Support NeoGAF

[Panajev2001a]

What about the CPU? It is the same shitty zen 2?

Likely Zen 2 with a decent frequency boost, far from being a shitty CPU. Whether it has any tweaks compared to PS5’s Zen 2 cores it remains to be seen, but I would not expect any magic there.

This is a Pro version of PS5, a console meant to rebalance the HW a bit and sort the major deficiencies developers found in the real world in a way that requires the least amount of effort from devs to take advantage of as possible. So ML and ML/AI based upscaling, much improved RT performance (faster, more capable, more comprehensive, and more flexible HW RT acceleration), more CUs and higher memory bandwidth to support it. There are other improvements but those are the major areas where they actually did bigger architectural changes (custom RDNA2 to mix of RDNA4 and RSNA3).

 

[Senua]

Good to see gaf is still obsessed with tflops lol

What about the CPU? It is the same shitty zen 2?

Most likely. It's not for me but new console hardware is always exciting. I'm interested to see how PSSR compares to DLSS 2, even from that shitty cropped MLID picture it looks a nice improvement over FSR2

 

[Wolfpact1983]

Throw all the RT at me bruh - ps5 pro Bro vs RT hoe hoes

 

[LiquidMetal14]

I woke up and had coffee

This thing is going to be pretty good. But the best part is

 

[Bloobs]

Unless the console is better looking than the OG PS5 I dont care. Fuck RT and 8K lol. The support is and will be minimal.

 

[daninthemix]

As a PC fanboy, I'm crapping myself.

 

[T-0800]

I woke up and had coffee

This thing is going to be pretty good. But the best part is

 

[Caio]

Ok so it is 17 TF (33.5 / 2) console.

No.

• 33.5 Teraflops
• AI Accelerator, supporting 300 TOPS of 8 bit computation / 67 TFLOPS of 16-bit floating point. So, 67/2 = 33,5 TF.

 

[winjer]

No.

• 33.5 Teraflops
• AI Accelerator, supporting 300 TOPS of 8 bit computation / 67 TFLOPS of 16-bit floating point. So, 67/2 = 33,5 TF.

Not really. Those 33.5 TFLOPS are only accountable with the Dual Wave32 Instructions.
But if a game does not use them, which is all of them, then it's basically a 17 TFLOP machine.
Unless a dev manages to properly optimize for this, of if AMD and Sony manage to create a compiler to optimize shader code, a lot of games will perform as 17TFLOP.

 

[Urban]

So that’s why most of the games have an uncapped fps mode. The pro will brute force them to 60.
Yeah I’m waiting with FF7R and DDG for this one

 

[Caio]

Not really. Those 33.5 TFLOPS are only accountable with the Dual Wave32 Instructions.
But if a game does not use them, which is all of them, then it's basically a 17 TFLOP machine.
Unless a dev manages to properly optimize for this, of if AMD and Sony manage to create a compiler to optimize shader code, a lot of games will perform as 17TFLOP.

But it's not a 17 TF machine. Easy as that.

 

[winjer]

But it's not a 17 TF machine. Easy as that.

If games can't use VDOP, then it's a 17 TFLOP machine.
You are setting yourself for disappointment if you expect the Pro to perform as a 33 TFLOP machine.

And even in games that are optimized for VODP, not all instructions can use it. So even at the best case, it will never perform like a 33 TFLOP machine.
VODP for example, can't use FMA instructions.
There are also issues with data dependencies. Only independent instructions can be used by VODP at the same time.
And even the amount of available registers can impact VOPD.

 

[Bernardougf]

eh i disagree, what you are saying above is exactly why i want sony to focus on 60fps instead of 30fps.

People are too fixated with visuals and go for subpar 30fps.
Console makers should adjust the standard from this gen onwards.

Exactly!
60 fps minimum go from there.

 

[Senua]

Exactly!
60 fps minimum go from there.

60fps minimum is never going to happen on console though

 

[Loxus]

Likely Zen 2 with a decent frequency boost, far from being a shitty CPU. Whether it has any tweaks compared to PS5’s Zen 2 cores it remains to be seen, but I would not expect any magic there.

This is a Pro version of PS5, a console meant to rebalance the HW a bit and sort the major deficiencies developers found in the real world in a way that requires the least amount of effort from devs to take advantage of as possible. So ML and ML/AI based upscaling, much improved RT performance (faster, more capable, more comprehensive, and more flexible HW RT acceleration), more CUs and higher memory bandwidth to support it. There are other improvements but those are the major areas where they actually did bigger architectural changes (custom RDNA2 to mix of RDNA4 and RSNA3).

Was Zen2 confirmed?
Zen2 was rumored for awhile now.
I don't see it mentioned here.

 

[Gaiff]

Not a word on the CPU.

Really looking forward to what PSSR can do.

 

[Markio128]

I’m in. The idea of an improved GT7 VR is enough for me to empty my wallet. I’d imagine Sophy will get a boost as well, and hopefully be added to the game in a more meaningful way.

 

[Bojji]

If games can't use VDOP, then it's a 17 TFLOP machine.
You are setting yourself for disappointment if you expect the Pro to perform as a 33 TFLOP machine.

I think most of the people here are setting themselves to that. There are other things to consider aside very mediocre raw power jump (compared to PS4 pro that was considered as weak jump but it was much more than this):

- price, ps4p launched for the same price as PS4 but slim model got lower price before that
So far PS5 got only more expensive. This thing wil be more expensive than PS5, but how much?
- developers actually giving a fuck, people talk about this ai stuff making this console much more powerful than pure teraflops would suggest but based on PS4 pro I don't think many developers will actually care. You can expect that 45% frame rate increase to be the norm but other things not really, third party devs are known for not caring about stuff like that (especially Japanese devs) and this console will represent just few % of console market (after months and years of selling).

 

[IDWhite]

If games can't use VDOP, then it's a 17 TFLOP machine.
You are setting yourself for disappointment if you expect the Pro to perform as a 33 TFLOP machine.

We don't know the RDNA 4 details to say that 33 Tflops are only because of VDOP. And even if it is the case you can't say it is a 17Tflop machine because that's not the real theoretical capabilities.

 

[Panajev2001a]

If games can't use VDOP, then it's a 17 TFLOP machine.
You are setting yourself for disappointment if you expect the Pro to perform as a 33 TFLOP machine.

True, but it is closed console with custom shader compilers of a yet to be seen in the wild new RDNA architecture.

And even in games that are optimized for VODP, not all instructions can use it. So even at the best case, it will never perform like a 33 TFLOP machine.
VODP for example, can't use FMA instructions.
There are also issues with data dependencies. Only independent instructions can be used by VODP at the same time.
And even the amount of available registers can impact VOPD.

Correct, but that is RDNA3. RDNA4 could very well attack deficiencies that make dual issue less efficient.

 

[Gaiff]

I think most of the people here are setting themselves to that. There are other things to consider aside very mediocre raw power jump (compared to PS4 pro that was considered as weak jump but it was much more than this):

- price, ps4p launched for the same price as PS4 but slim model got lower price before that
So far PS5 got only more expensive. This thing wil be more expensive than PS5, but how much?
- developers actually giving a fuck, people talk about this ai stuff making this console much more powerful than pure teraflops would suggest but based on PS4 pro I don't think many developers will actually care. You can expect that 45% frame rate increase to be the norm but other things not really, third party devs are known for not caring about stuff like that (especially Japanese devs) and this console will represent just few % of console market (after months and years of selling).

Sony got hit with the realities of economics like everyone else. The PS5 was an incredible deal for $500 and still is but 3 1/2 years later and still no price drops. On the contrary, over here, it went up. Prices weren’t so out of control when the PS5 hit the scene.

For comparison’s sake, the PS2 after 4 years had gone from 300 to 150. Imagine if the PS5 was only $150-250 by next year.

Hardware is getting prohibitively expensive. They’re really looking into software solutions to add value to their products. It worked amazingly for NVIDIA. Yes, they’re greedy cunts but DLSS, Frame Generation, Reflex and all the other features add a lot of value to their products.

 

[winjer]

We don't know the RDNA 4 details to say that 33 Tflops are only because of VDOP. And even if it is the case you can't say it is a 17Tflop machine because that's not the real theoretical capabilities.

AMD has already published the changes to it's LLVM in RDNA4.
There are improvements to how instructions are dealt with, some that will probably improve how VDOP works.
But the issue remains that not all instructions can use VODP. And dependencies.

Examining AMD’s RDNA 4 Changes in LLVM

As 2024 continues on, because time never stops, AMD has been working on their upcoming RDNA 4 architecture.

chipsandcheese.com

Besides, is the PS5 Pro using a full RDNA4 chip? Or is it RDNA3.5 with somethings from RDNA4. Similar to how the PS5 is a mix of RDNA1 and RDNA2.

 

[Salz01]

I just want to know if it will take 30fps games and allow them to run at 60 fps with out them being patched if they don’t have a unlocked frame rate.

 

[Dundar]

Can someone do DBZ power levels of this thing to my understanding?

 

[winjer]

Can someone do DBZ power levels of this thing to my understanding?

 

[Gaiff]

Can someone do DBZ power levels of this thing to my understanding?

Series X: Buu Saga Super Saiyan Goku

PS5: Buu Saga Super Saiyan Vegeta

PS5 Pro: Buu Saga Super Saiyan 2 Goku

Series S: Krillin

Switch: Yamcha

 

[MAX PAYMENT]

I mean, just being able to play FF16 at a non blur-o-vision res at 60fps, Alan Wake 2 at a proper res without the fooked up FSR shit-a-thon of an image quality, Robocop also at a proper res and framerate, Helldivers 2 at above 1080p and Dragon's dogma 2 at a non 31 cinematic® fps could be considered a win brother.

Then, you also have Death stranding 2 and GTA6 coming so...

Cheers

Just get a pc

 

[Rocco Schiavone]

PS4 pro was much bigger update.

 

[jm89]

Switch: Bulma

Ftfy

 

[Dokku]

Anyone who thinks they're getting a 33 teraflop console is painfully deluded.

It's a 16.5 to 17 teraflop machine that'll likely perform a fair bit better than that number suggests given the architectural improvements and AI upscaling.

 

[Roufianos]

Fuck ray tracing, 60 FPS without blurry graphics, looking at you FF7 and Hogwarts, is all I need.

 

[SlimySnake]

On one hand, well, we discussed that brute force HW progress based on traditional Moore’s Law progress (manufacturing process improvements leading to denser chips with more and more logic) was slowing down more and more with each console generation . Especially in a Pro design.

On the other hand I think we are undervaluing what actually changed architecturally in a console environment and we do not have some details like final clock speed for CPU and GPU.

I am simply looking at Sonys own performance claims. We don’t need to know clock speeds, tflops, rdna 4 ipc gains because we know the actual performance gains from Sony themselves. 45%. This is similar to how AMD and Nvidia market their GpUs. They tell you in performance terms how much more powerful it is. The rest of the specs don’t matter when you know the final results.

 

[Senua]

Just get a pc

 

[Gaiff]

I am simply looking at Sonys own performance claims. We don’t need to know clock speeds, tflops, rdna 4 ipc gains because we know the actual performance gains from Sony themselves. 45%. This is similar to how AMD and Nvidia market their GpUs. They tell you in performance terms how much more powerful it is. The rest of the specs don’t matter when you know the final results.

This. They give performance metrics and everyone is still hung up on TFLOPs. It clearly states, "45% faster" so it could be 10 billion TFLOPs and it wouldn’t matter.

 

[shamoomoo]

If 45% is true it probably trades blows with the 7700 XT, a lot slower than the 4070 Super.

No,the Pro show be slightly faster with regards to fill fate. The PS5 Pro show be 528 giga texels and have a texture fill rate of 211 giga pixels vs 515 and 179 for the RTX 4070.

 

[BlackTron]

I just want to know if it will take 30fps games and allow them to run at 60 fps with out them being patched if they don’t have a unlocked frame rate.

Doesn't seem possible, if the framerate is locked at 30FPS in software, no hardware can make it run with more frames no matter what you do. You will need a patch that just does what you do when you go into the settings on PC to change the FPS cap.

 

[Skifi28]

Just get a pc

*Pro

 

[IDWhite]

AMD has already published the changes to it's LLVM in RDNA4.
There are improvements to how instructions are dealt with, some that will probably improve how VDOP works.
But the issue remains that not all instructions can use VODP. And dependencies.

Examining AMD’s RDNA 4 Changes in LLVM

As 2024 continues on, because time never stops, AMD has been working on their upcoming RDNA 4 architecture.

chipsandcheese.com

Besides, is the PS5 Pro using a full RDNA4 chip? Or is it RDNA3.5 with somethings from RDNA4. Similar to how the PS5 is a mix of RDNA1 and RDNA2.

That's not enough to conclude RDNA 4 architecture changes, even less the Ps5 pro.

 

[Gaiff]

No,the Pro show be slightly faster with regards to fill fate. The PS5 Pro show be 528 giga texels and have a texture fill rate of 211 giga pixels vs 515 and 179 for the RTX 4070.

The 7700 XT is also faster than the 4070 in those metrics yet it almost never beats the 4070. Those are byproducts of higher clocks.

 

[SlimySnake]

Anyone who thinks they're getting a 33 teraflop console is painfully deluded.

It's a 16.5 to 17 teraflop machine that'll likely perform a fair bit better than that number suggests given the architectural improvements and AI upscaling.

I wouldn’t be too sure of that. Their own metrics suggest a 45% gain so it is performing like a 14.5-15 tflops ps5.

In RT games yes it will perform better than the 16.5 tflops number suggests. Probably more like a 23 tflops 6900xt. Or the 26 tflops 7900xt in games that are giving them 4x more performance.

 

[ChuckeRearmed]

If games can't use VDOP, then it's a 17 TFLOP machine.
You are setting yourself for disappointment if you expect the Pro to perform as a 33 TFLOP machine.

And even in games that are optimized for VODP, not all instructions can use it. So even at the best case, it will never perform like a 33 TFLOP machine.
VODP for example, can't use FMA instructions.
There are also issues with data dependencies. Only independent instructions can be used by VODP at the same time.
And even the amount of available registers can impact VOPD.

It is basically just a classic AMD knowing that it cannot compete with Nvidia right now, trying to use PR. Just like those CDN TFlops were not RDNA TFlops or something. Now it is another one, while Nvidia will just release some new card next year that will obliterate AMD and increase market share even more I remember those memes from i3-i7 era where Intel was getting better performance while AMD was trying to throw more cores just to sell the idea that more cores > better CPU. And AMD doing that right now with GPU.

 

[midnightAI]

No

That's impossible. It will never go above $500 because it wouldn't sell. Maybe next gen with PS6 Sony can charge $600 due to inflation but not now. Ps5 owners wouldn't upgrade to Pro and new potential buyers wouldn't pay more than $500

I don't think you understand the point or reasoning behind pro consoles?

The main console is still the PS5, that is the mainstream console. The pro is there for people who are willing to pay that little bit extra for higher settings in there games, it can quite easily sell for $600 (I actually think it will be $550ish for digital, maybe $600 bundled with drive) and Sony won't be too concerned about it's sales as they will have both consoles on the market at the same time at different price points with little to no effect on the game making side (time and cost). I think the standard PS5 will get a $50 price drop.

 

[bitbydeath]

Anyone who thinks they're getting a 33 teraflop console is painfully deluded.

It's a 16.5 to 17 teraflop machine that'll likely perform a fair bit better than that number suggests given the architectural improvements and AI upscaling.

PC’s require 40TF to reach 8K, this console reaches 8K with help from PSSR, seems like it is much closer to 33TF than you’re thinking, or there’s some super secret sauce if your stuck on it must be 17TF.

 

[Gaiff]

PC’s require 40TF to reach 8K, this console reaches 8K with help from PSSR, seems like it is much closer to 33TF than you’re thinking, or there’s some super secret sauce if your stuck on it must be 17TF.

That’s complete nonsense.

 

[Senua]

PC’s require 40TF to reach 8K, this console reaches 8K with help from PSSR, seems like it is much closer to 33TF than you’re thinking, or there’s some super secret sauce if your stuck on it must be 17TF.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

I woke up and had coffee

This thing is going to be pretty good. But the best part is

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

It is basically just a classic AMD knowing that it cannot compete with Nvidia right now, trying to use PR. Just like those CDN TFlops were not RDNA TFlops or something. Now it is another one, while Nvidia will just release some new card next year that will obliterate AMD and increase market share even more I remember those memes from i3-i7 era where Intel was getting better performance while AMD was trying to throw more cores just to sell the idea that more cores > better CPU. And AMD doing that right now with GPU.

Lol Nvidia did the same double tflop thing with Ampere

 

[SlimySnake]

This. They give performance metrics and everyone is still hung up on TFLOPs. It clearly states, "45% faster" so it could be 10 billion TFLOPs and it wouldn’t matter.

It’s funny. I saw Alex downplay the ray tracing benchmarks for the same reasons. He was like it’s only 4x in theory because he’s seen those 4x improvements not translate into 4x more performance in rdna 3 cards. And I’m like Sony is Listing actual performance improvements here you numb nut.

 

[SmokSmog]

63% more effective FP32 power after 4 years. PS4 Pro had 120% gain after 3 years? You can see the semiconductor industry stagnation, it's harder and harder to go denser with new nodes.

 

[AGNT4SD6]

If the Pro can’t give me me something comparable to NVIDIA’s Path Tracing then I’m not interested. Personally, 8K and true 4K/60 w/ RT is not that important to me. I’m fine with upscaled to 4K/30 w RT on my current PS5 and can wait for PS6. If Sony wants to work on something they can focus on getting VRR perfected on current PS5’s.