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PoliGAF General Election Thread of Conventions (Sarah Palin McCain VP Pick)

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laserbeam

Banned
Tamanon said:
The PUMAs are just getting airtime because the media loves a good squabble. There were SIXTY of them at Denver. Not thousands, not millions, SIXTY. There were more Code Pink protestors.

laserbeam: That makes no sense, it's not like while he's up there Clinton would be required to read what's on the teleprompter, there's no possible way to ensure he doesn't do something. Obama's camp isn't even seeing what the speech is beforehand.

Your right they cant keep him on message but the whole convention committee sure as hell has what he is supposed to say so they can crucify his ass to a cross if he goes off the speech and starts attacking the party saying this is what he was supposed to say.

Barack may not know exactly what Clinton will say but there are pewople who know every last word of what he is supposed to say.
 

Barrett2

Member
Bajan32 said:
OK, so i've been following every single one of the PoliGAF threads religiously for months on end, but I've never posted in any of them...

I'm posting now because I'm at the point where the pure stupidity of Americans(no offfence to you guys) is starting to scare me. I just can't fathom why after 8 years of the shit we just went through why McCain is still even an option for this country.

Granted I only became a citizen about 2 years ago, but ive lived 1/2 my life in the states.
This is the 1st time i'll be voting, and i never thought I'd be voting for a black man ever, not in this country(i'm black btw, just the way things are made that thought unfathomable to me a couple years ago). In some ways im very surprised by the fact that Barack made it as far as the Dem nominee.

I threatened to pack up and GTFO of America if Bush won a 2nd term, I'm still here <.<
But god damn i dont think i could sit by and watch the repubs steal a 3rd.
WTF is wrong w/ this country.

............
......sorry for my rant, but this is what happens when i cant wrap my head around something(in this case, the stupidity of americans ::again no offense to you guys::)


As someone who grew up in Texas, lived in California for 2 years, Utah for 5 years, New York for 2 years, I have gained a lot of perspective in terms of living with a wide variety of people in this country.

In my opinion, the reason there are still so many Republicans after the last 8 years willing to vote for McCain basically comes down to an information gap. People are basically uninformed; many Republicans think of the Republican party as it once existed, not as it currently is.

Honestly, when you speak with a lot of Republicans about government & politics, they seem to be genuinely unaware of the way their party has changed; they simply don't want to accept that the party does not actually live by the standards it once held.

Thats not to say the Democratic party is full of well-informed geniuses; but I do think that compared to Bush & the Republican Congress of the late 90s - 2006, the current Democrats are clearly headed in a more honest & genuine direction.
 

Tamanon

Banned
BTW, for the one or two people kvetching about "Change we can believe in", the slogan has apparently changed to "The Change we need"
 

reilo

learning some important life lessons from magical Negroes
Bill Clinton is too smart and he cares too much about his own legacy to backstab the DNC like that.

Many people blame him for getting his dick sucked in the oval office as to why the conservative base was out in such huge numbers and voted for Bush in lock-step.

If he has any pride and love for this country, he will play the good part. Otherwise his legacy will be handing the republicans two neocon presidents in a row.
 
Joe Biden: No True Friend of Working Men and Women

Posted August 23, 2008 | 02:21 AM (EST)

Last August, the Democrats held a presidential debate in Chicago. Seven Democrats participated, with former sportscaster Keith Olbermann moderating the televised event on MSNBC. It was sponsored by the AFL-CIO and took place before 15,000 union activists at Soldier Field.

You'd think the candidates at a Democratic debate dealing with issues relevant to working men and women would be asked about the infamous bankruptcy bill signed two years earlier by President George W. Bush. Oddly, you'd be wrong. Olbermann never mentioned it.

This wasn't the first time Congress had passed this shameful act. Bill Clinton vetoed it twice in the 90's, so we know where he stands. The credit industry, ever relentless, kept coming back, confidant they had the number of elected officials necessary to do their bidding. They did, and Joe Biden was always one of them.

The final version of the bill was cleverly titled the "Bankruptcy Abuse Prevention and Consumer Protection Act of 2005," but it wasn't aimed at preventing abuse or protecting consumers, and everyone knew it.

Arianna Huffington wrote on salon.com in March 2005 that this legislation was "so hostile to ordinary American families that it could only have come about in a place as corrupt, cynical and unmoored from reality as Washington, D.C." She concluded: "The bankruptcy bill is morally bankrupt. And so is any senator who votes for it." She defined the problem:

"So what does the bill do? It makes it harder for average people to file for bankruptcy protection; it makes it easier for landlords to evict a bankrupt tenant; it endangers child-support payments by giving a wider array of creditors a shot at post-bankruptcy income; it allows millionaires to shield an unlimited amount of equity in homes and asset-protection trusts; it makes it more difficult for small businesses to reorganize while opening new loopholes for the Enrons of the world; it allows creditors to provide misleading information; and it does nothing to rein in lending abuses...."

It turns out the average annual income of Americans who file bankruptcy is less than $30K, not the loose affiliation of millionaires and billionaires gigging the system that we all heard about when this bill was debated. Also, the vast majority of people who file bankruptcy don't do so to strategically hang on to their mansion on the hill, but because of medical bills, a job layoff, or both. Real people, real lives.

I've never filed bankruptcy, but like Bill Clinton I'm moved by those demographics. Not so our Joe. Of all the presidential contenders lined up on the stage in Chicago, he was the only one who had voted for the bill. Not senators Dodd, Clinton and Obama (Edwards was no longer in the senate in '05), and not House member Dennis Kucinich. Only Joe Biden.

And he didn't just vote for it, he helped carry the water on it. Some Democrats tried to soften the bill with a series of amendments; for example, exempting military personnel at war in Iraq. Biden joined the majority of his colleagues -- all the Republicans and too many Democrats -- in knocking down every possible change that was offered.

For the record, Biden's home state famously holds the incorporation papers of large credit card and financial services companies. He obviously knows how his bread is buttered in Delaware, which means a "profile in courage" by 'ol Joe on the bankruptcy bill was out of the question.

Sure, Biden has a certain rogue charisma combined with what he's developed over the years as serious experience on the senate foreign relations committee. He's no idiot. But if part of the calculation in picking him is that he'll help sell economic populism in the heartland, from Perkiomen to Peoria, that's a cynical joke whether it succeeds or not.

(By the way, this is an issue Republicans probably won't hit Biden on because they're as much in the same industry's pocket as he is, and McCain always loved the bankruptcy bill, too.)

Still, anyone who cares about progressive politics, or the salt of the earth, knows that the bankruptcy bill is a disaster for average folks. Joe Biden is a big reason why this is so. He supported it and voted for it, many times over many years.

That speaks volumes about how he views the rest of the country.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jackson-williams/joe-biden-true-friend-of_b_120776.html
 

Odrion

Banned
reilo said:
Bill Clinton is too smart and he cares too much about his own legacy to backstab the DNC like that.

Many people blame him for getting his dick sucked in the oval office as to why the conservative base was out in such huge numbers and voted for Bush in lock-step.

If he has any pride and love for this country, he will play the good part. Otherwise his legacy will be handing the republicans two neocon presidents in a row.
smart enough to not to anything like asking hypothetical that undercut the Democratic Nomination in denver

wait
 

Odrion

Banned
Hillary could still even give a rousing speech asking to unite the party and the media will say that it seemed forced and she didn't want to, while talking about Bill Clinton's recent actions.
 

reilo

learning some important life lessons from magical Negroes
painey said:
has Michelle Obama had alot of plastic surgery? She has a very strange face, very constructed-looking..

Get the fuck out with that shit.
 

Azrael

Member
bob_arctor said:
Sounds...not so good.

That's nothing. Fournier actually wrote to Karl Rove, regarding Pat Tillman, "The Lord creates men and women like this all over the world. But only the great and free countries allow them to flourish. Keep up the fight."

Sounds like the AP's Washington Bureau is controlled by an evangelical nutcase to me.
 

Keylime

ÏÎ¯Î»Ï á¼Î¾ÎµÏÎγλοÏÏον καί ÏεÏδολÏγον οá½Îº εἰÏÏν
Tamanon said:
BTW, for the one or two people kvetching about "Change we can believe in", the slogan has apparently changed to "The Change we need"
New republican slogan: Keep "The Change" You Filthy Animal.
 

laserbeam

Banned
reilo said:
Bill Clinton is too smart and he cares too much about his own legacy to backstab the DNC like that.

Many people blame him for getting his dick sucked in the oval office as to why the conservative base was out in such huge numbers and voted for Bush in lock-step.

If he has any pride and love for this country, he will play the good part. Otherwise his legacy will be handing the republicans two neocon presidents in a row.

Bill's anger is the fact he feels the DNC and Obama already shit all over his legacy and he feels wronged.

Theres no doubt about his comments today in fact theres a very good chance youll see he is no longer welcome on the campaign trail. I think Bill has already burned out his welcome
 
The only thing that concerns me is that the Democratic campaign is not responding and attacking harsh enough. Joe Biden, in the Springfield speech, did a great job of taking the 'ol "four more years of the same" attack and making it have an emotional punch. Obama has to appeal more than to just the intellect of the American people, but also to their emotions.

But the Clintons fucked up. Big time.
 

Macam

Banned
Jason's Ultimatum said:
Thanks for nothing, GAF. I even called up my local voting office and the woman didn't even know. She had to put me on hold to find out. Anyway, it's minor party. :lol

I was going to try and answer your question, but Texas voter registration, at least here in Austin, doesn't have any such field. Voter registration is county based, so it's probably best that you called in any case.
 

Tamanon

Banned
laserbeam said:
Bill's anger is the fact he feels the DNC and Obama already shit all over his legacy and he feels wronged.

Theres no doubt about his comments today in fact theres a very good chance youll see he is no longer welcome on the campaign trail.

Bill's problem is that he doesn't realize that there's no way to have your wife run for President WITHOUT people shitting over your legacy. Her running did it, because it meant that anybody else who wanted to be President had to differentiate themselves from his years, when she ties herself to everything he accomplished.
 

Barrett2

Member
kame-sennin said:

I hate to rain on your article, but it is mostly a bunch of uninformed nonsense.

I am a soon-to-be bankruptcy attorney. I currently work at the Dept. of Justice doing nothing all day but work on individual bankruptcy petitions & cases.

The bankruptcy law really isn't that bad. Out of all the individual bankruptcy cases I have seen, only a tiny % of them were instances where I thought some poor sap was legitimately getting unfairly screwed.
 

reilo

learning some important life lessons from magical Negroes
lawblob said:
I hate to rain on your article, but it is mostly a bunch of uninformed nonsense.

I am a soon-to-be bankruptcy attorney. I currently work at the Dept. of Justice doing nothing all day but work on individual bankruptcy petitions & cases.

The bankruptcy law really isn't that bad. Out of all the individual bankruptcy cases I have seen, only a tiny % of them were instances where I thought some poor sap was legitimately getting unfairly screwed.

Get the fuck out with your facts, credentials and actually dealing with real life cases like that!
 

laserbeam

Banned
Was just mentioned on Cable news that Bill also apparently went on the attack about Obama again with Foreign Diplomats saying he is inexperienced and horrible choice.
 

APF

Member
Dax01 said:
Bill is really being a sore loser.
I think he's likely genuine in suggesting he didn't mean to imply anything about Obama personally from that decontextualized quote. I think the core of what he is saying is a valid point however, and part of why some would pick Hillary over Obama. I disagree though, with the assumption on the part of angry Obama fans here, that it's meant as an intentional jab and not just a genuine opinion he quickly realized would be interpreted as such.
 

Barrett2

Member
reilo said:
Get the fuck out with your facts, credentials and actually dealing with real life cases like that!

:lol Seriously.

Yeah, I don't know why some democrats think the Federal bankruptcy laws are good targets to go after. There are so many other things out there that hurt people more than the bankruptcy laws; IMO they are a very low priority in terms of things which should be changed.

Plus, as a practical matter, you really start to have less sympathy for people when you look at your 5,000th bankruptcy petition of someone who makes $50,000 per year and has 3 Best Buy credit cards, 2 brand new cars, a home mortgage payment 2x the average for their locality, etc.

If anything, I am amazed at how lenient the government is at not going after people who probably shouldn't be allowed to do ch.7 bankruptcies.
 

Clevinger

Member
laserbeam said:
Your right they cant keep him on message but the whole convention committee sure as hell has what he is supposed to say so they can crucify his ass to a cross if he goes off the speech and starts attacking the party saying this is what he was supposed to say.

How? What can they do to Clinton?
 
laserbeam said:
Was just mentioned on Cable news that Bill also apparently went on the attack about Obama again with Foreign Diplomats saying he is inexperienced and horrible choice.

If people though Hillary was divisive, Bill Clinton is a nightmare. I hope Obama does win in the fall and all these DLC hacks get tossed aside. Even Clinton's 'former' surrogates are trying to undermine Obama and the efforts at the convention and then turn around and complain that Obama isn't doing better. I'm disgusted with the lot of them.
 

mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
CharlieDigital said:
Could mean anything. Candidate "X" might be a reference to McCain if this question is directed at independents/centrist Republicans.

Let's rephrase it:

"Suppose you're a voter, and you've got McCain and Obama. McCain agrees with you on everything, but you don't think that candidate can deliver on anything at all. Obama you agree with on about half the issues, but he can deliver. Which candidate are you going to vote for?"

Depends on the context of who is being addressed by "you".

The problem is he didn't explain who X was and who Y was.

And every damn person knows in his example X = Obama and Y = McCain.

He is basically saying to Hillary supporters that its okay to vote for McCain even though you don't agree with 90% of his policies.

Bill and Hillary can PISS OFF!
 
Bajan32 said:
OK, so i've been following every single one of the PoliGAF threads religiously for months on end, but I've never posted in any of them...

I'm posting now because I'm at the point where the pure stupidity of Americans(no offfence to you guys) is starting to scare me. I just can't fathom why after 8 years of the shit we just went through why McCain is still even an option for this country.

Granted I only became a citizen about 2 years ago, but ive lived 1/2 my life in the states.
This is the 1st time i'll be voting, and i never thought I'd be voting for a black man ever, not in this country(i'm black btw, just the way things are made that thought unfathomable to me a couple years ago). In some ways im very surprised by the fact that Barack made it as far as the Dem nominee.
<snip>

i hear you. it's pretty confounding that any republican is up for grabs this year. but i think it has to do with american culture at large. we're taught to sort of filter out the bad things. it's like the picture orwell painted with 1984, yet it's more subtle than that. there's fascism, but it's not omnipresent.

so yeah it's sad that half of americans are, uh, on a different page, to put it nicely. but we have an electoral college that decides things for us. and despite the fact they reelected bush, they'll make sure our next president is not john mccain.
 

~Devil Trigger~

In favor of setting Muslim women on fire
APF said:
I think he's likely genuine in suggesting he didn't mean to imply anything about Obama personally from that decontextualized quote. I think the core of what he is saying is a valid point however, and part of why some would pick Hillary over Obama. I disagree though, with the assumption on the part of angry Obama fans here, that it's meant as an intentional jab and not just a genuine opinion he quickly realized would be interpreted as such.

but this is irrelevant now since more people picked Obama over Hilary. He has never uttered a strong statement supporting Obama, everything he says about him is so open and suspect. You cant possibly believe Bill is not still mad about the primary.

the point is the Donkeys need to beat the Elephants, and none of Bill's statements are helping that cause.
 
Tyrone Slothrop said:
so yeah it's sad that half of americans are, uh, on a different page, to put it nicely. but luckily we have an electoral college that decides things for us. and despite the fact they reelected bush, they'll make sure our next president is not john mccain.
I don't follow your argument. The electoral college isn't wholly independent from the popular vote. It isn't a completely separate entity that votes for whoever it wants to.
 

Tamanon

Banned
Steve Youngblood said:
I don't follow your argument. The electoral college isn't wholly independent from the popular vote. It isn't a completely separate entity that votes for whoever it wants to.

I think his point is that the national popular vote has little to do with the electoral vote.
 

VanMardigan

has calmed down a bit.
painey said:
has Michelle Obama had alot of plastic surgery? She has a very strange face, very constructed-looking..

Barracuda jaw. No surgery, you can tell she has that in her childhood pics. She looked really good last night, though.
 
Tamanon said:
I think his point is that the national popular vote has little to do with the electoral vote.
I don't know if it's fair to say that it has little to do with the electoral vote. Sure, there are examples of a candidate winning the popular vote but losing the electoral vote (2000 is fresh in our minds, for instance), but that is rare.
 
lawblob said:
As someone who grew up in Texas, lived in California for 2 years, Utah for 5 years, New York for 2 years, I have gained a lot of perspective in terms of living with a wide variety of people in this country.

In my opinion, the reason there are still so many Republicans after the last 8 years willing to vote for McCain basically comes down to an information gap. People are basically uninformed; many Republicans think of the Republican party as it once existed, not as it currently is.

Honestly, when you speak with a lot of Republicans about government & politics, they seem to be genuinely unaware of the way their party has changed; they simply don't want to accept that the party does not actually live by the standards it once held.
With that background, I would think you might have a good insight as to what the deal is. Because I'm kinda stumped as well. Bush has around a 30% approval rating . . . but McCain seems to be gathering nearly 50% of the votes. Why? I understand the 30% true-believers sticking with the GOP. But what is with that other 20%? How can they disapprove of Bush yet still support McCain? If it was all 'information gap', then they'd still approve of Bush.

My theories often go to random single-issue voters on hot-button issues. I.e., there are some people that don't like Bush but couldn't conceive voting for Obama because he is not anti-abortion or he isn't the NRA's favorite guy. Basically, these people are willing to sacrifice everything else due their pet issue.
 

Tamanon

Banned
Nah, it's doctrinaire voting. A lot of people see Bush as someone who was really bad at implementing policies, but still agree with those policies. Also, we're a REALLY partisan society, so making the switch is really tough to do for many people.
 

APF

Member
~Devil Trigger~ said:
but this is irrelevant now since more people picked Obama over Hilary.
The point is, he's giving a genuine personal opinion that he only later realized would be interpreted as a jab against Obama. It had nothing to do with Obama per se.
 

Lemonz

Member
Odrion said:
16lcync.jpg
 
speculawyer said:
With that background, I would think you might have a good insight as to what the deal is. Because I'm kinda stumped as well. Bush has around a 30% approval rating . . . but McCain seems to be gathering nearly 50% of the votes. Why? I understand the 30% true-believers sticking with the GOP. But what is with that other 20%? How can they disapprove of Bush yet still support McCain? If it was all 'information gap', then they'd still approve of Bush.

My theories often go to random single-issue voters on hot-button issues. I.e., there are some people that don't like Bush but couldn't conceive voting for Obama because he is not anti-abortion or he isn't the NRA's favorite guy. Basically, these people are willing to sacrifice everything else due their pet issue.
Well, you have to keep in mind that not being a fan of Bush doesn't necessarily mean that you're going to switch sides and be Democratic. It's entirely conceivable that just because you've become disenfranchised with your team, that doesn't mean that you're automatically going to start cheering for the other guys. They're still the other guys even though your guy sucks.
 
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