strategically I'm not sure about the pick, but ideologically it was his best bet if he really is a conservative as he claims.

 

[ALeperMessiah]

Of all the names mentioned probably the best pick he could have made.

 

[Y2Kev]

It's Palin!

 

[Smiles and Cries]

shit shit shit
how will this play out? dammit

 

[tanod]

shit shit shit
how will this play out? dammit

Ferraro II

I don't know anything about this person that would qualify her to be president.

 

[Fatalah]

Her oldest daughter is kinda hot.. And legal :lol

Biden ripping into this woman on national TV will absolutely turn off the woman voter. Damnit hell, KARL ROVE YOU SUCK!