Support NeoGAF

[Mudkips]

If you don't or can't update the firmware in a Blu-Ray player, you can still watch every movie that releases.

Rizza-rizza-rong.
If a player is found to have been exploited, it's keys are revoked.
Newer discs will be pressed with keys that the player can't handle.

You're then forced to update the firmware on the player in order to play newer discs. The update can be included on the disc itself.

So far, just about every crack has been done against PowerDVD (because it's so easy).
So no actual hardware players have had their keys revoked yet (that I know of). PowerDVD will routinely refuse to play new BluRays until you update it because it gets hacked all the fucking time.

All BD players are supposed to be firmware-upgradeable. If they're a major brand, they'll get their updates shoehorned into major BD releases. Most allow updating over ethernet or from a USB drive. Some you have to burn an iso from the manufacturer's site and feed the disc into the machine.

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

In a way, the pirate community would use the Other OS feature to find that exploit and then when they discover it, they spread it like a virus.
Sony is probably removing it as a precaution since the Wii and the 360 has been hacked.

*Sony watches Wii and 360 get hacked*
*Sony sits a year*
*Sony sits a year*
*Sony sits a year*
Sony: OH SHIT!
*Sony removes Other OS as a precaution*

 

[coopolon]

Well, I guess I just won't update until I hit a BluRay movie that I can't play, which might be never. Then I'll reevaluate how important OtherOS is to me (I use it regularly, but it's not the end of the world if I lose it.)

I know Sony doesn't care, but for awhile I was buying all my multiplatform console exclusive games on the PS3 because it was more reliable hardware. Now I'll go back to buying them on the 360 so that I can keep my OtherOS for as long as possible.

I could care less about PSN, and while Sony games tend to be alright, there's more then enough good games out there that I can live without UC3 or GOW4 (which are the only Sony exclusives I see coming in the next couple years that I even care about.)

 

[lupinko]

Actually the PS3 does need firmware updates for newer BD releases, for my folks' PS3 which I never usually update (since I mainly use that for watching movies), I had to update its firmware since Ghostbusters BD (the movie, not the game), required a later fw update.

 

[Somnid]

Not true. If you don't or can't update the firmware in a Blu-Ray player, you can still watch every movie that releases. If you don't update the firmware in your PS3, new games won't run.

And your GAF analogy falls flat on its face immediately, because you didn't pay $600 (I hope) to post here.

Every 360, Wii, PSP, and PC DD client works the same way. You don't update, you don't play new games. There's nothing that says Sony can't release games incompatible with old software. And such arguements that they do will never hold up because it would mean that every hardware would need to be compatible will all future software or somebody can file a lawsuit.

Maybe you're just caught up in branding that a PS3 plays all "PS3" games. Software is software, at best you could get them to call them PS3 3.21 games which PS3 never said it was compatible with.

My GAF analogy does stand, you didn't pay anything to access PSN which is a service apart from PS3 hardware that they provide but are not required to by any law. Even if you did pay for it they can still terminate it just like Microsoft does if you cheat, pirate, harass, and send naked pictures of yourself. If you want network service you must agree to the TOS. They aren't trying to be subversive and tricking you out of it (which would be the best legal argument you could make about it), the whole point of this is to give people a heads up that they will be taking away OtherOS and you can bow out if you don't like it.

 

[pancakesandsex]

nevermind.

 

[coopolon]

Wait, will this affect Netflix if you don't update? That would be a problem for my not-updating plan.

 

[andycapps]

Wait, will this affect Netflix if you don't update? That would be a problem for my not-updating plan.

I believe it reads that disc as a BD-live type title.. You may be okay though as long since those features are already available prior to this update going live. Have to wait and see, I guess.

 

[corrosivefrost]

I'm fine with Linux being removed. Will be another moot point 3 months later just like when Sony removed the card readers, usb slots, and bc.

And yet, it seems that there are a bunch of PS3 owners still hope and dream that Sony will someday add PS2 emulation via firmware update restoring backwards compatibility.

 

[ReyBrujo]

*Sony watches Wii and 360 get hacked*
*Sony sits a year*
*Sony sits a year*
*Sony sits a year*
Sony: OH SHIT!
*Sony removes Other OS as a precaution*

Oh, I like this. Can I try?

*Sony watches Wii success*
*Sony sits a year*
*Sony sits a year*
*Sony sits a year*
Sony: OH SHIT!
*Sony launches Sony Move as countermeasure*

Sorry, had to joke some. I know I bitch a lot when a software maker removes a feature from an application I use, even if I have never used it. You don't know what you have until you have lost it, it is said.

 

[cRIPticon]

Given that only 2% of all PS3 users use PS3Linux, you might be able to calculate how
many people in numbers actually use it if we consider that about 30 millions phat PS3s
were sold.

It's pretty clear that the waste majority doesn't use PS3Linux, obviously, but this doesn't
say that those who do are not worth to be considered.

Fine, 600,000 of you, if there were 30mil phats out there, which there are not. The user base is 2%. It is not worth considering when there is a possibility that >2% of the user base could be harmed by a future exploit that could be stopped now.

Close that Linux stuff down Sony! For the 2% of you that will be so put out, perhaps an internet petition or letter writing campaign? I mean seriously. It's not like you have access to the RSX or multicore, so what's the point?

 

[lupinko]

I mean seriously. It's not like you have access to the RSX or multicore, so what's the point?

Stuff was taken away that was already there and so forth.

 

[Razor210]

I have never used the OtherOS feature, but here goes:

Should the overwhelming majority of people have to deal with potential damage done to the PSN because of a feature which, as gofreak explained earlier, Sony has limited control over?

While it is regrettable for those who enjoy Linux on their PS3, I hate to say this, but it's for the greater good. Sony probably sees a way to alter the PS3 in a way they wouldn't like through the OtherOS feature.

 

[Riskbreaker23]

news must be really slow today.

this is either the saddest or funniest thread i have seen in a long time.

on one hand, some people that have acutally used linux on ps3 say it is slow and gimped but others a making seem like the greatest thing ever.

since launch, i dont think i have ever seen a thread about ps3 linux and now we have a 20+ page about it :lol

another thing i found funny was that i saw someone comment that sony is punishing the majority of us for the action of a few when in reality less 1% of ps3 owners actually use linux on ps3.

i can think of a lot better and cheaper ways to experience linux than on a ps3.

in principle, i think is wrong to remove features that some people might use but I would rather save my anger for if they try to remove something that actually matters.

until then i will continue to enjoy my games, blu rays, and the other things the have added since launch.

 

[cRIPticon]

Stuff was taken away that was already there and so forth.

OH WELL?!?! Seriously...

What about a "firmware update" that removes the GameOS, i.e. the Hypervisor and its logical
partitions, making the PS3 an entirely free system for those who are just interested in the
hardware? I would pay $500 for such a system.

:lol Why on earth would Sony ever do that? One rip of the dev environment and their entire system is compromised. Perhaps someone should start an online petition?

I have never used the OtherOS feature, but here goes:

Should the overwhelming majority of people have to deal with potential damage done to the PSN because of a feature which, as gofreak explained earlier, Sony has limited control over?

While it is regrettable for those who enjoy Linux on their PS3, I hate to say this, but it's for the greater good. Sony probably sees a way to alter the PS3 in a way they wouldn't like through the OtherOS feature.

EXACTLY. Thank you

 

[missile]

I sense Sony will wipe PS2Linux as well.

Spoiler

"Security concerns. Sorry, guys! Bad luck!"

 

[EmCeeGramr]

Fine, 600,000 of you, if there were 30mil phats out there, which there are not. The user base is 2%. It is not worth considering when there is a possibility that >2% of the user base could be harmed by a future exploit that could be stopped now.

Close that Linux stuff down Sony! For the 2% of you that will be so put out, perhaps an internet petition or letter writing campaign? I mean seriously. It's not like you have access to the RSX or multicore, so what's the point?

oh yes it was such a huge harmful exploit as seen by

and

and don't forget



yeah, those things

 

[The Faceless Master]

Yeah they're free to sell their PS3 in exchange for the other console that ever attempted opensource OS for free.

owait

your reply makes no sense.

 

[lupinko]

OH WELL?!?! Seriously...

I don't care for it, but that is one of the reasons for backlash.

 

[coopolon]

news must be really slow today.

this is either the saddest or funniest thread i have seen in a long time.

on one hand, some people that have acutally used linux on ps3 say it is slow and gimped but others a making seem like the greatest thing ever.

since launch, i dont think i have ever seen a thread about ps3 linux and now we have a 20+ page about it :lol

another thing i found funny was that i saw someone comment that sony is punishing the majority of us for the action of a few when in reality less 1% of ps3 owners actually use linux on ps3.

i can think of a lot better and cheaper ways to experience linux than on a ps3.

in principle, i think is wrong to remove features that some people might use but I would rather save my anger for if they try to remove something that actually matters.

until then i will continue to enjoy my games, blu rays, and the other things the have added since launch.

Your post really confused me, because you made an identical post 3 hours ago, and it put me into some kind of weird deja vu alternate dimension.

 

[cRIPticon]

oh yes it was such a huge harmful exploit as seen by

and

and don't forget



yeah, those things

Future exploit? Not a current one, but if there is a possibility that an exploit can be achieved through a feature that a minute fraction of the total install base utilizes, why wouldn't they shut it down? It would be irresponsible of them to not take action.

 

[lupinko]

Your post really confused me, because you made an identical post 3 hours ago, and it put me into some kind of weird deja vu alternate dimension.

2PACALYPS3!!!

 

[EmCeeGramr]

Future exploit? Not a current one, but if there is a possibility that an exploit can be achieved through a feature that a minute fraction of the total install base utilizes, why wouldn't they shut it down? It would be irresponsible of them to not take action.

It'd be years from now before that happened, and the possibility of "damage" to the rest of the userbase is minute. In exchange, they're taking away a feature from the userbase.

Not justified in the least.

 

[Air Zombie Meat]

news must be really slow today.

this is either the saddest or funniest thread i have seen in a long time.

on one hand, some people that have acutally used linux on ps3 say it is slow and gimped but others a making seem like the greatest thing ever.

since launch, i dont think i have ever seen a thread about ps3 linux and now we have a 20+ page about it :lol

another thing i found funny was that i saw someone comment that sony is punishing the majority of us for the action of a few when in reality less 1% of ps3 owners actually use linux on ps3.

i can think of a lot better and cheaper ways to experience linux than on a ps3.

in principle, i think is wrong to remove features that some people might use but I would rather save my anger for if they try to remove something that actually matters.

until then i will continue to enjoy my games, blu rays, and the other things the have added since launch.

You know why this thread is so big? Because of posts like your's. Apparently people who don't care love telling everyone just how much they don't care about it. What else don't you care about? It's really fascinating to read!

Your post really confused me, because you made an identical post 3 hours ago, and it put me into some kind of weird deja vu alternate dimension.

Oh wow, enough said.

 

[Man]

It'd be years from now before that happened, and the possibility of "damage" to the rest of the userbase is minute. In exchange, they're taking away a feature from the userbase.

Not justified in the least.

They should have not offered it from the start like the rest.

 

[The Faceless Master]

After seeing Geohot's reply! It got me thinking.. maybe Sony chose April 1st on purpose. Not so much as a JOKE.. but as using the fact that is April 1st as a way to pull out. So Basically test the waters so to speak.

Tell everyone OS support is gone, see reaction. If its favorable proceed. If its not "APRIL FOOLS!!!"..

Touché Sony

yeah i can imagine... "April Fools! We are FULLY COMMITTED to the OtherOS functionality on the PS3" bla bla bla...

 

[crazygambit]

I tend to question the person who constantly has to play back-up dvds.

You know, discs can and do get damaged while playing. I have my 360 vertically and was playing while charging the controller and the cord got tangled in something so I tugged...
Well the 360 decided to fall (it was on the floor to begin with, so not a big fall), but it was enough to render the DVD useless. The console would read the game, but if you tried to play it it wouldn't load. Luckily it was the shitty sega tennis game that came with the unit and I've learned my lesson, but if it had been a brand new $60 game I would've been majorly pissed.

So I can certainly see the value in using only backups and keeping the originals in their cases.

On topic, if this were an iphone maybe I'd believe this guy, but I don't think he knows that much about the PS3 for this to come any time soon.

 

[Prezhulio]

Future exploit? Not a current one, but if there is a possibility that an exploit can be achieved through a feature that a minute fraction of the total install base utilizes, why wouldn't they shut it down? It would be irresponsible of them to not take action.

Please gtfo. Fucking yanking this feature and cramming garbage down everyones throat like their ps3 is going to give up their credit information is ridiculous. AND even if that was remotely feasible why not fix you shitty code on your end and plug the "security issue" that way. This is a lazy cop out and contradicts what they "promised" not even 6 months ago about support for other os.

 

[Version 3.0]

Every 360, Wii, PSP, and PC DD client works the same way. You don't update, you don't play new games. There's nothing that says Sony can't release games incompatible with old software. And such arguements that they do will never hold up because it would mean that every hardware would need to be compatible will all future software or somebody can file a lawsuit.

Maybe you're just caught up in branding that a PS3 plays all "PS3" games. Software is software, at best you could get them to call them PS3 3.21 games which PS3 never said it was compatible with.

My GAF analogy does stand, you didn't pay anything to access PSN which is a service apart from PS3 hardware that they provide but are not required to by any law. Even if you did pay for it they can still terminate it just like Microsoft does if you cheat, pirate, harass, and send naked pictures of yourself. If you want network service you must agree to the TOS. They aren't trying to be subversive and tricking you out of it (which would be the best legal argument you could make about it), the whole point of this is to give people a heads up that they will be taking away OtherOS and you can bow out if you don't like it.

I think you're confusing how things work with how things should work. People who defend bad things by pointing out that other similar bad things also exist are the worst debaters around. The fact that scams exist doesn't mean scams are okay. The same applies to business practices.

And no, your analogy doesn't stand. This has little to do with PSN. People who never have and never will take their PS3 online will be affected by this. There's a big difference between the ability to use a service and a device that effectively ceases to function.

 

[The Faceless Master]

Well, dragona said on post #550 that the reason MS bans people from xbox live is because of using pirated software. I could be wrong, but I think MS bans people because of the custom dvd firmware. There is no proof that all people who use custom dvd firmware are using pirated games or MS's code. So, depending on how you interpret Dragona's post, some could argue that dragona is accusing people of custom firmwares as pirates which is not necessarilyt the case.

My point is this, this whole equating hacks with piracy is a slippery slope, banning people for this this transgression is too harsh. Give a warning or something.

well, if you made a backup, you have the original right? play the original online and keep your backup for when your original gets scratched.

also, if you have a backup and made it properly, you'd have all the proper security sector info and not get banned like all the people who downloaded bad rips from the internet, right?

either way, you're comparing an actual threat to a future potential threat, and all the people who would actually use a future potential threat will either box their ps3's until they're hacked or buy one on ebay from someone who decided to save their 3.15 PS3 to make money on later.

 

[missile]

... :lol Why on earth would Sony ever do that? One rip of the dev environment and their entire system is compromised. Perhaps someone should start an online petition to get Sony to do this

To make money. Just imagine that Sony doesn't lose money on the PS3 any longer.

I think a plain naked PS3 can be build such that nothing would be compromised, similar
to Sony ZECO Cell boards, which are actually PS3s having the RSX enable -- without any
Hypervisor in-between. Anyways, I was just dreaming.

 

[Tellaerin]

There would be no "losers waiting for CFW" if Sony hadn't reacted the way it did.

Let's assume for a moment that Sony's doing this in response to some specific vulnerability that they found, whether internally or courtesy of an outside tip (since some of you can't seem to believe Sony knows anything about their own hardware. ) If that's the case, then how is Sony 'supposed' to act? Deliberately ignore it and leave the hole unplugged, knowing it's waiting to be found and exploited, because actually doing something about it might piss off a tiny fraction of their userbase?

For the record, I'm usually one of the most pro-consumer people here. I'm siding with Sony on this one because I've seen what can happen to third-party support for a system once it gets a reputation for being 'pirate-friendly'. (Yes, I'm talking about the PSP.) I buy game consoles to play games. I know they're closed platforms, trading off programmability for added security, and I accept that. It's nice that Sony opened up the PS3 to hobbyists to the extent they did, but if they feel they can no longer offer that functionality without compromising the security of the system, then it's time to close the door. As a consumer, a scenario where the hardware gets hacked, piracy becomes an issue, and some third parties withdraw their support for the system hurts me more than one where Sony takes stringent measures to prevent piracy before it starts, even if those measures also make homebrew development difficult or impossible. The hobby hackers might do some neat stuff, but I don't realistically expect them to pick up the slack on the game development side if third parties start bailing due to piracy. Now, if there was a way to safely support homebrew while still ensuring that piracy wouldn't become an issue, I'd be all for it. But if it's an all-or-nothing choice, losing homebrew is a small price to pay to keep the platform free of piracy and ensure the third-party games keep coming.

 

[Vorador]

This thread is both sad and amusing. Shows how much people can love something that doesn't love them back.

 

[hateradio]

This thread is both sad and amusing. Shows how much people can love something that doesn't love them back.

The game industry ... full of heartbreak

[no chrono break/brake, cries for an hour]

 

[itxaka]

Nice on geohot stepping up to try and provide a updated firmware with otherOS functionality intact.

We will also see if, as half of GAF denies, he knows anything about security.

 

[The Faceless Master]

I think you're confusing how things work with how things should work. People who defend bad things by pointing out that other similar bad things also exist are the worst debaters around. The fact that scams exist doesn't mean scams are okay. The same applies to business practices.

And no, your analogy doesn't stand. This has little to do with PSN. People who never have and never will take their PS3 online will be affected by this. There's a big difference between the ability to use a service and a device that effectively ceases to function.

yeah, this reminds me of all the people who defended MS and their memory card prices by saying "bu-bu-but PS2!"

 

[Diablohead]

*Sony watches Wii and 360 get hacked*
*Sony sits a year*
*Sony sits a year*
*Sony sits a year*
Sony: OH SHIT!
*Sony removes Other OS as a precaution*

But those other consoles were not hacked through OtherOS or whatever, they had their own methods. Nice try though.

 

[Drastic]

Those asking about where linux on ps3 is advertised, look here:
http://www.playstation.com/ps3-openplatform/index.html

This page is linked from approx. 1600 urls known to Yahoo:
http://bit.ly/b1QAcX

 

[Raist]

didn't know that many people were in love with the OtherOS feature.

 

[tokkun]

I have never used the OtherOS feature, but here goes:

Should the overwhelming majority of people have to deal with potential damage done to the PSN because of a feature which, as gofreak explained earlier, Sony has limited control over?

While it is regrettable for those who enjoy Linux on their PS3, I hate to say this, but it's for the greater good. Sony probably sees a way to alter the PS3 in a way they wouldn't like through the OtherOS feature.

Huh, didn't realize Dick Cheney posted on GAF.

 

[cRIPticon]

didn't know that many people were in love with the OtherOS feature.

Don't think they are, actually. Just pissed that Sony would remove a feature from the PS. A feature that was already removed with the PS3 Slim.

Please gtfo. Fucking yanking this feature and cramming garbage down everyones throat like their ps3 is going to give up their credit information is ridiculous. AND even if that was remotely feasible why not fix you shitty code on your end and plug the "security issue" that way. This is a lazy cop out and contradicts what they "promised" not even 6 months ago about support for other os.

So, have Sony burn resources to *possibly* fix a security issue, which they would have no real way of knowing how such a security exploit may be utilized, for an extremely small percentage of the user base, that drives zero revenue for using said feature, is a good use of their time and resources? Hell no.

Lose Linux, save the money that would be burned in a trivial pursuit such as this, and keep the eco-system in tact.

 

[kittoo]

Let's assume for a moment that Sony's doing this in response to some specific vulnerability that they found, whether internally or courtesy of an outside tip (since some of you can't seem to believe Sony knows anything about their own hardware. ) If that's the case, then how is Sony 'supposed' to act? Deliberately ignore it and leave the hole unplugged, knowing it's waiting to be found and exploited, because actually doing something about it might piss off a tiny fraction of their userbase?

For the record, I'm usually one of the most pro-consumer people here. I'm siding with Sony on this one because I've seen what can happen to third-party support for a system once it gets a reputation for being 'pirate-friendly'. (Yes, I'm talking about the PSP.) I buy game consoles to play games. I know they're closed platforms, trading off programmability for added security, and I accept that. It's nice that Sony opened up the PS3 to hobbyists to the extent they did, but if they feel they can no longer offer that functionality without compromising the security of the system, then it's time to close the door. As a consumer, a scenario where the hardware gets hacked, piracy becomes an issue, and some third parties withdraw their support for the system hurts me more than one where Sony takes stringent measures to prevent piracy before it starts, even if those measures also make homebrew development difficult or impossible. The hobby hackers might do some neat stuff, but I don't realistically expect them to pick up the slack on the game development side if third parties start bailing due to piracy. Now, if there was a way to safely support homebrew while still ensuring that piracy wouldn't become an issue, I'd be all for it. But if it's an all-or-nothing choice, losing homebrew is a small price to pay to keep the platform free of piracy and ensure the third-party games keep coming.

This man is wise. I completely agree.

 

[Razor210]

Huh, didn't realize Dick Cheney posted on GAF.

Ain't too many ways of saying "for the greater good".

 

[ReyBrujo]

Let's assume for a moment that Sony's doing this in response to some specific vulnerability that they found, whether internally or courtesy of an outside tip (since some of you can't seem to believe Sony knows anything about their own hardware. ) If that's the case, then how is Sony 'supposed' to act? Deliberately ignore it and leave the hole unplugged, knowing it's waiting to be found and exploited, because actually doing something about it might piss off a tiny fraction of their userbase?

Oh, I agree, they know their hardware. Now tell me, don't you think there are ways to patch products without just removing a large functionality (being used or not is another issue).

Think as an engineer or software programmer: when an Adobe Acrobat bug is found you patch it, you don't remove it from every computer. Imagine if Microsoft decided to launch a new version of Internet Explorer for every hole they find and then forcing everyone to either use the new IE version since the previous one will stop browsing internet?

My point is that killing Other OS support is overkill. Unless you found a HUGE hole (you can't have such huge holes unless you have done bad design, or trusted it all in security by obscurity and then making programmers use lazy code like not checking for buffer overruns anywhere because there was no way the hacker was going to get near that code), then there are other ways of doing so.

Yes, I'm talking about the PSP.

Comparing the PS3 with the PSP is comparing apples to oranges. The PS3 is a completely different architecture with a completely different security schema. It took hours to crack the PSP, but years have passed and the PS3 still stands. It will likely take years still to create something like a modchip to be available.

If Sony is so afraid of piracy, they shouldn't have pushed blu-ray. They should have pushed digital downloads.

(Edited: My view point is that of both a consumer (although I haven't bought a PS3) and a programmer. I hate lazy software programmers. And I also hate when companies decide to override your rights (like when Amazon deleted 1984 books from Kindle, demonstrating they could, at any time, delete any book you have deleted from your account).)

 

[missile]

Fine, 600,000 of you, if there were 30mil phats out there, which there are not. The user base is 2%. It is not worth considering when there is a possibility that >2% of the user base could be harmed by a future exploit that could be stopped now.

I wanna see a proof of that from Sony. One can always argue that way, since you never
know for sure. "So why having this feature in the first place?"

... I mean seriously. It's not like you have access to the RSX or multicore, so what's the point?

Personally, I'm not going for the RSX. The RSX would be ok to have, good for the demo
scene and to speed up the fill-rate under PS3Linux. But let me tell you that there is a lot of
multicore inside the PS3. Anyways. It seems like that your aren't into (different) computer
systems. If you only argue from a Windows PC perspective, then you will miss 98% of the
whole market. There are multiple ways one can treat the PS3 while having Linux running.
Everyone has a different need. I for one, for example, have learned what it takes to build an
embedded Linux with the help of PS3Linux, i.e. the OtherOS, by building a Linux so small
that it fits into the 4MB EEPROM. Hence, the bootloader, which usually just kicks the
booting process from HDD has become a Linux by itself -- built to my likely. Bringing down
a Linux under 4MB is pretty interesting. There are a lot of constrains you have to respect.
Doing this on a real hardware will teach you a lot.

 

[charlequin]

It's funny because Dragona, a mod, had almost made the same equating earlier.

:lol

I personally think the mods should ease up banning people for this.

Not gonna happen. Pirates are bad news, and so are people who throw around bullshit accusations of piracy and lie and dissemble in order to support their overzealous anti-modification agenda. GAF's better off without both of 'em.

I'm siding with Sony on this one because I've seen what can happen to third-party support for a system once it gets a reputation for being 'pirate-friendly'.

Yeah, it might all dry up like it did on the 360.

 

[DarkJC]

My point is that killing Other OS support is overkill. Unless you found a HUGE hole (you can't have such huge holes unless you have done bad design, or trusted it all in security by obscurity and then making programmers use lazy code like not checking for buffer overruns anywhere because there was no way the hacker was going to get near that code), then there are other ways of doing so.

The flaw found was a hardware flaw.

 

[cRIPticon]

I wanna see a proof of that from Sony. Once can always argue that that, since you never
know for sure. "So why having this feature in the first place?"

A *possibility* does not require proof. If there is an understanding of an exploit, and the possibility of further compromises, and Sony sees fit to protect the majority of the user base by eliminating this feature from systems the don't even sell any more (Linux capable PS3s), then I say that is good business sense. It would be one thing if a large minority was actively using Linux (35-45%), but the reality is that a extremely small percentage of the total user base will be burned.

Personally, I'm not going for the RSX. The RSX would be ok to have, good for the demo
scene and to speed up the fill-rate under PS3Linux. But let me tell you that there is a lot of
multicore inside the PS3. Anyways. It seems like that your aren't into (different) computer
systems. If you only argue from a Windows PC perspective, then you will miss 98% of the
whole market. There are multiple ways one can treat the PS3 while having Linux running.
Everyone has a different need. I for one, for example, have learned what it takes to build an
embedded Linux with the help of PS3Linux, i.e. the OtherOS, by building a Linux so small
that it fits into the 4MB EEPROM. Hence, the bootloader, which usually just kicks the
booting process from HDD has become a Linux by itself -- built to my likely. Bringing down
a Linux under 4MB is pretty interesting. There are a lot of constrains you have to respect.
Doing this on a real hardware will teach you a lot.

Absolutely incorrect . If you want to understand the CELL architecture, I would suggest you look at more common SMC systems as the information will applicable across a wider range of architectures. As for pushing under 4MB, you can do this on many systems, don't need a PS3 to mess about with.

Look, I do understand the desire to mess about with an exotic piece of kit like the PS3, but if Sony chooses to close the Linux side of things, on systems they don't sell any more (Linux capable PS3's), I don't see this as a huge deal but understand why you may be disappointed.

 

[Raist]

Oh, I agree, they know their hardware. Now tell me, don't you think there are ways to patch products without just removing a large functionality (being used or not is another issue).

Think as an engineer or software programmer: when an Adobe Acrobat bug is found you patch it, you don't remove it from every computer. Imagine if Microsoft decided to launch a new version of Internet Explorer for every hole they find and then forcing everyone to either use the new IE version since the previous one will stop browsing internet?

My point is that killing Other OS support is overkill. Unless you found a HUGE hole (you can't have such huge holes unless you have done bad design, or trusted it all in security by obscurity and then making programmers use lazy code like not checking for buffer overruns anywhere because there was no way the hacker was going to get near that code), then there are other ways of doing so.


Comparing the PS3 with the PSP is comparing apples to oranges. The PS3 is a completely different architecture with a completely different security schema. It took hours to crack the PSP, but years have passed and the PS3 still stands. It will likely take years still to create something like a modchip to be available.

If Sony is so afraid of piracy, they shouldn't have pushed blu-ray. They should have pushed digital downloads.

(Edited: My view point is that of both a consumer (although I haven't bought a PS3) and a programmer. I hate lazy software programmers. And I also hate when companies decide to override your rights (like when Amazon deleted 1984 books from Kindle, demonstrating they could, at any time, delete any book you have deleted from your account).)

The problem is that if the OtherOS function itself is a backdoor, sure they might be able to patch the problem, but then hackers will just find ways around the patch. I'm not sure Sony is willing to play the hack/patch/hack race once again especially for a tiny raction of their userbase.

Also, your analogies are poor. You can't compare software abuse on an open hardware platform vs hacking of a console. Sony has responsibilities towards third party developpers since they're licensing the use of their hardware.

And I'm not sure how you can call them "lazy". The system has been 100% safe for years, that's kind of an unprecedented achievement for a console.

 

[charlequin]

I think you're confusing how things work with how things should work.

Somnid has explicitly said in the past that he is sad that people believe in consumer rights in the world of digital content because that makes it harder for corporations to exploit them in all the ways they would prefer to.