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[harriet the spy]

And did you just believe them, or did you take them to task about it? Of course they're going to tell you that they're right, even though they're wrong. Sony aren't going to get that luxury.

No, I didn't believe them. Well, I had a long and heated argument with the 'genius', but nothing came out of it. Threads on topic seemed to report varying success rates on the matter. I didn't have time to pursue the bullshit much more (which is what i guess many companies rely on), so i fixed it and let it go.
I have actually dealt with companies that would replace your stuff when they broke it in the past, so yeah, I don't see the 'of course' part. Maybe I am getting old and naive.

Don't misunderstand me - i certainly would enjoy to see Sony get a big ol' slap in the face from the EU courts for this. This is just a guess. I know this analogy has been made before, but what about games which servers are turned off (especially multiplayer games only). Especially after a very short window of time. Why aren't these sued? EULA? I thought these were worth peanuts?

 

[Lord Error]

It doesn't matter. It's been 5 years for the 360 and now we have Jtag.

Yeah, but 360 was hacked (although practically only for illegal purposes) through drive firmware way before that.

 

[webcivilian]

I personally don't like features being removed. I don't know if it was a hard decision for them. But people who paid specifically for the OtherOS feature are getting screwed for sure.

If you don't update then you're losing other advertised functionality. Sony are removing advertised functionality either way - either PSN and games or Other OS. "You don't have to upgrade" doesn't save them, because they make it quite clear that if you don't upgrade you'll lose functionality too.

Here're some snipets from the PS3 XMB/GameOS (Sony calls it System Software):http://www.scei.co.jp/ps3-eula/ps3_eula_en.html

ACCESS TO OR USE OF THE SYSTEM SOFTWARE IN THE SONY COMPUTER ENTERTAINMENT INC. ("SCE")'S PlayStation®3 COMPUTER ENTERTAINMENT SYSTEM UNIT ("PS3™ system") IS EXPRESSLY CONDITIONED UPON ACCEPTANCE OF THE TERMS OF THIS AGREEMENT.

To the extent permitted by applicable law, your rights to use or access the current version of the System Software will cease upon installation of a newer version of the System Software onto your PS3™ system, whether such installation occurs through manual or automatic download by SCE through SCE's online network, or otherwise. SCE does not grant any license to System Software obtained by users in any manner other than through SCE's authorized distribution methods.

Some services may be provided automatically without notice when you are online,

Some services may change your current settings, cause a loss of data or content, or cause some loss of functionality.

There are many other things covered in it. Let's see how it holds up in court.

 

[iapetus]

That's illegal, so no dice.

As are some of the terms in most EULAs. The lack of legality is just more subtle.

 

[iapetus]

Have done some reading of the relevant EU directive, and it seems to specify that I have recourse against Amazon for this, and they in turn have recourse against Sony. I like that setup.

 

[missile]

It's vastly overstated how useful running Linux on a ps3 is. Try a PPC distro if you have an old spare mac lying around - you're not going to find some amazing development environment or usable desktop. Packages just aren't maintained anymore - nobody gives a shit about the platform. In truth, you're going to be stuck with Firefox 3.01 or something and no flash plugin.

 

[LM4sure]

I know your joking...right?

It's been over 3 years. It ain't happening soon. Please don't hold your breath, my friend. Update the system.

Not joking. I think the geohot dude hacked it in a week, right? Now some serious hackers are gonna hack the shit outta this thing. The game is on!

 

[missile]

... You, good sir/madam, need to get your hands on a full on CELL system, not the PS3 Very cool stuff and I understand why tinkering with the architecture is fun as I have been involved with many other, much larger SMP/MCA systems over the past 15+ years (think hundreds of cores/thousands of threads). ...

Clusters are cool, I did some sims on a big one. Well with respect to computing,
parallelizing an application over multiple nodes is good, but parallelizing the
compute kernels on-chip as well, makes the whole thing much more efficient. The
interesting point on the Cell processors, and the reason I like it that much,
are its programmable memory interface which makes it far more superior with
respect to non-programmable ones like you have on Intel and whatever. It's a bit
more difficult, initially, but once you got it, it's A LOT more natural to use
and in the end leads to a higher efficiency, like one can see on the (4k x 4k)
SGEMM math kernel, which attains a 99% efficiency on the Cell processor -- a
result that currently cannot be matched by any other hardware / architecture in
existens, not even Larrabee was able to get even close. And as one can see,
PS3 Games have also improved a lot by utilizing the resources much better. In
GoW III, for example, the better MLAA (Morphological Antialiasing) would cost
about 20ms on one SPE wheras 2xMSAA would cost only 5ms per frame on the RSX.
But by splitting the MLAA algorithm / data over five SPEs they could cut down
the time to only 4ms and additionally gain 5ms from the RSX to implement more
features.

In essence, programming on the Cell processor can teach one how to program much
more efficiently, which carries over to any other system, but not vise versa.
One more reason to have access to the OtherOS.

Well the "cost" of a product is a sum of all work and support that goes into it. So, if cutting the "Other OS" option saves them money from not having to pay one guy each firmware update for who knows how many man hours testing that release but because they have to keep the guy working anyways because they're going to continue supporting the feature on the older models, well then they haven't saved any money at all. ...

Honestly, what does it cost? Sometimes I get the feeling that they have to spend
millions to maintain a given feature -- a feature an undergraduate could
possibly maintain in its spare time. Well, speaking about the cost, I'm pretty
sure that Sony uses Linux on their backbones as well. Did they paid a dime for
Linux or for those who maintain the entire thing? But Sony wanna tell us that
they can't maintain a software like the OtherOS. It's not rocket science.

Further. What about the PS3 browser? I bet that an undergraduate project would
build something better within 4 week. No kidding.

They simply don't want to build a better browser, and they simply don't wanna
have the OtherOS any longer. GAME | CONSUME | DIE. That's it.

 

[SecretBonusPoint]

Not joking. I think the geohot dude hacked it in a week, right? Now some serious hackers are gonna hack the shit outta this thing. The game is on!

Its not hacked. 'The game' has been on for 4 years. Enjoy waiting potentially another 4 if ever.

 

[LM4sure]

Its not hacked. 'The game' has been on for 4 years. Enjoy waiting potentially another 4 if ever.

I might end up selling the PS3 and getting a 360 if it takes too long. I was anxiously awaiting for the PS3 to be hacked, and by Sony taking out Linux to prevent it, I very well might go to the 360. I can play a hacked 360 online.

But I'm cautiously optimistic. Shouldn't take long for the work around.

 

[CrayzeeCarl]

I might end up selling the PS3 and getting a 360 if it takes too long. I was anxiously awaiting for the PS3 to be hacked, and by Sony taking out Linux to prevent it, I very well might go to the 360. I can play a hacked 360 online.

But I'm cautiously optimistic. Shouldn't take long for the work around.

I don't understand this. The only value you see in the PS3 is potential to be hacked? I get the attraction to being able to do more with your system, but I guess the most important thing about a games console to me are the GAMES. :/

 

[SecretBonusPoint]

I might end up selling the PS3 and getting a 360 if it takes too long. I was anxiously awaiting for the PS3 to be hacked, and by Sony taking out Linux to prevent it, I very well might go to the 360. I can play a hacked 360 online.

But I'm cautiously optimistic. Shouldn't take long for the work around.

Yes, enjoy doing so and you'll have more than some optional extra OtherOS support taken away :lol Make sure you've paid for a full year of Live beforehand as well just so I can enjoy your epic fail all the more!

 

[jonabbey]

I might end up selling the PS3 and getting a 360 if it takes too long. I was anxiously awaiting for the PS3 to be hacked, and by Sony taking out Linux to prevent it, I very well might go to the 360. I can play a hacked 360 online.

But I'm cautiously optimistic. Shouldn't take long for the work around.

You're not banned yet?

 

[patsu]

I might end up selling the PS3 and getting a 360 if it takes too long. I was anxiously awaiting for the PS3 to be hacked, and by Sony taking out Linux to prevent it, I very well might go to the 360. I can play a hacked 360 online.

But I'm cautiously optimistic. Shouldn't take long for the work around.

If you have a non B/C unit, you might as well sell your PS3 now. If you wait longer, your PS3 value will drop when the rumored SKU comes out.

Honestly, what does it cost? Sometimes I get the feeling that they have to spend
millions to maintain a given feature -- a feature an undergraduate could
possibly maintain in its spare time. Well, speaking about the cost, I'm pretty
sure that Sony uses Linux on their backbones as well. Did they paid a dime for
Linux or for those who maintain the entire thing? But Sony wanna tell us that
they can't maintain a software like the OtherOS. It's not rocket science.

DeanA (Sony dev) from B3D mentioned that it's non-trivial to write new drivers.

Further. What about the PS3 browser? I bet that an undergraduate project would
build something better within 4 week. No kidding.

4 weeks from scratch ? I don't know... he may still be grappling with the SPU local store and b*tching at the same time. The browser needs to run in-game (i.e., small) and fast. It supports JavaScript and Flash. Even open source Flash on PC is not so hot after so many years.

 

[jonabbey]

If you have a non B/C unit, you might as well sell your PS3 now. If you wait longer, your PS3 value will drop when the rumored SKU comes out.

What rumoured SKU?

 

[patsu]

The one that is going through FCC now.

 

[Diablohead]

Yes, enjoy doing so and you'll have more than some optional extra OtherOS support taken away :lol Make sure you've paid for a full year of Live beforehand as well just so I can enjoy your epic fail all the more!

Microsoft don't ban gamertags for modded 360's, long as he buys a new xbox every 6 months or so he is golden.

Which brings up the question why does he want to play on a modded 360?

 

[jonabbey]

The one that is going through FCC now.

Ah, the one with the supposed 45nm RSX, ok.

 

[patsu]

Yes, I am thinking if a PS3 owner can't appreciate the games by now. He should definitely sell it asap and let someone poorer enjoy his system. 8^P

It's good karma, dude !

 

[racerx]

I might end up selling the PS3 and getting a 360 if it takes too long. I was anxiously awaiting for the PS3 to be hacked, and by Sony taking out Linux to prevent it, I very well might go to the 360. I can play a hacked 360 online.

But I'm cautiously optimistic. Shouldn't take long for the work around.

uh.... No you can't play a hacked 360s online. All new 360s are pretty much hack proof.

 

[charlequin]

There's a European directive that says that for at least 2 years (more depending on member state) a device must do what it is advertised that it would do. In the UK this extends to 6 years, which covers all PS3s out there.

Hot diggity damn!

:bow European consumer protection laws

It's so tempting to call the people in here who value corporate rights over their own mindless sheep, but they're not. They're more like the genetically engineered cow that wants to be eaten from The Restaurant at the End of the Universe.

:lol

 

[patsu]

It's so tempting to call the people in here who value corporate rights over their own mindless sheep, but they're not. They're more like the genetically engineered cow that wants to be eaten from The Restaurant at the End of the Universe.

Some of those people understand the big picture as well as the individual rights though. They may have a bigger heart, or they may want to wait and see. Not everyone is on the same timeline, not everyone will have knee jerk reaction.

I think people who attempt to brand others with only partial information and think they know everything need more exposure.

 

[Dragona Akehi]

That's illegal, so no dice.

butts butts butts

Some of those people understand the big picture as well as the individual rights though. They may have a bigger heart, or they may want to wait and see. Not everyone is on the same timeline, not everyone will have knee jerk reaction.

I think people who attempt to brand others with only partial information and think they know everything needs more exposure.

That or they have a Kratos avatar.

 

[patsu]

I can stick a Kratos or a Master Chief avatar now. Pro-corporation folks are there for their own reasons. They can have a valid point too. We need to look at the issue on hand. At the end of the day, they bring a different perspective to the ecosystem. Whether they will end up being the cows getting eaten remains to be seen.

After Sony release the firmware, we will have enough time to plot and sue them anyway should we smell something fishy. What's the rush ? Not confident of consumer rights or legal system ?

 

[AmericanNinja]

yeah this is a non-issue.

 

[pain-giver]

Basically, Sony are trying to stop piracy by cutting Linux out from the PS3, so how are they to blame for everything? Blame the pirates who "can't afford" games or are MAKING A STAND AGAINST THE EVIL GAME COMPANIES. All Sony are trying to do is protect potential sales and they are trying to cut off an illegal activity.

People who are saying we are 'corporate sheep' or whatever need to grow up. Did Sony want people pirating their games? No. So whose fault is this? People who are 2 COOLZ to buy games.

So please answer me this, how are they in the wrong? Yes, they are removing some features, unfortunately, people engaging in illegal activity ruined it for everyone else. And if you are stupid enough to try and get round the patch Sony release, I hope they find a way to brick your console :lol

 

[patsu]

IMHO, they are at fault on several grounds, but the question is whether the decision is wise and in our interests also.

 

[Monkeylord]

By all accounts, this will be the update that will add LOVEfilm streaming for us in Europe (like Netflix, but much, much less content) so I'm torn between being annoyed that features are being removed, and being delighted that FINALLY we in Europe will have access to a (for all intents and purposes) Netflix equivalent.

http://www.prnewswire.co.uk/cgi/news/release?id=281845

http://www.lovefilm.com/micro/lovefilm_tv/index.html

 

[racerx]

pain-giver
Banned
(Today, 10:52 AM)
Reply | Quote

LOL. Oh come on, ease up banning these people. I think most people are well aware that hacking a console does not mean you're pirating software.

 

[Majine]

By all accounts, this will be the update that will add LOVEfilm streaming for us in Europe (like Netflix, but much, much less content) so I'm torn between being annoyed that features are being removed, and being delighted that FINALLY we in Europe will have access to a (for all intents and purposes) Netflix equivalent.

http://www.prnewswire.co.uk/cgi/news/release?id=281845

http://www.lovefilm.com/micro/lovefilm_tv/index.html

Eh, is it an application, or just the webbrowser?

 

[Kittonwy]

I might end up selling the PS3 and getting a 360 if it takes too long. I was anxiously awaiting for the PS3 to be hacked, and by Sony taking out Linux to prevent it, I very well might go to the 360. I can play a hacked 360 online.

But I'm cautiously optimistic. Shouldn't take long for the work around.

Why do you need it hacked?

 

[Monkeylord]

Eh, is it an application, or just the webbrowser?

Looking at the LOVEfilm website it looks to be an application (probably similar to the BBC iPlayer one)... then again, seeing how I provided those 2 links you all now know as much as I do, and PS3 isn't specifically mentioned, but they couldn't rightly leave it out, eh.

 

[badcrumble]

pain-giver
Banned
(Today, 10:52 AM)
Reply | Quote

LOL. Oh come on, ease up banning these people. I think most people are well aware that hacking a console does not mean you're pirating software.

There are issues of implicit consent involved, for sure, but the Good Germans looking for something like XBMC aren't guilty of anything illegal whatsoever and it's silly to accuse them of such.

 

[Majine]

Looking at the LOVEfilm website it looks to be an application (probably similar to the BBC iPlayer one)... then again, seeing how I provided those 2 links you all now know as much as I do, and PS3 isn't specifically mentioned, but they couldn't rightly leave it out, eh.

I heard you can already rent movies and watch them in the webbrowser. Which apparently was utter crap. :lol

 

[racerx]

There are issues of implicit consent involved, for sure, but the Good Germans looking for something like XBMC aren't guilty of anything illegal whatsoever and it's silly to accuse them of such.

huh? Who is accusing XBMC makers of anything? No one is saying that they are pirates.

 

[firex]

butts butts butts



That or they have a Kratos avatar.

No. Some of them have Drake/Snake avatars.

 

[Dragona Akehi]

Why do you need it hacked?

Why wouldn't you want it hacked? The ability to render a 360 region free alone is a huge boon. When things like XBMC360 get released, it's only going to get better.

 

[chubigans]

Why wouldn't you want it hacked?

As someone who's gonna be entering the PS3/PSP Minis program later this year, I sure as hell don't want it hacked.

 

[Somnid]

Why wouldn't you want it hacked? The ability to render a 360 region free alone is a huge boon. When things like XBMC360 get released, it's only going to get better.

I don't think either of these were especially applicable to the PS3 which is what he was talking about.

 

[Ashuron]

Banning pain-giver for talking about how Linux would lead to piracy is bullshit when it's in the freaking THREAD TITLE.

What he said is truth. The reason they are removing Linux is because of possible piracy with custom firmware and I accept that.

Dragona is too fucking ban-happy when it comes to this shit.

I'm out.

 

[SecretBonusPoint]

As I've learned from PSP CFW, giving up PSN access is not worth a hacked console, something which is no doubt escalated massively on a system that flourishes in an always connected environment.

Hacking a portable gives you more options while on the go, but I've never really seen much of an upside in hacking a region free console beyond anything a mini-PC or setup could provide. In the time it takes to wait for the PS3 to get "fully hacked" and CFW up to scratch, you could have obtained such a thing and had all these wonderments you'd been waiting for on a genuinely open platform.

 

[kamorra]

Wasn't the 360 hacked a few months after it was released? Totally different beasts I think.

The PS3 hacking scene has been quiet (non-existent) until recently with this geohot stuff.

I just don't see it happening anytime soon. Have fun not going on PSN for a few years while you wait for it to be cracked. Does anyone seriously see something big coming anytime soon? I don't even see it happening before the PS4 is released.

Before Jtag there was no real solution to use homebrew on a 360. They used a flaw in the DVD firmware to play backups but the system was not hacked open.

 

[Dragona Akehi]

I don't think either of these were especially applicable to the PS3 which is what he was talking about.

It's still definitely applicable. Region free bluray playback for one. Bypassing region coding on PSOne/PS2 discs.

 

[patsu]

Why wouldn't you want it hacked? The ability to render a 360 region free alone is a huge boon. When things like XBMC360 get released, it's only going to get better.

I believe Sony will kick itself hard when XBMC360 becomes available.

 

[XiaNaphryz]

Bypassing region coding on PSOne/PS2 discs.

It would be nice to finally put away my JP PS2 and just use my PS3 for all my PS2 needs.

 

[Somnid]

It's still definitely applicable. Region free bluray playback for one. Bypassing region coding on PSOne/PS2 discs.

Fair enough.

 

[Dragona Akehi]

I believe Sony will kick itself hard when XBMC360 becomes available.

XMBCPS3 would be just as great a boon.

 

[Metalmurphy]

Why wouldn't you want it hacked? The ability to render a 360 region free alone is a huge boon. When things like XBMC360 get released, it's only going to get better.

Hacking brings to hacked games, which brings to cheating in online games.

Pretty big reason not to get it hacked.

 

[chubigans]

XMBCPS3 would be just as great a boon.

So I have to ask...why is it more important to have XMBCPS3 than it is to have a secure system for devs?

If your answer is you don't really care as an individual about software corps, that software can still sell despite piracy, and that it will happen eventually, then fine. Those are answers. To say that hacking won't lead to piracy eventually is something I have a hard time wrapping my head around.

Not all hackers are pirates, of course. But the few that are have the potential to wreck a decent number of sales on the PS3 including mine.

So...why is it so important to hack the PS3 again, Dragona?

 

[Somnid]

XMBCPS3 would be just as great a boon.

But if they didn't get it done with 3 years on legit Linux why should anyone expect it?