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PoliGAF General Election Thread of Conventions (Sarah Palin McCain VP Pick)

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M

Mercury Fred

Banned
KingGondo said:
For all those bemoaning "the state Bush left our country in," remember one simple thing:

McCain is not Bush, as much as you'd like him to be.
Click to expand...
Incorrect.
Both are empty puppets controlled by a pathological neocon agenda.
 
T

TDG

Banned
KingGondo said:
And the DNC will be able to hang their hat on the TV ratings once November rolls around. Moral victories.
Click to expand...
That wasn't his point and you know it, let's not play stupid.
 
G

GhaleonEB

Member
polyh3dron said:
If Hillary does not directly address McCain's use of her words against Obama tonight I will be PISSED.

PISSED
Click to expand...
I think this speech will reflect large on her legacy. And it's going to be a media bonanza. She needs to pull out the stops.
 
S

ShOcKwAvE

Member
KingGondo said:
For all those bemoaning "the state Bush left our country in," remember one simple thing:

McCain is not Bush, as much as you'd like him to be.
Click to expand...

Yes, they are two separate people. Good job. Yet McCain believes that everything Bush "accomplished" was fundamentally sound. On some things, he thinks Bush didn't go far enough.

That should worry everyone.
 
S

Steve Youngblood

Member
GhaleonEB said:
On convention bounces:

I've posted this a few times, but here goes.

http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2008/08/what-convention-bounce-looks-like.html

Short version:

1) Convention bounces begin on day 3, not sooner
2) They peak 6-7 days after the convention
3) Typical bounce is six points
4) Conventions are not usually back-to-back. Don't expect Obama's to be "typical"

If we're benchmarking with Gallup, Obama started tied and now is down two. Let's wait until the weekend to see how this goes.
Click to expand...
Well, unless he gets a larger than expected bump, then I don't really know why the typical bounce is going to be interesting at all. Like it or not, Obama has been polling below expectations. Now, it's far too premature to start yelling that we need to run for the hills, or get desperate and cry for Obama to do something drastic, but it is obvious that he's got some hurdles ahead of him to win this election.

Personally, I don't think Obama has been campaigning that effectively up until this point, and thus I can understand to an extent why this is happening, even if I find it disappointing. Yes, we all thought that Americans were fed up and wanted change, and would have liked for this to be a cakewalk. But if you've ever followed any election ever, you'll understand the almost never-changing narrative that is the challenge of the newcomer taking on the incumbent. Despite the historic nature of this election, it is still just an election to elect a leader. The same rules apply. "New politics" should have been ready for this, and still might be. I'm cautiously optimistic that Obama just hasn't been campaigning 100% up until this point. Either that, or his grass-roots efforts really are changing the way the game is played, and Gallop/the media are quickly becoming less relevant than they once were. Take whichever dose of hopium you prefer.
 
B

BenjaminBirdie

Banned
You know, I was trying to think of the last time I was this fed up with the media bullshit and polling, etc. And it was when the exact same thing was happening in the race against Hillary.

I feel much better now.
 
V

VanMardigan

has calmed down a bit.
That 3 a.m. was BOTH brutally effective and fear mongering. The old man is so adept at coming back, though this time he may be peaking far too early.
 
B

bob_arctor

Tough_Smooth
Y2Kev said:
I really am not as confident as a lot of you are.
Click to expand...

heh I've gotta be. Sick of fearing the worst. Had 8 years of that already. And I still need to see Disney's Hall Of Presidents given a nice kick in the pasty balls sooner rather than later.
 
mckmas8808

mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
woeds said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-yYlzX2ZOLM

McCain new 3 A.M ad. I'm so incredibly pissed off by this. *%#&^*#*&^^& I KNEW when Hillary started spouting this shit that it would be used by McCain in the GE.

And supposedly she's not very happy about how the Obama camp is treating her and Bill right now. Really? It's your own f*cking fault for treating the Democratic Primary as the general Election.
Click to expand...


What does it say?
 
M

Mercury Fred

Banned
Y2Kev said:
I really am not as confident as a lot of you are.
Click to expand...
And you shouldn't be.

The fact is that the Republicans stole two elections in a row and Democrats continue to attempt to play by the rules. IMO everything changed after the 2000 election when we saw the shit that neocons will do to secure power. I almost wish Democrats would pose as rabid Ron Paul supporters and mob the RNC (I imagine 90% of the "PUMA"s are Repub plants).

Sigh.
 
S

scorcho

testicles on a cold fall morning
Y2Kev said:
I really am not as confident as a lot of you are.
Click to expand...
me neither, and i haven't been for weeks. i'm all for candiates raising the level of political discourse and decrying fear-mongering, but it'd be a Pyrrhic victory if the other candidate is making effective smears and dissembling. Obama needs to bring out the big guns. now.
 
K

Karma Kramer

Banned
Look I have always been the one here saying polling at this stage is pretty much irrelevant. Its irrelevant both because its not entirely that accurate and because November is still pretty damn far away.

However, there is a problem with the latest Gallup poll. The problem is that for the first time since "ever" McCain has taken a lead and he's taken that lead after Obama's extremely hyped VP pick and during a week that is all about Democrats. Sure technically the Convention should not effect polling until the third day, but the media and the mass majority of people are not going to see it this way.

The fear is, you are going to give Republicans "hope." Once Republicans think they can have this election, and they think that McCain isn't the loser they think he is... then they are going to start getting excited.

I know logic says, "how could the American people vote for McCain after Bush," and when I think of everything Obama has going for him, I always relax a bit and realize that he will most likely win this thing.

But I had this same feeling when Kerry ran back in 2004.

Its better to be pessimistic and pro-active, then say "Obama's got this fucker in the can."

I mean whats more ridiculous...? To get concerned over the fact that Obama is not performing as well as he should in the polls... or think or know that Obama will definitely win this election?

This may be my Pat Buchanan moment... but I think the kool-aid has gotten to some of you guys... and I think some of you really need to look at this election a bit more realistically.
 
T

TDG

Banned
For the record, I'm not confident at all. I've always felt that this election was going to be a republican win. Republicans are simply amazing at winning presidential elections, and I'm not going to get my hopes up for any democrat to win until it actually happens.
 
J

JoshuaJSlone

Member
mckmas8808 said:
What does it say?
Click to expand...
Clip from Hillary's old 3 AM ad.
Clip of scary foreign things.
Clip where Hillary says something like "Senator McCain brings a lifetime of experience, and Senator Obama gave a speech in 2002."
Voice: "Hillary's right."
"I'm John McCain and I approve this message."
 
P

pxleyes

Banned
TDG said:
For the record, I'm not confident at all. I've always felt that this election was going to be a republican win. Republicans are simply amazing at winning presidential elections, and I'm not going to get my hopes up for any democrat to win until it actually happens.
Click to expand...
It is as simple as negative politics. Pull out the negative ads and a democrat would win.
 
A

APF

Member
"When I was a POW" is just as good an answer as, "when I was in Vietnam." That worked very well for Kerry until the SBVT ads. Which BTW happened right after his "reporting for duty" speech at the convention.


edit: did someone just say "so much for the AP?" and another person decry the AP as run by Republican strategists? Or was that all some sarcastic back and forth I just didn't get?
 
P

polyh3dron

Banned
APF said:
"When I was a POW" is just as good an answer as, "when I was in Vietnam." That worked very well for Kerry until the SBVT ads. Which BTW happened right after his "reporting for duty" speech at the convention.
Click to expand...
Which is why the Dems need to swiftboat McCain.
 
K

Karma Kramer

Banned
Would some of you guys just look at fucking Bush... just think about the guy for a second. He got elected twice. That idiot... got elected into office twice! Its almost hilarious to think about.

And yet some of you have the audacity to believe that Barack Hussein Obama has this election in the can? And I am not highlighting his middle name to insinuate anything, but let's face it... who would have imagined 4 years ago... that a black man with this name... had any chance of winning the Presidency?

When it comes down to it though, I don't know how I am going to react if Obama loses this election. Whether to cry because we are getting 4 more years of absolute shit... or laugh at all of you for thinking this was going to be a cake walk.
 
S

Steve Youngblood

Member
pxleyes said:
It is as simple as negative politics. Pull out the negative ads and a democrat would win.
Click to expand...
Yes, they are effective. However, I'm not entirely convinced that this is the only path to victory. I believe that there is potential in raising the level of discourse. However, that is substantially more difficult.

Just looking at issues like the surge or offshore drilling. Sure, Obama has responded to them, but when 75 percent of Americans favor offshore drilling, and the message about how the surge worked and Obama was too busy playing politics to support it was dominating the discussion of Iraq, he's got a lot of work to do to dispel the myths surrounding these arguments. Pithy sound bites dismissing them as the tactics of Old Washington aren't going to cut it, even if he is right. He's got to do better than that.
 
mckmas8808

mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
BenjaminBirdie said:
You know, I was trying to think of the last time I was this fed up with the media bullshit and polling, etc. And it was when the exact same thing was happening in the race against Hillary.

I feel much better now.
Click to expand...

Thanks Benji for making me feel better man. That's exactly the last time I was this pissed at the media and polling too.

Even though Obama won by like 6% in the primary.
 
P

pxleyes

Banned
Steve Youngblood said:
Yes, they are effective. However, I'm not entirely convinced that this is the only path to victory. I believe that there is potential in raising the level of discourse. However, that is substantially more difficult.

Just looking at issues like the surge or offshore drilling. Sure, Obama has responded to them, but when 75 percent of Americans favor offshore drilling, and the message about how the surge worked and Obama was too busy playing politics to support it was dominating the discussion of Iraq, he's got a lot of work to do to dispel the myths surrounding these arguments. Pithy sound bites dismissing them as the tactics of Old Washington aren't going to cut it, even if he is right. He's got to do better than that.
Click to expand...
I'm sorry, but all of that can be brought out for Obama's re-election campaign. This one needs to get dirty fast if Obama is going to fend off all the negative ads.
 
J

Jason's Ultimatum

Member
Thanks for nothing, GAF. I even called up my local voting office and the woman didn't even know. She had to put me on hold to find out. Anyway, it's minor party. :lol
 
B

bob_arctor

Tough_Smooth
APF said:
edit: did someone just say "so much for the AP?" and another person decry the AP as run by Republican strategists? Or was that all some sarcastic back and forth I just didn't get?
Click to expand...

Guess it's a reference to the one guy that I've heard about that used to work for McCain or for the GOP who is like head-AP-guy or something now.
 
S

Steve Youngblood

Member
pxleyes said:
I'm sorry, but all of that can be brought out for Obama's re-election campaign. This one needs to get dirty fast if Obama is going to fend off all the negative ads.
Click to expand...
I don't necessarily disagree with you. I won't fault Obama at all if he fights fire with fire. However, I also think it's just a tad disingenuous to argue that clearly change politics aren't going to work here. I just think that he hasn't wielded it effectively enough for a general election campaign thus far.
 
F

Fatalah

Member
Steve Youngblood said:
I don't necessarily disagree with you. I won't fault Obama at all if he fights fire with fire. However, I also think it's just a tad disingenuous to argue that clearly change politics aren't going to work here. I just think that he hasn't wielded it effectively enough for a general election campaign thus far.
Click to expand...

get-attachmentaspx.gif
 
S

siamesedreamer

Banned
Bill Clinton appeared to undermine Sen. Barack Obama again Tuesday.
The former president, speaking in Denver, posed a hypothetical question in which he seemed to suggest that that the Democratic Party was making a mistake in choosing Obama as its presidential nominee.

He said: "Suppose you're a voter, and you've got candidate X and candidate Y. Candidate X agrees with you on everything, but you don't think that candidate can deliver on anything at all. Candidate Y you agree with on about half the issues, but he can deliver. Which candidate are you going to vote for?"

Then, perhaps mindful of how his off-the-cuff remarks might be taken, Clinton added after a pause: "This has nothing to do with what's going on now."
Click to expand...

LINK

Source pass the PolitiGAF sniff test?
 
P

polyh3dron

Banned
APF said:
edit: did someone just say "so much for the AP?" and another person decry the AP as run by Republican strategists? Or was that all some sarcastic back and forth I just didn't get?
Click to expand...
The head guy of the AP is a former strategist for McCain AKA TEH BIAS!!1
 
B

Barrett2

Member
Mercury Fred said:
IMO everything changed after the 2000 election when we saw the shit that neocons will do to secure power. I almost wish Democrats would pose as rabid Ron Paul supporters and mob the RNC (I imagine 90% of the "PUMA"s are Repub plants).
Click to expand...


Sadly, I basically agree with this. I used to be upset that the Democrats would get trounced by the Republicans' dirty tactics, and resented Republicans for it.

As I get older, I mostly just resent the Democrats for being ineffectual wusses who can't seem to effectively play dirty like the Republicans can.
 
C

CharlieDigital

Banned
siamesedreamer said:
LINK

Source pass the PolitiGAF sniff test?
Click to expand...

Could mean anything. Candidate "X" might be a reference to McCain if this question is directed at independents/centrist Republicans.

Let's rephrase it:

"Suppose you're a voter, and you've got McCain and Obama. McCain agrees with you on everything, but you don't think that candidate can deliver on anything at all. Obama you agree with on about half the issues, but he can deliver. Which candidate are you going to vote for?"

Depends on the context of who is being addressed by "you".
 
B

Bajan32

Member
OK, so i've been following every single one of the PoliGAF threads religiously for months on end, but I've never posted in any of them...

I'm posting now because I'm at the point where the pure stupidity of Americans(no offfence to you guys) is starting to scare me. I just can't fathom why after 8 years of the shit we just went through why McCain is still even an option for this country.

Granted I only became a citizen about 2 years ago, but ive lived 1/2 my life in the states.
This is the 1st time i'll be voting, and i never thought I'd be voting for a black man ever, not in this country(i'm black btw, just the way things are made that thought unfathomable to me a couple years ago). In some ways im very surprised by the fact that Barack made it as far as the Dem nominee.

I threatened to pack up and GTFO of America if Bush won a 2nd term, I'm still here <.<
But god damn i dont think i could sit by and watch the repubs steal a 3rd.
WTF is wrong w/ this country.

Im constantly watching the news and by god its just unbearable, babbling heads left right and center and no one talking about the real issues we need to discuss. All im hearing is:

Obama -do we really know him, when will we really know him...his wife is angry, what are his policies blah blah blah...

MaCain -POW POW POW,

I understand why the media is doing what they are doing, corporate sponsors and all, but at what point as a nation will people demand truth and policy coverage instead of all the trivial bullshit.

The rest of the world is looking on, every other f'n country in the world knows what we have/need to do, but here we are as a country totally stumbling....again.

It makes no diff to any of you guys, but seriously I think i will need to leave and revoke my citizenship if the repubs take it again. As a country we cant be this fucking stupid... we just can't.

My money doesnt go nearly as far as it used to, we are making no real strides to any form of energy independence, we love blowing shit up and starting wars, treat the vets like shit,
purposefully dumb down the kids, the state of healthcare sucks.....etc etc....

......sorry for my rant, but this is what happens when i cant wrap my head around something(in this case, the stupidity of americans ::again no offense to you guys::)
 
L

laserbeam

Banned
siamesedreamer said:
LINK

Source pass the PolitiGAF sniff test?
Click to expand...

See everyone tries to downplay Clinton's anger. The guy is seriously Nuclear atm. Obama saying Clinton can speak on whatever he wants is full of shit. There is no unscripted moments in this Convention. They would not risk Clinton going off on the whole process.

CharlieDigital said:
Could mean anything. Candidate "X" might be a reference to McCain if this question is directed at independents/centrist Republicans.

Let's rephrase it:

"Suppose you're a voter, and you've got McCain and Obama. McCain agrees with you on everything, but you don't think that candidate can deliver on anything at all. Obama you agree with on about half the issues, but he can deliver. Which candidate are you going to vote for?"

Depends on the context of who is being addressed by "you".
Click to expand...

When he is speaking to a Democrat Rally its obvious he is playing the screw barack hand.
 
T

Tamanon

Banned
The PUMAs are just getting airtime because the media loves a good squabble. There were SIXTY of them at Denver. Not thousands, not millions, SIXTY. There were more Code Pink protestors.

laserbeam: That makes no sense, it's not like while he's up there Clinton would be required to read what's on the teleprompter, there's no possible way to ensure he doesn't do something. Obama's camp isn't even seeing what the speech is beforehand.
 
J

Jason's Ultimatum

Member
Tamanon said:
The PUMAs are just getting airtime because the media loves a good squabble. There were SIXTY of them at Denver. Not thousands, not millions, SIXTY. There were more Code Pink protestors.

laserbeam: That makes no sense, it's not like while he's up there Clinton would be required to read what's on the teleprompter, there's no possible way to ensure he doesn't do something. Obama's camp isn't even seeing what the speech is beforehand.
Click to expand...

I saw them on Hardball protesting yesterday. Good god were they annoying!
 
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