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[ResilientBanana]

Why is this current Doom game so polarizing? The other two didn't garner this much animosity towards it. I mean yes it's a tad different with the shield but it's still a gory high adrenaline shooter.

People hate change and the internet is completely polarized at this point. I will have to say, this game is Quake more than it is Doom. They should have went hard with Quake branding.

 

[GigaBowser]

terimble my friends we must help id

 

[MALpractice311]

Why is this current Doom game so polarizing? The other two didn't garner this much animosity towards it. I mean yes it's a tad different with the shield but it's still a gory high adrenaline shooter.

You missed out on a lot of online discourse apparently. Doom 2016 and Doom Eternal were also very polarizing. Lots of people who loved 2016, hated Eternal and lots of people who loved Eternal hated 2016.

 

[Arsic]

Why is this current Doom game so polarizing? The other two didn't garner this much animosity towards it. I mean yes it's a tad different with the shield but it's still a gory high adrenaline shooter.

Forced parry mechanic with giant green orbs isn't what people signed up for when they think Doom.

Most of the encounters in the game not only feel but play out exactly the same because of this mechanic. It's very much a dumbed down and easier game. Still fun but it's the only doom game I completed on nightmare without breaking a sweat.

 

[ThatOneGrunt]

Man I've been loving this game. Haven't been into a game as much as this in a long while. Glad I don't have the same hangups as some of you. Just been able to enjoy it.

 

[Punished Miku]

Game is great, it just had everything against it to sell, not to mention MS is probably happier with the outcome as they claim raising Game Pass subs is more important to them, so game sales are irrelevant for this title and I think "number of players" are completely valid here or else they wouldn't be putting it on Game Pass.

1. It came out after two big bangers, both being only $50
2. It came right before Switch 2 launch
3. Game is $80

So yeah, people already spent their money and are saving it for the new console, but also...

3. Eternal harmed the brand a lot. Eternal fans don't like it being too different and those who didn't like Eternal don't want another disappointment

4. Mandatory RT makes some people believe the game performs like those other games that just use RT as a gimmick (thus you have many people claiming it should be "optional" thinking it's another gimmicky implementation, no it isn't), many don't even try to

From the reboot this is my favorite one, closely followed by 2016 and trying to make my mind and pretend Eternal didn't exist, so game quality is NOT the reason it is not selling, Game Pass is, most people preferred to play it there for the reasons above.

GP isn't even available on Playstation so it's literally impossible that this is the reason. Ever notice how all the people that claim PS5 exclusives are fine for 3rd parties are the same people claiming GP is killing sales? It literally can't. It would have the whole PS5 userbase that an exclusive would, plus PC, plus Xbox, plus GP. GP can't kill a single sale on PS5 launching on day 1. Just literally not what is happening here.

 

[Wildebeest]

I see a lot of people talking about how divisive The Dark Ages is going to be despite Eternal already being the highly divisive game in the series, and id Software knew something needed to be done to try to satisfy both camps of players.

Take a game that is considered a "good reboot" with decent enough sales. A good place to start building a successful IP from. Then take your time to release a sequel. Its okay, people will wait. People buy it and the playerbase is divided. A fraction of the playerbase is not coming back, more are wary. Then take your time to make the third game that is going to turn the ship around. It divides the playerbase again. Eternal fans are not that happy. Who is happy? A fraction of a fraction, when the whole point of the reboot was to start multiplying and growing the fanbase from a respectable but not stellar position in 2016. Not to start chopping away at the playerbase until only the "true fans" who stick with Doom no matter what are left.

 

[Killer8]

But how many people have played it!?!?!!?

Sales is meaningless. What is money? An artificial construct. A miserable pile of profit.

Tell me how many people played it. That is all that matters. Engagement is power.

Say you are Microsoft. You are bringing in a few billion every year from Game Pass. A large percentage of that is your budget to fund the development of content for the service plus acquisition of more content to fill the gaps. You don't rely on traditional sales numbers any more, because the subscription has replaced that.

Now, if everyone is working from the same pool of money, how do you measure the success of which games are pulling their weight on the service ie. which games actually appear to be attracting people to subscribe? How does Microsoft differentiate between the success of Doom versus say South of Midnight? How will Microsoft decide which studios to continue funding?

Engagement is the main thing that matters when answering those questions. If a game doesn't get as many players - as a function of the game's budget - as Microsoft is wanting, then the studio becomes at risk of closure much like how Netflix would evaluate whether a TV show is worth renewal.

 

[Fabieter]

I don't want it to be longer, I want it to be cheaper.

Do you think a 15 hour shooter is alot cheaper to produce as bloated garbage games? The alternative is less budget in shorter games, no fancy shit.

I want cheaper games as well but people want those games to be bleeding edge which doom arguably is.

 

[Kerotan]

200k on ps5 and 200k on Xbox tells you how reliable this data is.

 

[thismeinteil]

Say you are Microsoft. You are bringing in a few billion every year from Game Pass. A large percentage of that is your budget to fund the development of content for the service plus acquisition of more content to fill the gaps. You don't rely on traditional sales numbers any more, because the subscription has replaced that.

Now, if everyone is working from the same pool of money, how do you measure the success of which games are pulling their weight on the service ie. which games actually appear to be attracting people to subscribe? How does Microsoft differentiate between the success of Doom versus say South of Midnight? How will Microsoft decide which studios to continue funding?

Engagement is the main thing that matters when answering those questions. If a game doesn't get as many players - as a function of the game's budget - as Microsoft is wanting, then the studio becomes at risk of closure much like how Netflix would evaluate whether a TV show is worth renewal.

So Hi-Fi Rush gets 3 million players and their studio is shut down. Doom gets 3 million players and it's a success? Make it make sense. Especially considering Hi-Fi Rush 100% cost half, if not less, of what Doom did to make.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

If this turns out to be true, I wouldn't be surprised. I imagined most were going to play on the subscription service. That is the whole point of gamepass. I would be more interested in if these recent Gamepass releases has given MS a sub bump, or are they still stuck at the 30M ceiling they seem to have.

Pausing to say analytic companies are trash, but if anywhere close to accurate based on the 3 million players announcement, this would still be really bad to have 2.2 million out of ~30 million subscribers...

 

[MiguelItUp]

Why is this current Doom game so polarizing? The other two didn't garner this much animosity towards it. I mean yes it's a tad different with the shield but it's still a gory high adrenaline shooter.

2016 and Eternal most certainly dealt with their own polarizing response, which is pretty hard to believe. Especially for 2016. Some people didn't like it, they hated the look, vibe, glory kills, etc. The response to Eternal was even louder as a lot of people really hated the platforming aspect of it all. Folks also didn't care for the Battle Mode either.

I think this one feels the most polarizing for a number of reasons. It launched on Game Pass, it's $70, it doesn't have more content outside of a campaign, etc. Could also just be silly brainrot as well. I mean, I've never seen so many doomers come out of the wood work talking about a DOOM game failing like I have with this one. It's almost like a lot of people want it to fail.

People hate change and the internet is completely polarized at this point. I will have to say, this game is Quake more than it is Doom. They should have went hard with Quake branding.

People do hate change, and the internet is certainly polarizing. I think the game was always going to have a "Quake aesthetic" as they were leaning away from the technological/futuristic look because of the period and all.

I know at one point people thought the next title was going to be a Quake game for awhile, makes me wonder if that was true and at some point they shifted to a DOOM game. Or if the intent on it being DOOM was always there and they rolled with it.

I'm sure the game will be successful and they'll be fine regardless. But this definitely makes me wonder if they're going to question taking a break from DOOM and going into Quake. Which honestly they may have already planned on doing.

 

[GHG]

Sure, obviously. If Doom even took $2 from every sub for just 1 month they probably covered most of the game's budget. You act like it's literally zero. I just don't get it.

Even $2 per user for one month for a single game is being hugely generous.

The library is well over 400 games at the moment.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

 

[Killer8]

Take a game that is considered a "good reboot" with decent enough sales. A good place to start building a successful IP from. Then take your time to release a sequel. Its okay, people will wait. People buy it and the playerbase is divided. A fraction of the playerbase is not coming back, more are wary. Then take your time to make the third game that is going to turn the ship around. It divides the playerbase again. Eternal fans are not that happy. Who is happy? A fraction of a fraction, when the whole point of the reboot was to start multiplying and growing the fanbase from a respectable but not stellar position in 2016. Not to start chopping away at the playerbase until only the "true fans" who stick with Doom no matter what are left.

It's not a zero-sum game though. Developers don't intentionally set out to create something divisive (well maybe Neil Druckmann does), they want as many people to be happy with the game as possible. If they didn't make changes after Eternal then they'd forever be stuck in a rut of catering only to a specific type of player. It's a catch 22 situation for them where they risk alienating fans further, but that is always going to be the risk after a misstep. There are plenty of examples of series righting the ship by compromising certain aspects of their design after a divisive entry like eg. Dark Souls 2 to Dark Souls 3.

I only mention Eternal already being divisive because there seems to be a narrative shift that it was beloved by all and now it's The Dark Ages that's ruined the series, when it simply isn't true. A lot of people hated Eternal already.

So Hi-Fi Rush gets 3 million players and their studio is shut down. Doom gets 3 million players and it's a success? Make it make sense. Especially considering Hi-Fi Rush 100% cost half, if not less, of what Doom did to make.

Hi-Fi Rush was a last gasp from a studio already on death's door. The Evil Within 2 had a 4:1 sales drop-off from the original game and Ghostwire tanked. It wasn't ever going to change the studio's fate which had likely already been decided after Microsoft acquired Bethesda and looked over the financials.

 

[Punished Miku]

Even $2 per user for one month for a single game is being hugely generous.

The library is well over 400 games at the moment.

All 400 games don't get paid every month. They do all kinds of varied funding methods. Some get a lump sum and then aren't getting anything for the next 11 months. Some apparently get paid based on metrics. $2 from literally 1 month when it's going to be on there for good is not at all being hugely generous.

 

[GHG]

All 400 games don't get paid every month. They do all kinds of varied funding methods. Some get a lump sum and then aren't getting anything for the next 11 months. Some apparently get paid based on metrics. $2 from literally 1 month when it's going to be on there for good is not at all being hugely generous.

Even if you're doing it only on a monthly basis for new games added to the service, it's at well over 20 games this month alone.

Again, $2 per user is massively generous and then you're not even leaving any money left over for future content acquisition and creation.

 

[xrnzaaas]

You missed out on a lot of online discourse apparently. Doom 2016 and Doom Eternal were also very polarizing. Lots of people who loved 2016, hated Eternal and lots of people who loved Eternal hated 2016.

Eternal overall got much more negative reception than 2016. This shouldn't come as a surprise, because they were experimenting with the formula a lot more. 2016 obviously is also different from the OG games, but it's much easier to accept its gameplay loop (especially if you get past the glory kills).

 

[Gamer79]

The game looks slow and boring. I loved Doom 2016 and this game just looks like a red headed step child version,.

 

[MiguelItUp]

The game looks slow and boring. I loved Doom 2016 and this game just looks like a red headed step child version,.

 

[Punished Miku]

Even if you're doing it only on a monthly basis for new games added to the service, it's at well over 20 games this month alone.

Again, $2 per user is massively generous and then you're not even leaving any money left over for future content acquisition and creation.

It's not generous at all. It's really underselling it. We know from their internal documents they were quoting stuff like Suicide Squad at $200 million. I'm literally just making up a super low ball number of $60 million just to prove the point that GP revenue obviously helps. You act like it's literally $0. You're just not making a valid argument here. Of course Doom gets at least $60 million from GP. Indie games can be added to the sub for a lot less. Big AAA games are usually only a few a year for the service.

 

[Gamer79]

I don't give a shit about Skill level. It just doesn't look fun. Especially when you see a guy shield ramming over and over and over again. Even the Gore has been turned way down. Bottom line it doesn't look fun

 

[Roufianos]

I finished them though found the 1st two a bit of a slog. I think I've realised FPS just ain't my groove, doubt I'll check this one out.

 

[Wildebeest]

It's not a zero-sum game though. Developers don't intentionally set out to create something divisive (well maybe Neil Druckmann does), they want as many people to be happy with the game as possible. If they didn't make changes after Eternal then they'd forever be stuck in a rut of catering only to a specific type of player. It's a catch 22 situation for them where they risk alienating fans further, but that is always going to be the risk after a misstep. There are plenty of examples of series righting the ship by compromising certain aspects of their design after a divisive entry like eg. Dark Souls 2 to Dark Souls 3.

The Dark Souls games are all fairly similar but the fast paced and more linear Dark Souls 3 has its own problems, especially for people who liked the online features of DS2. DS3 is the least Dark Souls like game of the three and some people dismiss it as more like Diet Bloodborne than Souls. They were probably right to kill the Souls series there.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

Is this another "Soft" release from Micro-Soft?

-Voice Over:
yes, it was.

MS's acquisitions and Game Pass have been such failures, that they make Sony's GaaS initiative look like a big success.

 

[Zacfoldor]

Let's be real. It underperformed or we had way too high expectations for the franchise. Every metric we've seen has been shockingly low, comparable to other AAA flops. I'm not sure why but the zeitgeist rejected this game. It's kinda crazy. I think 2025 isn't the year to put out a game that isn't epic.

 

[GHG]

It's not generous at all. It's really underselling it. We know from their internal documents they were quoting stuff like Suicide Squad at $200 million. I'm literally just making up a super low ball number of $60 million just to prove the point that GP revenue obviously helps. You act like it's literally $0. You're just not making a valid argument here. Of course Doom gets at least $60 million from GP. Indie games can be added to the sub for a lot less. Big AAA games are usually only a few a year for the service.

Didn't say it's $0, but the picture is very different when each subscription needs to contribute to the total cost for the entire catalogue, and not just towards the budget for a single game in a particular month.

You're just pulling numbers out of your arse and hoping for the best. If it were so simple then why couldn't they have just pulled $2 from each user to keep Tango afloat?

 

[Space Runaway]

It's a fun game but fun isn't enough for big budget titles that cost $70 -$80 with no replay and Gamepass availability.

 

[ResilientBanana]

People do hate change, and the internet is certainly polarizing. I think the game was always going to have a "Quake aesthetic" as they were leaning away from the technological/futuristic look because of the period and all.

I know at one point people thought the next title was going to be a Quake game for awhile, makes me wonder if that was true and at some point they shifted to a DOOM game. Or if the intent on it being DOOM was always there and they rolled with it.

I'm sure the game will be successful and they'll be fine regardless. But this definitely makes me wonder if they're going to question taking a break from DOOM and going into Quake. Which honestly they may have already planned on doing.

You are correct, rumors were circulating that it was going to be a Quake game, even some of the developers were using Quake for inspiration. With the inclusion of the Cosmic Realm, and it's enemies, Grenade Launcher Nailgun, Super Nailgun, setting, etc. One would think they were in the process of making Quake. I have to think that Doom was a bigger name, which is why they stuck with it.

 

[Punished Miku]

Didn't say it's $0, but the picture is very different when each subscription needs to contribute to the total cost for the entire catalogue, and not just towards the budget for a single game in a particular month.

You're just pulling numbers out of your arse and hoping for the best. If it were so simple then why couldn't they have just pulled $2 from each user to keep Tango afloat?

No one knows. If I had to guess, they didn't want to keep 1 small studio in Japan when they barely have a presence there, and they bailed when Mikami bailed. I think it's the dumbest thing MS has ever done, but it's not closed because GP can't pay for their AA games. Or maybe the user metrics on GP were just that bad, and not the actual budget. And they also tried selling it on PS as well. Nakamura also left Tango as well, so I suspect they had issues MS just didn't want to fund. Again, literally the dumbest call they've ever made.

 

[Arsic]

This clip slicing shit to drive this narrative is such horseshit. Anyone who has played it, listened to the devs, can in fact tell you the idea for the game was being a wall aka stand and fight.

The clip shows you shield diving in and killing 20 guys at once, and that's accurate. Then what's left in the room? One or two larger enemies you shoot, parry, melee shoot, repeat until dead. It is not eternal zip around gameplay.

Fights are just back and forth parrying, slowing the pacing down , but it's still fun. You can turn up game speed in settings too for the slayer to move quicker and the enemies. Also helps.

The biggest issue is the game for the first 11 missions barely has enough enemies on screen to fight. It's the illusion of it. You see 8 guys with a shield in front of you but the truth is you one shot them with one shield throw that ricochets to kill them all immediately. Medium enemies die to 1-2 shots of super shotgun. Then the "boss enemies" take a bit longer of back and forth.

Doom 2016 for example is all enemies want to shit on you, do not stand still for the most part to give you the chance, rush your shit down; and on nightmare will 1-2 shot you.

Dark Ages is style over substance and I love the game.

 

[Killjoy-NL]

Let's be real. It underperformed or we had way too high expectations for the franchise. Every metric we've seen has been shockingly low, comparable to other AAA flops. I'm not sure why but the zeitgeist rejected this game. It's kinda crazy. I think 2025 isn't the year to put out a game that isn't epic.

This place is one big echo-chamber, most of the time completely out of touch with reality.
We see it over and over and people keep scratching their heads.

Gaf is basically like TheQuartering of the gaming community.

 

[Brakum]

I see a lot of people talking about how divisive The Dark Ages is going to be despite Eternal already being the highly divisive

Bullshit. Loud tiny minority. A highly divisive game does not 90+ user ratings everywhere.

 

[LQX]

I think a lot of people are now wary of gimmicks where you have to work just to shoot shit. People just want to shoot and kill shit. Doom is the wheel. Stop trying to reinvent it.

 

[Team Andromeda]

The sub players aren't paying the bills though. That's a problem.

Yes, because GamePass is free for all *RollsEyes*

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

I need to say what everyone else is thinking

Should have let us play as the bossbabe

 

[Arsic]

Bullshit. Loud tiny minority. A divisive game does not 90+ user ratings everywhere.

And SOLD, not had players, but SOLD 3 million units in its first month.

id shit the bed with this one. Microsoft helped them shit the bed. This is a giant fuck up by both, and will require major changes at id before they launch a new title.

If they go Doom again they have to play it safe. So maybe doom 2016 remaster with updated visuals etc at $50 with more content thrown in. Or if they let doom rest for a while then go to Quake.

Here's the two truths they need to follow for their next title in order to make a good game:
-Get Mick Gordon back.
-Do not let Hugo direct it. Let Marty or someone else do so. Hugo seems like a yea man and probably needed another 6-9 months to work on this game, and just went with shoving it out thinking the doom name sells on its own.

two other truths : make games for fps/doom fans, not souls fans. Do not rush your game. Pack it with content.

 

[MiguelItUp]

You are correct, rumors were circulating that it was going to be a Quake game, even some of the developers were using Quake for inspiration. With the inclusion of the Cosmic Realm, and it's enemies, Grenade Launcher Nailgun, Super Nailgun, setting, etc. One would think they were in the process of making Quake. I have to think that Doom was a bigger name, which is why they stuck with it.

Yup, that's exactly what I was thinking.

This clip slicing shit to drive this narrative is such horseshit. Anyone who has played it, listened to the devs, can in fact tell you the idea for the game was being a wall aka stand and fight.

The clip shows you shield diving in and killing 20 guys at once, and that's accurate. Then what's left in the room? One or two larger enemies you shoot, parry, melee shoot, repeat until dead. It is not eternal zip around gameplay.

Fights are just back and forth parrying, slowing the pacing down , but it's still fun. You can turn up game speed in settings too for the slayer to move quicker and the enemies. Also helps.

The biggest issue is the game for the first 11 missions barely has enough enemies on screen to fight. It's the illusion of it. You see 8 guys with a shield in front of you but the truth is you one shot them with one shield throw that ricochets to kill them all immediately. Medium enemies die to 1-2 shots of super shotgun. Then the "boss enemies" take a bit longer of back and forth.

Doom 2016 for example is all enemies want to shit on you, do not stand still for the most part to give you the chance, rush your shit down; and on nightmare will 1-2 shot you.

Dark Ages is style over substance and I love the game.

I just looked and grabbed the first video I saw that felt fitting. They were just implying the game isn't slow and can still be pretty fast, which is pretty damn true. I've seen people say it was slow AF but they played on Normal. Playing on P/UN definitely makes for a much different experience, lol.

And SOLD, not had players, but SOLD 3 million units in its first month.

id shit the bed with this one. Microsoft helped them shit the bed. This is a giant fuck up by both, and will require major changes at id before they launch a new title.

If they go Doom again they have to play it safe. So maybe doom 2016 remaster with updated visuals etc at $50 with more content thrown in. Or if they let doom rest for a while then go to Quake.

Here's the two truths they need to follow for their next title in order to make a good game:
-Get Mick Gordon back.
-Do not let Hugo direct it. Let Marty or someone else do so. Hugo seems like a yea man and probably needed another 6-9 months to work on this game, and just went with shoving it out thinking the doom name sells on its own.

two other truths : make games for fps/doom fans, not souls fans. Do not rush your game. Pack it with content.

I'd argue that they really need to focus on the game, its mechanics, design, etc. over getting Mick Gordon back. Music that makes people happier isn't going to make the game better.

It seems a good number of people are protesting against The Dark Ages because of how Gordon was treated. But there are many more that don't know or care.

I enjoyed the game for what it was, but man did it need some more content/replay value IMO.

The entire project just felt rushed to me when comparing it to 2016 and Eternal. I mean, even in the skin department, the skins in Eternal were much more detailed and unique. In The Dark Ages they're just palette swaps.

 

[ThisIsMyDog]

Got bored by it, loved Eternal but this one.. just not for me.

 

[SILKYSMOOTH30FPS]

I was told by MS that sales didn't matter. If they cut ID's next project budget because it didn't sell, i sweat to fuck

 

[Durin]

This place is one big echo-chamber, most of the time completely out of touch with reality.
We see it over and over and people keep scratching their heads.

Gaf is basically like TheQuartering of the gaming community.

Eh, the game had a bunch of hype at every event it was shown. The fact that it went from the last event where people were excited to it just kind of fizzling out was pretty abnormal.

Literally the audience that hates the Quartering and everyone in here thought this game would do better as well.

 

[DragoonKain]

I thought the game was great. Would be a shame if true. Also wonder how much of it if true would be people saving money for Switch 2 coming out next month.

 

[Lethal01]

Who have you seen saying 'oh well if Only I could Parry in this fps'

Like never

I was literally thinking this yesteraday while playing marvel rivals

 

[j0hnnix]

God damn.. I loved it, I dont get it.. Its the Game Pass curse. Then again at 70 bucks, and I played it on Game Pass.. Not much re-playability hard pill to swallow with other things people would invest their money into.

 

[Topher]

This place is one big echo-chamber, most of the time completely out of touch with reality.
We see it over and over and people keep scratching their heads.

Gaf is basically like TheQuartering of the gaming community.

 

[Kataploom]

GP isn't even available on Playstation so it's literally impossible that this is the reason. Ever notice how all the people that claim PS5 exclusives are fine for 3rd parties are the same people claiming GP is killing sales? It literally can't. It would have the whole PS5 userbase that an exclusive would, plus PC, plus Xbox, plus GP. GP can't kill a single sale on PS5 launching on day 1. Just literally not what is happening here.

No, it's a valid reason and I said it in that post you replied, people already spent the money elsewhere or are saving it for Switch 2, therefore they rely on Game Pass, as PS5 doesn't have Game Pass those people just have no choice

 

[Killjoy-NL]

Eh, the game had a bunch of hype at every event it was shown. The fact that it went from the last event where people were excited to it just kind of fizzling out was pretty abnormal.

Literally the audience that hates the Quartering and everyone in here thought this game would do better as well.

Wasn't even talking about Doom specifically.

 

[Pakoe]

I got bored after chapter 5 or so. The game is so slow and I dislike the whole blocking and parrying.
It's a good thing that they're experimenting and not just pumping out sequels but this one ain't for me.
The big green blobs are annoying. I tried upping the game speed, but that makes it even worse.

 

[havoc00]

You missed out on a lot of online discourse apparently. Doom 2016 and Doom Eternal were also very polarizing. Lots of people who loved 2016, hated Eternal and lots of people who loved Eternal hated 2016.

I know a lot of people didn't like the platforming in Eternal but they still agreed it was a good game, maybe a step down from 2016. With this its more people saying its just shit, than I prefer Eternal and 2016 to it.