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[EDMIX]

Thats 14 million that could have switched to pc. Worth it.

Agreed, I don't even fucking understand the point of this thread lol

Like, sold 14 million, would they want 14 million more PS5 sales? lol I mean.....where the fuck would it make sense to say no? What on Earth would the argument to be, that it sold 14 million and we now hate money lol

 

[PeteBull]

Agreed, I don't even fucking understand the point of this thread lol

Like, sold 14 million, would they want 14 million more PS5 sales? lol I mean.....where the fuck would it make sense to say no? What on Earth would the argument to be, that it sold 14 million and we now hate money lol

Its not just any 14milions of players, its most likely most enthusiast/techsavy ppl who stayed in sony ecosystem which means well beyond avg number of yearly games bought, aka not fifa/madden/cod bros but more like us gaffers who buy 10 or even more games yearly

 

[nial]

So PS4 Pro 14.3 million in about 4 years. Approx 3.6 million per year

Xbox Series X 12.5 million in 3 years (~25 million Series consoles at 50% ratio for Series X)
Approx 4.2 million per year

PS4 Pro not far off a main console isn't bad

It was not about 4 years, just 3 years (and 2 months).

 

[playsaves3]

There 100% won't be quantum computing or anything like graphene in PS6, just way too soon. However I am definitely expecting a chiplet-based APU design, for at least the GPU if not also the CPU.

Why is quantum computing too soon this wouldn't be till 2028 or possibly 29

 

[T_T]

As for Zen2 on PS5 Pro: Sony need to get their shit together regarding Backward Compatibility

Fheaks say it'll be Zen 2 again but clocked a bit higher, same thing that happened with the PS4 -> Pro evolution.

Yeah I'm aware, which is super disappointing. The reason given is BC with PS5 but that is SO problematic.
What will happen with PS6?
Will it not be BC with PS5 and PS4 if it wants to use Zen 6 or whatever?
Will it still have to use Zen2 in order to achieve it?
It will be 4 years since the PS5 launch when the Pro releases; why doesn't Sony have a rudimentary BC software layer where it can abstract this stuff away and use CPUs from the same core microarchitecture??
Does it mean that PS6 will have a more modern CPU but expect glitch galore on BC games?

The other thing is that it is not necessarily cheap to have Zen2 on PS5 Pro. Yes, the core architecture is "smaller" than Zen4 (though they could theoretically use the dense Zen4C core and still get all the newer instructions introduced and IPC), but it still needs porting. Zen 2 was created for TSMC 7nm (and 6nm), not for 5nm (or 4nm) so it will need its IP to be redesigned again for the new nodes. AMD hasn't done that for any of their recent Zen2 SKU releases (yes they still release Zen2-based CPUs for entry-level computing); they are still being fabbed in the original node they were made for (6nm is an optimization of 7nm). So Sony will have to foot the bill of this porting of Zen2 to 4nm.

 

[I Love Rock 'n' Roll]

Sony sold more PS4 Pro than SEGA's Dreamcast and Nintendo's WiiU! Well done Sony!

 

[Daneel Elijah]

As for Zen2 on PS5 Pro: Sony need to get their shit together regarding Backward Compatibility

As I understand it the PS4 CPU was shit. It was so inadequate that the PS3 CPU was better in some aspects. It would be like comparing the Series S GPU with the One X. Only better because is was more modern. So a lot had to be done to use the GPU instead of the CPU when possible. And the PS5 had to be able to use all the tricks that devs used to gain performance on PS4 games. AMD said that their offer would work. But making sure of it took time. The PS4 Pro had to be compatible with the PS4, and the easiest, cheapest,fastest way to do it was to take the same CPU. For the same reason they just put 2 PS4 GPUs for the PS4 Pro.
I trust Sony to do better this time. I think that they planned the PS5 Pro since the conception of the PS5. And that this time their partners also have plans for it. The PS6 is so far away that maybe they will switch to ARM, maybe they will put a Zen 2 for that like they did in the PS2 for the PS1 backward compatibility. Of course we need to wait for the official reveal to know more. The more hype they do for it, the more confident they will be IMHO. But I am personaly not asking for much. Better image quality, having their performance mode as good or better than base PS5 quality mode, some quality of life gains like more RAM for system use.

 

[T_T]

As I understand it the PS4 CPU was shit. It was so inadequate that the PS3 CPU was better in some aspects. It would be like comparing the Series S GPU with the One X. Only better because is was more modern. So a lot had to be done to use the GPU instead of the CPU when possible. And the PS5 had to be able to use all the tricks that devs used to gain performance on PS4 games. AMD said that their offer would work. But making sure of it took time. The PS4 Pro had to be compatible with the PS4, and the easiest, cheapest,fastest way to do it was to take the same CPU. For the same reason they just put 2 PS4 GPUs for the PS4 Pro.
I trust Sony to do better this time. I think that they planned the PS5 Pro since the conception of the PS5. And that this time their partners also have plans for it. The PS6 is so far away that maybe they will switch to ARM, maybe they will put a Zen 2 for that like they did in the PS2 for the PS1 backward compatibility. Of course we need to wait for the official reveal to know more. The more hype they do for it, the more confident they will be IMHO. But I am personaly not asking for much. Better image quality, having their performance mode as good or better than base PS5 quality mode, some quality of life gains like more RAM for system use.

Eh. Getting +1GHz will boost most things out the gate so there is some silver lining. Hopefully they know exactly what they are doing regarding the Pro tech, as in putting Zen2 has been tested and will not be a bottleneck to the GPU. But I'm skeptical at the moment. We already have some games that are CPU bound and if the Pro has more RT capabilities, that is further burden to the CPU.

 

[Daneel Elijah]

Eh. Getting +1GHz will boost most things out the gate so there is some silver lining. Hopefully they know exactly what they are doing regarding the Pro tech, as in putting Zen2 has been tested and will not be a bottleneck to the GPU. But I'm skeptical at the moment. We already have some games that are CPU bound and if the Pro has more RT capabilities, that is further burden to the CPU.

Devs always want more from the tech given to them. Not to be insulting, but GTA 5 on PS3 make you change characters on the fly, and a big map without loading times. If you compare Starfield to that, they should be better in every way, and the game seems lacking in comparison. Look at Gotham Knight, Redfall vs exclusives like Spiderman 2 or hopefully Hellblade 2. 60 FPS with RT on base machines. The Pro will be compared to that. And I think that unless Sony really don't give a fuck they will please their partners with a easy to use console, and a good CPU will be part of that. Will the upgrade be lacking? Probably. But will it be problematic? I don't think so. But there has been better posters that talked about it. I just read their posts and found their opinions logical.

 

[GHG]

I never said otherwise.


Edit:

As far as I was aware we were on about whether it makes sense for Sony to continue with the pro strategy. I just commented that i didn't think so if pro buyers are existing customers and make up around just 12% of your (mostly existing) user base.

Obviously it works for Sony or they wouldn't be doing it. I love to see their logic behind it though. Look at the Switch for a case against a pro version.

Nothing about my own personal buying preferences. Like I said ill probably buy one even though it'll perform worse than what's in the house already.

The software is what keeps people in your ecosystem. Its why I'm still there despite owning a PC.

When you're talking about 12% of ~100 million customers that's a lot of people. It makes zero sense to think about product lines in percentage terms when you're dealing with numbers of that magnitude. To put it into perspective we are talking about 5.5 billion dollars in revenue from the pro console sales alone.

This isn't a complicated proposition, it's for people who want the best possible experience a playstation console can offer. It's also for enthusiasts who lean into the premium end of the market.

I already have a top of the line PC, there is no GPU upgrade available for me. When I play exclusives (or 3rd party games that aren't available on PC like GTA 6 for example) on console I want the best possible experience that's available at the time, which means higher resolutions, framerates and graphics settings.

If there is no method for me to play GTA 6 at launch at what I deem to be good enough settings then I will wait out a PC launch. Even if only 10% of current and potential PS5 owners think like that then that's a lot of potential revenue slippage for them as a business and it makes sense for them to offer products that mitigate that (where possible). A pro console isn't some huge undertaking for them either, it's an extension to an already existing product line.

As a final note, this isn't binary (as in, either you upgrade your PC or you get a Pro or some other alternative) for a lot of buyers who swim in this pool. Some of us want it all and can have it all. If a company makes a gaming product that I think is worth my time and money then I'll buy it.

 

[jroc74]

So PS4 Pro 14.3 million in about 4 years. Approx 3.6 million per year

Xbox Series X 12.5 million in 3 years (~25 million Series consoles at 50% ratio for Series X)
Approx 4.2 million per year

PS4 Pro not far off a main console isn't bad

Damn, when you put it that way....

No one should be questioning it after this. Or do we start questioning the XSX...

 

[TheRedRiders]

Clearly it sold well enough that Sony now are developing a PS5 Pro, but even that aside, the market has now changed so much since the PS4 Pro launched. Gamers want the best experience when they play their games, more and more people are coming to learn of and appreciate higher resolutions, higher frame rates and especially new technologies like ray-tracing.

The PS5 Pro will be a great offer for us console gamers who want the best experience possible, especially on Playstation first party games and will very likely stave off many from migrating to PC depending on the performance per dollar.

I think I'll share this Jim Ryan quote about the PS4 Pro, I think it's more relevent than ever.

"Sometimes I think we can be guilty of ascribing too much rationality to gamers," Ryan explained. "People just want the best. Maybe they just want to future proof? I think we see the same thing from Apple customers too — there are people that want the best that you can buy."

 

[AncientOrigin]

Pro consoles make Sony lots of money they are dirt cheap to make sell for a high price.

 

[mckmas8808]

I get what your saying but an upgrading customer from PS5 to Pro is worth a hell of a lot less than a new customer to Sony's current eco system.

Like how many PS5 users would abandon it entirely mid gen if the Pro didn't exist? No many imo. Same with how many people are hanging on for a pro model that don't yet own a PS5? Again not many imo.

12% ish of the user base were PS4 Pro's. Unless MS are doing something similar, I don' see why they are bothering.

Because you aren't paying attention. And it's 13.5%. Why you'd be anti-revenue is weird. Sony is a hardware company. They like to sell hardware. Hence why they made PSVR2 AND PS Portal.

 

[mckmas8808]

People also need to remember that these numbers aren't the final numbers. The PlayStation 4 went on to sell an additional 14 million total consoles after these numbers right here.

 

[clarky]

Because you aren't paying attention. And it's 13.5%. Why you'd be anti-revenue is weird. Sony is a hardware company. They like to sell hardware. Hence why they made PSVR2 AND PS Portal.

Try reading the entire thread. Pay attention.

 

[sachos]

Imagine the PS5 Pro really is that much better at raytracing, good enough for a game port to have much higher quality RTGI vs regular raster for the competition. Those DF comparissons will be nuts, i think that will be enough to marketing for the thing lol.

 

[mckmas8808]

Try reading the entire thread. Pay attention.

Oh, my attention is on a 100! You seem to be the one that's lost. Let me help you.

- Hardware company likes to make hardware
- Hardware they sell makes a profit and sells great
- New "Pro" version of hardware is in demand by literally millions of people
- Hardware company makes "Pro" version of said hardware and a higher price than the regular version.
- "Pro" version retains the consumers who bought the first default version for a few years.
- Hardware company makes a next-gen product and the first adopters of the "pro" version purchases upgrade to that product.
- ?????
- Profit!!!!


How is it hard to understand? Literally everyone wins and no one loses with Sony makes a pro model of their PlayStation console.

 

[clarky]

Oh, my attention is on a 100! You seem to be the one that's lost. Let me help you.

- Hardware company likes to make hardware
- Hardware they sell makes a profit and sells great
- New "Pro" version of hardware is in demand by literally millions of people
- Hardware company makes "Pro" version of said hardware and a higher price than the regular version.
- "Pro" version retains the consumers who bought the first default version for a few years.
- Hardware company makes a next-gen product and the first adopters of the "pro" version purchases upgrade to that product.
- ?????
- Profit!!!!


How is it hard to understand? Literally everyone wins and no one loses with Sony makes a pro model of their PlayStation console.

Looks like we have a difference of opinion, no need to be a condescending prick.

 

[Rocco Schiavone]

Those DF comparissons will be nuts, i think that will be enough to marketing for the thing lol.

Not really. Bugaga will shit on the Pro. Camparing It with a 4090 and other bullshit.

 

[mckmas8808]

Looks like we have a difference of opinion, no need to be a condescending prick.

How was it condescending? You were the one asking me to read a thread that I've already read.