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[VALIS]

Ive seen Clark a few times on Bill Maher, he can speak with enthusiasm if need be, and he has the national security cred which i see becoming increasingly important.

I love Wesley Clark, I've been a fanboy of his for over a decade. But I'm not disappointed he wasn't chosen because apparently he wasn't in the running anyway. Whether he didn't want the job or it was some other reason, I can't be disappointed over them not picking someone who apparently wasn't an option.

 

[The Librarian]

So where will Biden be tomorrow?

 

[reilo]

So where will Biden be tomorrow?

Denver?

 

[teiresias]

The pundits seem to like him anyway - at least so far.

 

[laserbeam]

So where will Biden be tomorrow?

Tommorrow is closing ceremony of the olympics etc. Doubt it will be a major political day. At Denver or on his way there for sure

 

[mckmas8808]

Yes Biden is smart, we don't know if he'll be a great adviser yet. That's the point of these statements.

After hearing Biden talk on many videos and reading up on him, he doesn't seem like the person to end up like Cheany. I don't see any bad here.

 

[Bulla564]

Fox News got a hold of the Barack America...

Next up... hair sticking out

 

[Amir0x]

After hearing Biden talk on many videos and reading up on him, he doesn't seem like the person to end up like Cheany. I don't see any bad here.

Which is fine, perfectly reasonable opinion. I was only decrying the attempt to preemptively serve crow or assess the candidate's worth the moment the president is elected.

For my money, I don't like Biden for our differences on the issues and his mouth and various other problems which don't need to be restated again. But even with this knowledge, he may turn out to be a good VP despite my predictions... this sort of finality of judgment won't be achieved until several years into the presidency, and probably longer. Politics are serious business.

 

[Deus Ex Machina]

It's Michelle and Jill!

 

[Amir0x]

Mr Garrison: "Are they going to lez out?'

 

[Door2Dawn]

Faptastic!

 

[GhaleonEB]

The campaign says Obama and Biden will not campaign together when Obama heads to Wisconsin, Iowa, Missouri, and Montana over the next four days.

So that means that after today, their next appearance together will be after the convention.

from first read

Odd, I assumed they'd do the route to the convention together.

 

[Clevinger]

"She also has a doctorate degree which is a problem."

Huh...looks like Biden only wants women cooking and cleaning. Hillary supporters will love that.

He means dumbfuck Republicans will use it to paint them as "elitist".

Though I guess we already have one painting him as a misogynist now, too...

 

[Tyrone Slothrop]

For my money, I don't like Biden for our differences on the issues .

and what are those differences?

 

[Karma Kramer]

Holy shit

 

[GhaleonEB]

He means dumbfuck Republicans will use it to paint them as "elitist".

Though I guess we already have one painting him as a misogynist now, too...

Bingo.

 

[The Orange]

TWO TIMES.

 

[Karma Kramer]

This event today really solidified my feelings that Obama/Biden should be the winning ticket come November. I just don't see how McCain can compete with the message Obama and Biden sent today.

 

[reilo]

from first read

Odd, I assumed they'd do the route to the convention together.

They'll probably have Biden talk in PA, Ohio, etc.

 

[Anno]

Being nominated (by McCain) for the Republican VP spot wouldn't be worth facing Biden in a debate. This is probably the first time I will really watch the VP debate with a lot of enthusiasm. I can't wait.

 

[Verano]

I'm not pessimistic. The fact that some here are choosing to lack perspective is the issue.

The question is: Can this guy lead the country, should Obama be incapacitated in some way? Will this guy be an asset to his presidency?

We know how Gore turned out, we know how Cheney turned out. We know how LBJ turned out. These questions are important, because it means more than just an attack dog during the GE. It's a sad day when we think these people only matter to serve as a mouthpiece for a three month period.

Ok, but aren't you cynical? I say that because of the what you expect from VP's to fail in the end.

Well, Ami, what's an alternative that you could suggest since most VP's up until now haven't satisfied you?

 

[Amir0x]

and what are those differences?

I am not going to state them again. I've wrote up two long statements on my disagreement, feel free to search for them within this very thread. Every time I go on and on and keep repeating myself, people start complaining. So I keep it short now.

Ok, but aren't you cynical? I say that because of the what you expect from VP's to fail in the end.

I don't expect VPs to fail. Cannot people separate a disagreement with a specific candidate? Strategically, I don't know how Biden will work... though I suspect the negatives outweigh the positives, based on what I've said in the past. My problem is with Biden politically, and many of the statements he has made over the years.

I would have been OK with a few of the names thrown out on the short list, actually... just not Clark or Biden. Sebelius, Richardson, Rendell, Kaine were more appealing to me personally. I understand I disagree with these candidates in many specific ways as well, and my views are extreme enough that this will always happen. But Biden... well, I've already said why.

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

The reason why Biden was picked was clearly on display today. When Obama knocks Bush and Republicans you agree and nod your head, but when Biden does it it has some teeth and spit behind it and it's inspiring and you clench your fists a little. Obama's campaign needed this. The nice guy routine was suffering against the GOP's smear machine.

They desperately DESPERATELY needed a way to connect Obama's policy and politics with Joe and Joesephine Lunchpail in Middle Class America (because his policy and politics is actually directly in tune with their needs, but so many of them are still apprehensive) and Biden is the perfect guy to do it. I don't understand the trepidation at all. It seems like he's exactly what the campaign needs to win the election.

As far as undermining the Change message, at the end of the day Obama is running as a Democrat, representing the Democratic Party, a deeply entrenched political organization. But at the end of the day, Obama is still going to be the one in charge and that agent of Change. With Biden it's a win-win. He can assuage the fears of dyed in the wool Regancrats and even Independents but still be subservient to the policies of Obama.

 

[The Librarian]

Being nominated (by McCain) for the Republican VP spot wouldn't be worth facing Biden in a debate. This is probably the first time I will really watch the VP debate with a lot of enthusiasm. I can't wait.

Same here. I am now looking forward to the VP debate.

 

[theviolenthero]

What roll did Obama's week long vacation play in Mccain's surge in the polls?

 

[Tyrone Slothrop]

I am not going to state them again. I've wrote up two long statements on my disagreement, feel free to search for them within this very thread. Every time I go on and on and keep repeating myself, people start complaining. So I keep it short now.

yes i followed all your posts but i never really caught what exactly you found objectionable about his social policies and about his stance on issues (though maybe I missed it). but if you just want to drop it, that's fine and i understand.

 

[Mandark]

I am not going to state them again. I've wrote up two long statements on my disagreement

So just link them for the guy.

 

[tanod]

Today's speeches went a long way towards convincing me that Biden was the perfect choice for Obama. Awesome!

 

[kevm3]

I think Biden was a great pick for Obama. He goes against the 'lack of experience' argument. He's also the 'bad cop' that the Obama campaign needed. Obama was getting trashed by the republican sleaze machine, while Mccain was getting a free pass in the media. Now they have a guy that can and WILL call McCain out.

 

[Slurpy]

It's amazing how Amir0x looks so enraged hy the fact that people actually want to be excited today- God forbid!

Yeah, we get it, you think Biden is a horrible choice. Ok then. Stop raining on the parade for those that think otherwise, and those are are excited and want to enjoy today. You can bitch all you want for the next few months.

 

[ToyMachine228]

OBAMA-BIDEN 08 BITCHES!

 

[Amir0x]

It's amazing how Amir0x looks so enraged hy the fact that people actually want to be excited today- God forbid!

Yeah, we get it, you think Biden is a horrible choice. Ok then. Stop raining on the parade for those that think otherwise, and those are are excited and want to enjoy today. You can bitch all you want for the next few months.

'raining on the parade'? Is this some sort of fucking happy day rainbow fairy unicorn party I should know about? No offense Slurpy but for the sake of everyone I hope PoliGAF really doesn't have this sort of short-term memory, or fear of "the other side." I certainly hope Obama isn't as scared of differing opinions.

1. We're not going to prevent negativity and criticism about a choice simply because others are happy about it. That's not "raining on a parade", that's giving voice to all sides of the debate. I have articulated my feelings in depth so that people may understand, rather than attempt to derail or troll with one-liners like that Secret guy who got banned last night.

2. Nobody is enraged that anyone else wants to be excited. I've shared in many PoliGAFers excitement for months and months and months. So despite your short term memory and your sort of sickly, pathetic annoyance at the idea of negativism, I only want what I feel is the best for this country and myself. Much like i assume you do.

3. I'd always be much shorter if I didn't have to respond to silly bullshit, like this post of yours.

 

[adamsappel]

random observation: I got my text message last night

Spoiler

while I was having sex

oh Obama, you naughty little dog you

Did you stop to answer the phone?

 

[Insertia]

It's amazing how Amir0x looks so enraged hy the fact that people actually want to be excited today- God forbid!

Yeah, we get it, you think Biden is a horrible choice. Ok then. Stop raining on the parade for those that think otherwise, and those are are excited and want to enjoy today. You can bitch all you want for the next few months.

^^^
For the motherfuckin truth.

We get it, you're trying to be 'reason' or something. Now isn't the time buddy, people are excited. Save it for later.

 

[Amir0x]

We get it, you're trying to be 'reason' or something. Now isn't the time buddy, people are excited. Save it for later.

:lol

Now this position has moved from being sort of pathetic to hilarious and clearly an attempt at parody.

As if the reason for my disagreement is for some sort of discordance in a GAF forum, rather than logical and educated disappointment about a choice that can impact the country. As if, even worse, these negative thoughts should be restrained or censored in favor of blatant, unabashed dick sucking merely because the "atmosphere" may be impacted!

Sorry, that's not how it works in PoliGAF, that's now how it works on GAF, and it's not how it works in any thread or forum or place of discussion. Welcome to the real world

 

[Hitokage]

biden far from rich. he ranks 99th in the senate.

http://www.opensecrets.org/pfds/CIDsummary.php?CID=N00001669&year=2005

Net Worth: From $-306,984 to $211,997
Ranks 99th among all members
of the Senate
Assets: 19 totaling $58,016 to $352,000
Liabilities: 4 totaling $140,003 to $365,000

That's 2005 data, and it's even worse looking at the poorest 25 of the 2006 combined congressional net worth rankings:

Rank - Name - Minimum Net Worth - Average - Maximum Net Worth
596 Alcee L. Hastings (D-Fla) $-7,348,999 $-4,732,002 $-2,115,006
595 Tom DeLay (R-Texas) $-1,434,996 $-996,999 $-559,003
594 Bart Stupak (D-Mich) $-1,116,991 $-623,497 $-130,003
593 Timothy J. Walz (D-Minn) $-642,991 $-363,997 $-85,004
592 Louis B Gohmert, Jr (R-Texas) $-350,000 $-250,001 $-150,002
591 Artur Davis (D-Ala) $-350,000 $-240,001 $-130,003
590 Lynn A. Westmoreland (R-Ga) $-4,832,995 $-201,500 $4,429,995
589 Connie Mack (R-Fla) $-749,999 $-175,000 $399,998
588 Stephanie Herseth (D-So Dak) $-198,999 $-132,001 $-65,003
587 Robert Wexler (D-Fla) $-100,000 $-75,000 $-50,001
586 Patrick J. Murphy (D-Pa) $-147,995 $-60,499 $26,997
585 Eni FH Faleomavaega $-455,985 $-51,994 $351,996
584 Nydia M. Velazquez (D-NY) $-4,098,997 $-46,999 $4,004,998
583 John Hostettler (R-Ind) $-147,997 $-39,000 $69,996
580 Cynthia A. McKinney (D-Ga) $-50,000 $-32,500 $-15,001
580 Chris Murphy (D-Conn) $-50,000 $-32,500 $-15,001
580 Philip G. Hare (D-Ill) $-50,000 $-32,500 $-15,001
579 Bob Ney (R-Ohio) $-29,999 $-24,499 $-19,000
578 Mac Thornberry (R-Texas) $-197,997 $-16,499 $164,998
577 Mario Diaz-Balart (R-Fla) $-164,999 $-12,500 $139,999
576 Joseph R. Biden Jr. (D-Del) $-302,980 $-12,491 $277,997
575 Albert R. Wynn (D-Md) $-13,999 $-4,499 $5,000
539 J. D. Hayworth (R-Ariz) $0 $0 $0
539 Jim Kolbe (R-Ariz) $0 $0 $0
539 Juanita Millender-McDonald (D-Calif) $0 $0 $0

 

[Slurpy]

'raining on the parade'? Is this some sort of fucking happy day rainbow fairy unicorn party I should know about? No offense Slurpy but for the sake of everyone I hope PoliGAF really doesn't have this sort of short-term memory, or fear of "the other side." I certainly hope Obama isn't as scared of differing opinions.

1. We're not going to prevent negativity and criticism about a choice simply because others are happy about it. That's not "raining on a parade", that's giving voice to all sides of the debate. I have articulated my feelings in depth so that people may understand, rather than attempt to derail or troll with one-liners like that Secret guy who got banned last night.

2. Nobody is enraged that anyone else wants to be excited. I've shared in many PoliGAFers excitement for months and months and months. So despite your short term memory and your sort of sickly, pathetic annoyance at the idea of negativism, I only want what I feel is the best for this country and myself. Much like i assume you do.

3. I'd always be much shorter if I didn't have to respond to silly bullshit, like this post of yours.

1. 'Prevent negativity'? What? You've been repeating the same things ad-naseum, and you show indignation and disgust in that people are actually happy with the choice, as if you know something they don't, or they lack the special understanding of the situation that you do. The fact isn't that you share another opinion, its that you spit at people who dont share yours.

2. 'Short-term memory'? 'Sickly, pathetic annoyance? Whatever you say Amir0x. Whatever makes you feel good about yourself. Your name is in that nice red lettering, so I'll leave it at that.

3. I find the vast majority of your posts on this forum to be composed of just that, but again, I digress.

 

[APF]

Hi Amir0x how's this thread treating you?

 

[worldrunover]

That's 2005 data, and it's even worse looking at the poorest 25 of the 2006 combined congressional net worth rankings:

Rank - Name - Minimum Net Worth - Average - Maximum Net Worth
596 Alcee L. Hastings (D-Fla) $-7,348,999 $-4,732,002 $-2,115,006
595 Tom DeLay (R-Texas) $-1,434,996 $-996,999 $-559,003
594 Bart Stupak (D-Mich) $-1,116,991 $-623,497 $-130,003
593 Timothy J. Walz (D-Minn) $-642,991 $-363,997 $-85,004
592 Louis B Gohmert, Jr (R-Texas) $-350,000 $-250,001 $-150,002
591 Artur Davis (D-Ala) $-350,000 $-240,001 $-130,003
590 Lynn A. Westmoreland (R-Ga) $-4,832,995 $-201,500 $4,429,995
589 Connie Mack (R-Fla) $-749,999 $-175,000 $399,998
588 Stephanie Herseth (D-So Dak) $-198,999 $-132,001 $-65,003
587 Robert Wexler (D-Fla) $-100,000 $-75,000 $-50,001
586 Patrick J. Murphy (D-Pa) $-147,995 $-60,499 $26,997
585 Eni FH Faleomavaega $-455,985 $-51,994 $351,996
584 Nydia M. Velazquez (D-NY) $-4,098,997 $-46,999 $4,004,998
583 John Hostettler (R-Ind) $-147,997 $-39,000 $69,996
580 Cynthia A. McKinney (D-Ga) $-50,000 $-32,500 $-15,001
580 Chris Murphy (D-Conn) $-50,000 $-32,500 $-15,001
580 Philip G. Hare (D-Ill) $-50,000 $-32,500 $-15,001
579 Bob Ney (R-Ohio) $-29,999 $-24,499 $-19,000
578 Mac Thornberry (R-Texas) $-197,997 $-16,499 $164,998
577 Mario Diaz-Balart (R-Fla) $-164,999 $-12,500 $139,999
576 Joseph R. Biden Jr. (D-Del) $-302,980 $-12,491 $277,997
575 Albert R. Wynn (D-Md) $-13,999 $-4,499 $5,000
539 J. D. Hayworth (R-Ariz) $0 $0 $0
539 Jim Kolbe (R-Ariz) $0 $0 $0
539 Juanita Millender-McDonald (D-Calif) $0 $0 $0

Is it McCain's fault Cindy is wealthy? I don't think so. Plus, Biden's max net worth is still in Obama's "rich" class. He's not struggling at any rate.

 

[thefro]

http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2008/08/can-biden-out-hillary-hillary.html

Biden has the highest approval ratings for Dems among possible VP candidates of anyone besides Hillary, and the highest approval ratings among Independents.

 

[bob_arctor]

I certainly hope Obama isn't as scared of differing opinions.

Good stuff.

 

[Amir0x]

1. 'Prevent negativity'? What? You've been repeating the same things ad-naseum, and you show indignation and disgust in that people are actually happy with the choice, as if you know something they don't, or they lack the special understanding of the situation that you do.

2. 'Short-term memory'? 'Sickly, pathetic annoyance? Whatever you say Amir0x. Whatever makes you feel good about yourself. Your name is in that nice red lettering, so I'll leave it at that.

3. I find the vast majority of your posts on this forum to be composed of just that, but again, I digress.

1. No, i've said my feelings in depth TWICE, and have since responded to various inquiries from other posters regarding them. Not only is that polite, but it allows for engaged discussion between individuals. Further, nobody said I have any special understanding as someone else does. As I told mckmas8808, it's perfectly fine to believe Biden is a good choice. That's fine. My engagement with him was regarding the feeling he had that a VP choice is proven good by merit of election. It is this inability for you to distinguish the nuance in a discussion that is the problem.

2. I'm not sure how it would make me feel any better about myself to suggest it's absurd and a little unhealthy to try to quiet reasoned criticism because it's raining on a happy day parade. This suggests a lack of maturity, and that's coming from me.

3. Well you may decide to attack me, rather than the points being made. But I attacked your specific post, since it was factually silly. You cannot really believe that quieting negativity is appropriate merely because others are excited. We must allow both positions. Again, this conversation wouldn't even continue on were it not for this sort of behavior out of you.

Hi Amir0x how's this thread treating you?

It's happened before. PoliGAF has a legendary short-term memory. It doesn't matter how many times you agree with them, it's always the one time you disagree that counts.

 

[reilo]

Eh, everything that Ami has stated are legitimate concerns and some of us do share them. I'm cautiously optimistic at this point, as Ami is cautiously weary of Biden.

It essentially boils down that if you placed Biden and Hillary next to each other, they would be carbon copies of each other in the way they legislated in the senate and how they have conducted themselves throughout their campaigns. Where do you think Hillary got the "the presidency isn't meant to be on the job training" spiel?

Biden has some serious negatives that do undermine Obama, but personally I think Ami might be overvaluing them by a little. Nonetheless, the negatives of Biden he is addressing are real.

I don't think Ami is raining in on any parade just to do it.

 

[Hootie]

595 Tom DeLay (R-Texas) $-1,434,996 $-996,999 $-559,003

 

[Hitokage]

Is it McCain's fault Cindy is wealthy? I don't think so.

I think it'd be less of a deal if McCain were more aware of his status. Less "Well, gee, I lost track, but doesn't everyone have this problem?" and more "I've been extremely fortunate to have four residences and additional investments in real estate, but I know others haven't been."

 

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Biden's max net worth is still in Obama's "rich" class. He's not struggling at any rate.

yeah but he is one of the very few who don't feel the need to make ungodly amounts of money - which he can do; he's one of the most powerful men in the world.

i mean there's really no need to have more than a couple of million dollars. but these senators and other elite feel the need to make 10x more than that. and it's pretty silly. biden is above that.

that said, he has no problem paying the bills.

 

[Tamanon]

More like Tom Delay paying the bills until the paycheck clears amirite?

 

[Amir0x]

I think it'd be less of a deal if McCain were more aware of his status. Less "Well, gee, I lost track, but doesn't everyone have this problem?" and more "I've been extremely fortunate to have four residences and additional investments in real estate, but I know others haven't been."

Exactly.

It should be noted regarding the indignation at Biden's wealth comments (and Obama's attack on McCain's houses) that to me the real problem with the comment isn't that it shows McCain is much wealthier than most normal people, but that it shows he is so out of touch with even the most basic of things (like his personal income and assets).

It's not that he's wealthy that matters, it's that he's so out of touch with even his own wealth. How can he run an entire country if he is so absent minded about his own finances and assets?

The excuse "well technically it's Cindy McCain's wealth" is ineffective because if he feels that he cannot penetrate financial discussion in his own home, that is even more damning.

 

[worldrunover]

I think it'd be less of a deal if McCain were more aware of his status. Less "Well, gee, I lost track, but doesn't everyone have this problem?" and more "I've been extremely fortunate to have four residences and additional investments in real estate, but I know others haven't been."

That, or "it's not important how many houses I own, what's important is how to keep Americans in their houses." He could have diffused this thing early, I agree with you there. I'm glad it's working but it's a slightly weak argument IMO.

 

[Hootie]

More like Tom Delay paying the bills until the paycheck clears amirite?

No, probably because he's the goddamned Batman and Batman ain't payin' no bills!