Support NeoGAF

[cormack12]

Source: https://www.installbaseforum.com/fo...party-games-have-been-leaked.2215/post-216754

Data as of Jan 2020
Details Disc Retail, Bundled, and Digital

Disc and Bundled-
SIEA: 11th Jan 2020
SIEE: 12th Jan 2020
SIEJA: 12th Jan 2020

Digital: 19th Jan 2020

PS4: 105.3 million (including 14.3 million PS4 Pro) as of 19th Jan 2020
PSVR: 5.1 million as of 19th Jan 2020

PS4 released in 2013
PS4 sales were at 50 million Dec 2016 (https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ga...s-sold-as-of-december-6-2016-sony-1635203/amp)

PS4 Pro launched in 2016.
By 2020, there were combined sales of both platforms totalling 110 million (https://hypebeast.com/2020/5/sony-playstation-4-110-million-sales-game-boy-color-consoles)

In 2020
Based on the stats above, The lifetime ratio overall for PS4: Pro was 15:2 (~7 to 1)
Based on the stats above the delta ratio would be 30:7 (~4 to 1)

PS4 was most profitable console ever up to 2021 as well.


Would you interpret this as worthy of the R&D? Is it worth pursuing for the enthusiast market? Does it provide value for the consumer?

 

[Tsaki]

A comment I made in a previous thread:

The PS5 Pro has multiple reasons to exist:
1. You keep more people on the PS ecosystem when they might have switched over to PC due to the stronger hardware that comes over time.
2. The people that buy the more expensive machine have more disposable income, so on average they are more valuable customers. A person that buys such a machine is more inclined to invest into it to justify their purchase.
3. You create a new wave of marketing that keeps the Playstation brand fresh and into the news.
4. You have a Halo product. Its existence indirectly affects the base PS5. Like Richard said, a 4090 is miniscule in volume compared to the other GPUs, but Nvidia does all they can to have such a product in the market, showing that they have the strongest product even though it's bad performance/$ and you'll never buy it anyway.
5. DF, NXGamer, VGTech, etc become your free marketing tools. Every single 3rd party game will be played best on Playstation (console comparisons only ofc).
6. Better Backwards Compatibility. All PS5 games will benefit from the new hardware. Locked 30, 40, 60 fps. Does GT7 run at 90 fps? Boom 120.
7. Better Forward Compatibility. Games that have PS5 Pro taken into account, will have higher resolution, assets and frame rates unlocked for PS6.
8. PSVR2 becomes a more attractive product if you have stronger hardware running games on it.
9. "The most powerful console in the world" tagline is something Sony can actually use.
10. "Did you buy a Series X in order to have the most powerful console? Well I have a product for you!" Stealing costumers from MS is invaluable.
11. Better collaboration with AMD. Being in the weeds co-developing technology, seeing what works and what doesn't, is a great interim in acquiring knowledge, experience and usable data for the development of PS6.
These are all things that came to my head as I was writing. If someone really put more thought into it they could point out more.

The question of PS5 Pro existing is either yes or no. There is no interim where they might decide to make one or scrap the plans they already had. The design would be already locked, they'd had many samples back from TSMC and wafer allocation is probably already decided. In which case you'd have to say that Tom Henderson's info are straight up wrong. I do not pay attention to pretty much any leakers. I do trust Tom though, since he leaked the Earbuds, the new Elite headset and the PS Portal; all products Sony is about to release in the market. We have a video of the new ""slim"" model. When Sony announces this SKU it would be another feather in Tom's hat of Sony hardware leaks.

Edit: Watch Sony do something retarded and not put Zen4 so the GPU is heavily bottlenecked.

I guess the Zen2 disappointment is coming though

 

[Robb]

Depends on the amount of R&D I guess, but I can’t imagine a ‘Pro’ version being that R&D heavy. Don’t they usually just use slight improvements of the same stuff that’s already in the currently available system?

An additional +14M sounds decent to me. What are the sales of other versions, like the Ps4 Slim? Do we know the splits per SKU?

 

[kazuyamishima]

After the PS4 Pro launched, Sony sold about 66.2m PS4’s (Slim + Pro), that equals to about 21% consisting of Pro Systems.

I’d say that the strategy is decent.

 

[GHG]

Over 14 million customers and you're asking if it's worth it?

That's about 70% of the current gen install base for some platforms.

 

[KungFucius]

After the PS4 Pro launched, Sony sold about 66.2m PS4’s (Slim + Pro), that equals to about 21% consisting of Pro Systems.

I’d say that the strategy is decent.

This is not enough info. What percentage would have bought a PS4 slim if pro did not exist? What percentage of Pro buyers sold their PS4 vs kept it for another screen? What percentage of those who bought those used PS4s would have bought a new one if the used one wasn't available? Did it attract console buyers who would have instead gotten something else? Basically, how many of these systems led to increased sales of games that they wouldn't have gotten without developing and marketing a new SKU?

Depends on the amount of R&D I guess, but I can’t imagine a ‘Pro’ version being that R&D heavy. Don’t they usually just use slight improvements of the same stuff that’s already in the currently available system?

An additional +14M sounds decent to me. What are the sales of other versions, like the Ps4 Slim? Do we know the splits per SKU?

It is still a significant cost to develop. It also added cost to every game to have to support the better specs. That would probably be the biggest cost and it is forced on all devs. My first thought seeing these numbers is that it was absolutely not worth it, but I would need to see some data to feel confident to know for sure.

 

[KungFucius]

Over 14 million customers and you're asking if it's worth it?

That's about 70% of the current gen install base for some platforms.

C'mon. Many OG PS5 owners 'upgraded' to a slim. It is not 14 million new customers unless they all sold their OG PS4s and the people who bought them would not have bought new ones if there were no used ones. And the people who bought the used ones would need to be buying new games and subbing to PS+ for this strategy to be meaningful.

 

[GHG]

C'mon. Many OG PS5 owners 'upgraded' to a slim. It is not 14 million new customers unless they all sold their OG PS4s and the people who bought them would not have bought new ones if there were no used ones. And the people who bought the used ones would need to be buying new games and subbing to PS+ for this strategy to be meaningful.

Even if it's 14 million people upgrading its still 14 million people saying "this product is worth my money".

Where are these questions for the Switch OLED or steam deck OLED? I'm in the process of upgrading my existing steam deck to a steam deck OLED, is that a problem?

A sale is a sale and a customer is a customer. Companies release iterative products to ensure their customers stay within their ecosystem (and don't get tempted to stray elsewhere for reasons easily in their control) all the time.

 

[kazuyamishima]

This is not enough info. What percentage would have bought a PS4 slim if pro did not exist? What percentage of Pro buyers sold their PS4 vs kept it for another screen? What percentage of those who bought those used PS4s would have bought a new one if the used one wasn't available? Did it attract console buyers who would have instead gotten something else? Basically, how many of these systems led to increased sales of games that they wouldn't have gotten without developing and marketing a new SKU?

Same thing can be said about other refresh models like Switch lite or Switch OLED. What do we have is the set in stone number of 14.xx million units sold of PS4 Pro systems.

As for the bold text, we don’t have the numbers, the only data that exists is that the PS4 has the highest attach rate of any console/handheld in history.

 

[FalsettoVibe]

It was enough for Sony to say let's do it again so does it matter?

 

[Portugeezer]

I remember hearing the 4:1 ratio a while back.

It would be annoying when they would show off a game and you wouldn't know if the base console would look the same or not.

Thankfully most of the time it was just a resolution difference, but with PS5 Pro we're hearing better RT which could cause a big visual difference when previewing a game.

 

[yazenov]

The PS5 Pro alone might outsell the Xbox Series X, and the fact that they are releasing a pro version again shows you it was a success given the data Sony had with the PS4 Pro.

 

[Kikorin]

No, it only helped to generate so much negativity when PS5 launched and the graphical jump has been minimal. If they would have gone directly from the base PS4 to actual PS5 things would have been a lot more exciting.

 

[balls of snow]

Thats 14 million that could have switched to pc. Worth it.

 

[The Fuzz damn you!]

It was enough for Sony to say let's do it again so who cares.

This is really all you need. Sony makes consoles to make a profit - they have the data that we don’t, and they say it’s worth it.

14 million consoles sold? 1 in 5 for the rest of the generation? Of course that’s worth it! The pro was most certainly sold for a profit (the PS4 by that stage and the Pro - as a lower volume “enthusiast” device rather than a loss- or low-profit leader - would certainly be designed to extend that profit margin), so I’m struggling to think what possible reason anyone could have for thinking that it isn’t worth it…?

 

[clarky]

Even if it's 14 million people upgrading its still 14 million people saying "this product is worth my money".

Where are these questions for the Switch OLED or steam deck OLED? I'm in the process of upgrading my existing steam deck to a steam deck OLED, is that a problem?

A sale is a sale and a customer is a customer. Companies release iterative products to ensure their customers stay within their ecosystem (and don't get tempted to stray elsewhere for reasons easily in their control) all the time.

I get what your saying but an upgrading customer from PS5 to Pro is worth a hell of a lot less than a new customer to Sony's current eco system.

Like how many PS5 users would abandon it entirely mid gen if the Pro didn't exist? No many imo. Same with how many people are hanging on for a pro model that don't yet own a PS5? Again not many imo.

12% ish of the user base were PS4 Pro's. Unless MS are doing something similar, I don' see why they are bothering.

 

[jroc74]

I just look at PSVR 1 vs PSVR 2.

If Sony were fine doing that, a PS5 Pro was a no brainer.

Their overall strategy this gen has been to launch a ton of hardware: consoles, controllers, Portal, ear buds, etc.

 

[GHG]

I get what your saying but an upgrading customer from PS5 to Pro is worth a hell of a lot less than a new customer to your current eco system.

I'm not understanding where the problem is?

This isn't a platform that has a customer acquisition problem so they can afford to divert some resources towards products that lean more into retention strategies than they do customer acquisition strategies (while also having the capacity to enhance the customer experience).

That's not to say a pro console can't aslo be part of a strategy for chasing new customers, but I'm running under the assumption that most pro console customers are upgrading existing hardware from within the same generation (this might not be the case).

Sometimes products exist to retain customers more than they do to acquire new customers. That's just how it is.

 

[clarky]

I'm not understanding where the problem is?

This isn't a platform that has a customer acquisition problem so they can afford to divert some resources towards products that lean more into retention strategies than they do customer acquisition strategies (while also having the capacity to enhance the customer experience).

That's not to say a pro console can't aslo be part of a strategy for chasing new customers, but I'm running under the assumption that most pro console customers are upgrading existing hardware from within the same generation (this might not be the case).

Sometimes products exist to retain customers more than they do to acquire new customers. That's just how it is.

Like I said in my post I don't think the PRO either retains nor brings in a significant amount of new customers.

Their main competition has managed to shoot themselves in the foot for the foreseeable and the PS5 is a fine machine, there's what 3-4 years until the 6? I don't really see the need for a PRO.

I never said there was a problem btw.

 

[Panajev2001a]

One of the main benefits of a Pro model for Sony is that the Slim SoC redesign comes at a lower cost (likely they get both in a single deal, they do not get the slim die-shrinks for almost free anymore), they get to test some early next-generation R&D and gather more data from devs, AND they draw attention to the HW that obtain boosts overall.

 

[GHG]

Like I said in my post I don't think the PRO either retains nor brings in a significant amount of new customers.

Their main competition has managed to shoot themselves in the foot for the foreseeable and the PS5 is a fine machine, there's what 3-4 years until the 6? I don't really see the need for a PRO.

I never said there was a problem btw.

It's not for you then, it's for the ~14 million customers who found value in the proposition last time round.

 

[MasterCornholio]

Like I said in my post I don't think the PRO either retains nor brings in a significant amount of new customers.

Their main competition has managed to shoot themselves in the foot for the foreseeable and the PS5 is a fine machine, there's what 3-4 years until the 6? I don't really see the need for a PRO.

I never said there was a problem btw.

You need to think bigger. Take yourself out of the equation and focus on other consumers.

Was a PS5 worth it to them?

If yes than chances are some of them wouldn't mind an upgrade.

 

[clarky]

You need to think bigger. Take yourself out of the equation and focus on other consumers.

Was a PS5 worth it to them?

If yes than chances are some of them wouldn't mind an upgrade.

I'm looking at it from Sony's POV not ours, as per the OP.

I'd probably buy one in all honesty, im a sucker for new shit, even though I already have something better.

 

[MasterCornholio]

I'm looking at it from Sony's POV not ours, as per the OP.

I'd probably buy one in all honesty, im a sucker for new shit, even though I already have something better.

If Sony is doing it I'm sure they are fine with it.

 

[M1chl]

14 mils of is still a ton of consoles, so yeah. Besides these pro consoles are probably sold at lost (tales from my ass) so the more core players wont be switching to a PC, due to performance, IQ and so on. I think its well worth the price of admission, to keep certain more demanding userbase going with the platform.

 

[clarky]

It's not for you then, it's for the ~14 million customers who found value in the proposition last time round.

I never said otherwise.


Edit:

As far as I was aware we were on about whether it makes sense for Sony to continue with the pro strategy. I just commented that i didn't think so if pro buyers are existing customers and make up around just 12% of your (mostly existing) user base.

Obviously it works for Sony or they wouldn't be doing it. I love to see their logic behind it though. Look at the Switch for a case against a pro version.

Nothing about my own personal buying preferences. Like I said ill probably buy one even though it'll perform worse than what's in the house already.

The software is what keeps people in your ecosystem. Its why I'm still there despite owning a PC.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

It makes a lot of sense from a hardware strategy perspective.

I saw someone dismissing the reality that many people probably upgraded. These people upgrading are more likely to stay with a playstation ecosystem rather than invest in PC or buy other gaming hardware. It also floods the market with cheaper PS5s. I think someone said, but maybe these people would have bought brand new PS5s.

Let's examine that, first of all, they haven't bought the new PS5, and second, it's actually better off for Sony for someone to buy a used PS5 than a new PS5 that they take a loss on. Selling the PS5 Pro for profit even a slight profit and having that person's PS5 on the used market is a win win for Sony.

It also wins the core gamer narrative that spills over into more casual conversation in terms of what to buy. The more people who buy a PS5 will lead to more people buying a PS5. That's how you build market share and mindshare.

Market share is pretty quantifiable but mindshare isn't as quantifiable.

Mindshare can also result in greater exposure for other products. Someone who buys a PS5 Pro is more likely to buy a Dual Sense Edge, a PS Portal, and PSVR2. They're more like to buy 1st party Sony titles and a greater attachment rate of games in general.

The net benefits go well beyond just sold through numbers as important as those are.

Same reason you make a movie like the Gran Turismo movie. Even though it wasn't a massive box office success, it certainly drew more people into Gran Tursimo, which will undoubtedly draw more people into PSVR2 and it will probably sell more PS5 Pros. Just getting Gran Turismo on netflix was probably worth it for exposure to the game.

Just like putting out TLOU2 Remastered will push up sales of TLOU1 Remake. Wouldn't be surprised if there is a two pack deal offered when Season 2 comes out of the show.

 

[Crispy Gamer]

Sony once mentioned they didn't expect the ps4pro to sell as much as it was selling so I'm sure they're happy, we're talking about a company that sells VR to such a niche market they'll always find ways for consumers to buy their hardware I'm just happy they're continuing the pro strategy.

 

[Blood Borne]

Don’t care what anyone says, the PS5 Pro is pointless. PS5 power isn’t even being used at the moment, the issue is and will always be games. Make fuckin good games.

Only Nintendo understands this core principle. PS5 power is more than enough. Right now, there are only a handful of PS5-only games, particularly first party, yet here we are talking about PS5 Pro. Where are the fuckin PS5 games?

 

[ReBurn]

It might be enough to sway people who want better performance to spend their money on PlayStation instead of PC. Since there's no guarantee that PlayStation games will come to PC, or that they'll have better performance if they do, a pro console that costs less than a similar gaming PC is worth it to get them into the PlayStation ecosystem and buying software. Selling software is the ultimate goal because that's where the money comes from.

The majority of people aren't going to upgrade to a pro system. They want to play Fortnite and football with their friends so they'll do what they did with PS4 and buy the less expensive console.

 

[lh032]

PS5 pro day 1, count me in

 

[adamsapple]

That's a lot less than I anticipated.

And I was a day 1 buyer.

 

[StereoVsn]

Like I said in my post I don't think the PRO either retains nor brings in a significant amount of new customers.

Their main competition has managed to shoot themselves in the foot for the foreseeable and the PS5 is a fine machine, there's what 3-4 years until the 6? I don't really see the need for a PRO.

I never said there was a problem btw.

Yes, I am sure Sony is wasting their money (not virtually unlimited like MS) after PS4 Pro experience because they don’t have the data or a reason for the launch. It’s just Jimbo (greenlit when he was at the helm) and Cerny taking another Swing at the Windmills.

Or… PS4 Pro proved fairly good overall, succeeded in acquiring new customers, helped retain existing ones (otherwise could jump to PC), as well as gave devs of newer games a higher GPU limit to show off their AAA $300 mil gaming budgets.

But sure it’s a waste and not worth it.

 

[MasterCornholio]

Yes, I am sure Sony is wasting their money (not virtually unlimited like MS) after PS4 Pro experience because they don’t have the data or a reason for the launch. It’s just Jimbo (greenlit when he was at the helm) and Cerny taking another Swing at the Windmills.

Or… PS4 Pro proved fairly good overall, succeeded in acquiring new customers, helped retain existing ones (otherwise could jump to PC), as well as gave devs of newer games a higher GPU limit to show off their AAA $300 mil gaming budgets.

But sure it’s a waste and not worth it.

Makes me wonder why Microsoft isn't doing the same if the rumors are true. The One X was definitely not bad for them.

 

[clarky]

Yes, I am sure Sony is wasting their money (not virtually unlimited like MS) after PS4 Pro experience because they don’t have the data or a reason for the launch. It’s just Jimbo (greenlit when he was at the helm) and Cerny taking another Swing at the Windmills.

Or… PS4 Pro proved fairly good overall, succeeded in acquiring new customers, helped retain existing ones (otherwise could jump to PC), as well as gave devs of newer games a higher GPU limit to show off their AAA $300 mil gaming budgets.

But sure it’s a waste and not worth it.

Cool your defence force jets. Its called speculation and opinion, on something called a forum.

The numbers from the leak show it didn't really do either.

 

[StereoVsn]

Makes me wonder why Microsoft isn't doing the same if the rumors are true. The One X was definitely not bad for them.

One X was great! But hardware isn’t MS issue since XSX is also great unlike OG Xbone.

MS isn’t selling jack console wise. Their 3rd year sales were estimated at what, 7.5 mil? And that includes half or more of Series S which is kind of meh (but cheap).

So introducing XSX Pro doesn’t do much. It will give devs another target to optimize against potentially abysmal number of users, ie 1/4 of XSX sales give or take.

Which is why the rumor is MS wants to open the slate clean once again and launch new gen in 2025/2026. Personally I think that’s insane, but who knows what MS execs are thinking.

 

[Neo_game]

I guess that is the reason PS5 Pro specs are disappointing, they are not expecting it be some 30% of sales, 15% is probably realistic target. Even high end GPU, CPU only sell 10% of market share I think. Pro console is obviously targeting core gamers. I think it will also boost PS5 sales assuming PS5 then retails for 399$ ? But releasing Pro this year makes sense, we are some where in middle of this gen and most mid range PC can easily outperform console.

 

[StereoVsn]

Cool your defence force jets. Its called speculation and opinion, on something called a forum.

The numbers from the leak show it didn't really do either.

This ain’t defense force. That’s logic.

Why did Pro consoles launch last gen? Because GPU limitations were a drag (let’s not mention anemic CPUs).

Why would Sony launch a Pro console in ‘24? Because GPU and especially RT limitations are becoming a drag.

Customers can jump to PC and buy non exclusive games there be PS5 which would be bad for Sony. Customers could also jump to rumored Xbox, although when greenlit Sony was probably thinking MS will launch a Pro as well.

Launching a Pro console makes sense from that and other perspectives. Your arguments were not logical.

 

[Horseganador]

That's what brands like Xbox have been selling for more than 2 years and we're questioning whether it's worth launching it? xDDD, that is a lot of money and they are also purchases by an enthusiastic public that spends and buys games, the rest of the mass of players will buy the normal PS5 and are just as happy.

 

[clarky]

This ain’t defense force. That’s logic.

Why did Pro consoles launch last gen? Because GPU limitations were a drag (let’s not mention anemic CPUs).

Why would Sony launch a Pro console in ‘24? Because GPU and especially RT limitations are becoming a drag.

Customers can jump to PC and buy non exclusive games there be PS5 which would be bad for Sony. Customers could also jump to rumored Xbox, although when greenlit Sony was probably thinking MS will launch a Pro as well.

Launching a Pro console makes sense from that and other perspectives. Your arguments were not logical.

Again I dont think its worth it when only 10% of your mostly already customers will buy it. Obviously Sony thinks its worth it, as do you but i bet they also though MS wouldn't be getting absolutely crushed at this point and also would have their own Pro model in the pipeline when they green lit the thing.


Like i said on a personal level I probably get one, I like new tech. But I already have something that plays 95% of games on the market at 4k 120fps+ and the other 5% will release on it at some point , so its hard to get excited.

 

[Fafalada]

This is not enough info. What percentage would have bought a PS4 slim if pro did not exist? What percentage of Pro buyers sold their PS4 vs kept it for another screen? What percentage of those who bought those used PS4s would have bought a new one if the used one wasn't available? Did it attract console buyers who would have instead gotten something else? Basically, how many of these systems led to increased sales of games that they wouldn't have gotten without developing and marketing a new SKU?

I think the simpler question that covers all of the above is how this affected MAU numbers. Which I'm sure it had positive net effect on, but indeed it's harder to judge how substantial. But you can look at it another way - it kept ASP a fair bit higher, and that one is measurable since we have the split now.

It is still a significant cost to develop.

Unlike previous gens - Slim redesign was already carrying bulk of the R&D cost (no free die-shrinks this time around). The way Sony handled the Pro was kind of a bonus (not quite the case for X1X).

It also added cost to every game to have to support the better specs. That would probably be the biggest cost and it is forced on all devs.

Given that competition enforced the same (Nintendo just a few months later), devs were getting screwed one way or another.

 

[StereoVsn]

Again I dont think its worth it when only 10% of your mostly already customers will buy it. Obviously Sony thinks its worth it, as do you but i bet they also though MS wouldn't be getting absolutely crushed at this point and also would have their own Pro model in the pipeline when they green lit the thing.


Like i said on a personal level I probably get one, I like new tech. But I already have something that plays 95% of games on the market at 4k 120fps+ and the other 5% will release on it at some point , so it’s hard to get excited.

Most PS5 owners don’t have a nice gaming PC though. Hence why Pro makes sense.

PS4 Pro sales are estimated at 25% or so, not 10%, since you can’t count the consoles sold before launch in the calculation.

By launching the Pro Sony essentially caters to their enthusiasts customer base and it makes sense to keep them happy as that’s the people buying most games and spending the most money on the platform.

From individual level it obviously can go either way as at the end all games will be available on base PS5 and if one has a gaming PC vast majority of 3rd party will be there and even some Sony games.

Overall again, Pro makes sense looking at the PS4 Pro sales and continuing rising demand for graphics performance. It’s too bad they are sticking with Zen 2 though.

 

[kungfuian]

I'm not understanding where the problem is?

This isn't a platform that has a customer acquisition problem so they can afford to divert some resources towards products that lean more into retention strategies than they do customer acquisition strategies (while also having the capacity to enhance the customer experience).

That's not to say a pro console can't aslo be part of a strategy for chasing new customers, but I'm running under the assumption that most pro console customers are upgrading existing hardware from within the same generation (this might not be the case).

Sometimes products exist to retain customers more than they do to acquire new customers. That's just how it is.

This is an excellent point and I would add that the 14 million people that bought it are very likely your early adopter type customers who always want the best tech and are willing to pay for it. Retaining 14 million of them mid console cycle very likely increases the chance they stick around when your new console releases. Without a pro you very likely would see some of those 14 million migrate over to Xbox/PC during the new console release. Every new generation there used to be the possibility of large amounts customers changing platforms and the pro systems may help reduce this. In this way pro systems act similar to game libraries in that they lock/entice your higher-end customers to your ecosystem.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

 

[clarky]

Most PS5 owners don’t have a nice gaming PC though. Hence why Pro makes sense.

PS4 Pro sales are estimated at 25% or so, not 10%, since you can’t count the consoles sold before launch in the calculation.

By launching the Pro Sony essentially caters to their enthusiasts customer base and it makes sense to keep them happy as that’s the people buying most games and spending the most money on the platform.

From individual level it obviously can go either way as at the end all games will be available on base PS5 and if one has a gaming PC vast majority of 3rd party will be there and even some Sony games.

Overall again, Pro makes sense looking at the PS4 Pro sales and continuing rising demand for graphics performance. It’s too bad they are sticking with Zen 2 though.

I get what you are saying, If its 25% that makes much more sense.

I was under the impression around 110million PS4 consoles sold, 14mill being Pro's. Hence my 12% or so.

Why are we not counting sales before the pro launched?

 

[Fbh]

Seems like a sort of "Pareto principle" scenario to me.
The pro model isn't about selling a lot but rather keeping the more enthusiast crowd engaged with your platform. And the enthusiast crowd probably spends more time playing, spends more on gaming, generates online discussion about your product, etc.

 

[Topher]

I'm guessing if Sony considered 14.3 million to be a failure then they wouldn't bother with PS5 Pro. I know I'll be there day one for the Pro. HeisenbergFX4 is saving me a place in line.

 

[UltimaKilo]

This doesn't say anything... What was the net profit? Probably high, given the greater margins.

 

[StereoVsn]

I get what you are saying, If its 25% that makes much more sense.

I was under the impression around 110million PS4 consoles sold, 14mill being Pro's. Hence my 12% or so.

Why are we not counting sales before the pro launched?

Because Pro wasn’t available so you can’t really count previous sales. Once it was released, it got about a quarter of all new PS4 sales.

So basically it was new users enticed by a bit more powerful system and enthusiasts looking to upgrade for better graphics.

Also fans of airplane jet engines probably jumped in because that’s what my Pro sounded like.

 

[Daneel Elijah]

Would you interpret this as worthy of the R&D? Is it worth pursuing for the enthusiast market? Does it provide value for the consumer?

I would say yes to all 3 questions. It seems obvious that the PS4 Pro was profitable for Sony. And it had side benefits like training third party studios in making good decisions like unlocked framerates, better presets that allow for the games to be better on the PS5 among others benefits. A PS5 Pro would have the same benefits.
It is worth it for the enthusiast market? Once again, Sony seems to have seen a good return on investment on this. We have some anecdotal evidence like if I remember right the PS4 Pro never getting a price cut in countries like South Korea, and enough games even now like RE 4 Remake are far better on PS4 Pro than on the PS4. Here Sony could have even better results if Xbox don't have a Pro of their own. Having a halo product will pay for itself in PR and allow Playstation partners to use it to their advantage. We talked a lot about GTA 6, but many games would like to use the Pro to have their games shown in the best light possible.
As for the consumer, 14 millions think so for the PS4 Pro. How many will be convinced for the PS5 Pro? This time, there is another benefit that the PS4 did not have: the Series S. Any game that can work on the S will naturally be a lot better on the PS5 Pro. What I mean by that is that we already know that Sony will make their studios use the Pro and make it clear why you should buy one if you are interested in their exclusives. We also know that most third party studios will mostly have a token effort and not push it to the max. But this time the S force them to push games harder to "fit" in the S. So any preset and choice that is worse in the S, like draw distance, AA or shadow quality, can be made at a highter level on the PS5 Pro. Take a game like Fortnite. Whatever limitations that it got on the PS5 will naturally be lifted, and the game will have better internal resolution and FPS by default. But the devs may also put better shadows if they see that it is possible with no problem. Games are more scalable than before, so it will be easier to tap in the PS5 Pro power. It will be the same for the next Xbox, but at some point going from 4 TF to what? 20 TF? 30 TF? 40 TF with dual compute? will make the console naturally underutilised IMHO. But this is another discussion.